Smooth Jazz Not Dead

[Rusty Muck]

I found the article from the Plain Dealer from 12/23/09 just before the original 107.3 The Wave flipped to AAA:

http://www.cleveland.com/tv/index.ssf/2009/12/wnwv_the_wave_soon_to_flip_for.html

They claim PPM results are what prompted the format flip...

And who made the claim? Lonnie Gronek. He said similar things in Cleveland Magazine.

Gee, Lonnie, did you not consider the fact that your meddling in the Wave's playlist and programming (firing successful PD Bernie Kimble and THEN your long-standing morning host and afternoon host in a matter of eight months) did more to implode the Wave's ratings?

After all, the PPM system was implemented at the same time you did such things, Lonnie...

 

[johnbasalla]

One thing the station has throughout the "Smooth Jazz" and "their version of AAA" is great sound quality, in other words, outstanding engineering. I remember hearing on 107.3 a little aural nuance in the song "Young Folks" by Peter, Bjorn and John that I never really heard on other radio stations, but could hear on an in-home system. They need that even more so for "Smooth Jazz", or a new version of it, since the music attracts a more sophisticated audience.

 

[Capulet]

BTW, Lonnie wasn't programming.

This was a dead format walking... it had NO chance of survival.

I coulda told you that when they signed on. ;D

Like I said, no one involved had any experience with the format. The " consultant " hadn't done any programming in over a decade. ??? The PD had zero AAA experience, either as jock or programmer. ???

But somehow they are not responsible for the failed programming? It's the GM's fault?
Please. :

Should be real easy for Rubber Radio to bounce back in the game with that signal!( pun intended ) ;D

LOL!

 

[vjm]

EVERYONE involved with V 107.3 has to eat a piece of the fecal sandwich here.

Assigning blame to one person isn't really right or material in this case.

Gronek, Rocco, Gorman, Brad Hansen...they all have to take a little blame for the disaster.

Now as far as the demise of the "original" Wave goes...it's true ratings were slipping, but Gronek did help it go down the drain that much faster.

But it simply isn't correct or fair to lay all of V 107.3's woes at just one man's feet...it was a group "effort".

 

[Rusty Muck]

But somehow they are not responsible for the failed programming? It's the GM's fault?
Please. :

Who presided in the killing of "The Wave," one of the longest-running success stories in Cleveland area radio?
Lonnie Gronek.

Who fired Bernie Kimble, Tom Murphy and Richard Greer, all of whom were well-tenured and extremely successful in the market, allowing the smooth jazz format to collapse at an alarming rate?
Lonnie Gronek.

Who brought aboard Rocco (already a part-time engineer for ELBC) to co-develop "Boom!" with gas money as mere compensation - in spite of Rocco having NO EXPERIENCE IN THE AAA FORMAT?
Lonnie Gronek.

Who tried to make a mockery of the AAA format by attempting to merge it with "Smooth Jazz" and call it "JAAAZ?"
Lonnie Gronek.

Who championed the "Boom!" name, even as people insisted that it they couldn't use it weeks before they got a cease-and-desist from BOTH CBS and Astral Media?
Lonnie Gronek.

And who kept Rocco as PD, allowing Rocco to continually mess with Gorman's initial playlist (and then blame Scott Studios for "malfunctioning"?)
Lonnie Gronek.

Who operated WNWV with such a micromanaging and meddlesome eye that their "name" consultant - and ONLY consultant - the very same person you so enjoy ripping on these boards, to leave the station months after the flip?
Lonnie Gronek.

Who allowed Rocco and Brad Hanson to turn WNWV into a total mess that Rubber City decided was a total loss?
Lonnie Gronek.

Who turned WNWV into a station that was once a ratings and revenue jewel for one of the few locally-owned firms in Cleveland, and never should have been allowed to be sold or leave Elyria, into a total disaster that was unloaded to Rubber City for an absurd pittance?
Lonnie Gronek.

And you are so brain-dead to ignore all of this and NOT blame the GM for WNWV winding up in the state it is currently in? "Capulet," if you AREN'T Lonnie, you are the dumbest, most stubborn idiot I have ever argued with. Dumber than "becker5," and that's saying a lot.

