Songs That Don't Belong On (Certain) Stations

[mistermicrophone]

It's happening down here in Hartford. LITE 100.5 just started playing "NO ONE" by Alicia Keys. It's bad enuff they play the song ad nauseum on sister station hip-hop formatted HOT 93.7 and on Clear Channel's KISS 95.7 and KC 101.3 now LITE 100.5 is playing it twice a day everyday.

But how much cume is LITE sharing with Hot, KC101 or KISS?? Maybe a little on the younger end with KISS and/or KC101, but minimal at best and certainly not their P1's. The song is being worked at AC and Hot AC and being played on such stations...I'm sure TIC is playing it, too.

 

[mistermicrophone]

Mix 98-5 is supposed to be a pop music station, yet they play a few songs which belong strictly on rock radio ONLY: Back In Black, For Those About To Rock, and of course You Shook Me All Night Long (all Pop Music flops, but all WAAF/WHJY-type Rock Radio hits). The only CHRs playing these songs back in the day were those which were rock/40s like PJ-105 (WWLI today) and F-105 (WROR today), the latter which played Stairway To Heaven every night at 10 p.m. - decidedly not what a straight-ahead pop station would do (I have a lot of rockheads in my family, many who lived in the East Bumbleep type of boondock suburbs).

Fiirst of all, Mix doesn't play For Those About To Rock and only plays Back In Black during the Back to the 80's Friday night show. Second, it doesn't matter what stations played them "back in the day", it matters if they appeal to the demo of a station today. A song like You Shook Me All Night Long is a song that can cross format boundries because of it's mass appeal.

Brother station WBCN is just as bad: they're supposed to be playing alternative rock (aka new wave), yet they play Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, Skynyrd, Hendrix and AC/DC, all which are as new wave as I am non-white (and I'm not - not, as Seinfeld goes, that there's anything wrong with that). This, of course, leads me to assume that 'FNX, 'BOS, and other alt-rockers will go the Van Halen/Guns'N'Roses route. (I listen to WEEI and WRKO these days - music s*cks big time now!)

Just because a station's format is defined by industry standards, that doesn't mean they can ONLY play songs from the format. WBCN only plays those songs once or twice a week as spice and I am sure the older end of the demo doesn't mind hearing them on BCN.

As for Kiss 108, anything that's rock/heavy metal! But Richie Balsbaugh himself chose the rock route back in 1994 when he closed on Jam'n and kept it as gangsta rap instead of taking the Jam'n music on Kiss and bringing back Zoo 94 and putting rock/40 PD John Ivey (WRVW, WPXY were both rock/40s under his direction) there instead of at Kiss.

What "heavy metal" songs are played on KISS 108? What about current CHR hits that are rock in nature? Should the market's CHR ignore them?

And what do you mean by "rock route"????? They play hits, plain and simple. For as much as you wish it was different, the direction of KISS and JAMN has worked out quite well.

By the way, look at how Ivey is programming KIIS/LA right now...not so "rock/40". Good programmers can program different formats and directions within those formats.

 

[BoscoGoldBear]

What "heavy metal" songs are played on KISS 108?

Shadow Of The Day - Linkin Park (top 10 pop and metal)
It's Not Over - Chris Daughtry (#1 pop, top 5 metal)
Rockstar - Nickelback (top 10 pop and metal)
Never Too Late - Three Days Grace (top 15 pop, #1 metal)
Paralyzer - Finger Eleven (top 5 pop, the likely #1 metal hit of last year - Seether and Sixx AM are still on the metal chart)

BTW, "active rock" is the politically correct name for heavy metal, and WAAF, listed as active rock, is a long-time headbanger station

 

[BoscoGoldBear]

While I'm at it, there are certain songs which WROR, as a classic rock station, should NEVER play under ANY circumstances lest they be attacked by WZLX OTA WCOZ-style. (I think most of you know which direction I'm headed in!)

