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Standards stations that have their own music library

Chuck said:
As good as Wink Martindale and Gary Owens are, even the most gullible people are fairly sure that neither live in their home town. Hearing them on the air is like putting up a billboard that says "We Aren't Local."
True, but Music Of Your Life isn't even billed as being local. They frequently refer to it as being a network on the air, read listener emails complete with the call letters of whatever station they're listening on and even operate MusicOfYourLife.com, which spills whatever beans aren't already out there from the air product.

Music Of Your Life is a unique animal in that way, since they don't even pretend that they're local. I appreciate the candor, but it can't help the ratings points...
 
Chuck,
Pardon me while I laugh. HA HA HA! Sorry.

Chuck, you said; "My feeling is that with plenty of good voice talent, people looking for work and combined technology to bring the two together locally, I'd opt not to go satellite these days."

Chuck, What will you use to PAY those people? Your post identifies YOU as a music geek, but much less than a radio businessman.

My 20+ years as a station owner (4 stations) says, you could "opt" yourself right out of business. I am by no means an EXPERT, but let me paint a picture for you;

You and I each own a station in Hooterville.

By hiring 4 or 5 or 6 people and paying their salaries and their insurance, and their benefits, you have a MUCH larger expense than the other station in your town that is "dial global" or "timeless. Their "expense" is one minute per hour barter.

I don't have to work so hard.

You will go through LOTS of dj's. They are usually NOT at all loyal. They would rather listen to RAP or other musical feces.

They will always be asking for MORE - MORE money, more of everything, except working hours.

Your number of dj's want vacation.
Your dj's get sick with little notice, or come late.
Yur dj's have a life outside of radio.
Your dj's crab that you only provide them Sam's Club coffee, and they want a mocha coffee maker.
They really stink up your bathroom and steal toilet paper.

They complain about your "HORRIBLE grandma music."
Your dj's are always bitching about working 6 day weeks.

You caught a few smoking dope in YOUR studio on a Saturday night.
They sexually harass your red haired secretary and she is angry and afraid.

YOUR music library cost a few thousand dollars.
MINE IS FREE -except for those cd's I trade with a big box store. Those 40's 50's and 60's hits play in 1 local avail every hour.

My station fits in a closet. I have 4 salespeople on (30%) commission.
My dj's are NOT my problem. They are in Los Angeles. I don't pay them anything. You have all those employees.

I have a GREAT Chief Engineer who fixes my transmitter and my whole computer system (traded from the big box store).

With your big payroll, you can only afford a part time College age engineering student.

I have a great newsman who is also a local minister. HE grew up in this town and KNOWS EVERYBODY. The police chief is a member of his church, so he gets all the scoops, beating your station and the newspaper.

Do YOU have local news? WHO is YOUR newsman? Will he get up on Saturday to cover a store opening?

Your morning dj, Joe, is a good guy, but you had to get him from the other side of the state. Joe stutters a bit, but is "dependable." He arrives at 5:55 each morning to start his 6am morning show.

Joe travels to the other side of the state to visit his mom after his Friday shift (thats why he hates working on some saturdays). You know his is looking for another gig. Sometimes he drives back early on Monday morning, just getting to the studio on time.

You meet your second biggest advertiser at a Church supper.
He complains that Joe stammers alot ("um, um, um") and worse, he mispronounces his mothe-in-laws name TEGHTMEYER - when he read the local birthdays. He also has difficulty with the names of some local towns. He can never remember PULASKI is pronounced PULA SKY around here.

Also, Your part time secretary is not sending his co-op bills on time, and he is worried if he can collect.

Really and truly....
NOBODY CARES if Jeff Rollins or Wink are LOCAL. Their personality and pipes outweigh Joe on his very best day.

I have great lilners that are changed very often.
We do local contests, local psa's, lots of local sports.
We have a professional meteorologist do our weather.

WE are a BIG part of what goes on in Hooterville.
 
Oak Tree, It sounds like you did it right. I have respect for that because I did the same, using Whitburn and OTS exactly as you did.

However, I do still value what a "bird" can do to the bottom line.

When I was in my 20's and getting started I had the energy to "do it myself." Now, in my mid-50's I know "how much I can get away with" so the bird is the word.
 
hammondo said:
Chuck,
Pardon me while I laugh. HA HA HA! Sorry.

