TALKERS HEAVY 100

[SeanMGilbow]

Something tells me all of you will be watching what just happened in Columbus very closely.

Compared with what was heard on AM 1230 when it was progressive talk, 1580 WVKO has three things going for it: a stronger signal, call letters with a history (especially with the African-American community), and advertisers.

A stronger signal but at the high end of the band. Signal strength is less effective (I will let those tecnically oriented explain it) and the high-end is off the mental map for most people who just don't think about going there.

Liberal talk is not a Black-targeted format. If you were running Sharpton and Dyson, an association of the calls with a former Black format might help (a little). Not here. History doesn't count in radio and come-backs don't work.

Advertisers? "Corporate underwriters" might be a better word. Try running a station like a business instead of a crusade, and stop using public radio as your model. Get your heads out of the public sector. I know you all think you mean well but (as the saying goes) if you are unwilling to learn from the mistakes of the past, you are doomed to repeat them (just like Air America).

The more you all keep screwing up libtalk, the more credence you give to the wing-nuts selling the line that liberal talk can't work.

As one of those advertisers, Julius, let me assure you that none of the businesses with commercials on the air are doing this as some sort of charitable enterprise.

Here is the list after just two weeks on the air, and there is a waiting list:

Open Sky Day Spa
Uncle Sam's Pawn Shop
Miracle Motor Mart
Roth Produce
Used Kids Records
Meat-Packers Outlet
Maison Ecole
CleanLeft.com (my business)

Now, compare that with the number of advertisers Clear Channel's AM 1230 had in its first two weeks as a progressive talk station:







As for the signal, WVKO's is stronger than AM 1230's, especially at night. It comes in loud and clear in northeast Columbus all hours of the day.

As for WVKO's reputation...Even for not being on the air for some time due to the bankruptcy, the station's reputation in the community is better than AM 1230's, which has become a format-of-the-month over the years.

As for African-American listeners...if Randi Rhodes' show yesterday was any indication, they will come to WVKO. The topic of Randi's entire show yesterday was Oprah.

 

[ajhenderson]

So because Randi Rhodes talks about Oprah, black people will listen? If I advise my hosts to talk about Gandhi, will our Indian shares increase?

I find it hard to believe eight businesses have sold a station out. In fact, it's impossible. Stations billing $50 and $60 million a year still manage to find time to sell. There should never be a waiting list for spots.

 

[Phil Boyce]

Sean Gilbow...I really admire your courage, and the fact that you are putting your money where your mouth is. So please forgive me for taking liberties with your client list. I just decided the billboard at the top of the hour should sound something like this:

This portion of "LibTalk" on AM 1580 WVKO is brought you by....

Open Sky Day Spa...hey we used to have a roof, till the tornado came.
Uncle Sam's Pawn Shop...can't pay the bills this month? That cell phone looks sweet.
Miracle Motor Mart...if it don't start after a week, you get to keep it for free.
Roth Produce...tomatoes, 50 cents a pound...good conversation...priceless.
Used Kids Records...Hey just because these kids are in foster care, doesn't mean they can't sing.
Meat-Packers Outlet...And you thought Liberals only ate turkey.
Maison Ecole...the store Hillary would shop in, if she ever did go shopping.
CleanLeft.com (my business)...why let a bunch of illegals clean your house, when a bunch of libs can do it better?

 

[SeanMGilbow]

So because Randi Rhodes talks about Oprah, black people will listen? If I advise my hosts to talk about Gandhi, will our Indian shares increase?

I find it hard to believe eight businesses have sold a station out. In fact, it's impossible. Stations billing $50 and $60 million a year still manage to find time to sell. There should never be a waiting list for spots.

The point regarding the advertisers was that compared with Clear Channel's AM 1230 in its progressive talk days, WVKO actually has advertisers in its first two weeks on the air.

However, for the rest of the stuff...I would refer you to a full-page spread on the station in Columbus' GLBT publication, Outlook Weekly:

http://www.outlookweekly.net

And before anyone starts getting too critical about the station, may I suggest waiting until the first Arbitron numbers are released? The only prediction I will make is that WVKO, unlike AM 1230 as the current WYTS, will actually appear in the Arbitron numbers.

Oh, and Phil sweetie...I'm just an advertiser like the rest of the businesses on the list. The sales staff hasn't even been hired yet.

But if business gets real good, Phil...don't be surprised if you receive an invitation to wrestle in jello with Stephanie Miller and C.C. Goldwater as part of Columbus' Pride celebration next June. Of course, we would bill you in the gay community as the man behind the man Stephanie calls "a big Satanic hunk of stud meat."

