I was looking up Allan's NYRMB that CBS-FM is playing "Tainted Love/Where Did Our Love Go" by Soft Cel. What are they thinking? I heard this on WBPM's "Music Blimp" with Randy Turnip back in the summer and it was a great song, and it doesn't belong on this station. What's wrong with this picture?
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"Tainted Love" on CBS-FM
- Thread starter disney fanatic
- Start date
Tainted Love is played on most Classic Hits/Greatest Hits Of All Time stations throughout the country.
I THINK ALLAN SNIFFEN HAS A PROBLEM WITH CBS-FM PLAYING CERTAIN MUSIC FROM THE 80's THAT DOESN'T FIT WELL WITH THEIR TRADITIONAL MUSIC MIX FROM THE 50's, 60's & 70's, AND FOR THE MOST PART I AGREE WITH HIM.
STYLISTICALLY, IT DOESN'T MIX WELL WHEN YOU PLAY A BEATLES OR MOTOWN SONG AND SEGUE TO AN EVEN TECHNO ROCK SONG BY SOFT CELL.
THANKS,
KEVIN L. SEALY
STYLISTICALLY, IT DOESN'T MIX WELL WHEN YOU PLAY A BEATLES OR MOTOWN SONG AND SEGUE TO AN EVEN TECHNO ROCK SONG BY SOFT CELL.
THANKS,
KEVIN L. SEALY
Kevin L. Sealy said:
WCBS does not play 50's titles. The format centers around 1977. Tainted Love is from the Summer of '81. It fits.
The dentist is throwing another hissy fit over the station right now and picking on certain songs, as always, as an example.
The problem is that he (and the CBS-FM traditionalists) can't have it both ways. CBS-FM, pre-Jack, was a station on the way down. The demos were aging, the music was stale, and it wasn't attracting new listeners. A change was needed, and while Jack was the wrong change (even though I personally liked a lot of the music it played), CBS Radio redeemed itself by bringing back CBS-FM. Not only that, but they made the right move in updating the station and moving the music further. I recall that move was even applauded by many except the so-called traditionalists and oldies "purists" who still want the station to be as it was 10 or 20 years ago, which of course defies reality.
The problem is that as the station and its music continues to move forward, even those same people who were calling for change are suddenly turning on the station and are calling for WCBS-FM to go back to basically the same old stale thing as before. The dentist is calling for the station to focus exclusively on the 60s and 70s, which is pretty much what CBS-FM was in the years prior to Jack, other than a few sappy 80s ballads it had begun to add intermittently. Such a move, however, likely will alienate the younger listeners the station does manage to reach.
As has been pointed out, a song like Tainted Love is almost thirty years old. It's also a staple on classic hits stations and is all-around a very recognized, mainstream song in popular culture and has been for some time.
If CBS-FM sticks with the 60s and 70s exclusively and even goes heavily on the 50s, the oldies purists will be happy...happy until the station's ratings and ad revenues begin to decrease, which would inevitably force the suits at CBS to move the station back to the future again, or to pull the plug again a la Jack. And then, inevitably, the same purists will come out of the woodwork again, whining and moaning about losing CBS-FM (just as in 2005) when up until then they had been whining and moaning about the station and its music selection.
2010 is only a year and a few days away. 30 full years will have passed since 1980 and since the start of the MTV era. When CBS-FM first went oldies, much of the music it played was far less than 30 years old. A lot of that music isn't played on oldies stations anymore and hasn't been for some time. Over time music from the 70's was added (which, of course, wasn't oldies when CBS-FM first came around because the music was NEW or didn't exist then!!!), and now, the 80's are finally being added. It's an inevitable progression. Oldies stations target listeners in certain age groups and have to play music of a certain vintage to reach those demos. Music from the 80s, particularly the early 80s, has reached that point.