Brickhouse - The Commodores (love the song, but NOT while listening to classic rock)
Get Down Tonight - KC & the Sunshine Band (ditto)
Stayin' Alive - The Bee Gees (double ditto)
any other disco classics as well

If WZLX is smart enough to play its cards right, they go on the air saying (in-between songs): "WZLX - all classic rock AND no disco," and play the next song. Face it, 'COZ publicizing that they were the anti-disco station was THE reason why they were #1 in the ratings (2 - or 3, if you count the "re-release of "Dirty Deeds" - hot AC/DC LPs helped considerably as well - once the AC/DC fever died off, so did 'COZ). After a few bad ratings books at 'ZLX's expense, maybe 'ROR will be shamed into laying off the disco tunes like any other normal classic rocker, just like 'BCN did when they were crushed by 'COZ for playing an occasional disco song or two. If this happens, Oldies 103 should just give the BTO, Skynyrd and Led Zep tunes back to 'ZLX and open its airwaves for more disco classics IMHO.

 

[NSPUNX]

BTW, "active rock" is the politically correct name for heavy metal, and WAAF, listed as active rock, is a long-time headbanger station

Recently WAAF has been imaging themselves as playing "All the best rock" or "Everything That Rocks" or something like that and making thier playlist more similar to WBCN. This I think is another bad move. There is already a WBCN we don't need another. WAAF should be filling the hole that 'BCN and 'FNX arent filling which is more metal and "harder" rock. Playing the chilli peppers and Led Zeplin like 'BCN seems like a bad move to me. Why can't they do SOMETHING original down there? They see that BCN is the top rated rock station so they have to try and copy them instead of coming up with a reason for people to listen to 'AAF over 'BCN? At least it's made for some funny liners on 'BCN "We don't have to try to be 'BCN we ARE 'BCN!)

 

[mistermicrophone]

What "heavy metal" songs are played on KISS 108?

Shadow Of The Day - Linkin Park (top 10 pop and metal)
It's Not Over - Chris Daughtry (#1 pop, top 5 metal)
Rockstar - Nickelback (top 10 pop and metal)
Never Too Late - Three Days Grace (top 15 pop, #1 metal)
Paralyzer - Finger Eleven (top 5 pop, the likely #1 metal hit of last year - Seether and Sixx AM are still on the metal chart)

BTW, "active rock" is the politically correct name for heavy metal, and WAAF, listed as active rock, is a long-time headbanger station

wow...WAAF has been a long-time headbanger station...thanks...I would have never known that. If you want to refer to "active rock" as heavy metal, then fine...but ask a true "metal head" if Daughtry is heavy metal and see what their response is!!

Anyway, the ridiculousness of your argument is written in your own response...all those "heavy metal" songs are also, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, CHR hits!?! So, they are playing POP hits as a CHR, regardless of sonic texture...go effin' figure!?! Why shouldn't KISS 108 play the hits?

By the way, WROR is a Classic Hits station, NOT a Classic Rock. For someone who is stuck on stations going by the format (like your WEAK argument for BCN playing Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc.), you may not realize there is a difference between the two.

 

[Retro]

I'm sorry but WHEN was the last time Mix played "For Those About To Rock"? Maybe during the specialty show(s), but not in rotation as a gold or anything.

I have no clue what you mean by this, since Mix has never to the best of my knowledge played this track at all, nor should they either.

 

[Retro]

What "heavy metal" songs are played on KISS 108?

Shadow Of The Day - Linkin Park (top 10 pop and metal)
It's Not Over - Chris Daughtry (#1 pop, top 5 metal)
Rockstar - Nickelback (top 10 pop and metal)
Never Too Late - Three Days Grace (top 15 pop, #1 metal)
Paralyzer - Finger Eleven (top 5 pop, the likely #1 metal hit of last year - Seether and Sixx AM are still on the metal chart)

BTW, "active rock" is the politically correct name for heavy metal, and WAAF, listed as active rock, is a long-time headbanger station

None of those qualify as metal.

 

[Retro]

All of this coming from the same people that complain stations are playing the same 300 songs over and over again.
They add a little variety and complain about that!

With the exception of a few radio geeks, I can't imagine any listener laying awake at night wondering why their favorite station played Cheap Trick or the B-52's.

OMG, high gas prices, property taxes on the rise, kids need braces, my radio station played I Want You to Want Me.

