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Songs that didn't get much radio airplay

Songs

You should say so, then. We're not mindreaders. We're just stupid "experts", not Ms. Cleo.


>
> Did I say anything about programming it???? It was just an
> aside comment. Some of you people on this board take
> everything way too literally and seriously.
> I haven't seen so many experts assembled in one spot since
> the last Republican National Convention....
>
 
Star Baby

AND, one of their best songs. RCA never really worked that song as hard as they could have.

> the Guess Who's "Star Baby"* instead of "These Eyes" and "American Woman."
* peaked at #39 in 1974


FOOTNOTE: the name of the board IS "RADIO-Info.com". When song topics are brought up, we silly radio people assume it's about playing them on the radio.
If the poster doesn't intend for it to be discussed as such, they should say so up front so we know.
 
Re: Star Baby

> AND, one of their best songs. RCA never really worked that
> song as hard as they could have.


I agree 100%. It is actually one of my favorite GW songs and the first one I ever heard as a small child thanks to my parents having the 45.


> FOOTNOTE: the name of the board IS "RADIO-Info.com". When
> song topics are brought up, we silly radio people assume
> it's about playing them on the radio.
> If the poster doesn't intend for it to be discussed as such,
> they should say so up front so we know.


Point taken, 'Cat. Like I said, I respect the experience and accomplishments of you, Mr. Eduardo, and the many other regulars on these boards. In re-reading the original post again, it seems like he was wanting a discussion like my original point. Not trying to stir up trouble, I assure you. ;)
 
Re: Songs

"Land Of A Thousand Dances", which only hit #21 but is a '60s
> anthem and has held up through the years) and we'll see who
> wins.
>
> (hint: my station, every day).
>
OC, I would think you meant the late Wilson Pickett's version, not the original Cannibal & the HeadHunters?
PS I still like to hear 98.6 maybe 3x a year :>)
 
Songs

Yes, definitely Wilson Pickett's (generally considered to be the seminal Oldies version of the song and a GREAT classic!)

> >
> OC, I would think you meant the late Wilson Pickett's
> version, not the original Cannibal & the HeadHunters?
> PS I still like to hear 98.6 maybe 3x a year :>)
>
 
Re: Songs

> Actually, my oldies staiotns in Dallas, Houston, San
> Antonioo, McAllen, Houston, Albuquerque, Phoenix, San Diego,
> LA, San Francisco and Fresno uhave libraries of actives and
> fill that are over 1,100 songs. But that is because all the
> titles test, and we moved out of the 60's focus years and
> years ago.

Im guessing when you say "Houston" your dont mean KLDE - no way they have more than 400 titles in their active library....<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies
HyLitRadio.com
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>
 
Re: Songs

> #1 - our research was just as carefully planned and
> qualified
> as anyone else's.

That is a very suspect statement. all outside research companies use similarly outside recruiters. These range from excellent to horrible. A station should be a participant in the recruit process, including knowledge of the method used (how much raw, haow much panel?), the ZIP codes recruited in, whether by phone, intercept or other method, and amount of overrecruiting to compensate for no-shows in traditionally weak show demos.

Of course, the station should be very involved in the recruit specifications. Is listening defined by favoriteness or quarter hours listened a day or week? what is the minimum listening to qualify at P1 or P2 levels. What shared stations are eligable and which are not? Etc.

And, does the station put a person at the check in table to verify the recruits are who they say? Is ID checked? Are there recruit verification 2rope a dope" questions in the test itself?

Unless you do all this and more, you may have a bad test and never know it.


> We both know that we can't force the
> respondent to rate a song the way WE think they should
> any
> more than you or I could tell each other how to vote in
> an
> election. If we could read their minds, then the groups
>
> wouldn't be necessary. No matter how you qualify them,
> you're still at their mercy....


Wrong. It is about verification of sample, verification of recruit and building of the recruit specs.

