Snap Out Of It!

[Allfirdup]

I'm not familiar enough with what preceded Rush's entrance into the Columbus market to tell you why he may have garnered a 7 share back then. I'm willing to bet, however, that he was introduced to central Ohio with more fanfare than what ushered in WVKO's debut. I do vaguely recall dozens of billboards...Clear Channel, if memory serves me. He also had a TV show. That didn't last long, though, did it?

When Rush started in Columbus he was on 1230 WCOL at the time they were simulcasting the oldies format of WCOL fm, the stations were owned by Nationwide. it took a while but the finally they built a talk station around Rush. the changed the calls to WFII (1230 FYI) also the show that followed him was John and Ken out of LA. then later Alan Colmes had the afternoon slot. Nationwide never spent anything on promoting the station. later when Clear Channel bought the station they moved rush to WTVN and changed the talk format to sports

 

[del_griffith]

I'm not familiar enough with what preceded Rush's entrance into the Columbus market to tell you why he may have garnered a 7 share back then. I'm willing to bet, however, that he was introduced to central Ohio with more fanfare than what ushered in WVKO's debut. I do vaguely recall dozens of billboards...Clear Channel, if memory serves me. He also had a TV show. That didn't last long, though, did it?

When Rush started in Columbus he was on 1230 WCOL at the time they were simulcasting the oldies format of WCOL fm, the stations were owned by Nationwide. it took a while but the finally they built a talk station around Rush. the changed the calls to WFII (1230 FYI) also the show that followed him was John and Ken out of LA. then later Alan Colmes had the afternoon slot. Nationwide never spent anything on promoting the station. later when Clear Channel bought the station they moved rush to WTVN and changed the talk format to sports

Well yes and no. 1230 was running oldies at the time Rush was added. I forget whether it was a 92.3 simulcast or stand alone. I think Rush's arrival was prior to the Nationwide purchase of the Columbus Great Trials stations. Matter of fact I know it was. There was little in the way of promotion.

Yes, they built a talk station around Rush with Lee Mirabal mid-days, Alan Colmes for two hours after Rush, Barry Farber after Colmes til 7 and then Bruce Williams.

Lee was replaced by Dr. Joy Browne and Alan and Barry were replaced by John and Ken. Browne was later replaced by Liddy. When Rush was taken by TVN, Liddy's show then ran the full 4 hours and the took a variety of shows from Independent Broadcasters or Talk America until John and Ken.

The point is there was no leftover audience for Rush to leverage his 7 share. It was probably a 1 or 2 share at best. All this was done on a pea shooter signal station. Matter of fact, Rush enjoyed the some of the biggest gains in listenership when he was on 2nd and 3rd tiered signal stations, very similar to the old WCOL or worse in signal. I seroiusly doubt his listeners in great measure would follow him back to the inferior signaled stations today.

Liberal talk (sorry, Progressive Talk) needs a break away host like Rush was in his hey day. So far that host hasn't been broken through.

 

[psonderman]

The term "Liberal Talk" is fine with me. It's the right who tried to make "liberal" a dirty word. True liberals are proud to be so.

The lefty talker stylistically closest to Rush (gregarious, bombastic, etc.) is Ed Schultz , whose audience is indeed increasing. Unlike Rush, he doesn't screen calls. Conservatives are often heard on his program along with the libs. But we're talking just 4 years for Schultz v. Rush's 15 or so, so time will tell if he ever reaches Rush's level.

Compared with Rush, Schultz is less antagonistic, less controversial and less a hothead, so he may never garner Rush's listenership. Talk listeners seem to like controversy and, love a loudmouth. Successful right wing talkers aren't big on facts. Rarely, if ever do they cite sources for data. A typical Rush listener accepts whatever he says without question. They don't seek citations. Rush says it, so they believe.

