I did not say I was a big fan. I said they were among my favorites. There were many singers of that type back then both Black and white (I could have named Bing Crosby as well). I wasn't being a champion rather pointing out simply there were many Black singers/musicians in my life from an early age. If I liked a song I listened to it. If not I didn't, no matter who the actual performer was.
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Survey Shows Gen-Z Not Listening To Radio
- Thread starter Kelly A
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When a person of very limited, if at all, talent mushes together a hate message with a definite downbeat it is not art. You would not classify a Jackson Pollack painting as real talented art - it's just visual noise. Just like this junk. Art, in all its many forms is supposed to be beautiful/meaningful to the recipient. Rap is musical thuggery put to a beat.
Who knows just how Boone was convinced to sing "Tutti-Frutti" but that is also ignoring the many other hits of a more serious nature he had. I remember "Love Letters in the Sand" being a giant hit with my peers way back then. And that song was much more reflective of his style. At one time he was the post popular singer in the country. That must count for something.
I almost always have the radio going in the car whether other people are in the car with me or not BUT they are rarely listening intently to it. They are watching or listening to their hand held devices or talking with someone else. Radio, unless I am traveling alone, is simply background noise.
Never mind that beautiful to you is not remotely the standard, rap music most certainly connects meaningfully to its audience. They have different experiences and the music speaks to them. The lyrics can be powerful and emotional and speak to a life you choose to dismiss. Wonder that the reason could be.
Of course. They likely have a personal device that gives them what they want. Since they're passengers, it doesn't have to be restricted to audio. They can play games or watch TV. That's what the Gen Zs I know do. TV is far more engaging.
They have any number of sources which are not radio. Just yesterday a couple of people at work (both Gen Z) were going down the list of shows they had tickets to over the next few months. None of which they found through radio. Do I recognize any of them? Well...one (Polyphia) and I'm making mental notes to check out some of the others. Will I like them? Maybe, maybe not (I'm seriously thinking of going to the Polyphia show), but I'm always open to discovering new music.
In fact, I'm making a conscious effort to not be that "old guy" who shouts "you kids today...you don't know real music!" I like Johnny Mathis and Nat King Cole just fine, but if I can learn about new music from "the kids today," then maybe I can stave off the inevitable fossilization of my listening habits.
It does mean something, if you want it to. I will never tell anyone what art is, or good music is, or any other subjective determination. We should agree to disagree-we are all unique, with differing life experiences. I just turned 68, and I was constantly exposed to various musical genres, and have continued that for many decades. I love the oldies, but there are many such songs that I hope to never hear again. There is a lot of great (at least for me) music being created now, but, of course, not everyone will ever agree. If you air a song that glorifies violence toward anyone, regardless of genre, I will not be a fan. That is only my opinion, which I hopefully will never impose on anyone. The words ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are useless in virtually any context.
I do not have a problem with it either. And come to think of it my post said "only" which was wrong, as there is no age range that a song type can appeal to or not! Most of the music I liked when I was younger was most likely different from the "norm" anyway (as is apparent from my many conversations here), even though I listened to the radio as my primary source of music, so I would not be one to talk down to younger individuals about their taste in music. (Unless of course they like "Kiss Me Thru The Phone.")
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From reading the interesting posts in this thread, it could be said that the tech giants came in and swooped up many audiences (including most forums that used to exist on the 'net).
Just as CHRs would cater to teens at night to build the next wave of their audience as they got older (it was a brilliant strategy and i had never considered that angle as to the reason why they did this), today's younger audiences go to various apps and they will likely stick with that.
When the next disruptive tech comes along someday, many of today's TikTok users will still be using an app for their entertainment because that's what they grew up on while the following generations use whatever the new tech is...........and the beat goes on.
Just as CHRs would cater to teens at night to build the next wave of their audience as they got older (it was a brilliant strategy and i had never considered that angle as to the reason why they did this), today's younger audiences go to various apps and they will likely stick with that.
When the next disruptive tech comes along someday, many of today's TikTok users will still be using an app for their entertainment because that's what they grew up on while the following generations use whatever the new tech is...........and the beat goes on.
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Reminds me of a conversation I had many years ago with my dad. He graduated high school in 1955, and as such missed growing up with "that rock and roll music." He was a wonderful father and role model, but when it came to music, his "guilty pleasure" was The Platters. That was as rebellious as he got.
One night I was listening to a song, and he complained "that's not music! It's noise! That's just 'baby baby baby' over and over again. That's all it is. Baby, baby, baby. What's the name of that band, anyway?"
Um...that's The Babys, dad.
"See?! That's what I'm talking about!"
As much as I have always cringed upon hearing a Pat Boone "rock" cover, I've been thinking about it and decided it might not be his doing. He was a successful '50s Pop singer and rock-n-roll came along. He had a contract and as part of the contract, was probably told what he would and would not sing! He could have rebelled but might have been sued and had his career destroyed! At the time, it wouldn't seem to be worth the risk for what appeared to be a passing fad.They really did. Pat Boone was one of the worst offenders, but nobody would call him on it at the risk lose what little they'd worked for, or the white establishment would just dismiss any complaints. Besides, Pat is a good white Christian. He would never cheat anyone!Yeah, right.
Radio actually helped get African American artists into the spotlight, but the problem was that even once in the spotlight, they were neglected and ripped off at every turn by the white-run record companies.
