Hey, I bet if you worked in one of the top floors of a skyscraper in some city and had a good radio in your office, you would be able to receive clearly some stations that are far away that normally have poor to no reception on the ground. That would be interesting to try, especially on the very top of the building standing on the roof with a portable battery-operated radio.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Skyscraper FM Reception
- Thread starter KYradioJake
- Start date
KYradioJake said:
Tall skyscrapers often have transmitters for powerful FM stations broadcasting from towers on their roofs. Sometimes many of them. In that case, those stations would probably be all that your portable radio would get.
A favorite DX point was the fifteenth floor of Keene Hall at Eastern Kentucky University. The campus was in Richmond, Kentucky, 25 miles south of Lexington. On an average day you had 75 miles easy on a good signal but when the skips happened you knew about it. Best catch from the north was WRIF Detroit with a solid signal (5x5) on a JVC receiver. Best catch from the west on a Walkman was KHTR St. Louis. From the south on a Walkman the winner was Y-106 Atlanta (Gainesville) GA. Never caught anything far away from the east during my time at EKU.
Hey Rob...
I lived on the 23rd floor of the Pearce-Ford tower when it was brand new in the fall of 1971 at WKU:
facing south, all of the Nashville FMs were locals (about 65 miles)...Nashville TV was very good, too.
Normal catches included Huntsville on a regular basis...TV was usually better...Birmingham not
unusual...Montgomery occasionally. Lexington, TN channel 11 fairly normal catch. Best catch was
Monterrey, MX...
I lived on the 23rd floor of the Pearce-Ford tower when it was brand new in the fall of 1971 at WKU:
facing south, all of the Nashville FMs were locals (about 65 miles)...Nashville TV was very good, too.
Normal catches included Huntsville on a regular basis...TV was usually better...Birmingham not
unusual...Montgomery occasionally. Lexington, TN channel 11 fairly normal catch. Best catch was
Monterrey, MX...
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
Back in the early 70's, I tried for TV reception from my hometown on the top floor of a high rise dorm. It was 110 miles away - reception was too poor to be useful.
This is akin to the mountaintop DX thread we had earlier. Even at 8000 feet above the average terrain, reception didn't get spectacular - 200 miles at best.
This is akin to the mountaintop DX thread we had earlier. Even at 8000 feet above the average terrain, reception didn't get spectacular - 200 miles at best.
the biggest problem you will face has been mentioned earlier, the tall buildings are used for transmitters, even if they're not, you're going to get serious bleedover all over the dial and listening will be pretty much impossible on a non-digital radio. If you don't know exactly what station you are on....you'll end up hearing multiple stations simultaneously. You will have to be far enough away from any fm transmitter or strong local station for it to really be noticeable. It will be better than street level if your radio doesn't get overloaded.
All I'm talking about is...and you know what I'm talking about Rob...the not very tall "Big Blue" building in downtown Lexington. Since there are no AM, FM, or TV transmitters on top of the building or on any of the surrounding buildings; if I was standing on top of it, I could probably get many Louisville and Cincinnati stations like a local all the time from up there. (With a good radio with a digital tuner, of course) and stations from other places that you wouldn't be able to receive very well on the ground.
romer979fm said:
TV from the fifteenth floor had moments. From the north side you could see the tower lights of 27 and 36 most nights and KET was just ten miles away. Channel 18's tower beacon was barely visible since they were half the height. Needless to say they were no problem. On the west side of the EKU high rises Lexington was an easy catch but if you lived on the south or east side of any of the high rises you learned to overcome ghost from the reflective signal. I was sitting pretty on the north side until 56 went on the air, their tower was west of Richmond in Garrard County, say hello to ghost.
From my vantage point Cincinnati was a viewable snowy picture though I did build a high band Yagi out of a yard stick and wire to improve reception a bit but I digress. From the west you could catch a snowy but viewable picture from Louisville. Nothing special to the east or south. Skips from the north included Toledo and a band opening allowing me to watch most of the UHF's from Chicago.