Chuck, you said; "My feeling is that with plenty of good voice talent, people looking for work and combined technology to bring the two together locally, I'd opt not to go satellite these days."
Please point out where I said that. I believe that was Oaktree, not me. I do think that what he says is viable and could work. Please note that he mentioned, "combined technology." That's the key. I know all too well about employees though. I've had 30+ years worth of them. You get some great ones, but you do tend to adopt their families and their problems when you hire them, so I too have a great aversion to them. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Even though I love live radio, it probably isn’t going to happen with this format on a local basis. On the other hand you might be surprised who you can find that would work for free or work for whatever he (or she) can make selling spots on their show. It is not that hard to run a truly local AUTOMATED format that is a lot more relevant to your community than MOYL or Timeless Classics. If a couple of thousand dollars for a music library is what stands between you and doing something original, then I extend my sympathies.

I'll be happy to show you a couple of very good automation software programs that are free. You can but a clunker computer that will run them for $100, of a new one at Wal-Mart for less than $500. It is not is not that hard to do.

By the way, I operate a fairly successful Standards station that does not use any satellite services, so at least, I'm putting my money where my mouth is.
 
I did say the point about "opting out" today from satellite and to both Hammando and Chuck (who I've had a great opportunity to know through his station ... I haven't had the chance, yet, with Hammando,) I see that you are both right. We just see it differently.

Chuck is right ... "combined technology" is the key.

Hammando is right ... those expenses in a small market would kill me. I, too, am in my mid-50s.

Here's my point on why I'd opt out:

First, we three obviously love this format. We'd do anything to make it successful in our local markets, be it through ad sales or even underwritten as a community station ... because we, first, believe it the format as we hope that our community does, as well.

Now, to Hammando - that "one spot per hour" (and I come from a long stay in national format sydnication where barter & cash were both our bread and butter,) I can tell you horror stories as to how much that "one spot per hour" ended up costing local broadcasters.

Let's say you have for a full minute a net rate of $10 (just grabbing a number here.) That's $240 a day of inventory given away.

OK, so, let's write off everything from 7p to 6a. That leaves us with a net loss of $130 a day. Times 10 days, that comes to $1300, times 30 days, that's $3900 a MONTH. Multiply that over a year and the "inventory giveaway" of just one spot an hour (or 2-:30s) at a low spot rate comes to over $46,000 a year.

Imagine the cost if the low end rate card cost is closer to $15 or more. That's some serious money.

With this format, in particular, in this "Less is More" age, it doesn't work. Spot prices are not, in your local market, going to keep up with the price needed per spot to justify it's means. You are limited by how many spots you can put in an hour, even with network cut-aways to "fill" a 2:10 second spot set and still play their national spot(s). I don't like giving away any time at all.

Dial-Global in the market I'm in runs 4 minutes and gives the affiliate back 8 minutes, with the guarantee that the station airs one minute, barter, around the clock.

That's a HUGE revenue loss and not one person is involved. Do that over a three year contract, and you've just invested nearly $150,000 of your radio station with NO control whatsoever.

Even at a rate of $3 a spot per :30, $6 an hour total -- that adds up to $72 a day (below minimum wage) - $720 in 10 days, $1440 in 20 and in a month -- nearly $2200 a month just in "primetime". Now, maybe that doesn't sound like much ... but I'd sure like to pocket that nearly $24,000 a year into something else be it for the station's promotion, staff, technical, etc...or my family.

When the time comes, in the fourth quarter, instead of running 8 minutes an hour, I just might want to bump it up to 10, even 12 minutes (not units...minutes) in a small market and to hell with CC and "Less is More." It's not working in many of their own markets and they still run 10 minutes or more.

Why should I be limited? That revenue goes right to the bottom line.

Barter, as they say, is NOT free.

I understand your points about the people, especially in small markets. But the people problem is something we, as broadcasters, have to take time to handle before we rush out the door to that 8 a.m. meeting with our first client.

The thing is, with an investment in the right places -- a newsperson, for instance, who can voice track an afternoon airshift, a program director who does crack production and is dependable, as well as a morning shift or a "the music's on us" midday with inexpensive liners but lots of community calendars, jobline info, local event news, etc...it's not expensive at all, while being void of huge benefits to boot.

Sure, the newsguys's going to want a vacation. He's entitled to it. So, you do the morning news. Or, the PD does double duty. I know...I've been there, as I'm sure your have. It's only for a week at a time.

