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Talk radio ... and its old listeners

longtimelistener said:
"The first wave of PPM numbers is out for Sacramento and there's a stunning revelation: Nearly half of Rush's listeners are over age 65. This trend holds true in Los Angeles, San Francisco and nationwide. According to Arbitron, the radio ratings service that developed the PPM concept, nearly two-thirds of talk radio's listeners are over age 50 (half of them also over 65), 90 percent are over age 35 and almost 90 percent are white."
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And peeps, if you don't want to belive this guy, go check WBAP's 6+ rankings (Findable under ratings at the top of this page. They're FIFTH. Pretty darned good, right? Then check out their current 25-54 numbers ( currently findable on page 3 of this very forum). WBAP looks GREAT 6+, at 5th, but they're 17th P25-54. Now check the 18-34 rankings (also currrently on page 3). They're 30th.
I don't think you need to be a math major to figure out what that means. WBAP's listeners are OLD. There's a lot of them, but they're old.


3. I am a 58 yr. old Baby Boomer. Be the author's opinion aside, as I said above, Little1 is correct about the whole brand preference for a lot of ever-day consumer goods. ALL the advertising in any medium is not going to make me switch from coke to pepsi.

While KISS is a likely spot for an agency soft drink national/regional buy and for certain local business that cater to the teens that aren't listening to their ipods, WBAP and other major talk stations are better buys for certain higher-priced goods & services. I'm more likely to buy national/regional agency business services for my company and area lake-front property than a 20 something is.
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The intersection near myhouse has 4 grocery stores within a half block radius. And no stores selling lake front property. And so while I agree that talk radio is good for marketing SOME goods or services, there's a lot more goods and services being pitched to a younger audience. Which is why we have 6 stations playing some form of rock music, and 1 playing big band era stuff. The advertisers want a younger audience.




Radio is still a good place to spend advertising dollars for certain products. TV works better for others. Same thing for the internet. The beat goes on.
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This 'Run off the sales staff and rely on agency business' thing... How's that working for you?
And how does it work when you're not in the top 5 of your demo?
Maybe direct sales can connect with advertisers who know who'se spending the money.
Just because Mr. Old-F**t likes Prell and Coke, he still has choices on where to buy it.
Likewise, if Mr. Old-Moneybags buys only Lexus, he still has his choice of dealers... provided he knows where to find the best deal.
And do you really think anyone hears the second-third-fourth-fifth commercial in a 6 minute spot break? Even if they do hear it, they're not listening. The current model is BROKEN. It's time for broadcasters to step in and find new ways of doing things.
Just because research companies and agencies say they won't buy over 54, doesn't mean there can't be a workable business model for reaching the 'Mature' audience and supporting the station by marketing to it.
 
grantchester said:
The current model is BROKEN. It's time for broadcasters to step in and find new ways of doing things.
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New ways? OK. I'm listening. Give me a few.

Look...the only way for radio to collect revenue is through spots. Ad rates have dropped, so your only choice is to add more spots. Radio can't force listeners to pay subscription fees, and the government isn't going to enact a tax. So that leaves spots, placed by ad agencies, who hate old people. But old people are the only people listening to the radio. The issue isn't reaching mature audiences. We know how to do that. The catch is how to pay for it.

Back to you: New ways of doing things. We're waiting. Name an advertiser with a big budget for radio who doesn't use an agency, and might want to support programming for 55+. Let me know, and I'll be on the phone in the morning.
 
1.) Direct sales.
2.) Live announce endorsement ads
3.) A community of interest centered around the station.
4.) Involvement in the community life of your audience.
You want a client list for 55+?
Luxury auto dealers. Funeral homes. Financial planning. Real estate. Insurance.
You want to motivate those clients? Engagement of the station, with the sponsors and the community of interest you define.
 
Funeral homes on the radio? Really? After we play Michael Jackson.

Direct sales? You mean 1-800 mnumbers? Don't you think we have enough already?

You wonder why talk radio is big with 55+? Because those advertisers fit better with talk than music.

But the bigger problem is getting ad support for music that appeals to older demos. Financial planning, real estate, insurance, and funeral homes just sound awful with classic rock.
 
