O
OldiesCat
Guest
mikenike1988 said:
And they're #17 in the market.
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Stations still doing 'traditional' Oldies
- Thread starter carolinaradio
- Start date
And they're #17 in the market.
M
MikeD2
Guest
Oldies Cat said:
Well I see Oldies cat is telling tales again. Radio people get turned on by 450 song playlists. Oldies fans get
turned on by larger playlists. Listeners like hearing songs they haven't heard in a long time and some enjoy
hearing on occasion, good songs they've never heard before. Obscure good songs should be put in rotation
but used sparingly as treats. Perhaps 3 or 4 a day.
Hell I received an E-mail from a listener after I played one song and he basically said I hated that song when
it came out, I still hate the song, but it was nice to hear it for the first time in years."
The problem is not so much the format as it is that we live and die by the numbers and that includes the agency
guys that do the buying.
MikeD
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OldiesCat
Guest
MikeD2 said:
Thanks for the high school station weekend jock perspective. Using an email as proof of something? It's anecdotal at best. Most radio listeners won't listen through an obscure song they hate. DUH.
(and, do your homework, Mike - talk about telling tales, I've consistently advocated playlists longer than 450 songs)
Programming Oldies is one of the most difficult formats. You should never play
"obscure" songs, however, for variety you can occasionally play songs that don't
"test" as well in research as long as they are "familiar". The whole Jack format is based on
that philosophy.
I did one music test with 1200 songs. Over 1000 were very "familiar", 90% of the people knew them.
900 songs scored pretty well, better than "average". Taking familiarity into account, we ended up playing
about 800 songs. Some more than others, obviously.
You have to research locally to KNOW what you can play.
"obscure" songs, however, for variety you can occasionally play songs that don't
"test" as well in research as long as they are "familiar". The whole Jack format is based on
that philosophy.
I did one music test with 1200 songs. Over 1000 were very "familiar", 90% of the people knew them.
900 songs scored pretty well, better than "average". Taking familiarity into account, we ended up playing
about 800 songs. Some more than others, obviously.
You have to research locally to KNOW what you can play.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
surfdude said:
Problem is that if it doesn't test well, they either don't like it or are pretty unfamiliar with the song. The key is finding songs below whatever your "cuttoff threshold" is that maybe don't score so high but don't have an unusually high number of unfamiliar or never liked scores.
I'd love to know who was in the room (your screener) and where you did a 1,200 song test and over 1000 titles were 90% "very familiar" with them because you would have THE most skewed, flawed and unusual AMT in the history of music research.
I said we spiked with songs "that don't test AS well", but that high familiarity.
These spike songs tested well above a "3" on a "5" scale, better than average.
We didn't play below average scoring songs.
The high number of familiars was because we tested late 50s through early 80s songs, not limiting ourselves to just the traditional Oldies titles. Elvis to Springsteen.
These spike songs tested well above a "3" on a "5" scale, better than average.
We didn't play below average scoring songs.
The high number of familiars was because we tested late 50s through early 80s songs, not limiting ourselves to just the traditional Oldies titles. Elvis to Springsteen.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
And what was the age spread in your screener?
Oldies Cat said:
One big factor why WCDG ranks so low is their signal. I don't think they can be heard in all of the Norfolk/Virginia Beach market. Hampton Roads ( Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Newport News, etc..) while they are not the biggest metro area in terms of population ( not quite 2 million ) but they more than make it up in terms of area. I used to vacation quite a bit in Virginia Beach for many years and even in that city, some of the more stronger, powerful stations in terms of signals like WNVZ ( Z104 ), WGH-FM and WWDE ( 2WD ), its not uncommon to hear even them fade out for a brief time at certain intersections near the Virginia Beach oceanfront.
M
MikeD2
Guest
Oldies Cat said:
Well Cat, Like I've told you before. I talk the talk and I walk the walk and I can prove it any time. Unlike you.
I don't hide who and where I am. When you can prove it then talk to me.