In the words of Rick Nelson, "You can't please everyone, so you gots to please yourself."

Now I would like variety but "within the format!" If WFNX can play Heaven 17, why don't they play others that made them big back in the day as well, without breaking format by playing Cheap Trick instead? And for the record, I do like the Cheap Trick song.

Kinda reminds me of something that 'FNX did back in '86 for a make it or break it, or rate at 8. Not sure if they were calling it that or not yet, but I digress.

The station attempted to add Bruce Springsteen's live version of "War" to the station at the time, but the DJ at the time said "now, you really do not like this record." and then went on to say "maybe you do like this record, but don't want to hear it on this station!" The record ended up being voted down by 2 to 1.

Nuff said.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

While I'm at it, there are certain songs which WROR, as a classic rock station...

WROR is not a classic rock station, it's a classic hits station, and despite that you want to think that they're the same formats, they're not.

Classic rock = mainly guitar-oriented rock hits of the era, and some of the more popular FM AOR album tracks of the era. Includes some harder rock tracks than a classic hits station would play.

Classic hits = lighter pop hits of the classic rock genre with some of the major soul/R&B/disco hits and major AC hits (singer/songwriter, ballads, etc...) of the era. A cross-section of the biggest pop hit singles of the era from the mainstream genres that still test well today. Basically an updated oldies station of a later era than traditional oldies stations.

Brickhouse - The Commodores (love the song, but NOT while listening to classic rock)
Get Down Tonight - KC & the Sunshine Band (ditto)
Stayin' Alive - The Bee Gees (double ditto)
any other disco classics as well

If you don't want to hear those songs on a classic rock station, then listen to the classic rock station (WZLX). They don't play them. Stop listening to the classic hits station (WROR) and pretending that it's a classic rock station.

If WZLX is smart enough to play its cards right, they go on the air saying (in-between songs): "WZLX - all classic rock AND no disco," and play the next song. Face it, 'COZ publicizing that they were the anti-disco station was THE reason why they were #1 in the ratings (2 - or 3, if you count the "re-release of "Dirty Deeds" - hot AC/DC LPs helped considerably as well - once the AC/DC fever died off, so did 'COZ).

You're talking about what was happening 30 years ago, when disco was still a fairly new genre that was percieved by rockers as infiltrating their airwaves, and strictly rock stations had to assure their listeners that they wouldn't hear disco there. That's not necessary nowadays. Listeners can tell the difference between a classic rock station (WZLX, no R&B/disco, some harder rock) and a classic hits station (WROR, includes some R&B/disco, lighter rock) nowadays.

After a few bad ratings books at 'ZLX's expense, maybe 'ROR will be shamed into laying off the disco tunes like any other normal classic rocker...

Again, WROR is not a classic rock station, it's a classic hits station.

Also, WROR has been beating (or equaling) WZLX in the 12+ for a few years now. WROR is no longer competing with WZLX. They shifted their focus a few years ago to competing with WODS for a piece of their larger pie, as well as niching themselves between WODS and WZLX as a classic hits station to build their own audience.

 

[Neanderpaul]

Shadow Of The Day - Linkin Park (top 10 pop and metal)
It's Not Over - Chris Daughtry (#1 pop, top 5 metal)
Rockstar - Nickelback (top 10 pop and metal)
Never Too Late - Three Days Grace (top 15 pop, #1 metal)
Paralyzer - Finger Eleven (top 5 pop, the likely #1 metal hit of last year - Seether and Sixx AM are still on the metal chart)

BTW, "active rock" is the politically correct name for heavy metal, and WAAF, listed as active rock, is a long-time headbanger station

Um....there's a HUGE difference between Active Rock and "Metal." This is something I'm very well-versed in.

Metal Radio plays things like Warbringer, 5 Finger Death Punch, Cradle Of Filth, and Children Of Bodom. The closest thing to "mainstream' that Metal Radio gets might be Slipknot. Although right now, you can find new music from Whitesnake receiving Metal airplay. Which is more in tribute to their being heritage "hair metal." Both the station I currently work for, and WAAF have nationally recognized nightly Metal shows that include these artists among others. Occasionally, you will see somewhat mainstream bands like Disturbed, or System Of A Down show up on Metal Radio. And, some stations think Godsmack is Metal.