"Oldies" or "classic hits," just like any other format, needs to evolve. CHR and Top 40 formats always play whats current and adopt the musical trends of the particular era, whether the music leans towards rock or hip-hop or anything else. Many classic rock stations, including Q104.3, have gone as far as to add music from the 90s in careful rotation, and yet I don't see classic rock "purists" raising a fuss over it. Lite FM and many other AC stations have evolved tremendously, from the days of Barry Manilow to hearing the likes of Pink and Coldplay and Boston on a regular basis, while ratings continue to be as strong as ever. If all of those formats can evolve, so can oldies and classic hits. They have to, or they will meet the same fate as standards and beautiful music and other long-lost formats.
The problem is that he (and the CBS-FM traditionalists) can't have it both ways. CBS-FM, pre-Jack, was a station on the way down. The demos were aging, the music was stale, and it wasn't attracting new listeners. A change was needed, and while Jack was the wrong change (even though I personally liked a lot of the music it played), CBS Radio redeemed itself by bringing back CBS-FM. Not only that, but they made the right move in updating the station and moving the music further. I recall that move was even applauded by many except the so-called traditionalists and oldies "purists" who still want the station to be as it was 10 or 20 years ago, which of course defies reality.
The problem is that as the station and its music continues to move forward, even those same people who were calling for change are suddenly turning on the station and are calling for WCBS-FM to go back to basically the same old stale thing as before. The dentist is calling for the station to focus exclusively on the 60s and 70s, which is pretty much what CBS-FM was in the years prior to Jack, other than a few sappy 80s ballads it had begun to add intermittently. Such a move, however, likely will alienate the younger listeners the station does manage to reach.
As has been pointed out, a song like Tainted Love is almost thirty years old. It's also a staple on classic hits stations and is all-around a very recognized, mainstream song in popular culture and has been for some time.
If CBS-FM sticks with the 60s and 70s exclusively and even goes heavily on the 50s, the oldies purists will be happy...happy until the station's ratings and ad revenues begin to decrease, which would inevitably force the suits at CBS to move the station back to the future again, or to pull the plug again a la Jack. And then, inevitably, the same purists will come out of the woodwork again, whining and moaning about losing CBS-FM (just as in 2005) when up until then they had been whining and moaning about the station and its music selection.
2010 is only a year and a few days away. 30 full years will have passed since 1980 and since the start of the MTV era. When CBS-FM first went oldies, much of the music it played was far less than 30 years old. A lot of that music isn't played on oldies stations anymore and hasn't been for some time. Over time music from the 70's was added (which, of course, wasn't oldies when CBS-FM first came around because the music was NEW or didn't exist then!!!), and now, the 80's are finally being added. It's an inevitable progression. Oldies stations target listeners in certain age groups and have to play music of a certain vintage to reach those demos. Music from the 80s, particularly the early 80s, has reached that point.
"Oldies" or "classic hits," just like any other format, needs to evolve. CHR and Top 40 formats always play whats current and adopt the musical trends of the particular era, whether the music leans towards rock or hip-hop or anything else. Many classic rock stations, including Q104.3, have gone as far as to add music from the 90s in careful rotation, and yet I don't see classic rock "purists" raising a fuss over it. Lite FM and many other AC stations have evolved tremendously, from the days of Barry Manilow to hearing the likes of Pink and Coldplay and Boston on a regular basis, while ratings continue to be as strong as ever. If all of those formats can evolve, so can oldies and classic hits. They have to, or they will meet the same fate as standards and beautiful music and other long-lost formats.
Seriously though Im 36 and I wouldnt mind if cbs played the 50s -the 80s ,then there'd be no way I 'd shut it off
Not that the 80s sounds "normal" on 101.1 (not what Im used to) but I do miss the doo wop shop and all those songs they dont play now.Would be a way cooler station if they went back to their roots and stuck in 50s songs here and there.CBs probably wont do that,thats why apple invented ipods.So every once and awhile you tune out.Love that cbs is back on the air,Jack didnt belong on 101.1,they should put that on another station.