Righty talkers excite by spreading rumors, citing innuendo, engaging in ad hominem attacks, exploiting fear and reinforcing negative stereotypes. If liberal/progressives refuse to engage in similar tactics, which talk listeners generally seem to relish, they may never be as successful as the righties. Perhaps talk radio as a genre will always seek the lowest common denominator. If, however, there's a backlash, progressives stand to benefit.

I think the deck's stacked against progressive/liberal talk but despite that, politics tend to be fickle as do trends. My bigger concern is over VKO's ability to stay alive long enough to address these issues.

 

[psonderman]

Radio is a dying media and if not for the corporate super groups lobbying in the government, XM and SIRIUS or whatever ...would be mopping radio up...Also, Internet radio will be a force as technology allows Internet radio to stream seamlessly in vehicles and homes.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

As our mass culture has become increasingly voyeuristic, we also seek everything on demand...instant info, instant gratification, instant validation. Active media like computer-based technologies possesses potential to provide on-demand interactive services that passive media (trad broadcast radio/TV) lacks. Even satellite radio promises more interactivity, which in the long run, may propel its future dominance. Economies are indeed more global and ownership corporate.

Yet even as the world "shrinks" and our entertainment choices increase, many feel ever more isolated. I can't help but suspect that the need for local identity, a shared sense of belonging, may resurface. While the current media ownership model may not be well suited to meet such a need, local ownership may be. It could return.

For this to succeed, the current decades-old trend of corporate behemoths running chains of sound-alike stations would need to flounder to the extent that P/L statements would prompt them to divest in groups of local stations in favor of other more profitable, "new" media ventures. Long odds, those.

Yet if by virtue of their cookie-cutter approach, stations appear anachronistic as opposed to other more responsive interactive media, the public response may motivate the bigs to seek greater returns elsewhere. If radio became more affordable, interest in local ownership could be renewed.

...Or not.

 

[del_griffith]

psonderman: I don't think either the right or the left in talk radio have cornered the market on telling the truth. Both take information, and yes sometimes bend and distort even that, to make their point.

I used to think Big Eddie held promise. Yes, I liked that he took calls without screening. But Big Eddie has developed an attitude and not the right kind of attitude. I think of all the hosts with the possible exception of the addition of Kuby who also has radio experience, Big Eddie still holds the most promise. But he's got to channel the anger in a positive & entertaining way and he too often anymore gets stuck in a bitter angry rut. I've only heard a very short blurb with Kuby the other day and haven't listened enough to form an opinion.

Another who holds promise is Steph Miller. But she's got to get rid of the Instant Replay and the ill fitting and often ill time audio drops. Some of the drops fit. Most simply create noise. Stephanie can be fun to listen to.....if the bits stayed out of her way. She can have a political story to tell and not sound angry or bitchy.

 

[JohnboyCrenshaw]

Entertainment, my friends. Entertainment.

JbC

PS: satellite radio will prove to be intermediate technology, like CDs. With a total subscriber base of 12 million, the real-time cume must be less at any point, which means NYC and LA metros have more listeners than both sat services combined. Why subscribe to satellite (with only 120 choices) when mobile WiFi offers infinite choices?

 

[del_griffith]

Entertainment, my friends. Entertainment.

JbC

PS: satellite radio will prove to be intermediate technology, like CDs. With a total subscriber base of 12 million, the real-time cume must be less at any point, which means NYC and LA metros have more listeners than both sat services combined. Why subscribe to satellite (with only 120 choices) when mobile WiFi offers infinite choices?

I've had that same discussion with a friend. WiFi is ultimately where it will end up.

No more class A rimshots, no more severe night time directionals (I could throw a rock and hit 610's towers, yet I'm in a horrible null during night pattern). No more thunderstorm or other electrical noise. No more ingress.

The only problem with WiFi will be how to adress the areas that are weak in celluar coverage such as rural or hilly terrain.

 

[xianbroadcaster]

Entertainment, my friends. Entertainment.