For the benefit of the board editors: http://youtube.com/watch?v=O9XZivXe2Zg

 

[jimwalsh2001]

I feel bad for anybody in radio that loses their job, but the enemy is NOT syndication....it is mediocrity.
pb

Touche...couldn't agree more. But Phil, I gotta call you on your earlier comments regarding your optimism about the industry. Let's be fair about this: it's real easy for someone in your lofty position to be optimistic. It's kinda like Joe Kennedy, circa 1934, asking, "Depression? What depression?" ;D

Out here in flyover country, I contend it's a different story...

Phil...still waiting... ;D

 

[jaymarvin]

KCJB is right. Because you talk about Oprah doesn't mean Black people will listen. If you talk about topics that effect Black people then they will listen. That's if they know your there. The same with any other group. A question for Phil. Aren't you the one who said liberal talk would never work, and that liberal talk show hosts can't work on big stick all right-wing stations. If that's so how come myself and others got great numbers on those stations. In fact WLS has lower numbers now in my old day part than when I was there teamed up with Eileen Byrne. The last time I looked at the day part they were getting beat by Kathy and Judy over on WGN. What's better to have hosts with all the same views or a roster of good hosts with many points of view, but with one thing in common. They all know how to do good radio? And syndication is a way for companies to save money. Good talk radio should be live and local. If I live in Colorado do I really care what Bernie Sanders has to say about what's going on in the country? Or for that matter Newt Gingrich? Or do I care there was two tragic shootings in my area, and which would I rather talk about? How about revenue? Can a station make more with a live host or one off the bird?

 

[mobile-exradiodj]

Be careful Jay, Phil might challenge you to a sumo wrestling match with your last post. Of course, everything you just posted will be proved "wrong" by Phil with actual market numbers from stations "he" programs.

 

[jaymarvin]

I hope so. I don't wish him any harm or bad luck at all. Just curious to see what he thinks and has to say. No harm no foul.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

A quick update on the advertisers on WVKO:

Open Sky Day Spa
Uncle Sam's Pawn Shop
Miracle Motor Mart
Roth Produce
Used Kids Records
Meat-Packers Outlet
Ecole Maison Learning Enrichment Center
CleanLeft.com (my business, offering environmentally friendly cleaning products)
Honda of Marysville
Sanfilippo Produce
Columbus Clippers (minor-league baseball, farm team for Washington Senators)
Fun-Trail (truck bed liners and accessories)

Businesses in bold were just added Thursday.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

A quick update on the advertisers on WVKO:

Open Sky Day Spa
Uncle Sam's Pawn Shop
Miracle Motor Mart
Roth Produce
Used Kids Records
Meat-Packers Outlet
Ecole Maison Learning Enrichment Center
CleanLeft.com (my business, offering environmentally friendly cleaning products)
Honda of Marysville
Sanfilippo Produce
Columbus Clippers (minor-league baseball, farm team for Washington Senators)
Fun-Trail (truck bed liners and accessories)

Businesses in bold were just added Thursday.

Truck bed liners? Liberals drive pick-ups? Shazam!

 

[ajhenderson]

Are they all paying sponsors? Having run independent stations like this, there are no doubt a bunch of barter deals. Seems like the Clippers might fall into that category.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Are they all paying sponsors? Having run independent stations like this, there are no doubt a bunch of barter deals. Seems like the Clippers might fall into that category.

Why is a baseball team running spots in December?

OK, maybe season tickets (although it's not clear from the website whether those are on sale yet).

I can hear it now:

Special ticket offers for WVKO listeners. All seats in left field. Twenty per cent of seats in each reserved section reserved for womyn, gays and people of color holding a general admission or bleacher ticket. Special packages available for all Rochester Red Wing and Pawtucket Red Sox series. To show support for the native American community, no packages will be offered for Richmond Braves and Indianapolis Indians series. For each ticket purchased for a Buffalo Bisons game, a donation will be made to save endangered species. At the request of Al Gore, to save energy, we are having more day games this season. Try our organic soy dogs at the refreshment stand. Ten per cent off general admission to womyn wearing pants suits. Come early for the singing of "This Land is Your Land" at the start of each game (and sing "Kumbaya" at the 7th inning stretch). Candle light vigils after all home games.

 

[DaleGriffin]

Awesome

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Are they all paying sponsors? Having run independent stations like this, there are no doubt a bunch of barter deals. Seems like the Clippers might fall into that category.

Why is a baseball team running spots in December?

OK, maybe season tickets (although it's not clear from the website whether those are on sale yet).