Facts don't get in the way of your irrational hatred of John Gorman, which of course, you have attacked him in an unjustified manner on this board multiple times. All of which are not only easily refutable lies, but are borderline slander against the man.

Get a freaking clue.

 

[Rusty Muck]

EVERYONE involved with V 107.3 has to eat a piece of the fecal sandwich here.

Assigning blame to one person isn't really right or material in this case.

Gronek, Rocco, Gorman, Brad Hansen...they all have to take a little blame for the disaster.

Now as far as the demise of the "original" Wave goes...it's true ratings were slipping, but Gronek did help it go down the drain that much faster.

But it simply isn't correct or fair to lay all of V 107.3's woes at just one man's feet...it was a group "effort".

The Wave never should have died in the first place, not at least in the manner it did.

Nor did WNWV have to be sold off and leave Elyria.

The AAA format deserved a FAR better run and fate in this market. After this, you'll never see it in Cleveland ever again, unless you're lucky to catch either WAPS or CIDR. And rock 'n roll as a whole in Cleveland radio will be gone in about 5 years when boilerplate classic rock WNCX will eventually, and far too predictably, die off.

One person is connected to all of this mess, and IS responsible for everything outlined in my previous post. That person never had a gun pointed to his head by Gorman, Rocco and Brad, forcing him make all of said changes at WNWV. That person did it of his own accord, and he failed mightily.

Everyone lost here. Blame needs to be properly attributed. What happened to WNWV is unacceptable on so many levels.

 

[vjm]

EVERYONE involved with V 107.3 has to eat a piece of the fecal sandwich here.

Assigning blame to one person isn't really right or material in this case.

Gronek, Rocco, Gorman, Brad Hansen...they all have to take a little blame for the disaster.

Now as far as the demise of the "original" Wave goes...it's true ratings were slipping, but Gronek did help it go down the drain that much faster.

But it simply isn't correct or fair to lay all of V 107.3's woes at just one man's feet...it was a group "effort".

The Wave never should have died in the first place, not at least in the manner it did.

Nor did WNWV have to be sold off and leave Elyria.

The AAA format deserved a FAR better run and fate in this market. After this, you'll never see it in Cleveland ever again, unless you're lucky to catch either WAPS or CIDR. And rock 'n roll as a whole in Cleveland radio will be gone in about 5 years when boilerplate classic rock WNCX will eventually, and far too predictably, die off.

One person is connected to all of this mess, and IS responsible for everything outlined in my previous post. That person never had a gun pointed to his head by Gorman, Rocco and Brad, forcing him make all of said changes at WNWV. That person did it of his own accord, and he failed mightily.

Everyone lost here. Blame needs to be properly attributed. What happened to WNWV is unacceptable on so many levels.

Gronek FUBAR-ed "The Wave", there is no doubt about it.

The way he future endeavored long time AMD host Tom Murphy, and PMD host Richard Greer showed he had the Boom/V AAA idea in his head for awhile before it actually came into fruition.

On that, he has undisputed claim, as he tried to fix what wasn't broken.

As far as the actual execution of the AAA format goes, on that one the blame gets distributed a little further.

You can't blame it ALL on Gronek, or Gorman, or Rocco, or Hansen, but none of them should escape it either.

It's really 2 different topics:

1. Putting WNWV in a position to fail--that's all Gronek for screwing around with "The Wave" to start with.

2. The disaster that was the flip to AAA (which could have worked if done properly)--the blame is a bit more wide spread.

 

[Capulet]

Hey Nathan,

Kinda curious as to why you hate Lonnie? ???

Pretty obvious you harbor some weird hatred for this man. Why ???

According to YOU, he's the guy who tanked the WAVE, then tanked Boom 107.3!
Everything is his fault ? Grow up pal.

Amazing how you spin this.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Kinda curious as to why you hate Lonnie? ???

Pretty obvious you harbor some weird hatred for this man. Why ???

Hatred? Ooh boy, you are grasping for straws now, Capulet. So now you're focusing at spewing LIES and slander against me because I blew your stupid "it's all Gorman's fault 107.3 failed" argument right off the bat. And it really was the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

Since I now have to EXPLAIN MYSELF because you chose now to personally attack me, I have no hatred for Lonnie. Never have met him, wouldn't mind meeting him or sitting down over a meal.