KYradioJake said:
I worked in the Kincaid Towers through the eighties and only once made it to the top office floor, without a radio though. WVLK had a couple of UHF corner reflectors (one to 18 and the other to 27 and 36) prior to cable but the loss of the 300 feet of coax didn't yield anything beyond 18, 27 and 36 while 46 and 56 were ghost. Our marti set up was at the top of Kinky Towers while audio and control voltage (antenna switching and rotor controls) was sent to the third floor. We could talk to WAVG Louisville (also on 161.67) if we swung the yagi to the WNW. Unless we were doing a remote behind a hill or in a hole, we had full quieting 40 miles around Lexington.
FM DXing on top of any of the high rises in Lexington was always a challenge due to all of the intermod issues up and down the dial. It's more a challenge today since 106.3 mounted their antenna atop the big blue vertical ice cube tray and 88.1 is atop of one of the UK high rises (memory fades at the moment).
I've tried reception in a couple of tall hotels, namely the MGM in Vegas and the Westin in Seattle. In Seattle, I was facing Puget Sound and on the 32nd floor - it was a mess but several Vancouver FM's made it through pretty clear. In Vegas, the intermod pretty much shut down any good DX - I certainly don't remember any good FM catches. TV, on the other hand, was another matter. My little ancient RS portable snagged well over 20 channels, mostly on UHF. I was never able to watch long enough to ID anything outside a few Vegas locals.
C
chrisalcorn
Guest
I have stayed at a "medium rise" hotel in downtown Louisville and using a Sony walman with an analog tuner been able to listen to all the big ones from Lexington including some small ones like WLTO, WXZZ and WBTF. All of the smaller signals I mentioned are sorrounded by locals. WBTF was very listenable even though WSFR is right next to it. In my opinion, analog tuners work better for me for this type of experiment due to the ability to slide away from local adjacents.
I remember a few years ago when I went to the Kentucky Derby, I stayed in the Embassy Suites on the NE side of Louisville and my room window was facing either to the north or the northwest and I could get all of the big FMs from Lexington (like 92.9, 98.1, 94.5, 104.5, etc.) and also the medium ones like 102.5 and 107.9 for example. Most of them came in pretty well even in the center of the room away from the window, but some I had to go over to the window to pick up clearly. I was using my Sony Walkman (digital tuner).
The Lexington 100kw's are an easy catch on the east side of Louisville, even on ground level. The 50 dBu sneaks into Jefferson County for all of the C1's. East of J-town 92.9 beats up on 93.1.
From the 16th floor of the Holiday Inn, downtown Cleveland, the FMs from Canada come
blasting in from accross the lake. More than 100 miles away. Some on the very next channel
to the Cleveland stations.
blasting in from accross the lake. More than 100 miles away. Some on the very next channel
to the Cleveland stations.
From the roof of a 25 floor building in New Brunswick, NJ, I get Philadelphia stations like locals from 65 miles away, New York stations are very strong 25 miles away. A 50000 watt station from Delaware, 100 miles away, comes in consistently. I can see the Empire State Building from the roof. A 50000 watt station 20 miles away overloads my radio. 98.1 from Philly comes in well, despite a 98.3 from New Brunswick just a mile away. On the ground, only 98.3 overloads my radio, but on top, lots more stations overload my radio. A Class A 40 miles away comes in well, and it doesn't come in at all on the ground except during tropo. I can get my 10 watt high school station from 25 miles away on top of that building, and that station fades out on the ground after 3 miles and is gone at 7 miles.
There's a wireless router on a top floor, and I can get wireless internet half a mile away. A 1 watt station on top of this building would go very far.
When the tropo hits, I can get several stations on each frequency, all of them strong. However, e-skip is better heard on the ground because the skip comes from the sky and the local stations are weaker on the ground.
