Sleeping Hound Waking Up at KCSN?

[Dick Skinner]

For a member-supported station, the level of “passion” that KCSN generates in its audience should NOT be measured by Arbitron. “Passion” for KCSN should be measured in PLEDGES, in musicians who will play in your studios, and in volunteers for your station’s street team! Commercial stations depend on ratings for revenue, but do pledge dollars depend on ratings for member-supported stations?

Arbitron measures the number of listeners and how long they listen. So, of course, more listeners...more pledges. That's fairly simple. Labels aren't interested in pledges...they care about how many impressions their records are going to make when played on a station. Mediabase breaks out the number of impressions a record makes by taking into account the station's cume and AQH (Arbitron measurements). A label isn't going to support a station (artist appearances, promotions, concerts, etc.) with no measured listeners. And it doesn't matter if it's commercial or non-comm. Oh, and more listeners...more volunteers. That's the correlation.

 

[raylee]

For a member-supported station, the level of “passion” that KCSN generates in its audience should NOT be measured by Arbitron. “Passion” for KCSN should be measured in PLEDGES, in musicians who will play in your studios, and in volunteers for your station’s street team! Commercial stations depend on ratings for revenue, but do pledge dollars depend on ratings for member-supported stations?

Arbitron measures the number of listeners and how long they listen. So, of course, more listeners...more pledges. That's fairly simple. Labels aren't interested in pledges...they care about how many impressions their records are going to make when played on a station. Mediabase breaks out the number of impressions a record makes by taking into account the station's cume and AQH (Arbitron measurements). A label isn't going to support a station (artist appearances, promotions, concerts, etc.) with no measured listeners. And it doesn't matter if it's commercial or non-comm. Oh, and more listeners...more volunteers. That's the correlation.

---
Is anyone at KCSN looking at the Americana Music Charts and factoring that into the existing subscriber/listener base that KCSN has on their weekend shows? It seems this would be an untapped underserved market in Los Angeles. http://americanaradio.org/ama/displaychart_beforetracks.asp?mode=lw&dtkey=

 

[Skyboyrox]

Membership is important to KCSN on a multiple of levels. First, it demonstrates people appreciate the station enough to pledge. The pledge dollars are a meaningful part of what it costs to sustain the station.

But , as Manny stated--more members generate more pledges. More listeners offer confidence to underwriters to sponsor programming. KCSN has had a small, but dedicated audience. Our challenge is to grow that audience. We seek to be self-sustaining, and not rely on funding from the University, for obvious reasons in the current California state fiscal climate.

To do that, we must--and will, attract a greater number of passionate listeners.

 

[raylee]

Membership is important to KCSN on a multiple of levels. First, it demonstrates people appreciate the station enough to pledge. The pledge dollars are a meaningful part of what it costs to sustain the station.

But , as Manny stated--more members generate more pledges. More listeners offer confidence to underwriters to sponsor programming. KCSN has had a small, but dedicated audience. Our challenge is to grow that audience. We seek to be self-sustaining, and not rely on funding from the University, for obvious reasons in the current California state fiscal climate.

To do that, we must--and will, attract a greater number of passionate listeners.

Is your strategy a similar play list to KPIG? http://www.kpig.com/index.cfm/playlist.htm

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Membership is important to KCSN on a multiple of levels. First, it demonstrates people appreciate the station enough to pledge. The pledge dollars are a meaningful part of what it costs to sustain the station.

But , as Manny stated--more members generate more pledges. More listeners offer confidence to underwriters to sponsor programming. KCSN has had a small, but dedicated audience. Our challenge is to grow that audience. We seek to be self-sustaining, and not rely on funding from the University, for obvious reasons in the current California state fiscal climate.

To do that, we must--and will, attract a greater number of passionate listeners.

Is your strategy a similar play list to KPIG? http://www.kpig.com/index.cfm/playlist.htm

I think he would like to aspire to that playlist (and it looks like a good one, to be sure), but his job is to get listenership UP. And he is doing so the only way that he (or anyone else) knows - PLAY THE HITS. While I like the new direction of the station, he has definitely increased the gold catalog, much more so than I would like, and definitely more so than the referenced KPIG list.

I am not complaining; his job is about as difficult as one could have in radio - Increase listenership to a station that has nearly no base to work from, do it in a market that demographically doesn't want anything to do with the format you are trying to program, on a station with virtually no promotion budget and a very limited signal at the end of the dial, and do it all in a PC manner fit for an association with a public university in the State of California, with all of the attendant meddling that must come from the university administrators.

Good Luck Sky, you'll need it.