But I demand accountability. He serves as the one connecting thread in this whole saga. That cannot be denied. It must be recognized. I did so.

And you don't like it.

I guess I proved my point all along. Because it made you mad.

According to YOU, he's the guy who tanked the WAVE, then tanked Boom 107.3!

According to former staffers that I've talked to AT LENGTH. Yet another one of your LIES.

I've done my homework; you ignore everything and live in your own little fantasy land. You can't deny reality and stick your head in the sand all the time. It happened. All of it.

Do you want me to show pictures of me with these former staffers? Is it not good enough for you?

Or do you enjoy bullying me because it gives you that little kick of satisfaction?

Everything is his fault ?

Yup.

Grow up pal.

You grow up and stop attacking me every single moment.

Unlike you, I actually have proof - a whole ton of it, as a matter of fact. You have nothing but incorrect assumptions, generalities, and bullying towards me.

You fail to tell the truth, and trot out this accusation against me that I "hate" the man. All because you lost the argument. The fact I have to defend my name from cyber-bullies like you is downright embarrassing.

Amazing how you spin this.

It's amazing how YOU spin things, bud. You've spun things on this board every single time. About EVERYTHING. YOU have no credibility in my eyes. Never have, never will. Even when I pummel you with FACTS, and I have, you are too stubborn and too proud to see the facts.

Guess what? I will continue to do so on here as long as you continue to act like an impatient 4 year old.

 

[Rusty Muck]

It's really 2 different topics:

1. Putting WNWV in a position to fail--that's all Gronek for screwing around with "The Wave" to start with.

2. The disaster that was the flip to AAA (which could have worked if done properly)--the blame is a bit more wide spread.

Honestly, vjm, I've heard more inside stories about the whole "Boom!"/"V" experience that blew my mind. Us fellow plebeians don't even know the half of it. Applying blame on "Boom!"/"V" is FAR more lopsided than what was initially thought.

That's why I cited the whole litany of items directly attributed to Lonnie. No one really knows how poorly ELBC was and is run, from the top-down. If it weren't for Tim Alcorn working to sell high school sports coverage, WEOL/930 would have fallen silent a decade ago... Tim is literally WEOL's lifeline. And for several years, the Sandusky cluster has out-billed 107.3 - that shouldn't happen.

It's also arguable that if it WEREN'T for John Gorman trying to apply SOME direction to Lonnie and Rocco's mess of an AAA format (believe me, I heard the HD-2 channel a few times prior to the flip... it WAS a wholesale mess!) the station would have gone belly-up mere months after the format flip.

He's unfortunately tainted by "Lonnie's Follie."

 

[wffm78]

OK...let's all chill out here...and remember the old adage...Success has many fathers, failure has none. Guess what? This failure has many fathers...including the GM, the PD, the consultant, the on air staff, and the OWNER, who either lacked the resources or the willpower to promote the change in format.

Personally, I liked alot of the music the station played, but alot of times I'd tune it in and hear some obscure music I'd never heard of or remembered. Many people wanted to like the station, but the playlist was too wide and varied to amass a large audience. The station suffered an identity crisis, with 3-4 different names over it's 2 year lifespan. You had a midday host who would ramble on about nothing, and a morning personality with little personality. And when many of the target audience who might have tuned in NEVER saw advertising promoting the station, it never stood a chance.

Rock radio is going off in many markets across the country, just like easy listening, smooth jazz, nostalgia and many before it, due to aging demos and group owners chasing the next big format in radio...FM news and FM sports.

As for you, Nathan and Capulet...knock off the slamming and personal attacks. Neither one of you (as far as I can tell) we're personally involved in either the Wave, Boom, V...so do you REALLY know the inside details on what went down? Most likely not. Don't tarnish the brand name of Ohio Media Watch as its "secondary voice" by getting into a low end pissing match on a chat board. In the end, this is ALL opinion (unless you're Tom Mandel and have the keys to the transmitter, and can actually make a change to the format).

