Thanks for the comments.
No, we're not "hearing what we want to hear". And I understand what you're trying to say. In reality though, you and I are actually talking about 2 separate audiences. Let me try and walk you through this. And, what I am about to go through would, generally be agreeable by most of the "big" programming consultants. (Yeah, there's that dirty word "consultants" again.) But, most of those "consultants" were PD's at
CHR stations in the 70's and 80's.
You see, the core of the audience that listens to "80's Formatted" stations really is centered more in the era that spanned from about 1977 to 1987. No, that doesn't include disco. I'm talking about the songs in the late 70's that the audience "perceives" as 80's records, even though they weren't. Songs by Blondie,
Supertramp, Tom Petty, The Cars and The Pretenders. And, only a handful of those records test. Put disco in the mix, it doesn't work. Disco seems to work as a Saturday night feature on A/C stations and some of it can work with "Jammin' Oldies", maybe also today's 70's leaned oldies stations, I don't know.
By, 1980-1982, some of these artists, and others were beginning to be noticed by the public and were becoming big. Add to the list now: Journey, REO, Genesis, Greg Kihn, Billy Squire, among others. By 1982-1985, the music was huge. Here was Mellencamp, The Police, Huey Lewis, Van Halen, Duran Duran, Prince, Bryan Adams, and, no argument, Michael Jackson (though I've already explained - his music does not test today.) And, to be honest, M-TV came along as the 80's began and, no doubt was a big reason why this music exploded. How much dance and urban product did M-TV play in the beginning? Not much, though that did change by later in the decade.
By 1985, the music was still big...but that's where the music began to peak with this audience. And, this era ended by around 1987-1988. How do we know this? Consider:
Prince had fewer hits once he released "Alphabet Street". Until, that is, the more recent "Musicology". (A couple of 90's hits, but then it dried up.) Yes, he went through his problems with the record company. But, when he changed his name to that unpronouceable symbol, something happened to his mass appeal, and I can't explain it, other than to suggest perhaps the symbol thing just was too wierd to be accepted by the mass public.
Pat Benatar's hitmaking ended with "All Fired Up". So, too with REO and "Here With Me".
Now, who was really listening in 1987 forward? Actually it was the kid brothers and kid sisters of the "80's Format" people who were becoming and were teenagers at that time. This audience clearly was a more "urban leaned" audience than the previous one.
Who became big then? New Edition, DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince, Jody Watley, Milli Vanilli (until the lip sync debacle), L.L. Cool J, the early hip-hop and rappers. Rock got harder too: GNR, Motley Crue, Ozzy, Warrant, etc. But the audience for that, too, was, for the most part, fewer and fewer of the "80's Format" partisans, though I'm sure you could find some here and there that were still listening.
If you analyze the titles in "Movin", it's pretty obvious that, minus the rock stuff, this is a big part of the audience they're going after. The audience that best likes mid-late 80's dance, 90's dance and hip hop, early naught dance and hip hop and a handful of current tunes. And, I think they fit there. This is not, though the "mainstream" 80's audience. They, actually are two separate audiences. Again, you find this through "cluster testing".
Let me address a couple other of your points.
Every city is different. And you can't make the judgement that what works in Tampa will work in Dayton. We found this out with WDPT. If you compare the music, there are differences in the "Point" stations. One was more Pop. Another was more alternative. Dayton was more rock. That's 'cause we all test the music. But, the only constant was the dance and urban did not test well.
When you talk Randy Michaels and Q-102, you're talking the mid to late 70's. By fairly early in the 80's, Randy was PD at WLW and was turning them around. So to compare that to the 80's audience is really not a valid comparison.
Z-93. You're correct, they were a lot bigger then than they are now. But, when Z came on the air in 1984, they didn't play a whole lot of dance music, either. And they were huge. That was the Mellencamp/2nd coming of Bruce/Huey Lewis/Bryan Adams era. That changed around 1987-1988 as the music itself changed. But, by then you had a new group of teenagers listening. I was there. I was a jock on Z-93 for a while.
Why have their numbers declined? Competition's a part of it. You didn't have Hot 102.9, or WROU then. Nor did you have a direct competitor in 94-5. I'm not sure that WDAO was around on FM by 1990. Some of the older end of the former Z audience has probably embraced Mix. Some have gone country to K-99.1. A lot of that has to do with the very disposable and very polarized music climate you see in "pop" music these days. That's affected the ratings of a lot of CHR stations nationwide. I think there are other factors too, some of which aren't necessarily in the control of the people in Dayton.
Don't misunderstand me. There are big CHR stations still. But, the format is not pulling the numbers it once did. What will it take to turn this around for CHR? Some type of change in the music itself for starters. No, I'm not saying "get rid of rap". I criticized CHR stations some years ago for ignoring the growing popularity of hip hop. But, today's music really seems as though it's "here today/gone tomorrow". And until new artists come along that grab the "mass appeal" audience (both the teenagers and the 30 something females) more so than they do, CHR's will still face challenges. Or, perhaps the audience really has fragmented to the point that a CHR in Z's type of situation will have to be really unique to get big numbers. I don't think today's "jukebox" CHR's will cut it there. That takes developing and/or hiring big personalities. That's just my opinion.
I hope I've addressed the issues you raised.
, but I did enjoy what I heard.