Smooth Jazz Not Dead

[Capulet]

Looks like that " smooth jazz format " is not dead after all. At least not in Elryria!

Good luck on the return of the format to the new owners of WNWV!

Wonder if they'll being back the old WNWV staff?

 

[SonoSational18]

The format isn't dead but seems to be on life support everywhere. Time will tell if it gains any traction in the ratings. It's been two years and listeners have developed new habits.

 

[Capulet]

It's been two years and listeners have developed new habits.

Somewhere someplace somehow Rubber Radio had assembled enough data to substantiate a return to a format once declared dead.

They ( new owners ) spent 6 million dollars for a signal that presented this format ( smooth jazz ) for years. Someone declared the format " dead " ( John Gorman ? ) and they switched to AAA, consulted by same local industry " guru " ( John Gorman ) which failed miserably.

What is a more significant of failure than selling a station with afailed format? Most format flips areenough of a sign of failure. Selling the station, firing the staff, and going back to the original format is evidence of a failed effort.

Great job John. How's the book sales going?

 

[johnbasalla]

Has it been confirmed that the new format will be "Smooth Jazz" as we've known it or will it be a new take on the format?

 

[Rusty Muck]

Looks like that " smooth jazz format " is not dead after all. At least not in Elryria!

It will be an Elyria station by COL only. WNWV is temporarily moving to Akron as soon as the money changes hands between ELB and RCRG; then, 107.3 soon have permanent studios somewhere between Cleveland and Akron.

 

[Rusty Muck]

It's been two years and listeners have developed new habits.

Somewhere someplace somehow Rubber Radio had assembled enough data to substantiate a return to a format once declared dead.

They ( new owners ) spent 6 million dollars for a signal that presented this format ( smooth jazz ) for years. Someone declared the format " dead " ( John Gorman ? ) and they switched to AAA, consulted by same local industry " guru " ( John Gorman ) which failed miserably.

What is a more significant of failure than selling a station with afailed format? Most format flips areenough of a sign of failure. Selling the station, firing the staff, and going back to the original format is evidence of a failed effort.

Great job John. How's the book sales going?

The biggest loser in all this WASN'T John Gorman.

It was Lonnie Gronek, who as GM somehow micromanaged The Wave to a premature death, then he tried to champion the AAA format, all the while as part of a company that didn't, and never would, externally market themselves. He forced out Bernie Kimble, then initiated a sequence of bizarre lineup changes (losing long-time staffers Richard Greer and Tom Murphy within a six-month span) and gave Angie Carli little-to-no-control over programming.

All the while, he was quietly developing "Boom!" with Rocco and consultant Gorman for several months beforehand. (How secretive was this? Literally NO ONE knew until three weeks before the scheduled flip.) Then he awkwardly killed off the SJ format a week ahead of time with no proper goodbye, after the Elyria Chronicle and OMW blew his cover.

And before you ask, "Capulet," I know and have personally talked at length with former Wave staffers over the past 2-3 years. They blame Lonnie. And they lend a VERY credible and compelling argument as to why. Mismanagement doesn't begin to describe how this all went down. Smooth jazz is clearly a format that's nationally on the decline, but it didn't deserve a death like this. Just because you're a locally owned radio station DOESN'T mean you are automatically better than Clear Channel, CBS or Cumulus.

Argue what you want on Rocco's powers as PD, and hate on Gorman all you want. But Lonnie is the single solitary reason WNWV now faces itself with new ownership and a possible semi-reversion to their previous format.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Has it been confirmed that the new format will be "Smooth Jazz" as we've known it or will it be a new take on the format?

My impressions are that it's the latter. Possibly with less instrumentals, and a more lively sound (as much as you can get with that type of format).

Rubber City better get in the market game, and quick, to re-establish WNWV as the "smooth ____" station in the ears of listeners. And pray that the PPM rating system treats them kindly.

Interesting when you think about how The Wave functioned... the simplest stuff ("The Trip-A-Day Giveaway," ads with the "Relax" tagline, an occasional TV ad or billboard, mail-order promotional materials) got them to #5 or #6 in the 12+ beauty rankings. They must have done SOMETHING right, no?

 

[Capulet]

What is more significant of failure than selling a station with a failed format? Most format flips are enough of a sign of failure. Selling the station, firing the staff, and going back to the original format is evidence of a failed effort.

I guess those Bruce Springsteen bootleg recordings didn't quite get the numbers they were suposed to? :'(

It'll be fun to see how the return of smooth jazz to this Elyria station performs after the failed AAA experiment.