In a 11-floor parking garage, there is no reception on the 1st floor, not even the strongest station. On the 11th floor, the reception is impressive.
There's a wireless router on a top floor, and I can get wireless internet half a mile away. A 1 watt station on top of this building would go very far.
When the tropo hits, I can get several stations on each frequency, all of them strong. However, e-skip is better heard on the ground because the skip comes from the sky and the local stations are weaker on the ground.
In a 11-floor parking garage, there is no reception on the 1st floor, not even the strongest station. On the 11th floor, the reception is impressive.
Thats incredible. It's amazing how just a few hundred feet can make such a difference. It would be neat to live in a nice apartment on the top floor of a high rise and be able to listen to a station 100+ miles away on a normal basis.
E
eyg2181
Guest
yea it would...lol
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
KYradioJake said:
All of this sounds like the lack of attenuation due to steel in the building vs. attenuation (on the lower floors). 100 mile reception is commonplace - I have a station 100 miles away on my car radio preset, comes in perfectly even though it is first adjacent to a local. I have another station on my presets that is 140 miles away - reception is not as good but it is listenable. I also have a low power college station 60 miles away on the presets. Also first adjacent to a local.
What would REALLY be nifty is being high up in the air... with a car radio... best of both worlds!
Is there anyone on here in, say, NYC who has access to a 20+ story parking ramp? The biggest thing I've been able to find here in Youbetchaland is the Mall of America ramp, which is maybe 60 feet high. The best I've been able to do up there is bring WGLX-Wisconsin Rapids (160 or so airline miles?) up from the static into "weak but steady"... probably a 5-6 dB improvement.
I suppose I could scour downtown St. Paul for a 12- or 13-story ramp, but that's if I can justify spending $9 to go up there on a student budget! Minneapolis would present potentially bigger structures, but there are a few small transmitters in downtown proper, and I'm wondering if proximite to these would present an overload problem despite their low power. (The three in downtown proper are all on the IDS Center, about 800 feet AGL -- KFAI 90.3 on an STA for 30 watts, plus ten-watt translators on 90.7 and 102.5. There's also 1-kW KMOJ on 89.9, though this is two miles outside the downtown core and only about 100 feet off the ground). Anyone care to speculate?
Is there anyone on here in, say, NYC who has access to a 20+ story parking ramp? The biggest thing I've been able to find here in Youbetchaland is the Mall of America ramp, which is maybe 60 feet high. The best I've been able to do up there is bring WGLX-Wisconsin Rapids (160 or so airline miles?) up from the static into "weak but steady"... probably a 5-6 dB improvement.
I suppose I could scour downtown St. Paul for a 12- or 13-story ramp, but that's if I can justify spending $9 to go up there on a student budget! Minneapolis would present potentially bigger structures, but there are a few small transmitters in downtown proper, and I'm wondering if proximite to these would present an overload problem despite their low power. (The three in downtown proper are all on the IDS Center, about 800 feet AGL -- KFAI 90.3 on an STA for 30 watts, plus ten-watt translators on 90.7 and 102.5. There's also 1-kW KMOJ on 89.9, though this is two miles outside the downtown core and only about 100 feet off the ground). Anyone care to speculate?
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
Grrrradio said:
I just did it on Pike's Peak last summer - 8000 feet above the surrounding terrain. Nothing over 200 miles. A very good car radio, too.
Many years ago, my friend talked to the (then) Chief Engineer of channel 9 WOR-TV in New York. He said that when they used to shut down in the middle of the night for maintenance on occasion, they used to input their transmission antenna into a receiver (how cool is that?!) and watch Channel 9 from Washington with a perfect color picture.
I guess you can't get any better than DX-ing channel 9 with a perfectly cut antenna from on top of the Empire State Building!
I guess you can't get any better than DX-ing channel 9 with a perfectly cut antenna from on top of the Empire State Building!
- Status