Not that the 80s sounds "normal" on 101.1 (not what Im used to) but I do miss the doo wop shop and all those songs they dont play now.Would be a way cooler station if they went back to their roots and stuck in 50s songs here and there.CBs probably wont do that,thats why apple invented ipods.So every once and awhile you tune out.Love that cbs is back on the air,Jack didnt belong on 101.1,they should put that on another station.
It seems that radio message boards go into a frenzy when one person perceives that a record out of format is being played. Since "Tainted Love" was a hit of the 80s it does fit in with the classic hits format. This morning I heard Take on Me by Aha. Neo11 makes some very good points. Formats do have a life cycle and will eventually die out.
Bruce
Bruce
If WABC had played records like "Tainted Love" when they should have, instead of the wimp o rama Rupert Holmes fest they turned into,maybe they wouldn't be full of tainted windbags spouting outdated con swerve-atisim that no one cares about anymore...CBS FM,please play "Goody Two Shoes " by Adam Ant and "You Spin Me Round" by Dead Or Alive,thank you so much...and maybe "It's A Mystery" by Toyah....
lalumia said:
Hahaha I actually have to agree.
Another point I wanted to make: the dentist's argument has morphed into: the station has to move forward with the times, but if it moves forward (and plays 80s music) it should stop calling itself CBS-FM, because that name is attached with "oldies" even though it is not (according to him) an "oldies" station anymore, but a classic hits station.
By that logic, stations like Z100 should be changing their name every year or two, for fear of the station being branded as the "boy band" station, or the "grunge" station, or the Michael Jackson/Madonna/Prince station. Somehow, though, the fact that Z100 doesn't play the same music it did in 2000 or 1993 or 1985 doesn't seem to confuse the listeners or prevent them from bringing Z100 to #1, but 101.1 is supposed to be that special case that's stuck in the past and never changes.
Honestly...with the way many of the oldies "purists" are reacting to the first notion of change at CBS-FM, it's no wonder that advertisers stay away from the upper demos like the plague. They don't want to target listeners who are so obviously set in their ways (despite their likely disposable income) that their message won't have an effect. I think all of these complaints, the dentist's included, are coming from some sort of fierce resistance to hearing a CBS-FM that is unlike the one they would hear in 1997 or 1987. A fierce resistance that defies reality. Does Kiss FM sound the same as it did in 1987 or 1997? How about Z100? Lite FM? PLJ? No, these are all stations that have evolved with the times and have done so successfully (yes, even PLJ, judging by its continued high billing). CBS Radio has made a lot of stupid, boneheaded moves but they are absolutely on the right track with what they are doing moving 101.1 forward.
As someone in the target demo, who should like 80's music, I'll say that though some of it is good in small doses, it just pales in comparison to pretty much any previous decade, going back to the 40s. I also agree that the "sound" of Aha, Madonna, or Culture Club does not mesh so well with the Turtles or Elvis.
But Sniffen's suggestion - to either stick with the "oldies sound" or abandon the moniker, is not a good one. There will always be a market for people to hear the music of their youth, and if CBS can evolve into "old music" and not just "oldies," then it will survive indefinitely. Think of it as Levi's keeping their brand name, but developing new styles of jeans for the times.....vs. changing the company name and starting over.
My hopes for CBS would be:
- they increase the amount of 50s and 60s music. It has timeless appeal.
- they keep up the great specialty things like A to Z, countdowns, Hall of Fame..
- they keep the playlist BIG, and make it bigger. Boredom is what kills stations, and we'll burn out on Tainted Love and Hotel California just like we did on My Girl, My Guy, and Brown Eyed Girl.
But Sniffen's suggestion - to either stick with the "oldies sound" or abandon the moniker, is not a good one. There will always be a market for people to hear the music of their youth, and if CBS can evolve into "old music" and not just "oldies," then it will survive indefinitely. Think of it as Levi's keeping their brand name, but developing new styles of jeans for the times.....vs. changing the company name and starting over.
My hopes for CBS would be:
- they increase the amount of 50s and 60s music. It has timeless appeal.
- they keep up the great specialty things like A to Z, countdowns, Hall of Fame..