JbC

PS: satellite radio will prove to be intermediate technology, like CDs. With a total subscriber base of 12 million, the real-time cume must be less at any point, which means NYC and LA metros have more listeners than both sat services combined. Why subscribe to satellite (with only 120 choices) when mobile WiFi offers infinite choices?

I totally agree with your PS...I was talking to a friend who creates content for a few of the sat channels and even those who are programming those properties know their time there is limited at WiFi picks up momentum.

 

[Al Timiter]

One thing to remember is that conservative talk radio started with one show...Rush. And it built from there. Air America tried to launch an entire network with relatively unproven hosts. It was pretty much a disaster. Very bad business model.

I have been listening to KPHX in Phoenix on-line and they have a stupendous line-up: Stephanie, Thom Hartman, Randi Rhodes, one after the other. All three of these hosts are finally starting to get noticed. They have very different styles but are very entertaining in their own way.

I have, in the past, been a good predictor of trends and I predict: (drum roll) Liberal or "Progressive" talk will get bigger, especially these three. It's coming. And maybe it won't be as big as conservative talk and it probably won't happen on WVKO. But I really think it will happen. Just my .02 worth. Thanks.

 

[psonderman]

Al, I have to agree. I, too think that Air America's business model was flawed. The timing of their entrance may have had some influence on that when it shouldn't have, because politics aside, it's still business. I liked Al Franken but thought he was terrible on radio--stammering constantly...his side-kick and supporting players helped make him more palatable but often I'd get frustrated listening to him. Much easier to read him than listen to him.

Addressing previous mention of Ed Schultz's "attitude", here, I don't think Schultz has any more "attitude" (how does one quantify "attitude?") than any of the righties--certainly far less than the most popular (pick one). He draws far more moderate and conservative listeners than do his conservative counterparts and has the potential to be an equalizing force in liberal radio, which I feel can't be said for many (if any) of his colleagues.

Thom Hartmann is also very level headed and polite to callers who disagree. Bill Press is as well, to a lesser extent. One thing I like about them is that both Hartmann and Press limit personal attacks more than most talkers of either persuasion. As Maddow, Miller and Schultz appear more often on TV, which is where they've been trending, it will help AAR grow. The TV work helps hype and validate their radio work.

I believe that Air America will ultimately prevail and hope that VKO does as well. At the moment, though, the former seems more likely than the latter.

 

[pbf1]

As Maddow, Miller and Schultz appear more often on TV, which is where they've been trending, it will help AAR grow.

Uh...two of those three aren't even ON Air America...

 

[psonderman]

They're not OWNED by AAR but are indeed heard daily on stations that feature AAR programming and are associated with AAR.

 

[KFodor]

I'm not familiar enough with what preceded Rush's entrance into the Columbus market to tell you why he may have garnered a 7 share back then. I'm willing to bet, however, that he was introduced to central Ohio with more fanfare than what ushered in WVKO's debut. I do vaguely recall dozens of billboards...Clear Channel, if memory serves me. He also had a TV show. That didn't last long, though, did it?

When Rush started in Columbus he was on 1230 WCOL at the time they were simulcasting the oldies format of WCOL fm, the stations were owned by Nationwide. it took a while but the finally they built a talk station around Rush. the changed the calls to WFII (1230 FYI) also the show that followed him was John and Ken out of LA. then later Alan Colmes had the afternoon slot. Nationwide never spent anything on promoting the station. later when Clear Channel bought the station they moved rush to WTVN and changed the talk format to sports

You are "kind of" correct with this. We began 1990 simulcasting WCOL AM/FM, but split the AM at one point to a satellite delivered format called "Kool Gold" (a 1955-1963 based format) on the AM. It worked for exactly one rating book, then died. This was all under the ownership of Great Trails Broadcasting. We added Rush Limbaugh because of popular demand. (We were literally getting requests to carry his program). Now, I'm kind of fuzzy about exactly when 1230 went talk fulltime, but I know it was still under Great Trails ownership, not Nationwide.

