Sleeping Hound Waking Up at KCSN?

[Skyboyrox]

For the record, there is a NO ELITISM sign in the control room of KCSN. We are not going to program what music critics think you are SUPPOSED to like--rather music you can like. I have been working on finding a fine balance between familiar and discovery. I aim for "inspired accessibility".

In the coming weeks you will hear more stationality--personalities during the week, imaging, new music intros. We will no longer be an endless shuffle of music. I have imparted the need for concise, friendly raps--no stentorian lecturing or long monologues about arcane trivia. Since I am going to do afternoon drive, I will walk that talk myself.

If you want a smart Adult Alternative station, then I hope you listen and offer feedback. My email is sky.daniels @csun.edu

If you prefer to just remain a Radio-Info 'sniper', that is okay, too.

 

[david]

Ideas: Sleeping Hound Waking Up at KCSN?

For the record, there is a NO ELITISM sign in the control room of KCSN. We are not going to program what music critics think you are SUPPOSED to like--rather music you can like.  I have been working on finding a fine balance between familiar and discovery. I aim for "inspired accessibility".

In the coming weeks you will hear more stationality--personalities during the week, imaging, new music intros. We will no longer be an endless shuffle of music. I have imparted the need for concise, friendly raps--no stentorian lecturing or long monologues about arcane trivia.  Since I am going to do afternoon drive, I will walk that talk myself.

If you want a smart Adult Alternative station, then I hope you listen and offer feedback. My email is sky.daniels @csun.edu   

If you prefer to just remain a Radio-Info 'sniper', that is okay, too.

Sky.....Thank you for the invite to reach out to you directly at your csun.edu address. I definitely will. Unfortunately, living in Long Beach I am outside your signal's reach, but will be sure to listen much more to 88.5 during my near daily trips into LA.

Here are some of my ideas and hopes for the AAA station you are building for LA:
* Be upbeat - LA's prior AAA efforts (KSCA and 103.1) were too soft and too female skewing. Until now KCSN has been way too soft. LA's one historic successful AAA (KNX-FM) billed itself as Mellow Rock, but was really much more akin to a HOT AC in its musical sensibilities
* Be current - Be LA's source for what's new and breaking in adult rock. You have already smartly gotten on-board the Mumford & Sons train. Very smart. Be sure to also establish KCSN as LA's home for Matt Nathanson, the Decemberists, Gomez, Violens, Chief, All Mankind, The Naked and Famous, Scars on 45, etc.
* Be unique - already I am sensing a bit too much willingness to skew too instinctively into your library of songs that have been burned to a crisp on commercial radio. Why must you play Creep from Radiohead? Leave that to KROQ, and instead go for their catalog of other older hits. Similarly, if you choose to go back even farther into rock's history, such as with 10cc, play the wonderful but underplayed Wall Street Shuffle, and leave Dreadlock Holiday, I'm Not in Love, to the other less innovative stations
* Be visibly local - get out there so that your target demographic sees you, touches you, meets you (by you I mean of course anyone associated with the station - not just you alone)
* Be committed - part of the problem with the AAA efforts in this town have been over the years have been lofty expectations for immediate return. Most AAA stations that are viable have reached that plateau by being part of their market for years - and have obtained the moniker of "heritage"

 

[ChannelFlipper]

For the record, there is a NO ELITISM sign in the control room of KCSN. We are not going to program what music critics think you are SUPPOSED to like--rather music you can like. I have been working on finding a fine balance between familiar and discovery. I aim for "inspired accessibility".

In the coming weeks you will hear more stationality--personalities during the week, imaging, new music intros. We will no longer be an endless shuffle of music. I have imparted the need for concise, friendly raps--no stentorian lecturing or long monologues about arcane trivia. Since I am going to do afternoon drive, I will walk that talk myself.

If you want a smart Adult Alternative station, then I hope you listen and offer feedback. My email is sky.daniels @csun.edu

If you prefer to just remain a Radio-Info 'sniper', that is okay, too.

Not sure who the "sniper" is you refer to. If it is me, you must not have read my posts for very long. I am very much a longtime supporter of the station (inasmuch as I actually listen, but not in the financial sense, which I'm sure would be preferable). My only complaints are the absolute refusal to announce the artist and song title on air, and the fact that the playlist sometimes sounds like a string of artists that also play the at the local Barnes and Noble cafe.

