streaming OTA radio has its downfaults...

[JH_Radio]

Something I can say in the past 10 years, audio has gotten alot better.
Problem is that processing (due to the net having its own camersials) is different. things aren't as tight in the presentation. There are dead spots on some stations. If songs do play they can be cut off. Is processing not central per company? why can't you fit things in (say you run 5 minutes of camersials), why can't you put 5 minutes of something else? Is this hard to due because the over the air signal and web signal run at different times (the web signal is behind the air signal due to buffering?) Its the stuff between the music that sounds well, not like radio at all. Maybe the next ten years will fix that. I'm talkin the audio only here.

 

[xmusicmatt]

Things being cut off on the internet feed when they go to local com break is just sloppy timing on the automation part.. It's possible to have it not do to that.

What most of these systems do is that the automation system sends a command to the stream software at the start of commerical to start filler content (which causes the streamer to switch from a program feed to stream only audio) at the end of the spot block the stream encoder switches back to the program feed.. If care is taken you can get it to be seemless..

Some stations do care.. locally one of the Clear Channel stations was severly cutting off the breaks and I mentioned something and they responded to me "thanks for letting us know, well get that fixed" and later that day I noticed it had been fixed.

 

[JH_Radio]

okay tha'ts good, but how about the processing issues? the program feed has processing from the air chain right? but the processing isn't on the feed that is comeing from the stream software.
Now maybe the thinking behind this is if you process the audio from the stream software, then when the program feed kicks in it will be double processed which would make the program feed sound crappy.
Is it possible to process the stream software seprit, then fed the program feed unprocessed, no compressors limitors etc so then the sound wont varry between the two feeds? the stream software would be in charge of the processing, and no matter what was running through the software the sound would be the same.
the problem with doing that is that the processing for the anolog feed vs the web feed could sound different. though unless you were in the markit that the station was in you wouldn't notice a difference. Has anyone ever done it that way before?

 

[landtuna]

One of the most irritating things about streaming radio to me is the silence on the stream when the OTA goes to commercial. I would much rather listen to a commercial than wonder if my stream died.

Interestingly, there seem to be some streamers who manage to air commercials over both OTA and the stream without interruption. It must depend upon the commercial or the spot talent for I can't imagine an advertiser not wanting to reach as many people as possible even though they might be out of market.

 

[KeithE4]

One of the most irritating things about streaming radio to me is the silence on the stream when the OTA goes to commercial. I would much rather listen to a commercial than wonder if my stream died.

Or at least do what the NFL does with its audio streams. If the originating station isn't allowed to run a commercial online (and some commercials do run), they put music with a "We'll be right back" announcement in its place.

Interestingly, there seem to be some streamers who manage to air commercials over both OTA and the stream without interruption. It must depend upon the commercial or the spot talent for I can't imagine an advertiser not wanting to reach as many people as possible even though they might be out of market.

From what I understand, it's not only an advertiser's decision, but it depends on the performers' unions (if any). Some union contracts don't allow for streaming their work. I think these contracts are going away, since I hear more advertising online now than in years past - even local ads from businesses that don't need to be heard outside their own markets (such as car dealers, for example).

 

[JH_Radio]

what of the processing issue from the OTA feed and the web streaming software being different?

 

[FightingIrish]

Things being cut off on the internet feed when they go to local com break is just sloppy timing on the automation part.. It's possible to have it not do to that.

What most of these systems do is that the automation system sends a command to the stream software at the start of commerical to start filler content (which causes the streamer to switch from a program feed to stream only audio) at the end of the spot block the stream encoder switches back to the program feed.. If care is taken you can get it to be seemless..

Some stations do care.. locally one of the Clear Channel stations was severly cutting off the breaks and I mentioned something and they responded to me "thanks for letting us know, well get that fixed" and later that day I noticed it had been fixed.

Clear Channel stations seem to do streaming breaks pretty seamlessly. Occasionally, I do hear some glitches. I've noticed on their music stations that they play certain songs during breaks (i.e. "Cutie Pie" by One Way on KISQ in San Francisco). Seem to time it right. Occasionally, it will return to a spot/traffic report/etc. in progress, but I can't imagine the whole process being perfect. CC does tend to put in songs during breaks on their streams, rather than rely on online-only ads (surprise!) or Ad Council filler.

The Citadel/Cumulus stations have stream-exclusive ads, mostly dry reads from insurance and web-based companies. Occasional PSAs.

CBS streams have mostly promos for CBS products (phone apps, other O&O stations, TV shows).

As for the rest, it varies. I listen to WRLT in Nashville occasionally, which uses music filler. A bit sloppy though, as the song cuts off abruptly at the end of the break.