We did some billboard and bus advertising for Rush (it was part of the affiliation agreement). Frankly, that was about all GTB could afford at the time. But, Rush delievered. In demo, he was pulling 5's and 6's 25-54...and his daypart 12 plus was about 2.5 to a 3 share. I remember we also carried Barry Farber in the afternoon and, maybe it was Bruce Williams at night. Yes, we did later try adding Alan Colmes, but the numbers weren't there.

We flipped to "1230-FYI" under Nationwide's ownership. With their money, we could afford Imus in the morning....and he pulled some decent numbers, considering the signal limitations. But Rush had already left. 'TVN had contracted him...and we were deserted. But, Rush pulled even bigger number for WTVN. 1230-FYI continued with G. Gordon Liddy Middays...we did John & Ken for a little while in afternoons...even had Tom Leykis at night.

Bottom line was: the conservative shows did OK. The liberal shows less so. It just didn't seem like the liberal audience would come in time to replace the conservative audience when the programs and viewpoints changed.

This is why I have ridiculed the argument about liberal programming failing because it's on "bad sticks". If Rush can pull a 5-6 share in demo on a bad stick...what's wrong with the liberal programs? Attention prog-talkers: develop programming that can pull those numbers on a bad stick...and the good sticks will follow.

Remember...it's content...not politics.

 

[psonderman]

I'm not familiar enough with what preceded Rush's entrance into the Columbus market to tell you why he may have garnered a 7 share back then. I'm willing to bet, however, that he was introduced to central Ohio with more fanfare than what ushered in WVKO's debut. I do vaguely recall dozens of billboards...Clear Channel, if memory serves me.

It doesn't. It wasn't.

We did some billboard and bus advertising for Rush...

-Thanks. Nice to know I'm not TOTALLY nuts.

 

[pbf1]

I'm not familiar enough with what preceded Rush's entrance into the Columbus market to tell you why he may have garnered a 7 share back then. I'm willing to bet, however, that he was introduced to central Ohio with more fanfare than what ushered in WVKO's debut. I do vaguely recall dozens of billboards...Clear Channel, if memory serves me.

It doesn't. It wasn't.

We did some billboard and bus advertising for Rush...

-Thanks. Nice to know I'm not TOTALLY nuts.

That was BEFORE Clear Channel. (No idea whether you're nuts or not.O

 

[psonderman]

That was BEFORE Clear Channel. (No idea whether you're nuts or not.O

My point was re: promotion v. the lack thereof. My erroneous speculation about the origin of the promotion aside, a single Rush billboard would have been more promo than what VKO had coming in last year. And it appears Rush indeed had more than a single billboard. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[del_griffith]

I'm not familiar enough with what preceded Rush's entrance into the Columbus market to tell you why he may have garnered a 7 share back then. I'm willing to bet, however, that he was introduced to central Ohio with more fanfare than what ushered in WVKO's debut. I do vaguely recall dozens of billboards...Clear Channel, if memory serves me. He also had a TV show. That didn't last long, though, did it?

When Rush started in Columbus he was on 1230 WCOL at the time they were simulcasting the oldies format of WCOL fm, the stations were owned by Nationwide. it took a while but the finally they built a talk station around Rush. the changed the calls to WFII (1230 FYI) also the show that followed him was John and Ken out of LA. then later Alan Colmes had the afternoon slot. Nationwide never spent anything on promoting the station. later when Clear Channel bought the station they moved rush to WTVN and changed the talk format to sports

You are "kind of" correct with this. We began 1990 simulcasting WCOL AM/FM, but split the AM at one point to a satellite delivered format called "Kool Gold" (a 1955-1963 based format) on the AM. It worked for exactly one rating book, then died. This was all under the ownership of Great Trails Broadcasting. We added Rush Limbaugh because of popular demand. (We were literally getting requests to carry his program). Now, I'm kind of fuzzy about exactly when 1230 went talk fulltime, but I know it was still under Great Trails ownership, not Nationwide.