All I said was with the hiring of Harcourt, that seems to bring in some unnecessary eltiism that in my mind is a hallmark of KCRW. One of the reasons I have always liked KCSN is that it is NOT KCRW - I have never heard them talk down to their audience. I never subscribed (as some have) to the idea that in order to bring AAA back, Nicole Sandler should be the one to do it. Nicole has had not one, but two shots to make a go of it and it hasn't worked out each time. There are many other candidates who could do a great job as well and the format should not be overly linked to an individual.

I feel the same way about Nic. I don't think you need his name recognition to build a great station and I don't think he is or should be the town's unofficial tastemaker. But at the same time I understand why you did it. KCSN's current profile in this town is so low, pirate stations running on off frequencies get more run and in order to increase the donations, you gotta do something to first generate buzz, or least acknowledgement of the station's existence.

I am just hoping the station improves without getting too cool for the room (or my dial).

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Look for some changes come July 1st. LOVE hearing feedback. Oh, here is the latest:

Nic Harcourt to join KCSN/Los Angeles...

So is there some sort of a switch to be flipped tomorrow or are these changes going to be phased in?

When does the first DJ come on? Will we notice a change in playlist? If this is going to be a major change why has it not really been promoted?

Inquiring minds nevermind, I, would like to know.

 

[radioresearcher]

There is no "void" for AAA in L.A.

There wasn't one when KSCA was on
There wasn't one when Channel 103.1 was on
There wasn't one when The Sound tried it

It doesn't exist, it hasn't existed, and never will.

And it won't be helped without at least having the OC.

 

[Skyboyrox]

To David at USC. Very thoughtful suggestions. We are on the same page. To ChannelFlipper--"sniper' comment not aimed at you. However, it is aimed at radioresearcher and his/her ilk.

20 best testing songs all the time--sure to build cume in Arbitron. Sure to kill the medium within five years. IMHO.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Look for some changes come July 1st. LOVE hearing feedback. Oh, here is the latest:

Nic Harcourt to join KCSN/Los Angeles...

So is there some sort of a switch to be flipped tomorrow or are these changes going to be phased in?

When does the first DJ come on? Will we notice a change in playlist? If this is going to be a major change why has it not really been promoted?

Inquiring minds nevermind, I, would like to know.

Tuned in for intermittent stretches of time this afternoon while I was going to/from client and running some errands. I didn't hear anything different, but I may not have been tuned in long enough to notice. Guess this is going to be a phased-in rollout, eh?

 

[radioresearcher]

There's a VOID for Active Rock more than AAA. That's something an underperforming signal could try in the rock world.

I believe the SOUND was a good example of how AAA isn't viable. They tried the format with massive amounts of marketing and delivered around a 1.0 share 25-54.

When they shifted toward a more familiar Classic Rock sound the ratings more than doubled.

Unfortunately, AAA is simply not familiar enough to work in the broad sense in PPM.

It's not a knock to Sky or his hard work and effort to try and make a go of it. It's just the reality of the format.

And, if you really want to see, take a trip to the Northridge mall and do a demographic study of the region. That's simply not a group of folks who will listen to a AAA format and the Valley is the primary area for the KCSN signal.

My comments are not meant to offend Sky for his passion ... just saying that the format has proven over and over again that it's not viable in this market - although I bet you could get a little bit of traction with some OC coverage or the L.A. county beach areas

 

[robnokshus06]

With all of this talk about whether or not there is a "void" for Triple-A or whether the market can "support" a AAA staion, it would be good to remember that KCSN is a non-com station. As such, the ratings hold a different value to KCSN than they would to say The Sound. They have different missions.

KCSN isn't competing for big, high frequency spot schedules. They don't need the kind of ratings that might get them onto buys like that. Running spot breaks like a commercial station would kill a station like KCSN.

Since they don't need to get ratings like that, they don't need to program their station like a commercial station either. They can be a bit adventurous, They can cater to the AAA audience, whatever that is, and concentrate on just being the best Triple-A station they can be. Sky Daniels is a sharp guy and has programmed and/or been involved with some pretty successful stations. I would imagine he has an idea or two about what he is doing. He probably also has some ideas about what he would do were he not a slave to Arbitron, a sales department, and some big, corporate behemoth breathing down his neck, handing down executive programming edicts that may or may not jibe with his programming philosophy.

That's not to say that he doesn't have to be successful, or that he doesn't have to answer to someone, of course he does. I would just imagine that success is going to be measured differently than for a commercial station. If they reach out to the community and become a valuable resource, if they appeal to a certain level of donor or underwriter, if they add prestige to the University, all of these things have value.