And I have don't deny that you have said 1,800, but even that is too small.
Mike Dane
WSTB-FM 88.9
TheSundayOldiesJukebox.com
O
OldiesCat
Guest
MikeD2 said:
A: I've NEVER advocated 1800 song playlists (there you go again-no homework)
B: Please stick to things you can handle, like the upcoming High School Dance after the big game next Friday. All your "I walk the walk" bluster means nothing when the pinnacle of your career is at a high school station. You make yourself look foolish and hollow.
M
MikeD2
Guest
I was wrong on this one. It was SuperRadioFan that advocated 1800 songs. Sorry 'bout that.Oldies Cat said:
Considering you've posted over 3000 messages it is kind of hard to search through them all to find the
figure you gave. But I'm working on it.
And like I've said before Cat, Prove to me what you claim and I will be happy to tell everybody in the
forum that I was wrong. I can prove I'm on the air any sunday night. And as far as I'm concerned that
pretty much goes for anyone here who gives me the "I've been in radio for 30 years and I know
everything and am the greatest" bullcrap. If you're going to talk the talk you better be able to prove
that you've walked the walk.
Mike Dane
WSTB-FM 88.9
www.SundayOldiesJukebox.com
I agree with "microbob," WAKY-FM 103.5 in Louisville is a great traditional oldies station. I listen to it all the time when I'm in Louisville.
MikeD2 said:
Geeeeezus, stop it, Mike, please. I'll say the same thing as Oldies Cat said. I have NEVER advocated an 1800 song playlist for an over the air radio station. Never. Never. On these boards, anyone can talk out of their behind as if it's the gospel truth. But when THEY are called out to prove it with a link to a post, THEY rarely can do it. :
Sorry, Mike, you did not do your homework.
M
MikeD2
Guest
Actually you're right, advocate is a bad choice of words, Here is a link to what you did say though and 1,800 songs isSuperRadioFan said:MikeD2 said:
Geeeeezus, stop it, Mike, please. I'll say the same thing as Oldies Cat said. I have NEVER advocated an 1800 song playlist for an over the air radio station. Never. Never. On these boards, anyone can talk out of their behind as if it's the gospel truth. But when THEY are called out to prove it with a link to a post, THEY rarely can do it. :
in it.
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,48941.msg358802.html#msg358802
And I do do my homework boys.
Mike Dane
I said: As to your assertion about 11,000 songs between 1955 and 1972, consider this...
Most year-end Top 100s of the day included mostly songs which made the Top 10 and some which peaked at between #11 and #20. 18 years x 100 songs = 1,800 songs that few people will remember all of them. That leaves over 9,000 songs and few will remember any of them so no "Wow" factor there, Mike.
You said:
Did you get your grade on this homework assignment? Because a "bad choice of words" --- the word "advocate" is the exact opposite of what I said. Was this your "mea culpa"?
Most year-end Top 100s of the day included mostly songs which made the Top 10 and some which peaked at between #11 and #20. 18 years x 100 songs = 1,800 songs that few people will remember all of them. That leaves over 9,000 songs and few will remember any of them so no "Wow" factor there, Mike.
You said:
MikeD2 said:
Did you get your grade on this homework assignment? Because a "bad choice of words" --- the word "advocate" is the exact opposite of what I said. Was this your "mea culpa"?
O
OldiesCat
Guest
AZJoe said:
And when those "real music experts" (listeners, not radio hacks posting on boards) tell us what they want and what they don't want to hear, it's not 1800 or even 1000 size playlists.
And, radio (as any successful business) is pretty simple: decide what product has the greatest shot at success, find out what your customers want and give it to them the way they tell you. When you have a large enough customer base and you run your business prudently, you'll generate revenue and turn a profit.
I think the fly in the ointment for the sour grapes crowd is "company" plus "profit". After all- radio's not a business, it's an art so we shouldn't run it like a business and expect to make some money doing it. We should just do it 'cuz we just love the music and talking up intros, just like the good ole days.