 

[JH_Radio]

forgive me. but i have been thinkin that a few of my posts have not been going through which is why i asked the question about the processing a second time. sorry about that!

 

[KeithE4]

forgive me. but i have been thinkin that a few of my posts have not been going through which is why i asked the question about the processing a second time. sorry about that!

They had some problems with that yesterday morning & early afternoon. Some of my posts disappeared and reappeared as well. Looks like it's fixed now.

 

[nitnitr]

If an OTA station is smart, they will feed the online stream with the processing from the station, and bypass any processing on their stream feed, other than maybe something that will look for spikes, so the stream doesn't get the overdrive phenomenon.

Most off board processing will be better than can be obtained with on board processing. This is my opinion of course. Still, there is an inherent difference between OTA and streaming. Another way would be to feed the raw source separately to the stream processing, just as it occurs with the OTA stream processing, and let each do its thing before sending it to the masses.

 

[JH_Radio]

That was my thought. feeding the raw sorce directly to the stream, and letting a processor on the stream do its thing, different then the processor for the OTA broadcast.

 

[xmusicmatt]

If an OTA station is smart, they will feed the online stream with the processing from the station, and bypass any processing on their stream feed, other than maybe something that will look for spikes, so the stream doesn't get the overdrive phenomenon.

You don't want to feed the OTA Processing to a webstream.. How you process for an FM signal is different than what you would feed to a 64kbps encoder.. Each should be processed on it's own.

 

[nitnitr]

That was my thought. feeding the raw sorce directly to the stream, and letting a processor on the stream do its thing, different then the processor for the OTA broadcast.

Feeding a source for streaming to a processor might be the best way. There are several good processors out there for digital streaming. Breakaway is a good unit, but costs a bunch for most Internet station budgets, but Stereo Tool is available too, and does a decent job, even with their free version.

 

[scanman1]

I have to agree with all who say audio for streaming and OTA should be processed seperately. If the audio, which is usually preemphasized for OTA broadcast is fed to the webstream, it sounds horrible!

 

[RDO]

What kind of recommendations do you have for processing the internet audio?

 

[borderblaster]

I wish the unions and the industry could figure out how stations could run the on-air spots. I don't know why the timing of the breaks can't match. I love WCBS-FM but can hardly stand the dead air, mistimed breaks, etc. I suppose it doesn't help that radio.com is also trying to feed local ads so I can hear an ad for a Dayton, Ohio car dealer on a New York radio station.

 

[xmusicmatt]

I wish the unions and the industry could figure out how stations could run the on-air spots. I don't know why the timing of the breaks can't match. I love WCBS-FM but can hardly stand the dead air, mistimed breaks, etc. I suppose it doesn't help that radio.com is also trying to feed local ads so I can hear an ad for a Dayton, Ohio car dealer on a New York radio station.

The timing of the breaks CAN match -- if the person programming the automation side of things does it right (and it's set up right from the get-go) -- the "mixing" of the on air programming and the web only programming happens before the encoder "line-in" -- there is no delay in this area -- so IT IS possible to have it always be seamless if you "care" enough to set it up right.

 

[GeneSavage]

I think the stations should be FORCED to feed a de-emphasized audio feed to the encoder, for two reasons:

#1 - Those outside the local market can hear what they sound like OTA.

and

#2 - Maybe some stations would finally back off their "nailed to the wall" processing!

(Of course I'm joking about forcing the stations to do it... but it IS frustrating to hear a stream that has little to nothing to do with what broadcast listeners are hearing.)

 

[nitnitr]

I wish the unions and the industry could figure out how stations could run the on-air spots. I don't know why the timing of the breaks can't match. I love WCBS-FM but can hardly stand the dead air, mistimed breaks, etc. I suppose it doesn't help that radio.com is also trying to feed local ads so I can hear an ad for a Dayton, Ohio car dealer on a New York radio station.

The timing of the breaks CAN match -- if the person programming the automation side of things does it right (and it's set up right from the get-go) -- the "mixing" of the on air programming and the web only programming happens before the encoder "line-in" -- there is no delay in this area -- so IT IS possible to have it always be seamless if you "care" enough to set it up right.

My point was that off-board processing is generally better than computer software, but pre-emphasis is used most often with OTA, while there isn't a need for such in streaming. Still, if there is a way to use off board processing, without the pre, in a stream, I still think that is a better way to go.

If not, Stereo Tool, Breakaway, Audioproc and some others will do the job for most streaming stations via computer software. Not a big fan of Sound Solutions, but some can make it work for their stations too.

 

[stewie]

What kind of recommendations do you have for processing the internet audio?

I highly recommend the Orban PC1101e audio cards. It's the equivalent of an Optimod 8500 and sounds amazing. Most Clear Channel stations use them including my stations.