Strong AM signals

[jd]

See, here's something I don't get. These stations go to directional patterns (sometimes quite severe) to protect each other, yet seem to be heard well into these supposed nulls at nighttime.

That's a good observation and it basically sums up what we're discussing here. Appearances can be deceiving when it comes to looking at a station's pattern and it's best to look at the overall protection in the general direction of a station and not in a narrow area.

Here in Ohio, I commonly hear both KRLD and WTIC even though they are supposed to throw mutual nulls at each other.

While KRLD and WTIC do "mutually" protect each other at night they have rather gentle protection patterns with just two towers so they don't appear to have "nulls" in the usual sense.

The situation on 1080 is rather unique and has been that way since 1941. WTIC is still allowed to stay non-directional until sunset at the KRLD site but things have recently changed, at least on paper. This happened as the result of an application by a station in Michigan (WOAP); they were wanting to upgrade from a 1kW daytimer to 50kW day/4.5kW night, relocating from Owasso to the Lansing area. It was calculated that they could operate with only 25 watts after sunset if they had to give "skywave" protection to WTIC during its "extended daytime pattern operation." But after a lengthy legal battle the upgrade was granted and WTIC's license was modified to show that they will receive protection only to their groundwave coverage area during that period when they're operating with their "extended daytime pattern." Incidentally, the fact that two stations lying between WTIC and KRLD (a full-timer in Louisville and a daytimer in Pittsburgh) had come on the air in the late 1940's was mentioned but eventually was not allowed to be taken into consideration.

 

[stationless listener]

I'm in NYC and, one night a couple of months ago, I was in the car on my way home. It was around 7:40 pm and darkness had already set in. So I was flipping through the AM channels when I got to 1100 and then heard Cleveland Cavaliers basketball play-by-play ongoing. I was going "What the...?" for a while and then was getting amused that I could get to hear them call every Lebron James basket. ;D

WTAM does come in on my ministereo in my room pretty strongly on some nights.

 

[Len14043]

And you'd think WWKB could only be heard east, north, and south of Buffalo but some here also say they can get it hundreds of miles west too.

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WWKB&service=AM&status=L&hours=U

My best all-time catch was hearing WKBW from Buffalo in Eastern Nevada. This was in the late 70's on a night when KOMA from Oklahoma City was off for maintenance. Around the same time, WHAM from Rochester was the most reliable catch from the east when KOFI from Kalispel, Montana signed off at midnight. All of the NYC clears had co-channel interferers but I heard WCBS once when KRVN from Lexington was off the air. WBZ was impossible because KTWO blasted in from Casper, WY.

 

[BRNout]

My best all-time catch was hearing WKBW from Buffalo in Eastern Nevada. This was in the late 70's on a night when KOMA from Oklahoma City was off for maintenance. Around the same time, WHAM from Rochester was the most reliable catch from the east when KOFI from Kalispel, Montana signed off at midnight. All of the NYC clears had co-channel interferers but I heard WCBS once when KRVN from Lexington was off the air. WBZ was impossible because KTWO blasted in from Casper, WY.

Back in February of 1987, I picked up WBZ under KTWO on a simple Walkman from Park City, UT. Odder still, it was from an interior room (the window faced an atrium). It was in the background, but clearly audible and I was amazed to get a positive ID. Hasn't happened for me since then - not even with better equipment.

Nowadays, the farthest west I've copied WBZ was Sioux Falls, SD. As Don Mussell said in another thread, there's too much noise on the band.

 

[jd]

Nowadays, the farthest west I've copied WBZ was Sioux Falls, SD. As Don Mussell said in another thread, there's too much noise on the band.

Yes, and to further beat the dead horse, the break-up of the clear channels, the FCC's inaction on the AM stereo issue, then the explosion of all things RF and the thrashing from IBOC have essentially destroyed much of the band, even for the casual (non-DX) listener.

I QSL'ed a moderately strong WBZ in suburban Dallas many years ago, with the aid of an indoor loop to null the Mexico City station. Other stations like KDKA, WHAM, KYW/WKYC (now WTAM), all the Chicago powerhouse stations (except for WCFL, now WMVP) and even Virginia's WRVA were fairly easy catches back then. The NYC clears were not really that difficult to log; WCBS was best, but that was before KRVN signed on. I verified WABC and I even remember hearing WINS once when the long silenced KLRA 1010 Little Rock was off the air for maintenance.

There are still a number of stations that put excellent signals into here (like KOA, WOAI and WWL), but many others are noticeably inferior: KDKA, WLAC and KSL, for instance, and then there's undoubtedly the worst, WLS. Considering the noise level these days, a decent signal from WBZ in this part of Texas is pretty much wishful thinking unless you really work at it.

 

[YEKIMI]

WTAM from Cleveland used to be WWWE. They are one of those 50,000 watts clear channel stations [ironically owned by Clear Channel nowadays]. They have been known to have been heard in South Africa several times and even in Austrailia a couple of times. Now THAT'S DXing!

 

[jd]

WTAM from Cleveland used to be WWWE.

I know that, but the call letters in the time frame I'm referring to were pre-"3W-E." It was a long time ago. The KYW story is complicated; they began in 1921 as a Chicago station, moved to Philadelphia, then to Cleveland and finally back to Philly in 1965. Prior to their return the Philadelphia station on 1060 had used the call letters WRCV for about nine years while the KYW calls were in Cleveland.

 

[Icangelp]

WTAM from Cleveland used to be WWWE.

I know that, but the call letters in the time frame I'm referring to were pre-"3W-E." It was a long time ago. The KYW story is complicated; they began in 1921 as a Chicago station, moved to Philadelphia, then to Cleveland and finally back to Philly in 1965. Prior to their return the Philadelphia station on 1060 had used the call letters WRCV for about nine years while the KYW calls were in Cleveland.

