Syndicated vs Local - Calling Holand Cooke

[BigBluBug]

WHJJ is up... WPRO is down... WPRO is still beating WHJJ.. but at what cost?

Seekonk Sally says that HJJ saw gains with the standard ClearChannel lineup (Beck, Rush, Hannity) and that Helen Glover is coming up while John DePetro is going down in the morning slot...

WHJJ doesn't look like they're paying too many people to pull this one off... John - morning anchor, Helen - morning host, Tim - morning producer, Kevin - morning call screener, Rachel - midday anchor, Bill - afternoon anchor...

WPRO on the other hand has a cast of dozens... Mornings: Bill - morning anchor, Robert - morning reporter, John - morning host, Tara - morning producer, Izzo - morning board op, Becka - morning call screener... There are more people on the morning show staff at WPRO than there is at WHJJ all day...

ClearChannel's doing this one on the cheap and climbing... Citadel's spending like a drunken sailor and getting the opposite result...

That being said...

Would WHJJ grow faster with a second local show?

Should WPRO shake up their lineup and move some things around?

It's looking like the answer is not "all syndicated" or "all local" but a good mixture of both... I'm looking for Holland's opinion on this one.. but I'm sure everyone else has one too...

 

[Holland Cooke]

As Senator Chris Dodd pronounces it, "Lookit..."

Lookit, for starters, it's "H-O-L-L-A-N-D.
Two Ls, like the country, y'know?
Sheesh...how hard is that?

I won't be much help on this, since I haven't seen the Providence numbers.
I'm hip-deep in ratings from markets-I'm-working-in, but I'm not in Providence.

Haven't you heard?
Consultants are guys-who-tumble-off-airplanes.
Experts from afar.
I killed 'em in Kalamazoo.

And you've caught me on an-all-too-brief pit-stop between leaving Las Vegas after last week's massive, mind-boggling Consumer Electronics Show, and next week's two-time-zone trek.

But, as Dan Yorke would say, after a :04 pause, "I will tell you this..."

All-of-what-that-post-above-is-speculating-about is, as Dave Barber would say, "counting the peanuts while the elephants stampede by."

It'll be all radio can do to be flat in 2008 (and that's if there's NO recession). Meanwhile, what-I-saw this past week, and am-struggling-to-describe as I bang out the February newsletter and an article for Talkers magazine this weekend...is EXPLODING.

But don't take my word for it...

At http://members.aol.com/cookeh/ces2008.html, scroll down, and click-to-view the 4-minute highlights clip from a RIVETING 2-hour keynote by Panasonic president Toshihiro Sakamoto. When the Panasonic CES page comes up, click Keynote, and grab the arm rest.

His poise, passion, perfect English, and dazzling new product demonstrations will quickly disabuse radio people of any naïve sense of entitlement. The companies that make the gadgets competing for Time (otherwise) Spent Listening are -- unlike too many Talk hsots -- obsessed with user experience.

Gotta go...on deadline...

 

[JointChinese]

Well I'm no Holland Cooke but. . .WPRO is down, but is revenue up? Is revenue up with the proper multiples to justify the expense? Those are the key questions. WPRO is also hampered by a group of on air people who all hate each other. It must be miserable inside the station. When you have that many ego's who hate each other, it's difficult to move the fleet in the right direction. Remember, the ratings mean NOTHING. Sure it makes it easier if you have them, but national spending is way off all around the country. Here's the formula:
Number of units (6a-7p) x average unit rate - unsold units = MAGIC NUMBER. This is what keeps Joe Lembo awake at night and Barbara Hayes updating her resume.

Plus, ask yourself. . .is the station fun and interesting to listen to? To me it's all about politics all the time. A little of that goes a long way. As Mr. Cooke has always said, "If you want to see how many people are interested in politics, go to your local city council meeting."

My prediction, Mr. Cianci will not sustain the numbers of this most recent book. His show sounds VERY old. The callers sound old. The music he uses is old. He is f'ing old. The numbers will skew way too old in time. He benefited this time by the "Buddy curiosty factor". Is he bringing new people to talk radio? My guess is no. In fact, he must worry about his audience dying. My guess is most people under 30 don't even know who Buddy is. Frankly, fewer people under 30 do not even know what radio is! Maybe that guy who does the bit "Man on the Street" should say, "What is a Cianci?"