<barf>
P
palalwanabe
Guest
"As to your assertion about 11,000 songs between 1955 and 1972, consider this...
Most year-end Top 100s of the day included mostly songs which made the Top 10 and some which peaked at between #11 and #20. 18 years x 100 songs = 1,800 songs that few people will remember all of them. That leaves over 9,000 songs and few will remember any of them so no "Wow" factor there, Mike."
This statement may have been true in 1975, when Oldie's Radio Stations started popping up. But, after 32 years of hearing "Satisfaction" for the 2,897,678 time and "Wild Thing" and "Wipeout" etc., Commercial Oldies Stations are suffering a slow death, not the listeners, we baby boomers are living 5-10 years longer the the last generation.
Listeners are tuning in to Internet stations, some of which (www.live365.com) are offering over 10,000 stations of which about 2,500 are Oldies. And, oh my gosh, the Number 1 station ,voted by the listeners. not the program directors, is Diane J's "Golden Oldies" with a playlist well over 3,000. Also, on live365 a station called "Memory Tunes" (Programmed by George Wilson) which targets 65+ he is ranked #3 in just 13 months on the site, with a playlist of 2,307 and growing. Amazing, huh!!!, and it's FREE.
On the commercial side Ed, Fred, Lucy, Ethel, etc covering four decades and 4-6 Genre's are starting to make some serious noise across the country.
The Simple fact is that the ones who make or break a station is the listeners, and all the spin of "tune-out" and "obscure", and "unrecognizable", and "track record" is as tired, as "Satisfaction".
Oh, trust me , there are about 1,500 stations, on live365 that are playing "Traditional Oldies' and they are eating Diane J's dust. The key to a successful Station with a 3,000 plus library ,is so simple, that it's amazing how it is overlooked.
Oh yes, a young man by the name of Carlos Palacios, started a "TEX-MEX" station on live365, featuring Tex Mex Oldies, for those of you not raised in the Southwest, is Mexican artists mostly from Texas, that recorded both English and Spanish music, starting back in the early 60's. Again, a 5 star rating by the listeners, in the Oldies category, which is amazing, given that this is a new genre. Again a station with over 3,000 cuts.
Again, these successful stations as selected by the listeners, all share some unique programming, that is evident when you hear it. In closing, remember, it's a whole new ball game out there, the only "tune-out" happening, is to commercial Oldies.
Pal Al Wannabe ................George Play me some "Roses Of Picardi"
The Ayatollah Of Rock N' Rollah
Most year-end Top 100s of the day included mostly songs which made the Top 10 and some which peaked at between #11 and #20. 18 years x 100 songs = 1,800 songs that few people will remember all of them. That leaves over 9,000 songs and few will remember any of them so no "Wow" factor there, Mike."
This statement may have been true in 1975, when Oldie's Radio Stations started popping up. But, after 32 years of hearing "Satisfaction" for the 2,897,678 time and "Wild Thing" and "Wipeout" etc., Commercial Oldies Stations are suffering a slow death, not the listeners, we baby boomers are living 5-10 years longer the the last generation.
Listeners are tuning in to Internet stations, some of which (www.live365.com) are offering over 10,000 stations of which about 2,500 are Oldies. And, oh my gosh, the Number 1 station ,voted by the listeners. not the program directors, is Diane J's "Golden Oldies" with a playlist well over 3,000. Also, on live365 a station called "Memory Tunes" (Programmed by George Wilson) which targets 65+ he is ranked #3 in just 13 months on the site, with a playlist of 2,307 and growing. Amazing, huh!!!, and it's FREE.
On the commercial side Ed, Fred, Lucy, Ethel, etc covering four decades and 4-6 Genre's are starting to make some serious noise across the country.
The Simple fact is that the ones who make or break a station is the listeners, and all the spin of "tune-out" and "obscure", and "unrecognizable", and "track record" is as tired, as "Satisfaction".
