Sony XDR-F1HD

[KB1OKL]

Very quickly as I'm off to work:
My shiny new Sony XDR-F1HD has been scanning up and down vainly looking for HD stations on FM now for at least a half an hour. I got a few at about 9 am this morning but now at about noon time, none to be found. I live approx 35 miles from Boston and 5 miles from Worcester. I have moved the antenna all over the place including tacking it on the wall and right now I get nothing.
AM is a complete bomb, I even hooked up my CC crane Twin Coil ferrite antenna to it and got nothing at all even though I live less than 10 miles from WTAG 580's towers a 5KW station which booms in here, WBZ had the HD light blinking which means the tuner detected an HD station but it is too weak to lock on. I live about 40 miles from this 50KW station's towers in Hull.
Incidentally it does have great FM analog reception but sounds exactly like my Marantz's of course but would be good for an FM DXer which I'm not. I have it going through the Marantz so i can A-B them. This morning I did notice that the frequency response of HD is better than analog, a little more lows and highs and I actually did find a station that I like WZLX's HD-2 channel, it was all electric blues this morning but it was dropping out. Buying this did not show me anything more than I learned from an in store demonstration a few months ago. I did notice some weird sounding artifacts on WGBH 89.7's HD-2 channel this morning with solo piano music, it was horrible, almost like the piano's notes were bending down. More later on.

 

[KB1OKL]

Well i was able to get WZLX 100.7 tonight from Boston, both their HD-1 and HD-2 channels. This was all I could get with the stock antenna irregardless of where I put it. On AM at night again i got zip. I shut it off and turned on my Meduci AMX-2000, irregardless of what a small a small minority of one here say about them, this thing works much better and sounds much better than the IBOC FM especially with it's annoying drop outs. I hate to sound like a broken record here but it's more and more obvious why they are not and never will sell. They just aren't that sensitive, even this one which at this time is supposed to be the best or at least the most sensitive. I'm listening to CHWO AM 740 Canada and it sounds great on the Meduci, I'm sick of fussing with the Sony, drop outs etc. not worth the fuss. I just want to sit here and listen to the radio with fidelity and I get that from the Meduci., no it's not stereo but it sounds nice and airy and is clear, there are no artifacts in this sound, no drop outs, maybe a few fades but it never drops to nothing, and the kicker is Toronto is approx 430 miles from Boston. WTAG is less than 10 miles away and doesn't lock, WBZ is a 50 KW AMer about 40 miles away and doesn't lock in. WGBH FM is about 40 miles away and doesn't lock. WSRS is about 10 miles and doesn't lock, 98.5 is also approx 40 miles and doesn't lock WZLX is also from Boston and does lock in at certain times of the day with drop outs. Yup great technology, glad I bought it.
Any one who touts this technology is either making money from it in some way or making money from it in some way or, etc. etc. etc..

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

It sounds like your Sony is a dud. (You may remember that Mike Walker had to return his first one too). Try to get it exchanged. Even where you are, over that terrain, you should have had better results.

 

[KB1OKL]

It sounds like your Sony is a dud. (You may remember that Mike Walker had to return his first one too). Try to get it exchanged. Even where you are, over that terrain, you should have had better results.

Yes I should especially considering there are several HD stations right in Worcester which is not very far from me, not sure where the towers are for them but probably within the 10-15 mile range, the only thing is analog reception is very good. I'm sitting here today and I'm getting two stations WZLX 100.7 which keeps dropping out and WAAF 107.3 which I'm not really that crazy about. I have a computer right in front of me which has live 365 and XM satellite on it, this is all going through the same system as the Sony so it sounds just as good if not better and I ask myself do I want to listen to two lousy stations which keep dropping out or do I want to listen to hundreds of stations which are always there and never drop out and pay a small monthly fee? It's a no brainer for me.
But I am going to return it and try another I do remember Mike having to return his, but I have a feeling it's not the radio.

 

[clouseau]

It sounds like your Sony is a dud. (You may remember that Mike Walker had to return his first one too). Try to get it exchanged. Even where you are, over that terrain, you should have had better results.

Yes I should especially considering there are several HD stations right in Worcester which is not very far from me, not sure where the towers are for them but probably within the 10-15 mile range, the only thing is analog reception is very good. I'm sitting here today and I'm getting two stations WZLX 100.7 which keeps dropping out and WAAF 107.3 which I'm not really that crazy about. I have a computer right in front of me which has live 365 and XM satellite on it, this is all going through the same system as the Sony so it sounds just as good if not better and I ask myself do I want to listen to two lousy stations which keep dropping out or do I want to listen to hundreds of stations which are always there and never drop out and pay a small monthly fee? It's a no brainer for me.
But I am going to return it and try another I do remember Mike having to return his, but I have a feeling it's not the radio.

