Sound quality XM Radio Vs. HDFM

[Savage]

It could be with a consent agreement where satcasters would agree upfront to credit paid subscribers to compensate them for having bought into "commercial-free."

The path of lesser resistance would be to make some channels commercial free (so as to deliver on earlier marketing claims) and sell spots on other channels. That way satcasters, listeners and regulators could all have it both ways - the kind of prospect that makes LAWMAKERS salivate.

In order for the service to survive you're almost going to have to resign yourself, as a satradio listener, to some commercial content. At some point there's got to be a financial "day of reckoning." The current financial performance of XM/Sirius can't be maintained indefinitely.

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

TAn interesting development for XM...Magnum Dynalab, the high-end tuner manufacturer, has introduced a high-end XM tuner that uses VACUUM TUBES!

I'm sure the tubes are being used for the line-audio output sections. The tuning/decoding circuitry would still have to be integrated circuits. We're talking, basically, about micro computers here. Can you imagine the size of an XM tuner using all tubes instead of ICs? Even using discreete transistors would make the device as big as a living room (or perhaps even bigger).

Back in 1990 or so, I remember seeing some ultra-high end CD players that used tubes in their line-audio-out sections. The actual decoding circuitry, however, was solid-state.

 

[Mike Walker]

I'm sure you're right, Stephanie that the tubes are in the analog section. But I saw an ad in the new Stereophile for a cd player that uses tubes in the digital signal path (not sure exactly what functions, I was just thumbing through. I don't even remember the brand). I'll try to find out more, if anyone's interested.

I wonder if any satellite signal is good enough to justify choosing the best sounding d/a converter, then screwing around with the analog output until it's "just right". Kind of like connecting an Edison cylinder player to top amplification, and electrostatic speakers

 

[Mike Walker]

Oh, and the maximum total bitrate for HD on FM ISN'T 96kbps. It's quite a bit more than that, using expanded-hybrid mode. Why, you can exceed FMExtra's bitrate, and still broadcast in (analog) STEREO!

 

[jras20]

If those folks that run satellite ever get smart and drop the monthly fees in favor of advertisers, they will kick HD radios right out of the running because of the impressive number of channels and variety of programming. Especially if they get the merger and eliminate duplication. Over 300 channels can cover a lot of niches - HD cannot ever reach that number of selections in any market.

If XM did that, I would be on them in a heartbeat!

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

If the radios stayed at the current price and either Sirius or XM went to an advertiser supported medium, I'd definitely plunk down $40 bucks or whatever for one of their cheap tuners. 8)

 

[stevenNOLA]

And I would terminate my subscription. I pay so I don't have to hear blah blah blah in between songs.

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

Obviously I was propsing they drop the subscription-based business.

With umpteen channels, they can probably get away with selling limited amounts of spots on each channel (I'd say about 5 minutes an hour) and still make some pocket money.

 

[Chuck]

Obviously I was propsing they drop the subscription-based business.

With umpteen channels, they can probably get away with selling limited amounts of spots on each channel (I'd say about 5 minutes an hour) and still make some pocket money.

I think they could do a brisk business if it was free and supported by very limited commercial breaks; say one 30 second commercial per stop set, unlike the 7-8 spots that many terrestrial broadcasters subject you to. I don’t know if the economics would work out on that, but with 100 channels to choose from, it still would be a lot of spots.

 

[Radioman100]

I think they could do a brisk business if it was free and supported by very limited commercial breaks; say one 30 second commercial per stop set, unlike the 7-8 spots that many terrestrial broadcasters subject you to. I don’t know if the economics would work out on that, but with 100 channels to choose from, it still would be a lot of spots.

It might happen for a very short while. A lot of radio stations could also get by if they just ran one commercial per stopset, but nobody does because there's more money to be made. XM and Sirius are publicly traded, so the same pressure on radio to expand stopsets would also be on them.

XM does run spots on some channels you can't really get from terrestrial radio. The comedy channels for example run brief stopsets. Frankly, when I was a subscriber, that always offended me.

 

[Chuck]

It might happen for a very short while. A lot of radio stations could also get by if they just ran one commercial per stopset, but nobody does because there's more money to be made. XM and Sirius are publicly traded, so the same pressure on radio to expand stopsets would also be on them.

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? No matter what we have, we always want more. Greed prevails. You could say that's what is wrong with a lot of terrestrial radio as well.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Oh, and the maximum total bitrate for HD on FM ISN'T 96kbps. It's quite a bit more than that, using expanded-hybrid mode. Why, you can exceed FMExtra's bitrate, and still broadcast in (analog) STEREO!

Not without transmitting additional new digital signals on adjacent channels. A big problem in FM congested, heavily populated areas.
The digital HD FM plan also includes dropping analog FM including stereo entirely.

 

[Mike Walker]

Are you saying that "expanded hybrid mode" requires dropping analog fm stereo? I know that broadcasting FMExtra at maximum bitrate does, but are you SURE about FM HD? If it's true (I HADN'T READ THAT), then it CLEARLY is not worth it for anything but FM talk stations with no imagination in engineering (i.e. who have no stereo content to begin with).

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Are you saying that "expanded hybrid mode" requires dropping analog fm stereo? I know that broadcasting FMExtra at maximum bitrate does, but are you SURE about FM HD? If it's true (I HADN'T READ THAT), then it CLEARLY is not worth it for anything but FM talk stations with no imagination in engineering (i.e. who have no stereo content to begin with).

