Stupid question

[mike704]

The baby boomers are now in the same position as their parents once were. Still when some of our parents were listening to WBEN, WEBR, and WGR they had new music to listen to by their favorite artists Sinatra, Como, Mancini...etc.

Listening to one of our 2 AC stations where I live I was struck but the fact there isn't much new product on the air. What is new is wattered down teen hits (some of it is pretty good), no country cross overs and nothing new by established artist like Ronstadt, Taylor, and Simon (Carly). They are still making music so what's the problem?

I'd also like to know did the four stations listed above sweat the ratings as much as stations do today? If so they were remarkably stable for a long time except for maybe WGR which tried Top 40 for awhile.

Thanks!

 

[Bob1370]

> The baby boomers are now in the same position as their
> parents once were. Still when some of our parents were
> listening to WBEN, WEBR, and WGR they had new music to
> listen to by their favorite artists Sinatra, Como,
> Mancini...etc.
>
> Listening to one of our 2 AC stations where I live I was
> struck but the fact there isn't much new product on the air.
> What is new is wattered down teen hits (some of it is pretty
> good), no country cross overs and nothing new by established
> artist like Ronstadt, Taylor, and Simon (Carly). They are
> still making music so what's the problem?
>
> I'd also like to know did the four stations listed above
> sweat the ratings as much as stations do today? If so they
> were remarkably stable for a long time except for maybe WGR
> which tried Top 40 for awhile.
>
> Thanks!

They absolutely took ratings seriously. Arbitron and Pulse (remember them?) only surveyed the market in the spring and fall back then, and those were anxious times-although until the mid-1970s most station owners and managers believed you didn't do something drastic to your station's brand image in response to a down book, just fine-tuned to bring your target listenership back in the fold.

But when your traditional target clientele started aging out, as some stations began to experience after about 1970-75, that was time for bigger changes. WBEN, looking at its audience fading into the sunset in the late 1970s, sweated the ratings to the point that its new owners became convinced of the need for an extreme makeover. So they completely reinvented it in 1978-79 as a full service AC station...I remember it, I was there, and it worked. The core audience they grabbed in bits and pieces from a variety of other stations back then, the men and women born between 1930 and 1955, became their new core audience then, and remains their core audience today. Took 'em back to #1 overall by the spring of 1980 and they really haven't look back; that was a big part of Larry Levite's legacy, which ended with a surprisingly smooth and graceful evolution from full service AC to talk just before he sold his stations and semi-retired. But now it's time for another makeover to connect more effectively with what should be their new core---people born 1950 to 1980.

 

[Philip_Airtime]

> They absolutely took ratings seriously. Arbitron and Pulse
> (remember them?) only surveyed the market in the spring and
> fall back then, and those were anxious times-although until
> the mid-1970s most station owners and managers believed you
> didn't do something drastic to your station's brand image in
> response to a down book, just fine-tuned to bring your
> target listenership back in the fold.
>
> But when your traditional target clientele started aging
> out, as some stations began to experience after about
> 1970-75, that was time for bigger changes. WBEN, looking at
> its audience fading into the sunset in the late 1970s,
> sweated the ratings to the point that its new owners became
> convinced of the need for an extreme makeover. So they
> completely reinvented it in 1978-79 as a full service AC
> station...I remember it, I was there, and it worked. The
> core audience they grabbed in bits and pieces from a variety
> of other stations back then, the men and women born between
> 1930 and 1955, became their new core audience then, and
> remains their core audience today. Took 'em back to #1
> overall by the spring of 1980 and they really haven't look
> back; that was a big part of Larry Levite's legacy, which
> ended with a surprisingly smooth and graceful evolution from
> full service AC to talk just before he sold his stations and
> semi-retired. But now it's time for another makeover to
> connect more effectively with what should be their new
> core---people born 1950 to 1980.
>
Bob, since you there, perhaps you can enlighten us further. But my recollection of WBEN in the late 70s is that the old managers of WBEN, who were running it for the Butler family before the sale to Levite, actually made the change to an AC format. That was when Clint Beuhlman was forced to retire. Stan Barron was let go. They brought over Jay Fredericks from KB. They used the slogan "93-BEN." And I thought it sucked! It didn't sound like WBEN. If I wanted music, I listened to KB or Q-FM-97, not WBEN. When Levite bought the station, he scaled back that change. He dropped the inane "93-BEN." "WBEN Radio News" returned. He re-hired Stan Barron and brought back Free Form Sports. Clint was resurrected on Sundays for a while. Yes, Larry kept the updated music mix. But I must admit I NEVER listened to WBEN for the music. They could have played Chinese Gong Music for all I cared. I think that I, and most of listeners, tuned to WBEN for the news and the personalties. The music was simply the "fill" between those elements. Maybe this is a big assumption on my part but the fact that WBEN didn't lose audience when it dropped the music in the early 1990s is evidence of that. I think Larry understood that news and information was the franchise, allowing him to maintain WBEN as a successful entity until he sold it.