I can hear it now:

Special ticket offers for WVKO listeners. All seats in left field. Twenty per cent of seats in each reserved section reserved for womyn, gays and people of color holding a general admission or bleacher ticket. Special packages available for all Rochester Red Wing and Pawtucket Red Sox series. To show support for the native American community, no packages will be offered for Richmond Braves and Indianapolis Indians series. For each ticket purchased for a Buffalo Bisons game, a donation will be made to save endangered species. At the request of Al Gore, to save energy, we are having more day games this season. Try our organic soy dogs at the refreshment stand. Ten per cent off general admission to womyn wearing pants suits. Come early for the singing of "This Land is Your Land" at the start of each game (and sing "Kumbaya" at the 7th inning stretch). Candle light vigils after all home games.

Hello, I must be going.

Clippers season tickets go on sale tomorrow.

Even progressives need a break from the news chatter.

 

[Phil Boyce]

I got a kick out of Mobile saying I would disprove JayMarvins comments with facts and numbers. Right, don't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

Jay says:

Aren't you the one who said liberal talk would never work, and that liberal talk show hosts can't work on big stick all right-wing stations. If that's so how come myself and others got great numbers on those stations. In fact WLS has lower numbers now in my old day part than when I was there teamed up with Eileen Byrne. The last time I looked at the day part they were getting beat by Kathy and Judy over on WGN.

No that's not what I said. I said Air America was doomed to fail because all they would ever get would be the dog AM's that nobody wanted to be on. I created Curtis and Kuby on WABC like a mad scientist growing something in the basement in a petri dish. They turned into my morning show and for 8 years got me good numbers. Kuby was about as left as they come. The show worked for the same reason Jay and Eileen worked. It was a smart show, where both sides of the issues got exposed, and the chemistry and rapport between the hosts made the show sound fun and entertaining...but you always learned something. My argument was that a single liberal host like Ed Shutlz would not score well with WABC's mostly conservative listeners. But a left vs. right show can work, and we proved it, just like you did.

What's better to have hosts with all the same views or a roster of good hosts with many points of view, but with one thing in common. They all know how to do good radio?

Listeners will not listen to a host who infuriates them all the time. So doing good radio is part of it, but not all of it.

And syndication is a way for companies to save money. Good talk radio should be live and local. If I live in Colorado do I really care what Bernie Sanders has to say about what's going on in the country? Or for that matter Newt Gingrich? Or do I care there was two tragic shootings in my area, and which would I rather talk about?

I have done a ton of research and I have never heard a listener say they wanted to listen to station XYZ because they have hosts who are live and local. They listen to hosts because they want to hear what that host has to say. Whether the host is local or national is immaterial to most listeners. Mark Levin on a slow night is better than a lot of local hosts on their best night. What Mark talks about may be national in scope, but if the listener passionately cares about the topic, it strikes a chord with that listener and they are compelled to come back for more. I have nothing against local hosts and every great talk station has to have local hosts who relate to their station and their market. I am just saying that listeners don't really care that Sean Hannity or Mark Levin are syndicated.

How about revenue? Can a station make more with a live host or one off the bird?

Some of them can make more with a local host which is what I think you meant, because that host can do live reads, remotes, and give the clients more TLC. But syndicated hosts have to do better than local hosts in the ratings, otherwise you might as well hire a local guy and keep the inventory. So it depends. I know lots of stations that make a lot of money with Rush and Hannity.

just my 2 cents.

pb

 

[jaymarvin]

Thanks for your answers. I think the only place I would disagree is a left leaning host has to also find topics they can agree with a station's mostly core conservative followers. Pure preaching agenda radio does not work. I also had very big numbers at night on WLS. Not because I'm the savior of liberal talk radio because I knew how to pick what I was going to talk about, and always threw something in for those who were right of center. I also had a lot of nights when I did no politics of any kind and just had fun. It was talk radio anyone could get into. Air America doesn't work, and won't work, because it's too agenda driven and the formatics are bad all the way down to imaging guy. I don't think I was letting the facts get in the way. How many liberals do you have on WABC? None now that I can tell. There are stations with bad local hosts. But there are also stations with some great ones. I'm not going to comment about Mark Levin, but I'll tell you this. When I worked on WFLA and we were all live except for Limbaugh, and when I worked on WLS once again Limbaugh was it and they were great stations, fun to listen too, and had great numbers. I think listeners do care if the host is live or not when you live in a city where there is a lot going on and plenty to talk about, and you have people who can do it. WLS went down hill after Mike Elder left. So in the end I don't think we disagree on much. It all depends on who you have on the air, and if they know how to do good radio. Most on the liberal side (the AAR folks) do not. But that doesn't hold for everyone. Two of the best talk show hosts in this country are Bob Grant (and good for you for putting Bob back on) and Neil Rogers. Now that's talk radio!