None of the listed songs were ever on the "Metal" charts. None of those bands are considered "Metal" by any programmer in America. Sorry to tell you. The only band that got lumped in with the "rap metal" crew, was Linkin Park, based solely upon "One Step Closer." All of their hits have been pop/crossovers. Metal Radio didn't touch them.

Just as KISS 108 playing Nickelback, AC/DC, Daughtry & Linkin Park doesn't make them a Rock station.

This is a perfect example of people opining on formatics they're just not educated in.

There are Metal charts specific to the specialty airplay. They are unique and distinctive from Active Rock, and can be found at FMQB.com.

Again, there is a difference.

 

[Neanderpaul]

once the AC/DC fever died off...

That hasn't happened. AC/DC have quietly become the 4th best-selling Rock band of all time.

Who knew?

Their new CD is one of the most anxiously awaited Rock records of the year.

 

[NSPUNX]

"....FIRE!...."

 

[BoscoGoldBear]

once the AC/DC fever died off...

That hasn't happened. AC/DC have quietly become the 4th best-selling Rock band of all time.

Who knew?

That said, none of the AC/DC LPs/CDs since "For Those About To Rock" have had either the sales or airplay power of their previous 3 (4 if you count the 1981 re-release of "Dirty Deeds") LPs, and most of the harder AOR stations' ratings showed that drop off (both of the most notorious AORs of that era, WCOZ and WLLZ/Detroit, died by 1985). WBCN was #1 over a longer period of time (1984 to 1988 with interruptions by other stations like Kiss, WBZ and WRKO) than 'COZ was by broadening its rock playlist to more than just the "AC/DC teens." It wasn't until 1990 that AC/DC was anywhere near that huge again ("MoneyTalks" - technically their biggest hit at #22 - and "Thunderstruck", the latter far more memorable and heard in NFL stadiums all across America - OK, the one in Foxboro).

That having been said, AC/DC has no business being heard OUTSIDE of rock/classic rock radio (i.e. Mix, Kiss, and with Magic already playing Bon Jovi, Nickelback and Kid Rock, they're headed down that VH-GNR-AC/DC route fast - it's only a matter of which station between Magic and 'BOS reaches that route first). Like I said, I listen mostly to 'EEI and Howie on 'RKO these days.

 

[Neanderpaul]

That said, none of the AC/DC LPs/CDs since "For Those About To Rock" have had either the sales or airplay power of their previous 3

Absolutely untrue.

AC/DC has sold over 70 million, 19 Platinum albums. They are the 10th best-selling band in history. Not rock...all music. Ahead of such luminaries as: The Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, Madonna, and Michael Jackson (among so many others). Most of whom have received significantly more CHR/Top 40 airplay than AC/DC.

"Flick Of The Switch" was a top 15 album in 1985
"Who Made Who" sold a million more than "For Those About To Rock"
"Blow Up Your Video" was top 12 in 1988
"The Razor's Edge" was #2 in 1990...sold 5 million which is a million more than "For Those About To Rock"
"Ballbreaker" was #4 in 1995...had 3 top 25 singles
"Stiff Upper Lip" was #7 in 2000...4 top 25 singles.
They sold 3 million copies of their Live CD from 1992
6 million copies of "Live At Donnington" video.
5 Million copies of their "Family Jewels" 2 DVD box set.
5 Million copies of their "Plug Me In" 4 DVD box set


To hear you tell it, AC/DC disappeared after 1981. The band has not only survived, but thrived during a time of complete upheaval in the chart methodology, and had 3 top ten albums during the grunge-era.

I agree that they have no business (outside of "You Shook Me All Night Long") on top 40 radio. But, your assertion of their irrelevance post "For Those About To Rock" is just factually incorrect.

"Who Made Who" is one of the most played songs in Rock radio today. Along with the aforementioned "Thunderstruck"

I know what point you're trying to make. But, your ignorance on this band negates said point by its sheer inaccuracy.

AC/DC of any Rock band, probably are more deserving of top 40 airplay based upon sheer popularity.