Peace out!

 

[McRadio]

As far as stations where everybody hates everybody that may give the PD headaches but as long as it doesn't come across on the air with the exception of a little innuendo here and there, who cares? Internal rivalries are no secret within the market but your average listeners knows nothing about them. Let's face it. WPRO hired DePetro who crashed a Yorke remote not all that long ago and they hired him anyway. Why? It's not like he has any kind of bargaining power. If people want to be difficult let them wallow in it. If stations want to hire people who are known problems let them deal with it. I think anyone who has been in radio knows there are some people who thrive on controversy and internal battles.

I agree on Buddy not sustaining numbers. I used to think he had to make it only to that point where he could run for office again but am not sure he'll last that long due to what they're paying him. If it weren't for the money he could have a longer run.

Yes you're right as far as one station spending big bucks compared to one having a little success spending very little but that's killing the music stations too. They keep replacing and replacing and replacing with people who make less than their predecessors and running stations on the cheap after AM drive but they're just adding to the problem of listeners no longer identifying with the stations they listen to.

 

[Skynet74]

TSL to Cianci is minimal on my part. Maybe 10 minutes every 3 days. There is just nothing there to keep me coming back for more. Cianci's road has two lanes. One is marked "Politics" and the other is marked "Restaurant Row". Cianci needs to expand his subject matter. Without energy and without interesting topics, the listeners will just fall asleep. Everyone else won't even bother to tune in at all.

 

[wknd92]

TSL to Cianci is minimal on my part. Maybe 10 minutes every 3 days. There is just nothing there to keep me coming back for more. Cianci's road has two lanes. One is marked "Politics" and the other is marked "Restaurant Row". Cianci needs to expand his subject matter. Without energy and without interesting topics, the listeners will just fall asleep. Everyone else won't even bother to tune in at all.

John, if you aren't listening, you don't know what is being talked about. Also, seeing as there has been a caucus and primaries over the last 2 weeks, what else would you expect to talk about? Of course he is going to talk about politics......I do think WPRO is up in revenues as I haven't heard a lacking stop set where it was shortened b/c of low inventory at all, morning are a problem if indeed the numbers are lower and Hjj's are up. The winter book will be the telling book as that is the one that will have IMUS for the full book. JD has until then to improve the numbers or there could be some changes afoot.

Also, I can't think of any station that hasn't had people that hate each other working together

 

[Kenny Atkinson]

TSL to Cianci is minimal on my part. Maybe 10 minutes every 3 days. There is just nothing there to keep me coming back for more. Cianci's road has two lanes. One is marked "Politics" and the other is marked "Restaurant Row". Cianci needs to expand his subject matter. Without energy and without interesting topics, the listeners will just fall asleep. Everyone else won't even bother to tune in at all.

I agree on listening to him for about 10 minutes. He gets maybe 15 from me 3 days a week.As for expanding on subject matter. He's still milking last months snow storm.You kind of wish we would have another storm so he can talk about something else.
That makes sense if you think about it for a minute.

 

[JointChinese]

Wknd-

It's not about filling stop sets, it's about average unit rate! You can fill many a spot set at "a dollar a hollar"! It's about RATE and it's about SHARE. This past New Years Day WPRO couldn't even do there annual "Year In Review" show with the hosts. It seems as though they couldn't get them to agree to sit in the same room together. Now that's more then your typical office skirmish. These people "hate", I repeat "hate" each other. When that type of environment exists, you will not have sharing of information among hosts, you will not have cooperation and you have a PD that is constantly putting out fires. Maybe I should say, "trying to put out fires". I doubt that many of the hosts talk to him.

 

[McRadio]

What's that line from Smiling Faces Sometimes? Your enemy won't do you no harm cause you know where he's coming from.