 

[CleveRadioInsider]

I for one am happy that this final experiment at trying to resurrect WMMS in one shape or another in people's minds is over. Bring in all new staffers and give the station someone different on air. Clevelanders are in love with the past for whatever reason when it comes to radio and air personalities. Rocco and Ravenna Miceli had a nice run, John Gorman had a nice run. Time to let other people blaze a trail. Bow out gracefully.

 

[Rusty Muck]

What is more significant of failure than selling a station with a failed format? Most format flips are enough of a sign of failure. Selling the station, firing the staff, and going back to the original format is evidence of a failed effort.

It starts at the top. Who initiated the whole storyline in the first place?

Lonnie Gronek.

Lonnie thought he could sell AAA, so he slowly blew up The Wave over the course of 18 months.

That is an iron-clad fact.

Again, I've talked with former Wave staffers that worked with Lonnie. I think I can believe what THEY are talking about. THEY have credibility in my eyes, as I strive for a balanced, all-around picture.

Lonnie brought together Rocco and Brad Hanson and hired John Gorman as a consultant by his own free will. Rocco, John and Brad didn't put a gun to Lonnie's head and forced him to kill off "The Wave," nor did they force him to triumph AAA, when there was no possible way either the station, the staff or ELBC could remotely pull it off.

And to even entertain the thought that John Gorman held such lofty, magnanimous power over everyone at WNWV is shockingly stupid and devoid of any merit whatsoever. I'm torn between either flaming you, burying you with facts and statistics, or laughing you out of the room with your continuous ignorance.

Your irrational hatred of John Gorman blinds you from seeing the real problem. Always has.

 

[Buckeyes2001]

Was 107.3 the Wave affiliated at all with the now defunct V98.7 up in Detroit? I read that the Wave flipping to AAA had something to do with V98.7 flipping to AMP radio. Any truth to that?

 

[vjm]

What is more significant of failure than selling a station with a failed format? Most format flips are enough of a sign of failure. Selling the station, firing the staff, and going back to the original format is evidence of a failed effort.

I guess those Bruce Springsteen bootleg recordings didn't quite get the numbers they were suposed to? :'(

It'll be fun to see how the return of smooth jazz to this Elyria station performs after the failed AAA experiment.

AAA bombed...no arguements there.

Who was at fault...doesn't matter, as it will be done away with soon enough.

Though portraying 107.3 as an "Elyria station" is selling it short. They are a full market solid class B signal. All through the Wave years, they were in the top 10 ratings wise.

And I'll eat my hat if we go back to the all Kenny G and Dave Koz style "smooth jazz" format, and don't get "Smooth AC" (best described as Soft AC/Lite Rock with a dash of R&B).

 

[vjm]

Was 107.3 the Wave affiliated at all with the now defunct V98.7 up in Detroit? I read that the Wave flipping to AAA had something to do with V98.7 flipping to AMP radio. Any truth to that?

I wouldn't think so.

WNWV was (until now) always locally owned by Elyria-Lorian Broadcasting (ELB), who never owned any stations in Michigan.

Now 107.3 can (during optimum weather conditions) be heard semi-clearly in Detroit, but anything V 98.7 did would be on their own accord, and not really related to 107.3

 

[Rusty Muck]

Was 107.3 the Wave affiliated at all with the now defunct V98.7 up in Detroit? I read that the Wave flipping to AAA had something to do with V98.7 flipping to AMP radio. Any truth to that?

I wouldn't think so.

WNWV was (until now) always locally owned by Elyria-Lorian Broadcasting (ELB), who never owned any stations in Michigan.

Now 107.3 can (during optimum weather conditions) be heard semi-clearly in Detroit, but anything V 98.7 did would be on their own accord, and not really related to 107.3

ELB did own four stations in Florida between the 1950s and 1980s, during the Paul Nakel era, but that was about it. V98.7 was owned by Infinity Broadcasting (now known as CBS - which continues to own successor station WDZH "AMP."

Most smooth jazz stations shared some sort of branding, but not that much. WNWV itself started out as a 24/7 piped-in satellite format from Metromedia (then-owners of KTWV) which supplied 107.3 with their first logo and the "Wave" name. When they ended carriage of the sattelite format, a royalty dispute with KTWV wound up with WNWV branding itself as "Cleveland's Cool FM: 107.3 WNWV."

That lasted for about 18 months, when a license arrangement was made with KTWV to bring the "Wave" name back. Since then, WNWV had (and apparently still has) exclusivity rights to the "Wave" name - no station in a 60-mile radius can lay claim to it.

AFAIK, V98.7 never used the "Wave" name. But the current WMXD/92.3 in Detroit did back in 1988 when they too piped in the Metromedia KTWV format.

 

[Capulet]

What is more significant of failure than selling a station with a failed format? Most format flips are enough of a sign of failure. Selling the station, firing the staff, and going back to the original format is evidence of a failed effort.