 

[Buckethead]

I'm agreeing with most of what Channel Flipper said.
At the end of the day I'm left wondering who the target audience is
that they are trying to serve.
You might spend and entire day canvasing the campus and not find a single person
who is interested in hearing the Pure Prairie League.
So who is the target audience?

 

[Skyboyrox]

We are the Adult Alternative station for Los Angeles (if I have to assign a format name). Definitely not trying to be KPIG. Much like WXPN in Philadelphia or KKXT in Dallas, we serve the market from a campus base. You want station reference points--check out how the aforementioned WXPN or WXRT in Chicago programs to their market.

We have actually INCREASED the current airplay--i think you notice the Gold because you RECOGNIZE the gold now.

Compared to the pressure (fiscal demands and formatic restrictiveness) placed on my commercial brethren, my job is a joy. You are right, it is an ENORMOUS challenge to attract listeners without marketing and a full market stick.

Patience, perseverance, and positive action.

 

[Buckethead]

Let's face it, even though we call them "non-comms" public radio stations sell commercials and therefore needto show ratings numbers. They don't call them commercials, they call them "underwriting".

ie- This hour of KXXX is made possible by a generous grant from Chrysler. 'Chrysler, the makers of the 2011 Labarron, voted the number one mid-size luxury car in America. See your local Chrysler dealer or visit Chrysler.com'.

This we know. We also know KCSN has been registering a 0.0 in the PPM.

In summary, a non-comm sells "underwriting". Chrysler isnt going to buy a 0.0.

Donations from the public are also a portion of the proceeds, and as other stations have shown, are most successful when they integrate "gifts" to donors which have been made possible by "corporate sponsor x, the makers of the new...".

This is what a GM is supposed to do at a non-com.

Ive not seen much in the way of sponsorship or fund-raising at KCSN which indicates that there has been nothing to sell or the GM hasnt been doing their job well or both.

 

[Dick Skinner]

Arbitron measures the number of listeners and how long they listen. So, of course, more listeners...more pledges.

Since Sky's reply quoted yours, I assume that he agrees with the correlation postulated by you. However, I don't believe that KCSN will find a direct correlation between increasing ratings and adding members. Ratings try to measure total audience, but how many of those actually "appreciate the station enough to pledge"? (Similarly according to its counter, this thread has been read over 4,000 times but only a couple dozen readers have contributed to our discussion. And how many of these contributors have actually contributed frequently or meaningfully?)

Although KCSN’s audience is currently small, I respectfully differ with Sky’s view because he believes that the station’s "challenge is to grow that audience." The much harder challenge for Sky will be how to "generate passion" that will convince its audience to pledge their financial support to the station! Frankly, I’m skeptical that broadening KCSN’s audience alone will proportionately increase its pledge dollars.

That makes no sense. If they appreciate the station enough to listen, a certain percentage will pledge. You're assuming that a negligible number of listeners of a station programmed on an iPod will pledge more than a measurable share of the available audience who likes the station enough to frequently listen. That's nonsense. And what do this thread's visitors have to do with anything? If you're going to draw an analogy, at least try to stay on point. Good programming generates passion, whatever you think that is. Convincing a listener to pledge is no different from convincing a listener to buy a product or a ticket or a service. If the message is good and they like the messenger, they buy. That is, of course, americanus, you've come up with a whole new set of marketing principles that none of us knows about yet. If so, please enlighten us.

 

[Doctah]

If I were Sky I would have seriously considered seeing if there was a way to license the name "Indie" and perhaps even bring on board a former Indie 103.1 jock or two. You laugh, but that station inspired intense loyalty (and its numbers would have actually been stellar for an L.A. non-com). A rebranded "Indie 88.5," playing essentially a version of their playlist now, would have incited the local media and blogs to pay close attention -- giving the station tons of free publicity. Plus, you've just bought instant credibility from labels, bands and local venues. Even if it's smoke and mirrors -- this isn't the old Indie, after all -- they won't realize that. They'll just see a familiar name that they used to do business with.

 

[Buckethead]

Couldn't agree more Doctah. Not with taking the name, but the spirit of old Indie.

Americana, pledges are not where most of the money comes from. Sponsorships are.
And sponsors buy numbers.

 

[calguy]

Couldn't agree more Doctah. Not with taking the name, but the spirit of old Indie.

Then they would be trading one small audience for another, but perhaps it could work.

 

[Buckethead]

Well the name change won't happen. Though it would get a large amount of press, unless you used the actual people it would be meaningless. But it would be more like exchanging no audience for a 300,000 cume. It would be smart to have some integration.