I'm not defending a combative environment although I still think there are radio types that thrive on it but talk show hosts who grate on each other and don't work together well are nothing new. The nature of the format is that different hosts will have different opinions, although in this case I think some things are more personal than anything else. The thing is other than New Year's Reviews and the kinds of remotes and events where the whole staff is involved, each show is a separate entity on a talk station. 3 hosts-3 different stations. On a music station it's a different ballgame since it's more of a cohesive effort and the rivalries can be more disruptive internally. How many situations exist where one or two personalities are resented by the rest of the staff and tagged as being stars or people who are above pitching in?

 

[wknd92]

Wknd-

It's not about filling stop sets, it's about average unit rate! You can fill many a spot set at "a dollar a hollar"! It's about RATE and it's about SHARE. This past New Years Day WPRO couldn't even do there annual "Year In Review" show with the hosts. It seems as though they couldn't get them to agree to sit in the same room together. Now that's more then your typical office skirmish. These people "hate", I repeat "hate" each other. When that type of environment exists, you will not have sharing of information among hosts, you will not have cooperation and you have a PD that is constantly putting out fires. Maybe I should say, "trying to put out fires". I doubt that many of the hosts talk to him.

I don't think there is a hate between the midday and afternoon hosts, it is the morning host that is throwing that station on it's head as he has had well publicized run ins with Buddy & Dan in the past (and appears to continue to do so). From what I hear, there is not a problem between the shows that run after 10am...

 

[JointChinese]

Wknd-

I am sure you mean well, but you just don't know what you are talking about. The midday host and afternoon host??? Buddy could not care less, at 1:00 PM his boy picks him up and they drive away. However, Buddy's sidekick hasn't spoken to Dan in years! Dan is a very troubled individual, maybe it's his health, I am not sure. Now get this (and remember you heard it first here) Dan refuses to sit in the same chair the other hosts use. That's right, he has the chair removed and his own personal chair brought in. This is not the result of some low back pain issue, he says he is allergic to the person who once sat in it (Ron St. Pierre). The story goes that Ron has a dog and the dog touches Ron's trousers and Ron's trousers have touched the chair, so Dan York can't sit there. I couldn't make this s__t up.

 

[BigBluBug]

Re: As Senator Chris Dodd pronounces it, "Lookit..."

Lookit, for starters, it's "H-O-L-L-A-N-D.
Two Ls, like the country, y'know?
Sheesh...how hard is that?

I'm sorry! I'm sorry! Too often I fire off an e-mail or a posting without checking my typos...

I see what you mean about 2008 being flat... Economy drives consumer spending which drives ad dollars... So we just have to wait until 2009 for anybody to spend any more money I guess..

 

[wknd92]

Wknd-

I am sure you mean well, but you just don't know what you are talking about. The midday host and afternoon host??? Buddy could not care less, at 1:00 PM his boy picks him up and they drive away. However, Buddy's sidekick hasn't spoken to Dan in years! Dan is a very troubled individual, maybe it's his health, I am not sure. Now get this (and remember you heard it first here) Dan refuses to sit in the same chair the other hosts use. That's right, he has the chair removed and his own personal chair brought in. This is not the result of some low back pain issue, he says he is allergic to the person who once sat in it (Ron St. Pierre). The story goes that Ron has a dog and the dog touches Ron's trousers and Ron's trousers have touched the chair, so Dan York can't sit there. I couldn't make this s__t up.

Joint, I was talking about the hosts. Yeah I know of the trouble's Ron & Dan have had. There was much the same annimosity in the building when Butts was there.
Also, The chair thing isn't new to the trail, I can think of 3 different people that used to work in the building that had the same quirks, so Dan isn't even original. Like I said, the midday and afternoon hosts don't have a problem....

 

[Moonstruck]

There was a time when these people would just be told to shut the hell up and deal with it. God it's just become so easy to display these eccentricities and the funny thing is the people who display them are the ones that mock others in show biz for the idiotic things they do. As far as Butts I've heard he's a whole nother ball game. By the way he's getting closer. I think his latest job is in Maryland if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Skynet74]

Wknd-

I am sure you mean well, but you just don't know what you are talking about. The midday host and afternoon host??? Buddy could not care less, at 1:00 PM his boy picks him up and they drive away. However, Buddy's sidekick hasn't spoken to Dan in years! Dan is a very troubled individual, maybe it's his health, I am not sure. Now get this (and remember you heard it first here) Dan refuses to sit in the same chair the other hosts use. That's right, he has the chair removed and his own personal chair brought in. This is not the result of some low back pain issue, he says he is allergic to the person who once sat in it (Ron St. Pierre). The story goes that Ron has a dog and the dog touches Ron's trousers and Ron's trousers have touched the chair, so Dan York can't sit there. I couldn't make this s__t up.