> #2 - I'm only talking about Cleveland for the sake of this
> discussion. I wouldn't dream of programming the same
> way
> in another market without thorough research first.

I find the places I need research the most are places I am familiar with. I would not make a move in a "familiar" market without guidance as the familiarity breeds a sense of 2I already know what to do" that is almost always wrong.

> #3 - My feelings and those of many fellow broadcasters here
> come
> from the fact that in recent years, too many corporate
> "whiz
> kids" have come here and ultimately try to " fix what
> ain't
> broke". We all know that any format will eventually die
> out
> as listeners age. But there's no reason that, put
> together
> properly, you can't get maximum longevity and bucks out
> of
> it. There's too much knee jerk reaction with a tendency
> to
> tamper with things or dump formats too quickly.

Even P&G has found out that we live in an age of disposable products. Got a ZIP drive? There are useful disposable formats, like Jammin' Oldies that work for a few years and move on. In clusters, many use a market maturation model where you try to have at least a one station in rapid growth, one in sustained growth, and a couple in maturation or decline, and you balance out the startup costs of the conversion of decliners with the gains from the growth-mode ones. Igt is about averages, not individual stations.
 
Re: Songs

> > Actually, my oldies staiotns in Dallas, Houston, San
> > Antonioo, McAllen, Houston, Albuquerque, Phoenix, San
> Diego,
> > LA, San Francisco and Fresno uhave libraries of actives
> and
> > fill that are over 1,100 songs. But that is because all
> the
> > titles test, and we moved out of the 60's focus years and
> > years ago.
>
> Im guessing when you say "Houston" your dont mean KLDE - no
> way they have more than 400 titles in their active
> library....

KOVE.
>
 
Re: Songs

> > > Actually, my oldies staiotns in Dallas, Houston, San
> > > Antonio, McAllen, Houston, Albuquerque, Phoenix, San
> > Diego,LA, San Francisco and Fresno have libraries of actives
> > and fill that are over 1,100 songs. But that is because all
> > the titles test, and we moved out of the 60's focus years
> and years ago.
> >
> > Im guessing when you say "Houston" your dont mean KLDE -
> no way they have more than 400 titles in their active library....
>
> KOVE. ---- NOT IN ENGLISH, GANG--- HAHA
> >
>
David just being a nitpicker here, but why do you not mention that your "oldies stations" you refer to in the current sense are NOT English language. To me this "Oldies" board refers to English language oldies stations.
This is not the first time you have mentioned your "oldies stations".... People who don't know you as well as the regulars here might infer that when you refer to -- "my oldies stations" those stations are 60's-70's American Top 40 style playlist stations. How many here really know any of the artists your "oldies stations" play anyway???
If you ARE affiliated with English language oldies stations, can you differentiate which ones? My guess is the number of those stations equals zero.
 
Re: Songs

> David just being a nitpicker here, but why do you not
> mention that your "oldies stations" you refer to in the
> current sense are NOT English language.

KOVE _is_ an oldies station, however.

Your point is somewhat valid, but formats are pretty much language independent. I have done Classic Rock in Argentina, and it behaves just like the same format in the US. I have even consulted on a CHR in Pakistan, and it behaves just like any other CHR.

> To me this "Oldies"
> board refers to English language oldies stations.
> This is not the first time you have mentioned your "oldies
> stations".... People who don't know you as well as the
> regulars here might infer that when you refer to -- "my
> oldies stations" those stations are 60's-70's American Top
> 40 style playlist stations.

And that is how we started 6 years ago in LA, and we moved gradually to a multi-decade mix that starts in the very late 60's and goes all the way into the 90's. As we did this, share increased and average age moved into the sales demos (currently #5 25-54 in LA total market).

The mechanics are virtually identical to what I think a good oldies station is... like WMJI or KOOL.

> How many here really know any
> of the artists your "oldies stations" play anyway???