I'm torn between either flaming you, burying you with facts and statistics, or laughing you out of the room with your continuous ignorance.

What's with the personal attack Nathan? Pretty immature.

Facts are facts. WNWV flips to AAA and tanks. Mix 106.5 flips to " We play anything " and kills!
Go figure. BTW, Lonnie wasn't programming. Other AAA stations in the country are successful.
There are many formats, and some good programmers are still working. And there is bad programming that results in format flips when stations are sold.

It will be interesting to see what WNWV puts on the air. Maybe it won't be smooth jazz. That could be a smoke screen.

 

[Capulet]

What is more significant of failure than selling a station with a failed format? Most format flips are enough of a sign of failure. Selling the station, firing the staff, and going back to the original format is evidence of a failed effort.

I guess those Bruce Springsteen bootleg recordings didn't quite get the numbers they were suposed to? :'(

It'll be fun to see how the return of smooth jazz to this Elyria station performs after the failed AAA experiment.

AAA bombed...no arguements there.

Though portraying 107.3 as an "Elyria station" is selling it short. They are a full market solid class B signal. All through the Wave years, they were in the top 10 ratings wise.

The soon to be jetisoned AAA that was on the air was poorly executed by management with no expertise in that format.

You're right. Calling that 107.3 " the Elyria station " is part sarcasm, part city of license! ;D
As you say they were a top 10 performer for years.

What they put on next will be interesting. The sonic wallpaper Kenny G smooth jazz of the " glory days of The Wave past " might not be the exact format path they tread.

Time will tell.

 

[AnotherCat]

using the "relax" tagline in 2011 would be the kiss of death with listeners under 55. Smooth A/C is iffy too because it is trusting that there are enough older listeners in the market who think the mainstream a/c is too "hot" and will switch to a softer sounding station. And again even if it gets traction the demos would kill you.

For this to not bleed money from the start there would have to be a reinvention of the approach to programming the music - a mindset that saw it as instrumental oriented adult alternative instead of "smooooooooth" jazz - not a progressive or ultra hip mindset but bringing some life, energy, and entertainment to the mix. Then they might be able to sneak in and carve a niche for 35-54s who are sick of the the 100 songs that A/C stations pound to death and just want a sonic vacation. The catch there is that these folks have probably moved on to streaming music on their mobile devices.

 

[Tim]

When car radios begin comming in mass with web access...and in-car broadband becomes cheaper....then, the world will change for "radio" stations, terrestrial and streaming.

For now, sure...listening on phones or on computers certainly is being done....but, the rather poor sound quality of tiny speakers on smart phones & most computers, and the additional monthly charges for unlimited mobile broadband is somewhat an inconvience.

 

[Buckeyes2001]

I found the article from the Plain Dealer from 12/23/09 just before the original 107.3 The Wave flipped to AAA:

http://www.cleveland.com/tv/index.ssf/2009/12/wnwv_the_wave_soon_to_flip_for.html

They claim PPM results are what prompted the format flip...

 

[Rusty Muck]

BTW, Lonnie wasn't programming.

When Lonnie was insisting on having certain songs played on "The Wave" (even directly to people like Bernie Kimble or Angie Carli, regardless of how they fared in listener testing), I'm sorry, but that's the definition of programming. Isn't it?

That extended throughout the whole "Boom!"/"V" era. Lonnie had direct input into the playlist and kept trying to leave his own mark at the station in accordance with his personal tastes.

He originally insisted upon a hybrid AAA/SJ format to be called "Jaaaz." I'm not kidding.

AND he was hell-bent on the "Boom!" name, in spite of multiple people asking him BEFORE the December 2009 format flip if ELBC had clearance to use it (those people already noticed the classic hits "Boom" in Toronto and CBS's HD-2 "Boom" in Seattle). Those people tried to pitch other names, INCLUDING "The Lake" or "The Peak," but Lonnie refused.

The only reason WNWV took the "V107.3" moniker was because it reminded Lonnie of "Z100."

By a sharp contrast, Lonnie's predecessor at ELBC, Gary Kniesley, was very much hands-off and let the program directors actually do their job. Throughout Gary's tenure, WNWV was in the top 10 overall with a minimum of marketing and word-of-mouth listener-ship.

There are many formats, and some good programmers are still working. And there is bad programming that results in format flips when stations are sold.

Rubber City could have re-booted the AAA format or reset 107.3 to modern rock. They might have even seriously considered it, for all we know. But it would have come with a totally new air-staff, new management, new programmers.

A total revamp or outright format flip WAS going to happen with this purchase. Period. This was a dead format walking... it had NO chance of survival.