We did some billboard and bus advertising for Rush (it was part of the affiliation agreement). Frankly, that was about all GTB could afford at the time. But, Rush delievered. In demo, he was pulling 5's and 6's 25-54...and his daypart 12 plus was about 2.5 to a 3 share. I remember we also carried Barry Farber in the afternoon and, maybe it was Bruce Williams at night. Yes, we did later try adding Alan Colmes, but the numbers weren't there.

We flipped to "1230-FYI" under Nationwide's ownership. With their money, we could afford Imus in the morning....and he pulled some decent numbers, considering the signal limitations. But Rush had already left. 'TVN had contracted him...and we were deserted. But, Rush pulled even bigger number for WTVN. 1230-FYI continued with G. Gordon Liddy Middays...we did John & Ken for a little while in afternoons...even had Tom Leykis at night.

Bottom line was: the conservative shows did OK. The liberal shows less so. It just didn't seem like the liberal audience would come in time to replace the conservative audience when the programs and viewpoints changed.

This is why I have ridiculed the argument about liberal programming failing because it's on "bad sticks". If Rush can pull a 5-6 share in demo on a bad stick...what's wrong with the liberal programs? Attention prog-talkers: develop programming that can pull those numbers on a bad stick...and the good sticks will follow.

Remember...it's content...not politics.

I think Colmes was added the same time you added Farber plus a lady that I think was Joy Browne or Lee Mirabal. They are were part of the old Daynet package. It was probably Browne, because I think she left shortly thereafter to join the WOR network.

If I remember correctly, Daynet was the remanants of the old ABC talkradio network and Joy Browne replaced Dr. Susan Forward when the ABC network started to implode. Colmes and Farber replaced ABC hosts Owen Spann and Michael Jackson.

Yeah, I forgot about the bird fed oldies anchored by Zippo in the Morning.

 

[gabigley1]

Unless VKO finds a way to improve its product, the point of its potential success or failure is moot. Day after day, one hears dead air, miscues, local IDs/PSAs from WCPT (which VKO streams for its network programming) bleeding through, multiple sources on air (cued and live simultaneously aired), talk show guests off mic, bad engineering, etc.


As difficult as it may be, listen to WYTS. Suspend ideological differences and just listen. You’ll instantly see what ELSE is different from VKO. The programming is clean and advertisers abound (the former a result of automation, the latter due to group buying power). We can thump our chests and crow all we want about the advantages of local v. network programming, live bodies v. automation. But when Joe six pack’s radio goes silent, try to explain that to him before he hits the next station preset. Without listeners, there are no advertisers and without advertisers, a commercial station just goes away.

One may dismiss this as mere ramblings of a "disgruntled former employee," and truth be told, I was no sales pro before signing on at WVKO. Still, I want VKO to succeed. We need a progressive voice in central Ohio. But if WVKO can’t fix its consistently shoddy engineering and fails to find a consistent sales direction, despite the best intentions of dedicated people willing to volunteer or work for next to nothing to make it succeed, I fear the station will simply run out of time. And that would be a shame.

Speaking of dead air on WVKO, There was was three hours of from 6:40 PM to
9:30 PM last Thursday during the storms. Then on the following Friday evening
there was one hour of dead air from 5:30 PM to 6:30 PM. Yesterday, Sunday,
there was one hour of dead air from 12:05 PM to 1:00 PM.

During their local Thursday evening broadcast from 6:00 PM to 7:00 PM, the local
WVKO talk show host didn't even mention the severe weather overhead. WBNS-TV
was on the ball as they posted a severe weather warning on their website
withing 10 minutes of the severe thunderstorm warning. This was at 6:25 PM
Thursday evening. The S.T.W. was from 6:15 PM to 7:00 PM on Thursday.
The following Friday morning the WVKO news person said they were off the air because lighting struck their satellite dish.
Someone must have given the news man the wrong information
because they don't have a satellite dish as of yet. All shows are delivered via the
internet and not a satellite dish. He went on the say their engineers were working
on some other problems the storm caused.