Oh, trust me , there are about 1,500 stations, on live365 that are playing "Traditional Oldies' and they are eating Diane J's dust. The key to a successful Station with a 3,000 plus library ,is so simple, that it's amazing how it is overlooked.
Oh yes, a young man by the name of Carlos Palacios, started a "TEX-MEX" station on live365, featuring Tex Mex Oldies, for those of you not raised in the Southwest, is Mexican artists mostly from Texas, that recorded both English and Spanish music, starting back in the early 60's. Again, a 5 star rating by the listeners, in the Oldies category, which is amazing, given that this is a new genre. Again a station with over 3,000 cuts.
Again, these successful stations as selected by the listeners, all share some unique programming, that is evident when you hear it. In closing, remember, it's a whole new ball game out there, the only "tune-out" happening, is to commercial Oldies.
Pal Al Wannabe ................George Play me some "Roses Of Picardi"
The Ayatollah Of Rock N' Rollah
palalwanabe said:
Sigh..... Look I like a wide variety of oldies, with Oh Wow songs, but FEW people want to hear stiffs like ...hmm, let me open up my Whitburn... Gee Whiz [1961] by The Innocents (Carla Thomas' Gee Whiz also 1961 was a different song and a big hit, but still one shunned by all over the air oldies stations today); Here Comes Summer-Jerry Keller [1959]; Run Samson Run-Neil Sedaka [1960]; Barbara-The Temptations [1960] a different group from the Motown legends; even Top 10 songs like A Cowboys Work is Never Done-Sonny & Cher [1972] only popular because of their TV show, etc etc.
You mention 'these successful stations as selected by the listeners" on the Internet. Since you're new here I'm sure we'll all cut you some slack until you "get it", but just tell me how much income these successful Internet stations bring in to their operators???
And fuhgeddabout XM oldies channels like Fred and Ethel, etc. LOL.
A whole new ball game means nothing without revenue. Thank God these people do it because it's a hobby. THAT I appreciate but I hold no hope they will become the mainstream vehicle for music listening by the vast populace out there. But I will continue to listen to RichBroRadio et al along with Radio Paradise.com.
P
palalwanabe
Guest
You didn't hear me..............commercial oldies radio stations, key word commercial oldies stations, once the overall public discovers these internet stations, there will be no commercial oldies stations. and yes those songs you referred to, Babara by the temptaions (not the Motown Group) and Gee Whiz by the innocents (duh, of course a diffent version...... the problem is you had to go to the Whitburn book to cite these cuts, the programmers on live365 already knew them) as matter of fact all of the songs you refered to as stiffs, are the staple of these new stations, you go on listening to RichBroradio and Paradise .com, and "I Can't Help Myself" for 22 millionth time, but pretty soon you may be the only one listening. And since it's revenue you want to talk about, the listeners don't care about revenue, and by the time commercial station managers wake up and smell the cappuccino there will be no Oldies staions and there will no revenue.
You said "I don't get it" buddy wake up, you don't get it!!! You are writing me on a computer, you program your station on a computer, you stream on a computer, you can't buy a cup of coffee without a computer, and you tell me that no one listens on the internet, I ask you, 'Who doesn't get it".
And thanks for cutting me some slack, anytime you want to "go green" on this board without a book in front of you, just whistle ..........you do know how to whistle don't you, just put your lips together and BLOW.
Pal Al Wannabe
The Ayatollah of Rock n' Rollah
You said "I don't get it" buddy wake up, you don't get it!!! You are writing me on a computer, you program your station on a computer, you stream on a computer, you can't buy a cup of coffee without a computer, and you tell me that no one listens on the internet, I ask you, 'Who doesn't get it".
And thanks for cutting me some slack, anytime you want to "go green" on this board without a book in front of you, just whistle ..........you do know how to whistle don't you, just put your lips together and BLOW.
Pal Al Wannabe
The Ayatollah of Rock n' Rollah
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