You have a legitimate point, however if you actually look at the coverage areas of the Boston stations, you're pretty close to the Class B edge. Also (Editorial) keep in mind that the FCC has basically decided that Class B and B1 protection doesn't really work all that well(IMHO). Note they don't use it in "The rest of the country". (Sheesh was that a swipe at the coasts or what.) Or for NCE stations. Out here in "Fly over country" we use the 60db countour. A lot more reliable I would say. And just as another sidelight, despite it's 50,000 watt power, WBZ isn't a local at your locale. As for the other stuff who knows. I ran all the "Boston" COL stations on FCC maps. There all right out there near the edge of the 54. Spacing rules are really screwy in 1 & 1A.(IMHO)

Many people don't realize how far out in the 'burbs they really are radio wise. Then again, IIRC the King Ranch down here in our neck of the woods is bigger than Rhode Island.

Also I would suspect your dealing with some geography as far as hills and stuff. The idea of Single digit KW stations at high altitudes has never made much sense to me. It is interesting, though that somehow .5mv signals are magically supposed to work in Zones 1 and 1a, but you need 1.0mv everywhere else.

Maybe they tried to legislate a change in the laws of physics a long time ago. Who knows.

Hope it works out for ya.

Clouseau

 

[Tom Wells]

If the Sony is anywhere within 6-10 feet of the computer, I would expect your poor results. At least for AM.

Have you tried with all the computers off? Is there a headphone jack?

If not try with some little amp with no info displays.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Yes I should especially considering there are several HD stations right in Worcester which is not very far from me,

Last time I drove through there, it looked like Worcester was in a valley - NOT good for FM. Just today, over flat terrain 70 miles North of the Dallas Ft. Worth towers, I got HD on all of the HD stations using a dipole located 1 meter above the ground. So the system works very well over flat terrain, no power increase needed unless you want to cover cows and horses with HD. I am not sure a power increase would do much for your valley situation. That usually attenuates multiple decades of signal.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

AM is a complete bomb, I even hooked up my CC crane Twin Coil ferrite antenna to it and got nothing at all even though I live less than 10 miles from WTAG 580's towers a 5KW station which booms in here, WBZ had the HD light blinking which means the tuner detected an HD station but it is too weak to lock on. I live about 40 miles from this 50KW station's towers in Hull.

My HD DXpedition to Van Alstyne (US 75 mile marker 55) was also for AM - my opinion on the CCrane is that it is too narrow for good HD. Remember you are now trying for a channel 50 kHz wide, and box loops and souped up ferrites are made for much narrower bandwidth. The wideband AM loop that came with my tuner did 70 to 80 mile HD on AM (WBAP), the others are in the 30 to 40 mile range and all locked. Nighttime is a different matter, HD AM is particularly sensitive to interference, and I've never had much luck, even in the city a few miles from regional blowtorches.

I didn't take the 8 foot loop with me - it is NOT very portable - to see if 300 mile distant WOAI would decode in HD with the local 1190 a good distance away. I really need to take a decent wideband loop out into the rural Western areas of NM and AZ to see if those 1000 mile distant HD sidebands might possibly decode at that distance.

 

[KB1OKL]

And just as another sidelight, despite it's 50,000 watt power, WBZ isn't a local at your locale.

Also I would suspect your dealing with some geography as far as hills and stuff. The idea of Single digit KW stations at high altitudes has never made much sense to me. It is interesting, though that somehow .5mv signals are magically supposed to work in Zones 1 and 1a, but you need 1.0mv everywhere else.

Maybe they tried to legislate a change in the laws of physics a long time ago. Who knows.

Hope it works out for ya.

Clouseau

WBZ used to come in well here, it doesn't anymore and yes there are a lot of hills around here, I am in Blackstone valley. The thing is I'm getting many analog FM stations on this tuner, just no IBOC when I set scan to analog, it stops almost every 0.4 MHz and it may be better I haven't really had a lot of time to experiment beyond trying HD. The 5 KW station WTAG AM 580 is very powerful at my location and I expected iut and WBZ to at least come in a little, WBZ lights up the HD indicator but it blinks which means the signal is too weak to lock. WTAG doesn't even light up the indicator.

