Sound Solutions Processor

[elchupacabras]

Just out of curiosity, what are your professional opinions of the Sound Solutions free processor plug-in available for Win-Amp. It is a 5 band virtual box with AGC, density control, pre-emphasis and all of the other "typical goodies." I have played around with it and actually use it as a part of the stream for my on-air (use AAC+ encoder) program from Mexico to the United States.

I have come up with some pretty good combos, but hear some type of encoding problems around the 12khz area. Sure, it ain't an Omnia, but for being free, I don't think anybody has come up with a better piece of software. I can actually enjoy my mp3's with this again, although I would warn that just as it can make things sound much hotter, it can bring the worst out of a poorly encoded MP3. So much for crappy encoded compressed audio. UGH!

Also, I have always had an interest in different boxes and recently found some demos of some relatively obscure processors, including a couple made by Solidyne, based out of Argentina. Not bad for the money, but does anyone have experience with them?

 

[OttoM]

SS is a good "trainer" for learning audio processing 101. And it's good for the price. I'd never use it for any kind of revenue-generating application.

Note that the "new" version (called XAP) is NOT free any longer.

Please elaborate on your 12kHz "encoding problems". Heavy artifacting? Too bright-sounding? You'll find the processing gurus on this board are ready and willing to help.

 

[gtomas]

I never liked it and frankly, having tried it several times in the past, I'm surprised by some people's comments that it sounds good... Free or not free.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[elchupacabras]

Look, it beats a tone control knob! Never said it was perfect. My biggest complaint is that even when the bands are not linked heavily, if you try to add density to the bottom end for a balsy voice it tends to impact the 12-15 khz area to the point of adding horrible harmonic distortion. I don't use it as a final processor since that is in the studio, but use it to jazz up an other wise anemic sounding feed. Fortunately my station is AM so the NRSC cleans up a lot of the high end splatter,which does get a little better by backing off the compression to a certain degree. Believe me, it does take a lot of fooling with to get a decent sound, but for home use, I still have to give it a "B+." Station use: "C-."

 

[Sgeirk]

I never cared for it's controls, setup, or sound. A toy.

 

[oldiesstation]

http://www.claessonedwards.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=55

Not sure how critical this stream is to you.Maybe what you have is ok.But you might try this link.None of the sound solution products "flicked my bic".Never heard the solidyne processors.But i ;ve set up alot of the others,Omnia 3t,omnia 6exi,,orban 8100,orban 8500,dsp-x,dsp-extra,omnia one fm.back in the day aphex 2020,dap 610's,unity 2000,which explains why i'm about half nuts today(ha)...Ain't processing fun??

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I never liked it and frankly, having tried it several times in the past, I'm surprised by some people's comments that it sounds good... Free or not free.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

Well stated Goran...

 

[radiorob2.0]

Just put a Compellor in front of Sound Solutions and that will take care of everything ;D

But seriously, Sound Solution is what it is. It came in handy when I fed Christmas music to an outdoor music system. Winamp rotated the music and Sound Solution kept the levels consistent.

I purchased a version on eBay with presets, for $5 it was worth a shot. I fed my laptop into a part 15 FM transmitter using a preset that sounded decent. After matching the levels with a real radio station I compared my part 15 signal with others using a Carver TX-11 receiver. With the exception of the non-coms and one commercial signal the part 15 with Sound Solutions sounded better. The audio was up front yet had perceived dynamics compared to many squashed distorted signals. Does that mean Sound Solutions is that good of a program? No, it means that many broadcasters in my neck of the woods do not know how to set up their processing.

 

[cgould]

Does that mean Sound Solutions is that good of a program? No, it means that many broadcasters in my neck of the woods do not know how to set up their processing.

More likely....because you didn't have an actual modulation monitor, bets are you were overmodulating by quite a bit... allowing you to back off on the sound solutions processor, and sound better (and still overmodualting). If you had a modulation monitor to properly compensate for the peaks as a regular FM would, then you'd find the same poor results others posted about here ;-)

-C

 

[radiorob2.0]

Does that mean Sound Solutions is that good of a program? No, it means that many broadcasters in my neck of the woods do not know how to set up their processing.

More likely....because you didn't have an actual modulation monitor, bets are you were overmodulating by quite a bit... allowing you to back off on the sound solutions processor, and sound better (and still overmodualting). If you had a modulation monitor to properly compensate for the peaks as a regular FM would, then you'd find the same poor results others posted about here ;-)

-C

It was an unscientific test The point is we have very poor audio in this neck of the woods. Sound Solutions is what it is, Fisher Price My First Multiband Processor ;D

 

[cgould]

No worries...just chiming in with others in regards to your original question...

Just out of curiosity, what are your professional opinions of the Sound Solutions free processor plug-in available for Win-Amp. It is a 5 band virtual box with AGC, density control, pre-emphasis and all of the other "typical goodies."