They could have NO Arbitron ratings and still be VERY successful, based on their own definition of success.

I say, Good Luck!

 

[ChannelFlipper]

With all of this talk about whether or not there is a "void" for Triple-A or whether the market can "support" a AAA staion, it would be good to remember that KCSN is a non-com station. As such, the ratings hold a different value to KCSN than they would to say The Sound. They have different missions.

KCSN isn't competing for big, high frequency spot schedules. They don't need the kind of ratings that might get them onto buys like that. Running spot breaks like a commercial station would kill a station like KCSN.

Since they don't need to get ratings like that, they don't need to program their station like a commercial station either. They can be a bit adventurous, They can cater to the AAA audience, whatever that is, and concentrate on just being the best Triple-A station they can be. Sky Daniels is a sharp guy and has programmed and/or been involved with some pretty successful stations. I would imagine he has an idea or two about what he is doing. He probably also has some ideas about what he would do were he not a slave to Arbitron, a sales department, and some big, corporate behemoth breathing down his neck, handing down executive programming edicts that may or may not jibe with his programming philosophy.

That's not to say that he doesn't have to be successful, or that he doesn't have to answer to someone, of course he does. I would just imagine that success is going to be measured differently than for a commercial station. If they reach out to the community and become a valuable resource, if they appeal to a certain level of donor or underwriter, if they add prestige to the University, all of these things have value.

They could have NO Arbitron ratings and still be VERY successful, based on their own definition of success.

I say, Good Luck!

Their definition of success is not a mystery. They survive on pledges and donations. If they can get enough pledges to pay staff and other operating costs, they will be successful. Their first metric can be to get enough local money donated to satisfy the minimum conditions to be eligible to receive CPB money. Maybe then they will be able to hire actual DJs to announce the songs (that's not my take; it's theirs. See the FAQ page on their website).

I think KCSN did a smart thing by deciding not to compete with KUSC for the geezer classical music donations and try something else. You may have noticed down at the Galleria that the demo there doesn't really support classical either. Plus, geezers have a habit of dying off and not contributing anymore. A big part of the demo that does like AAA were in their 20s and 30s in the 70s and 80s when they listened to stations like KMET, KLOS, and KNX-FM, which means they have either now attained or soon will attain geezer status themselves. But still much younger as a group than the classical audience, which is already well served, and presumably with enough disposable income to support a station that isn't playing Lady GaGa.

 

[radioresearcher]

With all of this talk about whether or not there is a "void" for Triple-A or whether the market can "support" a AAA staion, it would be good to remember that KCSN is a non-com station. As such, the ratings hold a different value to KCSN than they would to say The Sound. They have different missions.

KCSN isn't competing for big, high frequency spot schedules. They don't need the kind of ratings that might get them onto buys like that. Running spot breaks like a commercial station would kill a station like KCSN.

Since they don't need to get ratings like that, they don't need to program their station like a commercial station either. They can be a bit adventurous, They can cater to the AAA audience, whatever that is, and concentrate on just being the best Triple-A station they can be. Sky Daniels is a sharp guy and has programmed and/or been involved with some pretty successful stations. I would imagine he has an idea or two about what he is doing. He probably also has some ideas about what he would do were he not a slave to Arbitron, a sales department, and some big, corporate behemoth breathing down his neck, handing down executive programming edicts that may or may not jibe with his programming philosophy.

That's not to say that he doesn't have to be successful, or that he doesn't have to answer to someone, of course he does. I would just imagine that success is going to be measured differently than for a commercial station. If they reach out to the community and become a valuable resource, if they appeal to a certain level of donor or underwriter, if they add prestige to the University, all of these things have value.

They could have NO Arbitron ratings and still be VERY successful, based on their own definition of success.

I say, Good Luck!

Their definition of success is not a mystery. They survive on pledges and donations. If they can get enough pledges to pay staff and other operating costs, they will be successful. Their first metric can be to get enough local money donated to satisfy the minimum conditions to be eligible to receive CPB money. Maybe then they will be able to hire actual DJs to announce the songs (that's not my take; it's theirs. See the FAQ page on their website).