Where have I heard/seen this exact message either here or in my own personal life? 🤔
Why is it when I read lines like this, I hear them being spoken in Archie Bunker's voice?
By that point, teens were no longer salable and CHRs had moved their focus to 18-34.
The significance of the Baby Boom to media was that it was the first generation of teenagers large enough and with time and money (an affluent post-war society that didn't look down on leisure time, allowances and after-school/summer jobs) to pitch products to.
Once that wave crested (the Baby Boom peaked in 1957, repeated that number in 1961, then tapered off---someone born in the last year of the Boom turned 20 in 1984), the crop of Gen Z teens behind it was considerably smaller.
In the 60s and 70s, big teen ratings were something you could sell. And since school got out around 3:00, even afternoon drive was concerned about teen numbers. I'll never forget this live legal ID in 1978:
"KFRC, San Francisco---where John Mack Flanagan will die for a Bay Area High School. Twelve noon with Bob Anthony."
Turns out the word was "dye". Flanagan, who did afternoon drive, agreed to dye his hair to the team colors of whoever won a big high school game on the Peninsula that week. And he did---in the gym at that high school---in front of the winning team and students.
And this was in a several-year period where KFRC not only won in 12-17, they won 18-49, too.
I'm going to make a disclaimer before a reply:
Landtuna and I have never met. We've both been on this board a long time. As much as anyone, I wince at his definitive proclamations of good/bad and is art/is not art, when what he's really giving is his opinion (Frank Sinatra and Jackson Pollock---holy crap).
Sometimes, there's a cultural intersection to his likes and dislikes that's downright uncomfortable. But I will say this with a fair degree of confidence, based on our interactions here over God knows how long:
Landtuna is not a racist. I'd dare say that if he, Kelly and I grabbed a drink and talked politics, we'd be agreeing a hell of a lot.
So let's just knock off the "is it because they're black" loaded questions, okay?
Not because that's never valid, but because you're talking to a guy who (doing the math here) is 78 years old, whose musical tastes were formed, as ours all were, by a combination of the radio of the time and the geography of where he grew up. And who, if he were the hippest guy on the block and hung in there with the pop cultural moment until he was 40, would have lost the thread in 1985.
Disclaimer over.
Now, back to my smartassery already (okay, still) in progress:
What the &*$%! is wrong with a "definite downbeat"?
Tuna, not ALL rap is a hate message. And since we're also dealing with Pat Boone covering Little Richard, let's ease you in with a cover version:
"Beautiful" and "meaningful" do not always intersect ("Things art and journalism have in common for a hundred, Alex.").
Despite the disclaimer, you're never too old to learn some critical things, Tuna. "Thug" is an extremely loaded term and a racist dog whistle and you really should avoid it.
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I didn't get up at 4 this morning intending to defend Landtuna and Pat Boone, and yet here I am.
I think the first mistake everyone who wasn't there at the time makes is thinking of Pat Boone as the overly earnest but slightly smug grown man telling us to all drink milk.
Pat Boone was a 21-year-old kid who just landed a contract at Dot Records the year before. Dot's co-founder and president, Randy Wood, was a big fan of clean-cut Southern boys doing wholesome-bordering-on-cringe material (see: Martindale, Wink "Deck of Cards", 1959---which was a cover of a T. Texas Tyler hit from 1948).
Randy saw that there was music with hit potential that was getting recorded and released but not played on the radio, except on what were then called "Race Music" stations. Not just in the South---everywhere. It was 1955.
So Randy dipped a toe in the water---had Pat record "Two Hearts", which only charted R&B for Otis Williams and the Charms the year before. Pat managed #16 on the pop chart.
Next, Randy had Pat cut a cover of Fats Domino's "Ain't It A Shame" (the actual title of Fats' version), called "Ain't That A Shame". Fats got to #10 with his. Pat was #1.
And it was off to the races from there, because of course Randy said "let's make more!"
A dispassionate look, though, shows it wasn't long and it wasn't huge---Pat only managed #7 with The Eldorados "At My Front Door" (they got to #17). The Five Keys actually beat Pat with "Gee Whittakers"---they made it to #14, Pat only got as far as #19.
And it went on with some hits and some near-misses for most of 1956, after which white American teens were figuring it out and demanding the real deal. Also, the original artists were having some fun with Pat. Little Richard famously wrote "Long Tall Sally" at such a tempo and with so many words just to make it hard for Pat Boone to sing---knowing there'd be a cover version.
By 1957, Pat was on to stuff like "Love Letters in the Sand" and "April Love". He was 23.
Blame Randy Wood. Blame America in 1955 and 1956 for being so scared of Black music (as opposed to pop music recorded by artists who were Black) that we wouldn't put it on major radio stations.
And yeah, Pat profited, turned into a pop culture joke and fathered Debby Boone, which inflicted "You Light Up My Life" on an unsuspecting world. But I'm not sure we can blame him for those 1950s cover records.
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EXT. KANSAS CITY STREET-DAY
TALL_GUY1 SEES A GROUP OF "YOUNGER INDIVIDUALS" CONGREGATED ON THE STREET
TALL_GUY1
Hello, group of younger individuals!
GROUP (looks at tall_guy1))
Yeah?
TALLGUY1
That 15-year-old top 5 hit by Soulja Boy---you know, "Kiss Me Thru The Phone"----really horrible, right?"
GROUP
(stunned and confused silence)
Fixed it for you.
Aren't you writers supposed to be on strike?
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