Hahahaha. A person could have a field day with the information you just provided. Is Dan really that quirky? That is great. What a fruit loop.

 

[prussolino]

Can the above story really be true? The person sitting there before Yorke was Barber preceeded by Kass and then Ron.

 

[wknd92]

Wknd-

It's not about filling stop sets, it's about average unit rate! You can fill many a spot set at "a dollar a hollar"! It's about RATE and it's about SHARE. This past New Years Day WPRO couldn't even do there annual "Year In Review" show with the hosts. It seems as though they couldn't get them to agree to sit in the same room together. Now that's more then your typical office skirmish. These people "hate", I repeat "hate" each other. When that type of environment exists, you will not have sharing of information among hosts, you will not have cooperation and you have a PD that is constantly putting out fires. Maybe I should say, "trying to put out fires". I doubt that many of the hosts talk to him.

Joint, even at a dollar for a holler, they didn't have stop sets go away after christmas up until last week like their sister stations on the FM side did or across the bay in the ghettoplex. Yes, rate matters; but they have had full boatload as well. I'm willing to bet their Midday and afternoon prices rates are up while the morning show is holding steady, maybe down a little bit from the summer.

 

[JointChinese]

Wknd-Please, I don't mean to pick on you but. . .you've just NEVER been on the business side of radio obviously. You say, "Of course rate matters". Matters? Revenue is everything! Farid blamed Providence for the Citadel's poor performance in third quarter 2007. The stock closed today at $1.45 down 6%. The company stock price is in the tank. All I can say is those rates better be up in PVD. If not, Ms. Hayes might want to consider joining her hubby at the National Guard. With RI's eroding population and the economy going south, she better be firing up that copy machine printing resumes. Now that she spent all that dough on Buddy she will be doing her best Gregory Hines tap dance for Farid. My prediction, if she misses first quarter budget numbers she will be toast! There is a slew of unemployed market managers ready to take her place. Spending up, ratings flat and revenue down spells BIG trouble.

 

[wknd92]

Wknd-Please, I don't mean to pick on you but. . .you've just NEVER been on the business side of radio obviously. You say, "Of course rate matters". Matters? Revenue is everything! Farid blamed Providence for the Citadel's poor performance in third quarter 2007. The stock closed today at $1.45 down 6%. The company stock price is in the tank. All I can say is those rates better be up in PVD. If not, Ms. Hayes might want to consider joining her hubby at the National Guard. With RI's eroding population and the economy going south, she better be firing up that copy machine printing resumes. Now that she spent all that dough on Buddy she will be doing her best Gregory Hines tap dance for Farid. My prediction, if she misses first quarter budget numbers she will be toast! There is a slew of unemployed market managers ready to take her place. Spending up, ratings flat and revenue down spells BIG trouble.

Joint-I think we are saying the same thing; but speaking different languages. I am not disbuting what you are saying. What I am trying to say that in conjunction to listening to other stations in the market, I didn't hear lack of commercials that I did at 92 Pro-FM, Lite, WSNE, WEEI-FM, B101 & The Score on WPRO-AM. If you are lacking spots running (inventory) there cannot be money coming in the door (revenue). So whether you are charging $125 a spot or $2 a spot, if you don't have any playing, it doesn't matter what the rate is, you know? The numbers revenue-wise aren't in yet for 4th q 2007, I have a feeling that they will be up from 3rd q b/c of the new clients that got brought in. Again, that is my personal feeling

 

[bub]

Re: As Senator Chris Dodd pronounces it, "Lookit..."

Haven't you heard?
Consultants are guys-who-tumble-off-airplanes.
Experts from afar.
I killed 'em in Kalamazoo.

Definition of a Consultant: Someone who borrows your watch and then charges you to tell you what time it is. ;D