The point is that oldies stations have a couple of things in common: they play "memory songs" and have a somewhat traditional old-CHR type execution. The

> If you ARE affiliated with English language oldies stations,
> can you differentiate which ones? My guess is the number of
> those stations equals zero.

I do not work with any now, but have been involved with projects in markets up to Washington DC with traditional, 60's based English oldies stations... which is why I can say that there is no difference in the listener behaviour other than langauge.

In other words, Spanish is a language and not a format. You can havd literally every format in every language.
>
 
Culture

> > David just being a nitpicker here, but why do you not
> > mention that your "oldies stations" you refer to in the
> > current sense are NOT English language.
>
> KOVE _is_ an oldies station, however.
>
> Your point is somewhat valid, but formats are pretty much
> language independent. I have done Classic Rock in Argentina,
> and it behaves just like the same format in the US. I have
> even consulted on a CHR in Pakistan, and it behaves just
> like any other CHR.
>

I appreciate the recognition of my valid point.
Who on this particular board besides you ever talks about a station in Argentina or Pakistan? You're smart enough recognize a rhetorical question.
>
> And that is how we started 6 years ago in LA, and we moved
> gradually to a multi-decade mix that starts in the very late
> 60's and goes all the way into the 90's. As we did this,
> share increased and average age moved into the sales demos
> (currently #5 25-54 in LA total market).

Again, how many times has Recuerdo been mentioned in the context of this particular board?

>
> The point is that oldies stations have a couple of things in
> common: they play "memory songs" and have a somewhat
> traditional old-CHR type execution.

> I do not work with any now, but have been involved with
> projects in markets up to Washington DC with traditional,
> 60's based English oldies stations... which is why I can say
> that there is no difference in the listener behaviour other
> than language.
>

My point, David, was that you are well respected in the industry and this board, so it appears to me that you do not have to embellish your record to prove to all that you know what you are talking about. It would better serve newer posters here if you mentioned that you work with Spanish language oldies stations, but that you also have extensive experience in English language radio stations programming oldies of the 50s, 60s and 70s.

After re-reading your earlier post and this one, I see your point about oldies generating "memories" but also relevancy to their listeners' lives today. However, don't you think CULTURE also has an impact on what works? Culture and experience of Hispanics living in America but born elsewhere I would think differs from the typical American-born baby-boomer's (oldies audience) experiences. <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by SuperRadioFan on 03/13/06 11:34 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Songs...KLDE

KLDE was a trailblazer in oldies radio mediocrity. They led with their 400 song playlist and good oldies stations from all over the land followed them down the road. Now we have a nation of mediocre oldies stations with gaps in places like New York City and Baltimore.

> > Actually, my oldies staiotns in Dallas, Houston, San
> > Antonioo, McAllen, Houston, Albuquerque, Phoenix, San
> Diego,
> > LA, San Francisco and Fresno uhave libraries of actives
> and
> > fill that are over 1,100 songs. But that is because all
> the
> > titles test, and we moved out of the 60's focus years and
> > years ago.
>
> Im guessing when you say "Houston" your dont mean KLDE - no
> way they have more than 400 titles in their active
> library....
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
KLDE

Totally right. They've NEVER been better than almost-average. And why Cox invests almost nothing in the station yet stays with the format-- seems sort of a waste of a perfectly good signal.

> KLDE was a trailblazer in oldies radio mediocrity. They led
> with their 400 song playlist and good oldies stations from
> all over the land followed them down the road. Now we have
> a nation of mediocre oldies stations with gaps in places
> like New York City and Baltimore.
 
Seems like I heard "Keep the Fire" for a lot longer than three weeks..maybe it did better on the A/C chart. I can remember the disco mix station in Tampa playing it while I was in Sarasota (I think they went by Supermix 96).<P ID="signature">______________
"Your right to know supersedes your right to exist"..Gary Burbank</P>
 
Re: Songs

"Shiloh" by Neil Diamond peaked, IIRC somehwhere in the mid 30s but is an oldies staple today.<P ID="signature">______________
"Your right to know supersedes your right to exist"..Gary Burbank</P>
 
Re: Culture

>
> Again, how many times has Recuerdo been mentioned in the
> context of this particular board?