 

[goriajk]

Sky Wrote "Patience, perseverance, and positive action". Folks, I'm actually enjoying the playlist - and I noticed much more current stuff like Adele and The Decemberists. Man, Lovin It..Even Love The 'Gold' like Cat Stevens 'Sitting' - what was the last time I heard that gem on local radio. Sky, Add this to the playlist, Please play Wilco's "Impossible Germany" you will make my day Joe G "Bear"

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Sky Wrote "Patience, perseverance, and positive action". Folks, I'm actually enjoying the playlist - and I noticed much more current stuff like Adele and The Decemberists. Man, Lovin It..Even Love The 'Gold' like Cat Stevens 'Sitting' - what was the last time I heard that gem on local radio. Sky, Add this to the playlist, Please play Wilco's "Impossible Germany" you will make my day Joe G "Bear"

I'm not sure about that particular track, but Wilco is *definitely* in the rotation.

 

[raylee]

If I were Sky I would have seriously considered seeing if there was a way to license the name "Indie" and perhaps even bring on board a former Indie 103.1 jock or two. You laugh, but that station inspired intense loyalty (and its numbers would have actually been stellar for an L.A. non-com). A rebranded "Indie 88.5," playing essentially a version of their playlist now, would have incited the local media and blogs to pay close attention -- giving the station tons of free publicity. Plus, you've just bought instant credibility from labels, bands and local venues. Even if it's smoke and mirrors -- this isn't the old Indie, after all -- they won't realize that. They'll just see a familiar name that they used to do business with.

well, maybe just round up some of the old jocks and offer them slots at KCSN - Chris Morris, Jonesy's Juke Box, hell call up Jimmy Rabbit - the old KROQ jock - he may come out of retirement for this one, Jed the Fish, Isabel Holt, etc, etc

 

[Skyboyrox]

Been a while since I responded. We spoke to some Indie personalities, and dialogue continues with some. I would hire Jed The Fish in a heartbeat, he is a personal friend and I think he is the penultimate alternative jock--but these are volunteer positions--and a number of personalities want paid (understandably).

We have a few more announcements coming. One that I am particularly excited about.

I don't know how an outsider (americana) would be privy to our internal business--CPB and the like, so that raises a serious red flag.

Keep offering insight, I am paying attention...

 

[raylee]

I would hire Jed The Fish in a heartbeat....

Ask Jed maybe he could be coaxed to volunteer if you let him play what ever he wants - that would be cool. Ray Farrell at Emusic would be worth asking too.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Been a while since I responded. We spoke to some Indie personalities, and dialogue continues with some. I would hire Jed The Fish in a heartbeat, he is a personal friend and I think he is the penultimate alternative jock--but these are volunteer positions--and a number of personalities want paid (understandably).

We have a few more announcements coming. One that I am particularly excited about.

I don't know how an outsider (americana) would be privy to our internal business--CPB and the like, so that raises a serious red flag.

Keep offering insight, I am paying attention...

Sky, as I posted before, I definitely understand the challenges you must face as you try to increase listenership/ratings/contributions, BUT, the playlist over the last few weeks has relied way too much on very familiar gold tracks.

I usually only hear the station in only in short spurts, but I spent about 40 minutes listening yesterday morning as I was driving up the 101 to visit a client and was deeply disappointed to hear The Cars, The Call, David Gray, Counting Crows, Duran Duran, Cheryl Crowe and Jesus Jones. Am I listening to KCSN or Jill? Each song on its own was fine, but that is simply way too much gold in that short of a period. In that same period I only heard four new AAA cuts including Harcourt's weekly pick at the top of the hour. After my visit, I leave about 4:20 and hear Dire Straits, Marvin Gaye, Amy Winehouse and U2. 3 out of 4 are gold. Again, not quibbling with the specific cuts (Well, maybe the U2 "New Years Day", but that is a personal thing) and I am sure you probably were playing some good stuff both before and after I tuned in, but that is what I heard in my relatively small sample.

I am a borderline listener in that I have never given before, but could be persuaded to support good local commercial-free radio with a few bucks now and then, but if you think I am paying for all the mainstream tracks I listed above - not happening. Why should I pay for cuts I can hear for free elsewhere?

Next Up: Please consider bringing back the Twang show on the weekends. I miss it and I don't know of another show like it anywhere else. It really classed up the weekend set of shows.

 

[TALENTfilter]

Two comments...

I heard a promo announcing that the station is 'selling' CDs out of its prize closet. Five CDs at random for $25. It sounded really tacky. Selling promo CDs? C'mon. I know it's a public radio station, but there's gotta be a less cheesy way to position it. Hell, just quietly bring them to Amoeba and trade them in for cash.

Second - that midday jock is horrible. No passion for the music. Does somebody owe this kid's dad a favor or something? Wow.