 

[KB1OKL]

If the Sony is anywhere within 6-10 feet of the computer, I would expect your poor results. At least for AM.

Have you tried with all the computers off? Is there a headphone jack?

If not try with some little amp with no info displays.

Yup it's about 5 ft from the computer. I'll try it with it off tomorrow. I am now getting a lock on all three WGBH 89.7 channels, now I like that station.

 

[KB1OKL]

AM is a complete bomb, I even hooked up my CC crane Twin Coil ferrite antenna to it and got nothing at all even though I live less than 10 miles from WTAG 580's towers a 5KW station which booms in here, WBZ had the HD light blinking which means the tuner detected an HD station but it is too weak to lock on. I live about 40 miles from this 50KW station's towers in Hull.

My HD DXpedition to Van Alstyne (US 75 mile marker 55) was also for AM - my opinion on the CCrane is that it is too narrow for good HD. Remember you are now trying for a channel 50 kHz wide, and box loops and souped up ferrites are made for much narrower bandwidth. The wideband AM loop that came with my tuner did 70 to 80 mile HD on AM (WBAP), the others are in the 30 to 40 mile range and all locked.

Yeah you got a point there, the loop is narrowband, but I also got nothing with the supplied loop. I'll try one of my 400' LW's tomorrow if that doesn't bring in at least one AM HD nothing will here. I think as Clouseau mentioned the topography is lousy here for FM but that doesn't really explain the lack of AM as I must to be able to get WTAG's groundwave signal here. Worcester has seven hills in it. To tell you the truth I wasn't expecting much for AM but did expect decent FM IBOC reception.

 

[tomservo]

Yup it's about 5 ft from the computer. I'll try it with it off tomorrow. I am now getting a lock on all three WGBH 89.7 channels, now I like that station.

It's definitely worth a shot. My computer is a RF nightmare; my stereo's dipole fell behind the computer desk last week and the only station that is audible through the hash is the FM output of my XM radio.... Whose sat antenna cable is just under the dipole!

The fact that the very local 50,000 watt FM doesn't even punch through the noise is a testament to the RF levels the computer puts out.

 

[KB1OKL]

Yup it's about 5 ft from the computer. I'll try it with it off tomorrow. I am now getting a lock on all three WGBH 89.7 channels, now I like that station.

It's definitely worth a shot. My computer is a RF nightmare; my stereo's dipole fell behind the computer desk last week and the only station that is audible through the hash is the FM output of my XM radio.... Whose sat antenna cable is just under the dipole!

The fact that the very local 50,000 watt FM doesn't even punch through the noise is a testament to the RF levels the computer puts out.

Well it didn't make a difference on FM to shut it off, haven't tried AM yet. I have been able to get WGBH HD 1,2 and 3 with judicious placement of the dipole antenna. Every night when I come home of course my wife has moved it. This whole system is too damn cumbersome. You gotta wait for it to lock on, you have to move the antenna tiny increments to get FM HD stations (at least here in MA) 30-40 miles away, it's still not a mystery to me why it hasn't caught on with the general public.
I will say one thing though, some people here laugh at the Meduci tuner but it absolutely kills the reception of this AM tuner and I'm talking noise levels and sensitivity also besides the fact that it just plain sounds a lot better. If you want a good AM tuner pick up a Meduci, very nice sounding AM tuner.

 

[JH_Radio]

How about the antenna on my rooph for FM, this is the one I used for my Yamaha T-85. I am 16 miles away from most of the HD's here in Philly. Might this work better then the bypole that came with a unit?
I'm thinkin about purchasein one of these units.

John
Bensalem, PA

 

[KB1OKL]

How about the antenna on my rooph for FM, this is the one I used for my Yamaha T-85. I am 16 miles away from most of the HD's here in Philly. Might this work better then the bypole that came with a unit?
I'm thinkin about purchasein one of these units.

John
Bensalem, PA

Oh yeah I'm sure it would but I live in an apartment and don't care enough about IBOC to put one on the roof. I have all kinds of ham antennas up here but in the back yard, don't want to push it. Besides I bought it mainly out of curiosity and it was cheap enough and was supposed to be a good unit, it probably is, just that the technology is bad IMHO. This thing picks up all kinds of stations in analog on FM, HD? That's another story. AM? nothing in IBOC. I'm going to try it with a LW antenna this week end on AM and see what happens.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

Just make sure that your TV antenna doesn't have a built-in FM TRAP, then you're screwed, but if it doesn't, then it will work great on FM sitting between Channels 6 and 7.