I think KCSN did a smart thing by deciding not to compete with KUSC for the geezer classical music donations and try something else. You may have noticed down at the Galleria that the demo there doesn't really support classical either. Plus, geezers have a habit of dying off and not contributing anymore. A big part of the demo that does like AAA were in their 20s and 30s in the 70s and 80s when they listened to stations like KMET, KLOS, and KNX-FM, which means they have either now attained or soon will attain geezer status themselves. But still much younger as a group than the classical audience, which is already well served, and presumably with enough disposable income to support a station that isn't playing Lady GaGa.

At some point, I hope David will chime into this discussion in that the demographics - whether they are slave to Arbitron or donations - still need to reach those who are out there. If I am any kind of corporation who would do a sponsorship of some sort, I am going to want to know that I reach someone.

Under the age of 35 - which is what I would consider "young" - you have a very small minority of non-ethnic who would even listen to this station.

Go look at KROQ's ratings after 10am. Even the audience of KYSR and KROQ is becoming negligible by the day.

Again, you talk about the community. I spent 30+ years living 3 miles for CSUN and I can tell you there aren't a lot of AAA listeners in that coverage area.

CSUN is run by complete morons. They built a stupid arts center instead of building some sort of real arena that holds maybe 10,000-15,000 that could draw MAJOR concerts by MAJOR artists into the Valley.

For an area of 1+ million people, we need to drive to Universal City, Hollywood, or Downtown L.A. to see any kind of decent concert. CSUN would've made a killing had they built an arena where they could bring artists who would sell tickets and or maybe other "events" like a convention, et al. The Valley has no place for those things but CSUN thought we needed some stupid arts complex.

The "arts" - you have to be kidding. This isn't San Francisco or New York. And now they are adding more "arts" by switching their radio station.

For a place of higher learning, you would think someone would've studied the demography of the signal before they placed a format on it.

Non-com KCEP in Las Vegas runs the lone African American radio station in the market and gets a 2.0 share. Non-com KNAI/Phoenix runs a Regional Mexican format and currently ranks ahead of 4 other Spanish language stations.

These non-coms clearly studied the demographics. Most of the elitists think non-commerical must target upscale white people with $$... maybe that's why most of the non-coms in Los Angeles have no listeners.

 

[Buckethead]

The PD doesn't decide the format, the management does. A PD is then hired to execute the managements decision.
Why on earth the management of KCSN is stuck on the idea of a AAA format is uncertain, and Sky will make the best of the opportunity.
I have a feeling there are internal decisions about programming being made by academic staff.
That's got to be worse than a sales department that wants to be in programming.
A PD is usually encumbered by other people's ideas. In this case there's probably a panel of college trustees
who all have to get their favorites in, and that includes their favorite shows.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

The PD doesn't decide the format, the management does. A PD is then hired to execute the managements decision.
Why on earth the management of KCSN is stuck on the idea of a AAA format is uncertain, and Sky will make the best of the opportunity.
I have a feeling there are internal decisions about programming being made by academic staff.
That's got to be worse than a sales department that wants to be in programming.
A PD is usually encumbered by other people's ideas. In this case there's probably a panel of college trustees
who all have to get their favorites in, and that includes their favorite shows.

I bet there is great truth in this. Good post!

 

[Skyboyrox]

I love discourse.

A lot of great points being made. Although many of them inaccurate in regards to 'how we operate'.

KCSN is smart rock. is that a format? We have a booster that covers the West Side and most of downtown LA. We hit two valleys with a lot of bedroom communities with upscale incomes. We cover an area 0f 2 to 3 million. We have a LOT of work to do to make people aware.

But we will. I have built from the ground floor a couple of times. Can we spend money like others have to launch with digital billboards, TV spots ,etc? No. So give us time to build through grass-roots passion.

As I said, Arbitron only comes in play with advertisers who need to feel there is reach a certain number. But ROI is still critical to discreet advertisers--and most big numbered ARB stations fail miserably in that mission.

I've seen stations triple their numbers playing the PPM cume game and they can't draw 500 people to their annual festival.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I love discourse.

A lot of great points being made. Although many of them inaccurate in regards to 'how we operate'.

KCSN is smart rock. is that a format?

Uh-oh, there's that elitism that I warned about. "See, our rock is smarter than yours!"

That smart-rock playbook has been tried over and over and lost every time, and will be doomed to failure again if you keep reading it.

What has made great rock stations in the past successful? KROQ, KMET, KQLZ "Pirate Radio" while it lasted, 91X back in the day, and even to a certain extent, Indie. They all sought to entertain their listeners by having FUN, having an ATTITUDE, having a POINT OF VIEW (that was not anywhere close to "inteligentsia"), doing things that nobody else was doing. Giving listeners a reason to tune in because they were not totally sure exactly what was coming next.