No. I said FM HD radio requires HD stations to transmit additional digital signals on already occupied adjacent FM channels. A problem in highly populated FM congested areas. FM HD radio also plans to drop all analog mono and stereo transmissions.

Unlike HD Radio, FMeXtra is actually In Band On Channel and has not announced plans to completely drop analog FM transmission.

 

[Mike Walker]

I don't know any FM HD stations that "plan to drop all analog and stereo transmissions". NOTHING would really be gained! And the interference issue on FM just doesn't carry water, at least in my experience so far. I'm getting tightly-spaced adjacents in HD (88.5WFDD Winston Salem NC, 88.7WNCW Spindale NC). Smack-up against each other, with me in between, and both come in just fine in HD, with no interference that I can hear on analog fm radios, and I've listened HARD trying to hear it. Yack about AM HD interference, and you have a sympathetic ear (in me). But apply it to FM, and most rational people just ain't listening.

Your point abotu FMExtra is a good one. It may well have been a better option. But FM HD has already "left the station". Of course it would be a VERY LOW-COST OPTION to add to future HD Radios, and would be GREAT for small-market stations. Hell, you REALLY want to help small-market stations go digital? Lobby the FCC to REQUIRE dual-mode (HD and FMExtra) for future "HD" radios!

 

[Chuck]

Hell, you REALLY want to help small-market stations go digital? Lobby the FCC to REQUIRE dual-mode (HD and FMExtra) for future "HD" radios!

That may not be an outlandish an idea. Remember that UHF TV was a real flop until the FCC mandated that all sets must be equipped with UHF tuners. Of course UHF really didn't take off until the tuners became continuous, stepping with no effort from one channel to another. The terms UHF and VHF became fairly meaningless to the ordinary consumer. It became just "TV." Before that happened, UHF was the stepchild of television. People weren't even willing to fiddle with a continuously variable tuning knob and a second hoop style antenna that was clipped on to their rabbit ears.

I don't think human nature has changed very much. At least right now, HD isn't easy enough for the average consumer. Until it (and maybe FMExtra) becomes seamless, it is going to be just a small blip on the radar screen. That is unless the interference generated by HD manages to alienate enough listeners to cause them to find something else to listen to.

 

[Mike Walker]

I don't see how HD is "difficult" for consumers. Now it would be damned annoying to be trying to listen to an HD2 station, when the damn radio kept "blending" back to analog, which was of course what was on the HD1. A small price to pay for the extra diversity. Face it, digital in a moving car will never be completely seamless. XM sure as hell isn't in my (rural) area (no repeaters here in the sticks, and surrounded by mountains and trees).

 

[Chuck]

I don't see how HD is "difficult" for consumers. Now it would be damned annoying to be trying to listen to an HD2 station, when the damn radio kept "blending" back to analog, which was of course what was on the HD1. A small price to pay for the extra diversity. Face it, digital in a moving car will never be completely seamless. XM sure as hell isn't in my (rural) area (no repeaters here in the sticks, and surrounded by mountains and trees).

By difficult, I mean messing with an external antenna, etc. They wouldn't do it for analog, so I have no reason to believe they will do it for HD or any other service.

Actually some people may find the delay involved in tuning-buffering to be annoying. As more and more devices in our lives do this, we may get used to it. I can tell you that having the HD-2 channel drop out into "nothing." will take a long time to get used to.

 

[Mike Walker]

Most Americans live in urban/suburban locations where external antennas are not needed. Simply straightening out the "t" dipole antenna, taking it to the wall, or the back of the equipment rack, rather than letting it curl up in the floor, is usually all that's required. If you can get clean, noise-free, "unblended" analog fm stereo, you can get HD.

As for nobody putting up outdoor antennas, talk to a custom installer. There's been a surge of outdoor antenna installations for the last several years, for over-the-air digital television. The guy who put up my antenna a few months ago says he has more business than he can handle. Videophiles who care about getting the best quality, and rural residents who can't get DTV with a simpler setup are keeping him "hopping". That same antenna can feed all the tvs, and radios in the home. My antenna is connected to my HDTV in the living room, my media center PC, my Accurian HD Radio, ATSC dvd recorder, and in the bedroom the FM tuner, tv, and ntsc dvd recorder in there. Hey, if you're gonna' put the damn thing up, GET YOUR MONEY'S WORTH!

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

FM HD radio also plans to drop all analog mono and stereo transmissions.

Please post your proof of this statement. Now. OTOH, never mind. You can't, because there are no such plans.

I work for one of the companies heavily invested in HD, and I've seen both the sales and engineering literature. I can truthfully report that there are no such plans. iBiquity has designed a scenario for digital-only transmissions, but neither they nor the FCC have ANY plans to drop analog transmission. Given the pace at which receivers are being purchased, such plans would make no sense at all. IF...a huge IF...such plans were in the works, they'd be scheduled for decades away, at the very least...and certainly not before there's a critical mass of consumers who actually have the radios. Dropping the signal that gets into the 800+-million analog radios currently in the hands of consumers, before a substantial percentage of them have HD radios, is equivalent to swallowing the business end of a gun.

We get it already. You don't like HD. Neither do I. But...there are plenty of legitimate reasons not to like it. We don't have to come here and make them up out of whole cloth. Get yourself a better argument than this one.