 

[JH_Radio]

But do i really wanna get this unit? What if in five years IBOC is belly up? I mean, is this tecdhnology gonna stay or lose? Do I bother purchaseing a receiver when I don't even know ware the technology will be 10 years from now? The Yamaha T-85 tuner works very well on FM anolog. It would not make sense for me to purchase this just to have a second anolog tuner that works as well as the Yamaha. Kinda like havin two coffee pots but only one gets used. I mean, is there really a reason for me to go out and get this Sony unit? HD 2's and 3's are jockliss. So it won't be content with any type of personallity. Having non-compressed audio would be nice (Didn't someone say that HD 1's have much better of a dynamic range?) That might be nice. Hmmm, okay what points and posatives are there for this unit? I just don't see it. Maybe someone can inlightin me.
John
Bensalem, PA

 

[KB1OKL]

But do i really wanna get this unit? What if in five years IBOC is belly up? I mean, is this tecdhnology gonna stay or lose? Do I bother purchaseing a receiver when I don't even know ware the technology will be 10 years from now? The Yamaha T-85 tuner works very well on FM anolog. It would not make sense for me to purchase this just to have a second anolog tuner that works as well as the Yamaha. Kinda like havin two coffee pots but only one gets used. I mean, is there really a reason for me to go out and get this Sony unit? HD 2's and 3's are jockliss. So it won't be content with any type of personallity. Having non-compressed audio would be nice (Didn't someone say that HD 1's have much better of a dynamic range?) That might be nice. Hmmm, okay what points and posatives are there for this unit? I just don't see it. Maybe someone can inlightin me.
John
Bensalem, PA

This is just my humble opinion and those who know me here also know I haven't exactly been a big fan of IBOC. I've had this receiver for a couple of weeks, I get nothing in HD on AM even with a 400 ft long long wire antenna connected to it and I have a 5KW HD AM about ten miles (probably less) from here and a 50KW approximately 40 miles from here, the infamous WBZ.
On FM I can get a few Boston stations if I really fool with the dipole, it does sound good WHEN it comes in and with a roof Yagi antenna with a rotator it might even work good enough to use like I would any other radio, but I'm not going to do that. This is supposedly the most sensitive IBOC radio on the market right now, if this is it, it certainly hasn't changed my mind about how ill-conceived IBOC was and how badly it works. I bought this thing as an experiment and the experiment failed. I get a station in analog FM just about at every place on the dial, IBOC? WITH careful placement of the dipole with stations I already know are there I am lucky to get two. If i put the dipole on the wall like most people and hit HD scan it goes round and round like a merry go round. The only consistent lock I've gotten here is WGBH with transmitters in Milton MA, a 100KW station approx 40 miles from here with the towers on a hill top. To be fair the sound is very good in HD on this station on the HD-1 channel but so is the sound on live365.

 

[JH_Radio]

It sounds to me that I may be best to wait and see how this plays out. If I didn't have the Yamaha T-85 tuner modified, I might consider this unit bassed on the reviews I've seen for its anolog performance on FM. It seems to me all of the reports I am reading is that this technology needs to die and fast. Receivers do not decode the signal very far away from the Transmitter, and though I'll probably fair better then most on FM, it just doesn't seem to be a worth while investment. I could put the $99 tward the purchase of something that actually works such as the Maduci AMX-2000 AM Stereo tuner.
John
Bensalem, PA

 

[KB1OKL]

It sounds to me that I may be best to wait and see how this plays out. If I didn't have the Yamaha T-85 tuner modified, I might consider this unit bassed on the reviews I've seen for its anolog performance on FM. It seems to me all of the reports I am reading is that this technology needs to die and fast. Receivers do not decode the signal very far away from the Transmitter, and though I'll probably fair better then most on FM, it just doesn't seem to be a worth while investment. I could put the $99 tward the purchase of something that actually works such as the Maduci AMX-2000 AM Stereo tuner.
John
Bensalem, PA

I strongly recommend the Meduci, I use a C Crane twin coil ferrite antenna with it with kind of acts like another RF stage which cuts down on the fidelity a little but narrows the broad as a barn front end and it still blows away any other AM receiver I have as far as sound goes, it's fairly sensitive also, the thing sounds great. I listen to 740 Toronto on it which is about (I think) 400 miles from here.