KYW Cleveland. I remember it well.

Heard two of the very best 60's nightime DJs, Jack Armstrong & Dick "Wild Child" Kemp for the first time on KYW 1100.

 

[boiseengineer]

I think sometimes it happens because the patterns are temporarily out of whack

BSTA 20100126ADK STA E KGA 11234 AM GRANTED 01/27/2010

RADIO STATION KGA, 1510 KHZ, SPOKANE, WASHINGTON IS STILL IN THE
PROCESS OF PROOFING ITS NEW 4-TOWER NIGHTTIME DIRECTIONAL PHASING SYSTEM. SINCE THE KGA LICENSE APPLICATION MUST BE FILED CONCURRENTLY WITH THE LICENSE APPLICATION FOR THE NEW NIGHTTIME FACILITY FOR RADIO STATION KPIG, 1510 KHZ, PIEDMONT, CALIFORNIA, KGA MUST REMAIN ON AN STA UNTIL THE ONGOING WORK ON KPIG IS COMPLETE.

KGA HAS AN STA AUTHORIZING IT TO OPERATE ITS NIGHTTIME FACILITY NONDIRECTIONALLY AT 25% LICENSED POWER (12.5 KW) ON A NON-INTERFERENCE BASIS DURING THE CONSTRUCTION AND PROOF. HOWEVER, KGA HAS RECENTLY BEEN CONTACTED BY RADIO STATION KCKK, 1510 KHZ, LITTLETON, COLORADO WITH REGARD TO REPORTED INTERFERENCE COMPLAINTS FROM KCKK LISTENERS. KGA PERSONNEL HAVE WORKED WITH KCKK TO ALLEVIATE THE INTERFERENCE CONCERNS. TESTING HAS DEMONSTRATED THAT OPERATING AT 1/4 NIGHTTIME POWER (12.5 KW) WITH THE LICENSED KGA DAYTIME PATTERN, WHICH HAS A MINIMA TOWARD LITTLETON, COLORADO, HAS, THUS FAR, RESOLVED THE MATTER TO THE SATISFACTION OF KCKK. THEREFORE, RADIO STATION KGA REQUESTS A MODIFICATION TO ITS CURRENT STA TO ALLOW OPERATION AT NIGHT ON THE LICENSED DAYTIME PATTERN AT 12.5 KW. KGA WILL MAINTAIN CONTACT WITH KCKK TO ENSURE THAT, IF ANY FURTHER INTERFERENCE REPORTS ARISE, THEY ARE ADDRESSED IN A TIMELY MANNER.

 

[foreverchanges1975]

On the theory a few pages back that the west coast signals may always be there in other parts of the country....

Once I was listening to WDIA here in Memphis when for a few minutes it went off the air. I heard a quiet signal, turned the radio up, and what do you know, it was KNX.

 

[w9wi]

KGA HAS AN STA AUTHORIZING IT TO OPERATE ITS NIGHTTIME FACILITY NONDIRECTIONALLY AT 25% LICENSED POWER (12.5 KW) ON A NON-INTERFERENCE BASIS DURING THE CONSTRUCTION AND PROOF. HOWEVER, KGA HAS RECENTLY BEEN CONTACTED BY RADIO STATION KCKK, 1510 KHZ, LITTLETON, COLORADO WITH REGARD TO REPORTED INTERFERENCE COMPLAINTS FROM KCKK

Ah, so they're pretty much ready to go...

My logging of KGA was well before the switch to class B to let KPIG upgrade thing came along. They were still 50kw DA-N.

But I'd imagine they would have been loggable in the East during the period they were running 50kw/12.5kw ND. Would have to take a look at the new day pattern to see whether it should work now -- probably not, if going from ND to day pattern fixes problems for KCKK.

 

[BRNout]

But I'd imagine they would have been loggable in the East during the period they were running 50kw/12.5kw ND.

Ah, but there is the matter of WLAC Nashville in the east. It's 50 kw signal pretty much owns 1510 from my location near Chicago. If they were off - that would be a different story.

 

[vibe]

In the movie The Buddy Holly Story Buddy sits with his gal in his car and listens to music from AM's all over the country one night.

 

[travisl5678]

i picked up KGA last night near San Francisco,I have Picked up KFNN their recently

 

[travisl5678]

i heard that in the 30's WLW ran at 500,000 watts, some people that lived near the transmitter heard WLW on the springs of their mattresses at night

 

[ddsparxx]

i heard that in the 30's WLW ran at 500,000 watts, some people that lived near the transmitter heard WLW on the springs of their mattresses at night

I find that interesting. Perhaps the huge power may have caused mattress coils to be acting as inductors and/or speakers???

 

[BRNout]

i heard that in the 30's WLW ran at 500,000 watts, some people that lived near the transmitter heard WLW on the springs of their mattresses at night

There were all sorts of tales told about how lights burned brighter near the transmitter site and how the signal seeped into all sorts of odd things. I'm positive that it must have interfered with telephone lines because I have experienced a similar phenomena myself living near a 10 kw transmitter site. Some of this history is documented (including the side-effects) in a narrative written by John Price

 

[YEKIMI]

and here's a Wikipedia article on WLW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLW

 

[w9wi]

Ah, but there is the matter of WLAC Nashville in the east. It's 50 kw signal pretty much owns 1510 from my location near Chicago. If they were off - that would be a different story.

Not if you're in one of WLAC's nulls, like I am!

I'm 15 miles from the WLAC towers, but regularly hear identifiable signals under WLAC. Some nights, just before Joliet sunset, the 1510 station from there will be so strong it will cover WLAC!

WLAC and KGA are co-equal -- have nulls in each other's directions. If you're between Nashville and Spokane & the latter is non-DA, you stand a chance of hearing it...