 

[mike704]

> They absolutely took ratings seriously. Arbitron and Pulse
> (remember them?) only surveyed the market in the spring and
> fall back then, and those were anxious times-although until
> the mid-1970s most station owners and managers believed you
> didn't do something drastic to your station's brand image in
> response to a down book, just fine-tuned to bring your
> target listenership back in the fold.
>
> But when your traditional target clientele started aging
> out, as some stations began to experience after about
> 1970-75, that was time for bigger changes. WBEN, looking at
> its audience fading into the sunset in the late 1970s,
> sweated the ratings to the point that its new owners became
> convinced of the need for an extreme makeover. So they
> completely reinvented it in 1978-79 as a full service AC
> station...I remember it, I was there, and it worked. The
> core audience they grabbed in bits and pieces from a variety
> of other stations back then, the men and women born between
> 1930 and 1955, became their new core audience then, and
> remains their core audience today. Took 'em back to #1
> overall by the spring of 1980 and they really haven't look
> back; that was a big part of Larry Levite's legacy, which
> ended with a surprisingly smooth and graceful evolution from
> full service AC to talk just before he sold his stations and
> semi-retired. But now it's time for another makeover to
> connect more effectively with what should be their new
> core---people born 1950 to 1980.
>

Yes I heard the change in WBEN on visits there. The station had that old line MOR sound for longer than most. Seems I remember a business used to sponsor an entire quarter hour and the commercials were not clustered.

The station I worked at in the '70's made a similar change before I got there, probably around 1970. They still featured some of the older artists but things like Paul McCartney doing "My Love" started getting airplay on the station.

Bob, do you remember a guy by the name of Charlie Warren? He did afternoons on WBEN for awhile and went on to WWSW in Pittsburgh. I worked with Charlie in Fort Lauderdale at WFTL. Never heard why he didn't stay at WBEN very long. Last I heard he was doing talk at WMAL Washington but I don't think he's on the air anymore.

Mike

 

[Bob1370]

> The station I worked at in the '70's made a similar change
> before I got there, probably around 1970. They still
> featured some of the older artists but things like Paul
> McCartney doing "My Love" started getting airplay on the
> station.

'BEN actually made fits and starts at the transition even before 1978 but the old management never got the transition quite right, old and new formatics and elements were thrown together in a way that was jarring. What Levite and his PD Bob Wood accomplished, that made it all work, was to integrate it seamlessly into a sound that was consistent and personality-driven.

> Bob, do you remember a guy by the name of Charlie Warren?
> He did afternoons on WBEN for awhile and went on to WWSW in
> Pittsburgh. I worked with Charlie in Fort Lauderdale at
> WFTL. Never heard why he didn't stay at WBEN very long.
> Last I heard he was doing talk at WMAL Washington but I
> don't think he's on the air anymore.
>
> Mike

Sure do remember Charlie. He left soon after Algonquin took over, even though we wanted him to stay; he got a big-bucks offer from one of the leading AC stations in Pittsburgh (which IIRC was his home town) that he thought he couldn't refuse, and later ended up doing about 15 years at WMAL. A nice guy, a talented personality; if he's on the beach other than by choice (he would be at retirement age now) I can't imagine it'll be for long.

Losing Charlie in the late summer of '78 caused some front office anxiety; fortunately for us, Jack Mindy became available at that time, and we snapped him up and enjoyed a long run of success with him in afternoon drive.

 

[Bob1370]

> Bob, since you there, perhaps you can enlighten us further.
> But my recollection of WBEN in the late 70s is that the old
> managers of WBEN, who were running it for the Butler family
> before the sale to Levite, actually made the change to an AC
> format.

Your recollection was good, but what was happening in 1975 and 1976 at WBEN was a good example of what you get when a remake is herky-jerky and incomplete, juxtaposing new and old elements in an incoherent and sometimes jarring way. Larry and his PD Bob Wood took things apart and put them back together in a different, smoother, more consistent and integrated way, and that's one reason it worked.

> That was when Clint Beuhlman was forced to retire.
> Stan Barron was let go. They brought over Jay Fredericks
> from KB. They used the slogan "93-BEN." And I thought it
> sucked! It didn't sound like WBEN. If I wanted music, I
> listened to KB or Q-FM-97, not WBEN.

That's my point. The transition was jarring, uncoordinated, and incomplete. The new crew made it complete and consistent.

> When Levite bought the
> station, he scaled back that change. He dropped the inane
> "93-BEN." "WBEN Radio News" returned. He re-hired Stan
> Barron and brought back Free Form Sports.

Stan Barron's canning in 1976 was a clear mistake because he had wide appeal to 25-49 males, who started deserting the station in droves when he left. He came back and a lot of them came back. And he fit well with the whole concept of WBEN as a personality station catering to the 25=49 audience. As far as Clint Buehlmann was concerned, he hit 65 and that was it.


> Yes, Larry kept the
> updated music mix. But I must admit I NEVER listened to
> WBEN for the music. They could have played Chinese Gong
> Music for all I cared. I think that I, and most of
> listeners, tuned to WBEN for the news and the personalties.
> The music was simply the "fill" between those elements.
> Maybe this is a big assumption on my part but the fact that
> WBEN didn't lose audience when it dropped the music in the
> early 1990s is evidence of that. I think Larry understood
> that news and information was the franchise, allowing him to
> maintain WBEN as a successful entity until he sold it.
>
And did you notice how thoroughly news was remade? By 1980, the whole news team with the exception of Lou Douglas and ND Jim McLaighlin was aged between 25 and 35...right in our prime demo. And the sound of the news was so much more up tempo, you wouldn't have recognized it as WBEN news if you'd been away for a while. (I remember I was told when I was hired in 1978 that part of my job was to give the morning newscasts more of a 'KB sound, while preserving the hard news emphasis.)