- they keep the playlist BIG, and make it bigger. Boredom is what kills stations, and we'll burn out on Tainted Love and Hotel California just like we did on My Girl, My Guy, and Brown Eyed Girl.
scooty430 said:
You are right that not all 80's music would be a good fit for the format, and that at the same time, CBS-FM should avoid picking just a few and turning them into the next "Brown Eyed Girl." It's a fine balance to walk. I do think that there is a lot of appropriate 80s music that has wide enough appeal and "fits" the sound (Tainted Love is one such song, IMO).
However, increasing the amount of 50s, in particular, is a non-starter. It goes against trying to move the station younger. The music may be timeless, but reality has to kick in, and that music doesn't appeal to very many in the younger demos CBS-FM wishes to reach.
One thing I've been noticing, which is leading to part of the moaning and arguing, is that the format term "oldies" seems to have been typecast to 50s-70's music, when in reality it should just reflect "older" music. Just like CHR or Top 40 shouldn't be typecast to the Z100 of the 1980s or Musicradio 77 WABC, the same should be the case when referring to "oldies." Part of the problem is that people are sticking to this weird notion that only music from a particular era can ever be labeled "oldies."
neo11 said:
There IS a certain sound connected with the word "Oldies," though I'd say anyone under 30 does not even know what that sound is, so who cares?
I definitely understand the reluctance to play any 50s, but I think it's misguided. Look at all the preteens and teens obsessed with the Beatles. They aren't feeding on nostalgia; they're responding to it because it's great music. Same reason we are still listening to Sinatra, or that people gather to hear Beethoven's 9th or the Nutcracker, (to go to another genre.)
Keeping 50s/60s music helps in a lot of ways:
- it keeps you from being a fairly narrow 80's only station (which would get old REAL fast.)
- it allows the playlist to be larger without getting obscure
- it allows you to keep your brand name - so long as you still spin some Elvis and Everly Brothers a couple times an hour, you're still CBS-FM (sort of)
- most importantly, there will NOT be enough music with broad appeal to fill out a playlist as we move forward in time. The music got way too niched, (rap, techno, metal, lightweight pop like Mariah Carey) and even the stuff that got big exposure simply is not as good. Someday you'll be able to add Maroon 5 and "Hey Ya" to your playlist, but how many other songs? But if you keep all these great old tunes, you'll still have music to play. GOOD music.
scooty430 said:
You're letting subjectivity get in the way though. What is "good" music? The music you say is "good"? Older doesn't necessarily mean better, nor does newer necessarily mean worse, especially in the ears of the audiences advertisers want to reach. You are right about the fragmentation of the music beginning in the 80s, but honestly, what CBS-FM plays sans the 80s music is already pretty fragmented as it is...Smokey Robinson and the Beatles and Fleetwood Mac and Donna Summer and Rod Stewart and Elton John don't exactly "mesh" well together on their own, but they work for an oldies/classic hits format.
You cite the Beatles, but they are not even from the 50s. In fact, most oldies stations use the year the Beatles emerged (1964) as their cut-off line for music and some have moved largely past that point. Sure, there's people listening to Sinatra, and people listening to Beethoven, and people listening to Elvis, even young people that the advertisers want. But are *enough* young people listening to any of those to justify giving that sort of music airplay on a station that is trying to aim younger? Probably not. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of the outcry over CBS-FM's direction, using the message boards as an anecdotal example, is coming from listeners of a certain age group and above despite the large amount of younger posters out there as well.
This talk about "you're only still CBS-FM if you play (insert 50's artist here)" is nonsense. The CBS-FM of 1997 wasn't the same as the CBS-FM of 1987, which in turn wasn't the same as the CBS-FM of 1977 or 1972. I mean, a lot of CBS-FM's staple music from the 70's was NEW music when CBS-FM emerged on the scene. But it seems that after a certain point and beyond, the oldies purists have drawn a line in the sand and are unwilling to go beyond the comfort zone they've developed musically. And based on the posts I've been reading over on the "other" board, they also seem to subscribe to the notion that the CBS-FM "brand" is only attached to one kind of music. It may be, in their own minds, but they are assuming that is the case for the entire listening audience out there, and particularly the younger demos that may not have ever listened or paid much attention to CBS-FM in the past but which is now beginning to add music that is likely familiar to them. It's that line of thinking that's going to kill off the station rather than allow it to evolve, much as how it has evolved throughout the years (apparently without them noticing it much until recently).