As far as the other stations sounding bad, what I was trying to point out that it is highly likely that they are competing for ultimate loudness. When you do that, quality flies out the window real fast. Generally speaking, the louder you make your station sound, the more quality you give up. Now, if you "cheat" and illegally over-deviate (overmodulate) you can then have loudness and quality...which is probably what you are experiencing when not using a proper method of measuring modulation. Hence, you are sounding just as loud, but better quality than the licensed operations in town while using the software because you could very easily be well be out to 130% modulation or more on program peaks. Unmodified sound cards on computers are notoriously sloppy when you are trying to go for for ultimate peak control. Not trying to stomp on your parade. Just pointing out one big issue that needs to be addressed if you want a fair comparison.

;D

Having said that, if you have an interest in audio processing, that's great! Take all we've said to you as part of what you need to start down an interesting path of learning!

Regards,

-Cornelius

 

[elchupacabras]

Radio Rob wrote: I purchased a version on eBay with presets, for $5 it was worth a shot. I fed my laptop into a part 15 FM transmitter using a preset that sounded decent. After matching the levels with a real radio station I compared my part 15 signal with others using a Carver TX-11 receiver. With the exception of the non-coms and one commercial signal the part 15 with Sound Solutions sounded better. The audio was up front yet had perceived dynamics compared to many squashed distorted signals. Does that mean Sound Solutions is that good of a program? No, it means that many broadcasters in my neck of the woods do not know how to set up their processing.

Cornelious Gould wrote: No worries...just chiming in with others in regards to your original question... Wink

Quote from: elchupacabras on February 23, 2009, 01:12:21 pm
Just out of curiosity, what are your professional opinions of the Sound Solutions free processor plug-in available for Win-Amp. It is a 5 band virtual box with AGC, density control, pre-emphasis and all of the other "typical goodies."

As far as the other stations sounding bad, what I was trying to point out that it is highly likely that they are competing for ultimate loudness. When you do that, quality flies out the window real fast. Generally speaking, the louder you make your station sound, the more quality you give up. Now, if you "cheat" and illegally over-deviate (overmodulate) you can then have loudness and quality...which is probably what you are experiencing when not using a proper method of measuring modulation. Hence, you are sounding just as loud, but better quality than the licensed operations in town while using the software because you could very easily be well be out to 130% modulation or more on program peaks. Unmodified sound cards on computers are notoriously sloppy when you are trying to go for for ultimate peak control. Not trying to stomp on your parade. Just pointing out one big issue that needs to be addressed if you want a fair comparison.

Grin

Having said that, if you have an interest in audio processing, that's great! Take all we've said to you as part of what you need to start down an interesting path of learning!

Wow, the famous Cornelious Gould! I think you may have mixed me up with Radio Rob, but thanks for your opinion. I must say I have a lot of respect for your work and have read your articles in a number of trade journals. You are the next Frank Foti, or perhaps even better!

Radio Rob: You are right on! I have a Sonic Maximizer and Compellor behind the processor to limit.

Cornelious is right about cheap sound cards as well. A good card goes a long way in preserving quality. I also concur that for the most part, the Sound Solutions is a toy, only to be used sparingly on hobby applications, beats have no processing while playing mp3's at home, for those of use who can't stand to hear non-processed music.

Now, on to another issue:
Mr. Gould, you've mentioned something about NPR processing in the past, maybe others could expand on it. But frankly, even though I don't mind the content on many NPR stations (many of which only broadcast talk, and not music), I can't stand listening to it because of the lack of processing from the mic to the sat. to the studio. It sounds so cold, on virtually every affiliate that I have listened to, that I shut it off. If they are not playing classical music, why do they do this? Are there any NPR stations out there that have more aggressive processing?

 

[gtomas]

What Cornelius has said is so true and important that needs to be re-read again!

As far as the other stations sounding bad, what I was trying to point out that it is highly likely that they are competing for ultimate loudness. When you do that, quality flies out the window real fast. Generally speaking, the louder you make your station sound, the more quality you give up. Now, if you "cheat" and illegally over-deviate (overmodulate) you can then have loudness and quality...which is probably what you are experiencing when not using a proper method of measuring modulation. Hence, you are sounding just as loud, but better quality than the licensed operations in town while using the software because you could very easily be well be out to 130% modulation or more on program peaks. Unmodified sound cards on computers are notoriously sloppy when you are trying to go for for ultimate peak control. Not trying to stomp on your parade. Just pointing out one big issue that needs to be addressed if you want a fair comparison.

An objective and relevant comparison between any processors can only be made if the peak modulations are exactly the same. Even the slightest increase in level/modulation can make that processor subjectively sound better.

The second part of proper processor comparison is listening on longer term and not just making judgements on quick switching between processors. Quick flipping between processors will give you one picture - listening on longer term will give you another. Things like distortion, frequency imbalances, weird gain changes, overall consistency and smoothness only show up after spending some time listening to the processor.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[cgould]

Wow, the famous Cornelious Gould! I think you may have mixed me up with Radio Rob, but thanks for your opinion. I must say I have a lot of respect for your work and have read your articles in a number of trade journals. You are the next Frank Foti, or perhaps even better!