 

[WBIMDJ]

Neanderpaul is like a God of information. lol
And I thought I was crazy about music.. ;D

 

[mistermicrophone]

That having been said, AC/DC has no business being heard OUTSIDE of rock/classic rock radio (i.e. Mix, Kiss, and with Magic already playing Bon Jovi, Nickelback and Kid Rock, they're headed down that VH-GNR-AC/DC route fast - it's only a matter of which station between Magic and 'BOS reaches that route first).
.

Yeah, Magic plays Bon Jovi "You Want To Make A Memory" & "Who Says You Can't Go Home" (both Mainstream AC hits), Kid Rock "Picture" (another Mainstream AC hit) & Nickelback "Far Away" & "Photograph" (yet AGAIN, both Mainstream AC hits). What's the beef with those records?

As for AC/DC, the only song getting played on Mix or KISS (and it's actually been a while since KISS played it) is You Shook Me All Night Long. This is a song that crosses to the appeal of women, particularly the late 30-somethings. That's a far cry form going down the "rock route" fast. What's your beef with a station playing a song that their demo likes??

 

[ssetta]

I made a whole thread awhile back about WMJX playing "Umbrella." I seriously don't think that belongs there. I also remember being just as shocked when hearing "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It" on WBMX for the first time a few years ago.

 

[BoscoGoldBear]

I also remember being just as shocked when hearing "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It" on WBMX for the first time a few years ago.

That's something you'd hear on 'ROR here long before Tampa's so called-classic hits WCOF will play. WCOF and co-owned classic rock WHPT share about 80-90% of the same music (under the same Cox ownership). The only difference is that you'd hear Billy Joel, Elton John and artists similar to them on 'COF (once or twice an hour) while Ozzy/Black Sabbath, Def Leppard, Guns'N'Roses and similar artists are on 'HPT, while Aero, Eagles, Floyd, Tom Petty, Skynyrd, AC/DC, Led Zep, Beatles, Stones, Hendrix and others are on both stations.

To make matters more confusing, most of these same artists are also on co-owned WPOI which, as an "80s" station, is also under the classic rock umbrella. (It should be of note that most industry experts also put classic hits under the classic rock umbrella.) And if things aren't confusing enough, Cox also owns an alt-rocker WSUN. Using the Boston methodology, that means that WSUN is mostly Ozzy, VH, Aero, Led Zep, Hendrix, Skynyrd, Eagles, etc.

I also asked about CBS-owned WRBQ, which was also put under the same classic rock umbrella. My aunt down there (who's only 5 years older than me and HATES DISCO) won't touch Q-105 with a 30 foot pole, which should tell you everything you need to know.

I just wish that these industry guys wouldn't put all gold based stations under the classic rock umbrella because that drives people who don't like "all-Led Zeppelin-all-the-time" away IMHO!

Jusy my $0.02 worth!

 

[Eli Polonsky]

It should be of note that most industry experts also put classic hits under the classic rock umbrella.

Classic hits may have been considered similar to classic rock more than a few years ago (if that's what you mean by an "umbrella"), but they are currently known as two very different formats that happen to have a fair amount of crossover when it comes to major rock hits of the late '60s, '70s and '80s.

However, classic hits is now known very well by "the industry" as a format that may also play disco, soul/R&B, and light pop hits of the era, which they well know that classic rock doesn't play.

This has become recognized because many oldies stations are being updated to classic hits stations, but not to classic rock stations. Just as oldies stations played both rock and soul hits, classic hits stations play rock, R&B/soul, and disco hits. Classic hits stations are the evolution of oldies stations as they try to reach a somewhat younger demo, and they play a cross-section of hits like oldies stations did. Classic rock stations have always been strictly rock, and continue to be.

Despite how much you don't want to believe that classic rock and classic hits are two different formats, or how much you want to believe that "the industry" doesn't consider them to be different formats, you're incorrect. They're two distinctly different formats, and are now recognized as such by Arbitron and the rest of "the industry".

I just wish that these industry guys wouldn't put all gold based stations under the classic rock umbrella...

They don't. It's only happening in your own mind.