All good points. I agree with everything you said to an extent.
I guess the problem is that the whole idea of CBS-FM is that it plays old music with broad appeal, to people who remember it the first time around.
But can a station exist, say, in 10 years, that has now dumped the Beatles and the 60s, and begins with disco and ends with....what....Hootie and the Blowfish? How about a station that is playing only from 1985 on?
So I guess if I were in charge of CBS-FM, I would see my "brand" (an overused word these days, but appropriate here) as classic, perennial music from the past. For instance, if your brand is Xmas music, do you stop playing Bing Crosby or Gene Autry? Each generation keeps rediscovering that stuff. I would say Elvis and the Beatles will be the same way.
With that in mind, I'd keep the old, and continue to add in the new. Just my approach (and apparently their approach too, because they still reach back to 1955 at least a few times a day.)
I guess the problem is that the whole idea of CBS-FM is that it plays old music with broad appeal, to people who remember it the first time around.
But can a station exist, say, in 10 years, that has now dumped the Beatles and the 60s, and begins with disco and ends with....what....Hootie and the Blowfish? How about a station that is playing only from 1985 on?
So I guess if I were in charge of CBS-FM, I would see my "brand" (an overused word these days, but appropriate here) as classic, perennial music from the past. For instance, if your brand is Xmas music, do you stop playing Bing Crosby or Gene Autry? Each generation keeps rediscovering that stuff. I would say Elvis and the Beatles will be the same way.
With that in mind, I'd keep the old, and continue to add in the new. Just my approach (and apparently their approach too, because they still reach back to 1955 at least a few times a day.)
Many may know this, but in case you don't: Tainted Love was an obscure 1964 song by Cincinnati-born soul singer Gloria Jones, written by
Ed Cobb, who also wrote "Dirty Water". She was romantically involved with Marc Bolan and had
a son by him; she was driving a Mini with Bolan when the car crashed, killing him. I've played
the original Tainted Love off a Rhino compilation, IIRC.
Marc Almond of Soft Cell had heard Jones' song while at a UK nightclub.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Jones
The ORIGINAL (start reminds me of "Good Thing" by FYC):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSehtaY6k1U
Ed Cobb, who also wrote "Dirty Water". She was romantically involved with Marc Bolan and had
a son by him; she was driving a Mini with Bolan when the car crashed, killing him. I've played
the original Tainted Love off a Rhino compilation, IIRC.
Marc Almond of Soft Cell had heard Jones' song while at a UK nightclub.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Jones
The ORIGINAL (start reminds me of "Good Thing" by FYC):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSehtaY6k1U
BruceS8852 said:
I agree with that. "Tainted Love" was a big hit around 1981 and 1982, for some reasons, radio stations are either cut down the song with just the title or they would add "Where Did Our Love Go" to go with the song. WBPM which is "Classic Hits 92.9" did play that song except it was played during the "Music Blimp" with Randy Turnip. Of all the 80's songs as far as I'm concern, CBS-FM plays too much 80's in which Allan discussed about it many times on the too much 80's on CBS-FM discussion.
In addition for the next year or so, CBS-FM will play Genesis "Tonight Tonight Tonight", Survivor's "The Search Is Over", Supertramp "The Logical Song", Squeeze's "Tempted", Steve Perry's "Foolish Heart", Pink Floyd's "Money" and a few others, I looked it up on WBPM's playlist on WBPM's site that many of these songs are sometimes now played on CBS-FM and many of them did not play any of these songs on the former "Jack" which are now currently played on CBS-FM's HD-2 station as "101.1 HD-2" are "This Time" by INXS, "We're Not Gonna Take It" by Twisted Sister, "Magic Man" by Heart, "Godzilla" by Blue Oyster Cult, "Life During Wartime" by Talking Heads and a few others.