Hispanic radio tends to be ignored on all the boards, even LA where you have 3 Spanish-language stations in the top 5, 25-54. Or on the chicago board, where Kalle, the reggaetón station, severerely impacted B-96. It is sort of "it's Spanish so it is not part of the market." Yet there are only 100 shares anywhere, and if Spanish takes over 30 18-34 shares in LA, that is very significant.

> My point, David, was that you are well respected in the
> industry and this board, so it appears to me that you do not
> have to embellish your record to prove to all that you know
> what you are talking about. It would better serve newer
> posters here if you mentioned that you work with Spanish
> language oldies stations, but that you also have extensive
> experience in English language radio stations programming
> oldies of the 50s, 60s and 70s.

I really don't have a lot of experience comapared with 43 years in Spanish langauge radio. But I did one of the first 4 or 5 FM CHRs in 1972, and have done English general market enough to relate. right now, we have English stations in Houston (Party), San Antonio (The Beat) and Albuquerque (Kiss, B, Coyote) and can put good radio practices to use in any language
>
> After re-reading your earlier post and this one, I see your
> point about oldies generating "memories" but also relevancy
> to their listeners' lives today. However, don't you think
> CULTURE also has an impact on what works? Culture and
> experience of Hispanics living in America but born elsewhere
> I would think differs from the typical American-born
> baby-boomer's (oldies audience) experiences.

Absolutely, there is a lot in similar. But also, the '57 Chevy and "60's decade" stuff did not exist in Latin America. But the idea of speaking to the core is the same.

Last night I saw a Fidelity Investments ad on TV that used psychodelic flowers and Inagaddadavida (never could spell that) as the music track. It related to preretirement people, I am quite sure... it taked to who they were and who they are and where they are today. That is the magic of oldies.
>
 
Re: Songs...KLDE

> KLDE was a trailblazer in oldies radio mediocrity. They led
> with their 400 song playlist and good oldies stations from
> all over the land followed them down the road. Now we have
> a nation of mediocre oldies stations with gaps in places
> like New York City and Baltimore.

Eh, KLDE never did light my fire - DJ's were good, but the playlist was verry vanilla. Im a R&B guy, and hearing white bread songs over and over again drove me nuts. So glad to have radio with some SOUL here in Jersey.....<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies
HyLitRadio.com
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>
 
Re: KLDE

> Totally right. They've NEVER been better than
> almost-average. And why Cox invests almost nothing in the
> station yet stays with the format-- seems sort of a waste of
> a perfectly good signal.

Its now Houstons 107.5 KLDE, Greatest Hits Of The 60's & 70's - its morphed into a classic hits that plays Motown and some soul tunes.<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies
HyLitRadio.com
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>
 
Re: KLDE

I remember 1230 K-NUZ when they played oldies in the early nineties. They were everything that KLDE was not. They played wonderful songs. This is not my imagination, I recorded an aircheck of KNUZ.

Too bad, KNUZ had a terrible signal.





> Totally right. They've NEVER been better than
> almost-average. And why Cox invests almost nothing in the
> station yet stays with the format-- seems sort of a waste of
> a perfectly good signal.
>
> > KLDE was a trailblazer in oldies radio mediocrity. They
> led
> > with their 400 song playlist and good oldies stations from
>
> > all over the land followed them down the road. Now we
> have
> > a nation of mediocre oldies stations with gaps in places
> > like New York City and Baltimore.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
> Seems like I heard "Keep the Fire" for a lot longer than
> three weeks..maybe it did better on the A/C chart. I can
> remember the disco mix station in Tampa playing it while I
> was in Sarasota (I think they went by Supermix 96).

I recall them being "96 Fever" for a while.
 
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