Direct sales: Hire a guy or gal who will go out and JOIN THE COMMUNITY of the advertiser, and SELL THEM DIRECTLY.
Michael Jackson? What community of interest will playing Michael Jackson music serve? If you know of one, JOIN IT and SERVE IT.
Why does your station have to play classic rock? Is there a large underserved community that is compelled to support the sponsors of a station that plays NIGHT MOVES and SWEET HOME ALABAMA for the Nth time?
 
in DFW some people apparently thought having a liberal version of talk radio would automatically succeed, but without some kind of engagement with that community, it failed. Likewise, there is an AM station in town that has a full line up of quality conservative hosts, that draws but a small fraction of the market leader. The difference? The leader is engaged with its local community. The other is little more than syndicated verbage.
KEYI has very poor ratings, but they stay on the air. Apparently they appeal to a group that is willing to support what they do.
Then there's KRLD. It's not in the top five of any demos, and I once read an item that indicated their listener's average age is 76! Yet they are one of the top billing stations in town. What does Bob Waterman know that the rest of you don't?
 
grantchester said:
Then there's KRLD. It's not in the top five of any demos, and I once read an item that indicated their listener's average age is 76! Yet they are one of the top billing stations in town. What does Bob Waterman know that the rest of you don't?
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That should probably be 'were' one of the top billing stations in town. I don't think they're doing quite so well anymore.

And What Bob knows is how to run 22 minutes of spots an hour. Everything, from thh news and sports to the jock burping on air is 'brought to you by..."

Lot easier to bill a bunch with 22 minutes an hour when music stations are running 10-12-14m per hour.
 
run 22 minutes of spots an hour. Everything, from the news and sports to the jock burping on air is 'brought to you by..."
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And someone sold those spots.

Let me sum up: You can play this old game of programming to the ARBitron (or PPM) and selling to the agencies, or you can do what good broadcasters do; which is serve an audience. If you are part of a community of interest and have a skilled and motivated sales staff, you will find ways to provide effective advertising to sponsors who wish to communicate with your community.
The biggest problem with the agency selling model is the complete lack of accountability. Who knows which of those tv stations, radio stations, bill boards, print ads or internet banners delivered the customers? Direct sales lives and dies by results. Get em, and you get repeat business. Fail, and you'd better have a plan 'b'.
So, Yes, the 54+ audience can be a viable base to provide the revenue to support a station and generate a profit, but not if you use the 'conventional wisdom' as practiced by the big chain broadcasters today.
 
Back when Stern was on The Eagle, I automatically knew when he went to commercial to switch away.

Infinity literally translated to "running commercials to infinity." It was a solid 15 to 20 minute break, guaranteed. I would get to work & the commercials would still be playing. It was pathetic.
 
Lancer said:
Back when Stern was on The Eagle, I automatically knew when he went to commercial to switch away.

Infinity literally translated to "running commercials to infinity." It was a solid 15 to 20 minute break, guaranteed. I would get to work & the commercials would still be playing. It was pathetic.
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I remember those looooong commercial breaks. I also would change the station, turn back a few minutes later just hear more commercials. I eventually just stopped listening to Stern. I still do the same thing the few times I listen to local radio.
 
Lancer wrote:

"...It was a solid 15 to 20 minute break, guaranteed."

It sure was! After a while I actually timed it with a stopwatch...an honest 15 solid minutes of back-to-back commercials with an ID or two thrown in along the way. I learned to tune away then tune back, just like Lancer and I'm sure many others did.
 
Yeah that's pretty dumb to have predictable breaks.

When the audience knows exactly when you are coming back, they will tune away every time. If Infinity would have shaken it up & surprised everyone with a 5 minute break occasionally, people would not be so quick to tune away because they wouldn't know if it was going to be a long or short break. Keep 'em guessing.

I'll tolerate commercials in low doses - but not for the majority of my commute. Over 3 minutes, I switch away.
 
Yeah I could kinda tell that by the accent. As I said in my previous post, INFINITY was responsible for the long breaks. As in, the network.
 
Lancer said:
Yeah I could kinda tell that by the accent. As I said in my previous post, INFINITY was responsible for the long breaks. As in, the network.
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Infinity was ... finite.
 
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