I've utilized many a receptionist in doing spots and liners to save the expense. It's a kick to them. I also budgeted for my small town of 27,000 to have Charlie Van Dyke cut my liners, so, it was a savings for me to not have to hire a "button pusher."

When I discovered that I didn't need a board up to run the local talk show for 2 hours a day, I gave the board op a night shift or he could hit the pavement...because by pressing the enter key on that big-box computer, it ran the spots all by itself with a contact closure to the master control big box computer ... and the "talent" -- even the mayor of our city -- could do it within about 3 minutes.

That trade you have for music? That's gold. Use it to every quarter, build up that library as discussed here. Check the songs YOU want, not the one's (300-500) the satellite service says you should have, and have the PD, your child, etc. put them in for you. You can do about 10 to 20 an hour. In 5 days, you have a complete library. In 2 weeks...the ultimate.

Then, turn the songs over every three months. Not a big investment of time or money.

With this format, "More is less" ... not the other way around. It will pay off hugely for you.

In fact, I'd love to show you how it can be done. Email me. I'll gladly help you.

And Chuck, keep that community station of yours local and humming. It's a great model and my city best be on that list...you have many fans here in California!
 
Oaktree,
I appreciate your post, and understand what you are saying.
BUT...a $46,000 "loss" you say (at $10 per ad). That could be 1 dj in an ok market, or 2 broadcast school people.

Now, add the benefits, insurance, and other perks and you have only paid one or 2 guys, who are mostly disloyal and addicts or perverts, anyway.

You and I have certainly heard satellite stations that mess with adding spots in non-avail places (like covering the first song after the news - or shortening the news.). It sounds bad to you and me, but most people wouldn't even notice. I can hardly believe I wrote that last sentence.

You said, "Why should I be limited? That revenue goes right to the bottom line." Well...Yes - AFTER you pay your bunch of whiney announcers.

This is just to let you know where I'm coming from. I'm 57 with 2 daughters and a beautiful wife of 29 years, in a great community with a nice slice of land on which is a house that we had built.

In 1985, we sold 4 stations for 1.3 mil on an investment of a bit more than 200k, and a few additional construction permits, and owning a couple of funeral homes for a couple of years nearly doubling my money, and NOT getting up at 3:30am to do the morning show from 1971-1985, the money has spoiled me. My bank account and what I'm doing now (nursing home chaplain) is too good. I want to enjoy things, not think too hard.

Frankly, I'm not sure I'd have the patience with un-cooperative Howard Stern wannabees anymore (ps - the wannabees I delt with wanted to be Larry Lujack).

This disccussion is fun for mne.

Peace!
 
Oak said,

OK, so, let's write off everything from 7p to 6a.

O no no no! WHY would you do that? 7p-5a can be for religion and/or any kind of sports. The Religion pays to good to be ignored, and the sports brings people that the music cannot.

7-10pm is pbp or some sports network. Then, there are a few "religion brokers" to sell 10p-5a.

I did that in 2 other markets and it pays the expenses of the station, so the DAY music/news is the profit. We can also let the broker sell Sunday and rake in some more.

Believe me, I'm very good at this. Expect a reply to your other note soon.
 
And you're right on about 7p-6a. I didn't mean leave nothing there...I mean selling that minute that you're giving away during the day & certainly at night -- and, yes, reinvesting it into the station. No loss there. At night, with p-b-p, I agree, sell it to the max. I also agree with brokering the rest of the night -- religion, music, whatever.

Here's another clue: If you've not done so, check out KAAM or any of the Crawford Stations playing Adult Standards/Nostalgia.

The spot load is light, the advertisers/sponsors bordering on eclectic.

The key, though, is all brokered talk on Saturday morning and in the afternoon and brokered religion on Sunday ... and they pay the expenses from that. As I read and still chuckle when I remember the post on a board here, "...a great station, but the weekends..."

I hear on my Internet Radio an oldies station, WARE in New England. They have a spotload that's pretty comfortable for a music AM, then brokers mid-day Friday, a lot of the time Saturday and Sunday. The shows are sold from what I see and I imagine it pays the bills.

Then, there's WNWR in Philadelphia. All brokered, all the time. Multi-ethnic cultural programming and, what I'm told, at $300 and hour ... including some goof-ball who plays disco music and does a remote from a diner talking about the pretty girls each Saturday at 3. Now, there's multi-cultural talk programming ... and at $300 an hour, the station is probably laughing all the way to the bank deposit slot on the bank door...