 

[74WIXYGrad]

If WONE, WQMX, and Akron News Now is any indication, RCRG will make whatever format work, especially with the locally owned, locally operated angle.

 

[Capulet]

...so do you REALLY know the inside details on what went down?

Nathan does! Just ask him! ;D

wffm78

I like your quote about " Success has many fathers, failure has none. " You do succintly
explain the " multiple " father's of this failure. If the GM at any radio station is responsible for hiring those under him, then the owner is ultimately responsible for hiring the GM. Like Bob Dylan says, "...you gotta serve somebody...... ".

The biggest loser in all of this is the audience.

As far as forums go, I agreewith you. This is all opinion. IMO why anyone resorts to calling names ( like bully, 4 year old, stubborn, and more ) is acting childish : .

I never used those words and phases in my posts to descibe anyone posting here.

Finally, if anyone is " tarnishing " anything it's the one doing the name calling.

 

[Capulet]

If WONE, WQMX, and Akron News Now is any indication, RCRG will make whatever format work, especially with the locally owned, locally operated angle.

That's a good point. I would add that they most likely will make sure they pick the right format to insure continued success.

 

[vjm]

...so do you REALLY know the inside details on what went down?

Nathan does! Just ask him! ;D

wffm78

I like your quote about " Success has many fathers, failure has none. " You do succintly
explain the " multiple " father's of this failure. If the GM at any radio station is responsible for hiring those under him, then the owner is ultimately responsible for hiring the GM. Like Bob Dylan says, "...you gotta serve somebody...... ".

The biggest loser in all of this is the audience.

As far as forums go, I agreewith you. This is all opinion. IMO why anyone resorts to calling names ( like bully, 4 year old, stubborn, and more ) is acting quite childish : .

I never used those words and phases in my posts to descibe anyone posting here.

Finally, if anyone is " tarnishing " anything it's the one doing the name calling.

I'll say this, Capulet--

You did kinda egg Nathan on a little bit, so he felt that he had to defend himself.

But as far as the 107.3 disaster goes, it's actually a two-pronged problem.

I'm with Nathan as far as Gronek screwing the pooch on the "Wave" format. While it did slip a bit, Lonnie made it go down the drain that much faster. That can't be disputed.

As far as Boom/V went, I see it a bit more your way as far as there being blood on everyone's hands.

Gronek, Rooco, Gorman, Hansen...they all deserve a little spanking, albeit some moreso than others.

If WONE, WQMX, and Akron News Now is any indication, RCRG will make whatever format work, especially with the locally owned, locally operated angle.

That's a good point. I would add that they most likely will make sure they pick the right format to insure continued success.

All of RGR's stations are solid as a rock, and if they do indeed turn WNWV into a modified version of the original Wave format (soft rock with a splash of R&B), then I would like to think that they'd have some success.

 

[wprt949]

they aint going back to smooth jazz its a decoy to another format to throw other stations off

 

[CleveFan]

In defense of Nathan, he knows a lot of radio & has a lot of good contacts. Capulet, I think you & him should agree to disagree on what happened with V/Boom, & wffm78, don't get involved in this "match" either. Your input didn't really help.

V/Boom failed to catch on because of little to no promotion, a bi-polar playlist, boring airstaff, even more boring presentation, numerous bad moves & a stubbornness when it came to filling a void (they should've flipped to Alternative after 92.3's switch). The station was doomed from day one.

The Wave will likely put a dent on both WDOK and WZAK. I do wish the new station success. Rubber City knows what they're doing.

 

[74WIXYGrad]

And as far as the side attraction on this thread, I will say this: I don't know Capulet, and I also suspect he posts on the Listening Party board as "onlyone". I have had off the board communications with Nathan and we talked for the first time this past summer. I have always been in awe of Nate's knowledge of radio despite of his age.

I see quite a bit of passion expressed by both in this thread, which can be viewed as a good thing. I think ELB and RBRG would rather see that instead of apathy.

 

[Cynyster]

Its amazing how insightful some of these posts seem. Almost as if the GM and PD were involved themselves. :-\

 

[1sttimecaller]

When does Rubber City take over? Thursday? Friday?