Sorry if I mixed you up with someone else

Thanks for the complements, and glad you have found my articles useful ;D

Now, on to another issue:
Mr. Gould, you've mentioned something about NPR processing in the past, maybe others could expand on it. But frankly, even though I don't mind the content on many NPR stations (many of which only broadcast talk, and not music), I can't stand listening to it because of the lack of processing from the mic to the sat. to the studio. It sounds so cold, on virtually every affiliate that I have listened to, that I shut it off. If they are not playing classical music, why do they do this? Are there any NPR stations out there that have more aggressive processing?

Many NPR type non-commercial operators are going for long term listening. When you break the commercial radio loudness barrier (or even get close) you start to pick up audio distortion. Commercial operators use this effect to provide an in-your-face loudness presentation. NPR type programming is presented in a more "laid back" style...conversational if you will, so they go for a natural sound. Heavy processing is fatiguing to listen to for long periods of time -- especially talk programming that is "barking" into the peak clippers all the time. So, in an effort to keep people comfortable with listening for long periods of time, Non-Com stations go for more of a pure sound.

Now, they would LOVE to be as loud as the commercial guys -- but usually not at the expense of audible clipping distortion on voices, and definitely not at the expense of having the announcers sound as if they are so close to your face that they are practically licking your ears. ;D

Music stations go for a processing sound that keeps things somewhat under control while not manipulating (or re-mixing) the musical works too much.

Some of the work I do involves working on ways to try to even out program variations while keeping some level of "natural" sound for Non-Com's / NPR's.

-Cornelius

 

[radiorob2.0]

No worries...just chiming in with others in regards to your original question...

Just out of curiosity, what are your professional opinions of the Sound Solutions free processor plug-in available for Win-Amp. It is a 5 band virtual box with AGC, density control, pre-emphasis and all of the other "typical goodies."

As far as the other stations sounding bad, what I was trying to point out that it is highly likely that they are competing for ultimate loudness. When you do that, quality flies out the window real fast. Generally speaking, the louder you make your station sound, the more quality you give up. Now, if you "cheat" and illegally over-deviate (overmodulate) you can then have loudness and quality...which is probably what you are experiencing when not using a proper method of measuring modulation. Hence, you are sounding just as loud, but better quality than the licensed operations in town while using the software because you could very easily be well be out to 130% modulation or more on program peaks. Unmodified sound cards on computers are notoriously sloppy when you are trying to go for for ultimate peak control. Not trying to stomp on your parade. Just pointing out one big issue that needs to be addressed if you want a fair comparison.

;D

Having said that, if you have an interest in audio processing, that's great! Take all we've said to you as part of what you need to start down an interesting path of learning!

Regards,

-Cornelius

I've always been fascinated with processing. I also have read your articles over the years learning much about the subject.

 

[littlejohn]

I'll add one point to all of this - if you hire a guru to come in and assist - or set it up - do NOT allow him/her to arrive via air in the morning and spend the day tweaking. Rather, have the arrival after lunch, with the idea of surveying the equipment and getting recommendations for equipment mods/transmitteer tuning, whatever. Then tomorrow have a late and leisurely breakfast while you go over what you want and what the guru thinks can be accomplished. THEN go play tweak with your boxes. It takes a day or more for your hearing to recover from a flight, don't let anybody set the place up when they can't her well. (Try it - test your hearing just after a flight and then a couple days later, you'll be amazed at the difference. I was.)

 

[cgould]

I'll add one point to all of this - if you hire a guru to come in and assist - or set it up - do NOT allow him/her to arrive via air in the morning and spend the day tweaking. <snip>

It takes a day or more for your hearing to recover from a flight, don't let anybody set the place up when they can't her well. (Try it - test your hearing just after a flight and then a couple days later, you'll be amazed at the difference. I was.)

Yup!

It takes one to several days for my ears to recover from a flight. Over a week in the case when I came home from Amsterdam! People think I'm nuts when I do this, but I prefer to drive to locations where I have to start tweaking right after arrival for this very reason!

-C

 

[Sgeirk]

Fully agreed, I've flown numerous times with a sinus infection...and it's taken me up to a week to fully recover from a flight!!!

 

[elchupacabras]

While I am not a professional sound engineer, but rather a regular bloke in the industry, I can second your opinions. I notice a stark attenuation of anything above 8.5 khz and anything below 300 khz when I have flown. The pressurized cabin is really a disaster on the ears.

 

[liradioprez]

My very first audio processor was a Dourough 310 or was it..610? It had three small meters on the left, and one larger one on the right. It was a very old mono FM unit. The airchecks I have of that processor (in my opinion) sound way better than SS. SS (from the setups I've heard) has a very..compressed digital sound. It doesn't have the rich..creamy sound of analog (8100, Unity 2000, etc). I think it's great as a toy..but I can't listen to it...and I would never ever ever put it on the air on ANY of my stations...from part 15 to pirate, to licensed.