 

[cm454]

Thanks for your answers. I think the only place I would disagree is a left leaning host has to also find topics they can agree with a station's mostly core conservative followers. Pure preaching agenda radio does not work. I also had very big numbers at night on WLS. Not because I'm the savior of liberal talk radio because I knew how to pick what I was going to talk about, and always threw something in for those who were right of center. I also had a lot of nights when I did no politics of any kind and just had fun. It was talk radio anyone could get into. Air America doesn't work, and won't work, because it's too agenda driven and the formatics are bad all the way down to imaging guy. I don't think I was letting the facts get in the way. How many liberals do you have on WABC? None now that I can tell. There are stations with bad local hosts. But there are also stations with some great ones. I'm not going to comment about Mark Levin, but I'll tell you this. When I worked on WFLA and we were all live except for Limbaugh, and when I worked on WLS once again Limbaugh was it and they were great stations, fun to listen too, and had great numbers. I think listeners do care if the host is live or not when you live in a city where there is a lot going on and plenty to talk about, and you have people who can do it. WLS went down hill after Mike Elder left. So in the end I don't think we disagree on much. It all depends on who you have on the air, and if they know how to do good radio. Most on the liberal side (the AAR folks) do not. But that doesn't hold for everyone. Two of the best talk show hosts in this country are Bob Grant (and good for you for putting Bob back on) and Neil Rogers. Now that's talk radio!

Bravo.


The amount of narrow-minded programmers out there is truly scary.

It's not the politics, stupid. It's entertainment.

I have to laugh when I hear that "liberal" hosts (which apparently means anyone not trying to immitate Rush) cannot hold an audience---that they're just not entertaining or interesting. The FACT is, this format has been catering to one mindset for quite a while now. It's no wonder that less-than-conservative host don't catch fire quickly. It's not that the Rush clones are so fascinating, it's got more to do with the mindset of the entrenched audience and the format image as a whole.

There are a tremendous amount of conservative talkers who engage in a daily borefest that they call a talkshow. Having that opinion of them doesn't mean I am not a "true" talkradio fan, it instead means that I am not a member of the niche that talkradio has decided it would so limitingly cater to.

People of all mindsets are prime candidates for a spot in the talkradio audience, you just have to give them a reason to listen. Fostering a right-wing politics image is not the way to do that.

Yes, radio, talkradio, is a business. As such, it should have a long-term business model to lay the groundwork for continued success. Does this plan exist? Seemingly not.

How ironic that talkradio, as well as the rest of the industry, is NOT planning for the future in a way that is reasonable or realistic, especially from a programming standpoint. The reason I say it's ironic, is because there has always been that staple of radio, the vagabond DJ traveling from town to town, who, due to a lack of planning and an overall ignorance of reality--or just complete delusion, ends up with little more than a string of broken marriages, no money in the bank and a box of old airchecks.

That, unless something changes, is where I see the indutstry as a whole in the not-so-distant future.

The radio business is slowly being poisoned by those who claim to be it's savior.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

cm454 wrote:

> ... "liberal" hosts (which apparently means anyone not trying to immitate Rush) ...

Seems to me a big part of the problem with libtalk is most of the hosts are trying to imitate Rush.

(1) They don't do his act very well.
(2) His act doesn't appeal to most liberals.

 

[cm454]

cm454 wrote:

> ... "liberal" hosts (which apparently means anyone not trying to immitate Rush) ...

Seems to me a big part of the problem with libtalk is most of the hosts are trying to imitate Rush.

(1) They don't do his act very well.
(2) His act doesn't appeal to most liberals.

Anyone trying to immitate RUsh, whether on the right or left, misses the friggin' point: Rush is an entertainer first and foremost. Talk hosts should entertain us by talking in an interesting way about interesting things. Politics is only ONE thing.

 

[jaymarvin]

There's a little bit of somebody else in all of us. For me it's a mix of people like Bob Grant, Joe Pyne, Jimmy Rabbitt, and Charlie Douglas. In that I mean everyone starts out trying to sound like the hosts they like. Then somewhere along the line they find their own voice and style. Talk show hosts who are out to score agenda points and out Limbaugh Limbaugh are wasting their time. Won't work. Plus Phil is very right about one thing, well maybe a lot of things, Liberal talk is on dog AM's across the country. But I maintain even if they were on bigger signals they'd have trouble. Because it's about good radio not getting a Dem elected to the White House. It's the same thing that makes right-wing talk radio so damn boring. All the hosts sound the same. After a while what's the point? You've heard it all before why hear it again? I love radio and have all my life. But these days I'm bored with much of what I hear. And I guess I keep saying this over and over on this board. I should stop now and I will.