Look, Daddy just gave you the keys to the family stationwagon and told you it was yours. You can either drive it around town obeying the speed limit while you do your errands and then go home, or you can pull that ugly vinyl wood siding off, paint it hot, load it up with beer and some cool tunes, grab your buddies and head on down to the beach to start a party and see what happens from there. The choice is yours.

That smart-rock crap will send me running for my CDs and Ipod. But as mentioned above, you'll be a big hit down at the faculty lounge and the local Coffee Bean.

 

[Dick Skinner]

I love discourse.

A lot of great points being made. Although many of them inaccurate in regards to 'how we operate'.

KCSN is smart rock. is that a format?

Uh-oh, there's that elitism that I warned about. "See, our rock is smarter than yours!"

That smart-rock playbook has been tried over and over and lost every time, and will be doomed to failure again if you keep reading it.

What has made great rock stations in the past successful? KROQ, KMET, KQLZ "Pirate Radio" while it lasted, 91X back in the day, and even to a certain extent, Indie. They all sought to entertain their listeners by having FUN, having an ATTITUDE, having a POINT OF VIEW (that was not anywhere close to "inteligentsia"), doing things that nobody else was doing. Giving listeners a reason to tune in because they were not totally sure exactly what was coming next.

Look, Daddy just gave you the keys to the family stationwagon and told you it was yours. You can either drive it around town obeying the speed limit while you do your errands and then go home, or you can pull that ugly vinyl wood siding off, paint it hot, load it up with beer and some cool tunes, grab your buddies and head on down to the beach to start a party and see what happens from there. The choice is yours.

That smart-rock crap will send me running for my CDs and Ipod. But as mentioned above, you'll be a big hit down at the faculty lounge and the local Coffee Bean.

Hey Sky, ignore the know-it-all naysayers on this board. Obviously, a university station presents a different "attitude' than Channel Flapper thinks warrants his attention. After all, he runs with the cool crowd; you'll never live up to their standards no matter what you do. You'll find him down at the beach with his cool buddies laughing at fat girls because, well, he's one of the cool guys. And for the record, mentioning Indie in the same breath with that list of institutions is, well, stupid. That station was never anything like successful. It was cooler-than-thou though, and a few cool guys down in HB were big followers, but they aren't elitist, right?

 

[Buckethead]

I guess those few guys down in HB were editors for Rolling Stone Magazine when they voted Indie The Best Radio Station In America".

 

[Dick Skinner]

I guess those few guys down in HB were editors for Rolling Stone Magazine when they voted Indie The Best Radio Station In America".

Yeah, my mistake. They've never been wrong.

 

[TALENTfilter]

From AllAccess.com:

CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY NORTHRIDGE Triple A KCSN/LOS ANGELES PD SKY DANIELS has announced more programming changes for the station.

In addition to NIC HARCOURT joining the station, whose new "CONNECTIONS" show will run 3-6p SATURDAYS (see JUNE 17th story here), longtime L.A. TIMES pop music critic ROBERT HILBURN will host a show called "ROCK 'N' ROLL TIMES WITH ROBERT HILBURN" that will air at 6p SUNDAYS. Another former TIMES staffer, KEVIN BRONSON will bring his "BUZZ BANDS" coverage of LOS ANGELES-based bands on the rise to the station from midnight-1a on SUNDAYS. These shows begin the weekend of JULY 15th.

Further, DANIELS himself will return to the airwaves July 18th as the station's afternoon drive DJ (3-7p weekdays); format vet JIM NELSON will handle the morning drive slot (6-10a weekdays) and MEISHEL MENACHEKANIAN will be doing middays (10a-3p weekdays). The station also will continue to carry NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO's "WORLD CAFÉ" program 7-9p weeknights.

"We’re going to play music that can be cutting edge; it might be from an act that will be the next big thing, it can be adventurous, but it's always going to be coming from a place where you can like it, and you don't have to work to like it or pretend to like it so you can keep your credibility card," said DANIELS. "It's going to be a listenable station with two governing ideas: message and melody."



...so basically, AM Drive and Middays will be handled by guys with no full-time on-air experience, and weekend specialty shows have been given to two former newspaper writers who have no on-air experience at all?

 

[radiojomo]

KCSN won't do much justice for us down here in Orange County. I already gave up on FM Rock Radio to the point where I installed SiriusXM in all my cars.