There was NO dead air at WYTS during these times WVKO was having periods
of dead air.

 

[gabigley1]

I'm not familiar enough with what preceded Rush's entrance into the Columbus market to tell you why he may have garnered a 7 share back then. I'm willing to bet, however, that he was introduced to central Ohio with more fanfare than what ushered in WVKO's debut. I do vaguely recall dozens of billboards...Clear Channel, if memory serves me. He also had a TV show. That didn't last long, though, did it?

When Rush started in Columbus he was on 1230 WCOL at the time they were simulcasting the oldies format of WCOL fm, the stations were owned by Nationwide. it took a while but the finally they built a talk station around Rush. the changed the calls to WFII (1230 FYI) also the show that followed him was John and Ken out of LA. then later Alan Colmes had the afternoon slot. Nationwide never spent anything on promoting the station. later when Clear Channel bought the station they moved rush to WTVN and changed the talk format to sports

According to this Columbus Dispatch article, WCOL-AM was changed to WFII on
3-15-97. I've included the WFII program line-up from this article and other parts.
Also, WCOL-AM was still programing music back in early November of 1994 when I left. Don't know anything about the format before July of 1994.


IMUS TO JOIN WCOL, HENCEFORTH KNOWN AS WFII
Columbus Dispatch, The (OH) - March 15, 1997
Author: Tim Feran, Dispatch Radio Critic

[/quote]
Monday will mark a beginning and an end for one Columbus radio station.

The beginning: The controversial, syndicated Imus in the Morning, with host Don Imus, will start airing in Columbus.

The end: The show's new station will cease to exist as WCOL-AM, taking on a new identity with new call letters - "News-Talk 1230 FYI" on WFII (1230 AM).

"We decided to go with a totally new concept."

In addition to Imus, the "News-Talk 1230 FYI" weekday schedule will include G. Gordon Liddy from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m.; The John and Ken Show from 3 to 7 p.m.; Bruce Williams from 7 to 9 p.m., with a replay at 4 a.m.; Larry King Live at 9 p.m., with a replay at 2 p.m. the next day; Tom Leykis from 10 p.m. to 2 a.m.; and Jim Bohannon from 2 to 4 a.m.

Program Director Greg Jordan predicted that it would be "the big-surprise talk show of the year."
Caption: Photo
Don Imus
[/quote]

 

[gabigley1]

As far as the post above, WCOL-AM was still programing some music on November 1
of 1993 when they were owned by Great Trails Broadcasting of Dayton. I said
November 1 of 1994 and that is not correct. The Columbus Dispatch said
Nationwide purchased WCOL-AM-FM from G.T.B. of Dayton in September
of 1993. Another article said WCOL-AM did place Billboards up for Rush's show in 1993.

Here is the programing line up of the station from July 1992 according
to a Dispatch story:

WCOL -AM SWITCHES TO TALK FORMAT
Columbus Dispatch, The (OH) - July 17, 1992
Get ready to gab.

(QUOTE)
WCOL ( 1230 AM) changed its format from '50s oldies to TalkRadio 1230 this week.

The station had been airing The Rush Limbaugh Show during the afternoon and had recently added syndicated TalkNet programs in the early morning hours.

For the time being, the new schedule includes '50s rock from 5 to 11 a.m. weekdays. Limbaugh's program has moved to 2 to 5 p.m. Here is the rest of the weekday schedule:

TalkNet (1-5 a.m.); Dr. Joy Brown (11 a.m.-1 p.m.); Dr. Dean Edell (1-2 p.m.); Barry Farber (5-7 p.m.); Bruce Williams (7-10 p.m.); and Myrna Lamb (10 p.m.-1 a.m.).
(QUOTE)