I hope in the next 2 or 3 years, CBS-FM will add some 90's music in the mix such as Britney Spears' "Baby One More Time" one of my favorite songs, Christina Aguliera's "Genie In the Bottle", UB-40's "Here I Am", Celine Dion's "Power of Love", Boyz II Men's "Motownphilly", Depeche Mode's "Enjoy the Silence" and many other songs from the 90's will someday be putting on CBS-FM's playlist for the next several years.
Just to be careful what CBS-FM needs to do is play a little 80's music, but not too much or you'll be in the bubble. I don't want to get into an argument between CBS-FM's playlist and WBPM's playlist. These songs doesn't fit the format as well. Be careful.
A
andreajesus
Guest
disney fanatic said:
"Deja vu...." - this whole thread reminds me of one that some dude started a few months back - at that time, CBSFM was plugging its "Disco Ball at the Taj Mahal" thing with Joe Causi - one of the FEATURED acts on that event was The Sugarhill Gang who hit with "Rapper's Delight" in the early '80s - anyhow, so this dude starts a thread basically freaking out about the EXACT thing that's being "threaded" out here...
What does this have to do with "Tainted Love"? SEVERAL things:
1) "Tainted Love/Where Did Our Love Go" (yes, kiddies, that was the FULL title then, and it is the FULL title now....) was a HUGE pop hit in 1981/1982 - well within CBSFM's province to play it;
2) Following up on my point #1, there are MANY in CBSFM's current audience AND demographic that consider the song an "oldie";
3) BIG issue (and correct me if i'm wrong here), but isn't CBSFM going for a 25-54 demographic? And if it is, wouldn't "Tainted Love/Where Did Our Love Go?" as well as my previously-mentioned "Rapper's Delight" be songs that WERE and ARE big hits with that same demographic?? And assumedly, the answers to both questions are "yes" - CBSFM is a station that bills itself as "The Greatest Hits of the 60's, 70's, and 80's" - and since BOTH songs WERE and ARE big hits within the time frame....need I say more??
A
andreajesus
Guest
WOW, Neo - i didn't expect YOU to agree with me - BUT I LOVE IT!! ;D
HAPPY NEW YEAR!Andrea
HAPPY NEW YEAR!Andrea
A
adma
Guest
The trouble with adapting to the 80s+ demo is (a) we're talking about the MTV era, and (b) we're talking about a demo for whom radio was far more of a secondary factor in their lives. Thus, any draw of a so-called younger-skewing WCBS is generic, i.e. "they play music that we remember", but not a whole lot deeper than that. And it's wishful to think otherwise; at most, it's an easy alibi for securing the illusion of being desirable to ad buyers.
In reality, it's probably akin to when we started hearing more "contemporary" songs and arrangements (Shaft-style wocka-wocka guitars, etc) on Beautiful Music stations in the 70s--all in the name of sounding "less old"; but in the end, it couldn't rescue the format from its certain obsolescence, because the desirable younger demos simply didn't have "Beautiful Music" ears, no matter what.
I reckon that in the end, this is just WCBS "buying time" until the format and, well, maybe terrestrial FM as a generator of non-"ethnic" music programming flutters to its conclusion, maybe sooner than we think...
In reality, it's probably akin to when we started hearing more "contemporary" songs and arrangements (Shaft-style wocka-wocka guitars, etc) on Beautiful Music stations in the 70s--all in the name of sounding "less old"; but in the end, it couldn't rescue the format from its certain obsolescence, because the desirable younger demos simply didn't have "Beautiful Music" ears, no matter what.
I reckon that in the end, this is just WCBS "buying time" until the format and, well, maybe terrestrial FM as a generator of non-"ethnic" music programming flutters to its conclusion, maybe sooner than we think...
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