And thanks for your posts, Hammando. Looking forward to hearing from you.
 
hammondo said:
Oak said,

OK, so, let's write off everything from 7p to 6a.

O no no no! WHY would you do that? 7p-5a can be for religion and/or any kind of sports. The Religion pays to good to be ignored, and the sports brings people that the music cannot.
WSAI in Cincinnati used to do that. I guess all the standards fans are in bed.

On the subject of what satellite costs, I don't remember precisely where I heard this. I'm the one person on this thread who is nothing more than a listener who has never owned a radio station or even worked at one. But I've complained numerous times, and I was told once that Dial Global, whatever it was called at the time, is available free if you just run all the national commercials. While Pointless Classics, when it was Stardust, was not. You paid even if you ran all their commercials. I can't remember what that had to do with my complaint. It seems to me it would have been cheaper to take the format where you didn't have to sell the local commercials, but the station I listened to from 1996 to 2006 had little trouble doing that--even though the station manager was always on doing spots telling potential advertisers why they should run commercials on his station. Maybe this meant that with the ability to sell time, it was cheaper to run Stardust. I don't know. At the time a station co-owned with theirs was doing Music of Your Life and the music was so much better. But that wasn't the format now called Dial Global.
 
Chimp,
All Dial Global, Timeless Classics and MOYL, are and have always been "barter." That means run the 2 minutes of "national ads" each hour and you can sell the rest and get the 24/7 programming in exchange. "Who's better" is pretty much a matter of taste.

As I also mentioned, the "other programs" MAY be subsidizing the satellite music. There are more and more of those situations around.

Sports and religion make great cash in "off hours." They allow a different audience to become aware of your station AND are "easy" sales in those hours. During prime tv time, radio listenership is off anyway, and there are a few THOUSAND preachers (for us lazier people) and LOTS of available sports (if you have a decent sales staff) to make LOTS more money.

At WSAI the religion (even Brother Stair) made a great deal of money with very little effort.

My stations were either small market or rim shots. At my small town "news and music" station the sports (every night) and religion (5a-10p on Sunday and 5-6a weekday mornings) paid the expenses - then the ads sold within the music program (and the other stuff listed here) was the "gravy."

ALL of my stations had quite a bit of religion, because we were in quite a "religious area." Jimmy Swaggart found us to be his 7th highest donating station in the US (they track zip codes), allowing us to charge him an amazing high rate, and he gladly paid. Ken Copeland, the Morning Chapel Hour, and Through the Bible were all customers.

We also had sports (outlined below) and a few hours of foreign language, as well as FARM programs. These are ALL real good money makers.

On 1 station, we made over 150k annually on just (national) FARM stuff, and another 15k a year on brookered Spanish, Greek and Polka shows.

Now add the revenue from 21 hours of religion weekly, 168 Chicago Cubs games, Bears Football, basketball and football from TWO colleges, and a great rotating schedule of LOCAL high school football and basketball. O, then add the Indy 500, K Derby and other horse races, AND about 18 weeks a year of THE METROPOLITAN OPERA (!) on a few Saturday afternoons, and you'll discover ALOT of profit.

As for the Manager doing spots telling potential advertisers why they should run commercials on his station - that too is a VERY common practice. If your rate is high enough, there are plenty of availabiities.
 
In certain cases, they're not 100% barter. All has to do with the AQH of the station. The only one doing 100% barter for all stations is Jones - both ABC & Dial-Global do a cash/barter combo if your AQH isn't high enough, but from what I gather both cost about the same. The only format provider that isn't comparable is Waitt Radio Networks (they're PRICY!) but they're just now getting into the standards game.
 
hammondo said:
Chimp,
All Dial Global, Timeless Classics and MOYL, are and have always been "barter." That means run the 2 minutes of "national ads" each hour and you can sell the rest and get the 24/7 programming in exchange. "Who's better" is pretty much a matter of taste.
Well, this is just what I was told on the phone.
 
This thread got off topic too.

Oaktree and Hammondo and RMarino and I were having this discussion about how to program a station without satellite help. But that was on the Timeless Classics thread and that wasn't on topic. Perhaps that could continue here, so any references to Useless Classics can be on the right thread.
 
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