Taylor Swift - done at country?

[firepoint525]

Taylor just did what Faith and Shania before her have also done.

And Elvis, Brenda Lee, and Patsy Cline.

Wrong, Elvis never turned his back on country, and in fact in later years, actually kinda sorta returned to country. Brenda Lee was never really "country" to begin with. She was the LeAnn Rimes of her day. :'Nuff said about that! And Patsy Cline? She never left country, although she had some mild pop acceptance. Had she lived, she probably would have followed the Loretta Lynn route. After all, they were close friends.

 

[firepoint525]

all better than Taylor Swift. IMHO she is mediocre at best, not horrible just not worthy to be the "biggest" current artist.

I would have to agree with this. Swift is not necessarily "bad," but she is NOT hard-core "country." She is actually more in the vein of Carly Rae Jepsen and other popsters out there these days.

 

[TheBigA]

Wrong, Elvis never turned his back on country,

You're welcome to your opinion, but none of his teen hits from the 60s charted country. He recorded most of them in Hollywood, not Nashville. If you look at Joel Whitburn's book, you'll see a big gap from 1960 to 1970. And yes, he did return to country in his later years. He is in both the Rock & Roll and Country Halls of Fame. As for Brenda, she had numerous country hits, including a duet with George Jones. She too is in both the Rock & Roll and Country Halls of Fame. Patsy Cline also had several pop hits, which puts her in the same category with Faith, Shania, and Taylor. The production style Owen Bradley used on her records was dramatically different from Loretta Lynn. Unlike Patsy, Loretta never had a song chart higher than #56 in the pop charts.

 

[nmoore6676]

Wrong, Elvis never turned his back on country,

You're welcome to your opinion, but none of his teen hits from the 60s charted country. He recorded most of them in Hollywood, not Nashville. If you look at Joel Whitburn's book, you'll see a big gap from 1960 to 1970. And yes, he did return to country in his later years. He is in both the Rock & Roll and Country Halls of Fame. As for Brenda, she had numerous country hits, including a duet with George Jones. She too is in both the Rock & Roll and Country Halls of Fame. Patsy Cline also had several pop hits, which puts her in the same category with Faith, Shania, and Taylor. The production style Owen Bradley used on her records was dramatically different from Loretta Lynn. Unlike Patsy, Loretta never had a song chart higher than #56 in the pop charts.

Not all together Elvis' fault. His manager/promoter, Colonel Tom Parker, pushed Elvis in the Hollywood direction. I personally consider most of his best singing performances on record to have been done in Nashville. But had Elvis not have taken the path he did he might never have been as famous and popular, even today, as he was and is. There were almost literally hundreds of Rockabilly artists in the 1950s and early 60s. How many of them do you know?

Conway Twitty went solid country as did George Jones, and Jerry Lee. Same with Waylon even Johnny Cash. But Johnny sort of rode in as a folk artist on Columbia and only dabbled in rock while still at Sun Records. Waylon could have sung the Nashville phone book in any style from folk to blues and it would have been good.

 

[TheBigA]

Not all together Elvis' fault.

It's not about fault, just about fact. For ten years, his songs didn't chart country at all.

In the case of Tayler, her label didn't release "I Knew You Were Trouble" or "22" to country radio.

 

[nmoore6676]

Not all together Elvis' fault.

It's not about fault, just about fact. For ten years, his songs didn't chart country at all.

In the case of Tayler, her label didn't release "I Knew You Were Trouble" or "22" to country radio.

Good, maybe she will try rap next. Country won't miss her but nevertheless every Country awards show has to have her on it. But she isn't even a good pop artist, she is just plain MEDIOCRE. If you love her that is just fine but many of us DON'T.

Justin Bieber is hot now, but is he the best teen rage ever? Not by a long shot but Elvis once was.

 

[TheBigA]

If you love her that is just fine but many of us DON'T.

I'm not a music critic. But she does seem to be able to sell a lot of records and fill a lot of stadiums. No one is forcing any of them to spend their money.

 

[firepoint525]

Wrong, Elvis never turned his back on country,

You're welcome to your opinion, but none of his teen hits from the 60s charted country. He recorded most of them in Hollywood, not Nashville. If you look at Joel Whitburn's book, you'll see a big gap from 1960 to 1970.

Actually, most of his "hits" from the mid '60s didn't even really chart all that high on pop, either. Had he been a "lesser" artist, his career would have been for all intents and purposes, OVER by about 1965! And his original intentions way back when was actually to be a GOSPEL singer. He wanted to join the Blackwood Brothers. And NMoore has it right. Almost any decision that the King made which might have appeared to be "boneheaded" to the rest of us could likely be attributed to the "colonel." He might have had a good ear for what made $$$$, but he wouldn't have recognized real talent if it bit him in the ass!

And yes, he did return to country in his later years. He is in both the Rock & Roll and Country Halls of Fame.

No problem with that, he belongs in both, as well as the rockabilly and gospel halls, if he is not in both already.

As for Brenda, she had numerous country hits, including a duet with George Jones. She too is in both the Rock & Roll and Country Halls of Fame.

Again, no issue with that, she belongs in both. But even she would probably tell you that she is NOT hardcore "country."

Patsy Cline also had several pop hits, which puts her in the same category with Faith, Shania, and Taylor. The production style Owen Bradley used on her records was dramatically different from Loretta Lynn. Unlike Patsy, Loretta never had a song chart higher than #56 in the pop charts.

If any oldies stations still played Patsy Cline along with other music from that era, I might agree with you. But I would NOT consider Cline a true "crossover" artist in the realm of Faith, Shania, and Taylor. It is obvious that LeAnn Rimes was way more inspired by Brenda Lee (they both recorded "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree," 'nuff said about that!) than she ever was by Patsy Cline, despite being forced by her dad to record "Blue."

 

[firepoint525]

Good, maybe she will try rap next. Country won't miss her but nevertheless every Country awards show has to have her on it. But she isn't even a good pop artist, she is just plain MEDIOCRE. If you love her that is just fine but many of us DON'T.

Yeah, country will miss her about as much as they miss Faith and Shania. I can't help but think of the hypocrisy when I hear Shania's song "You're Still the One," and remember that she and "Mutt" are no longer together. Yeah, it's his fault, since he was apparently the one who had the affair, but he was also a co-writer of that song, like he was on most of Shania's best-known material.

 

[nmoore6676]

If you love her that is just fine but many of us DON'T.

I'm not a music critic. But she does seem to be able to sell a lot of records and fill a lot of stadiums. No one is forcing any of them to spend their money.

A lot of people shop at WalMart. Does that mean that WalMart is the best store with the best merchandise and best prices?

In most cases it is just because that through a process of forced market share and aggressiveness they have just become the only game in town. What I am saying is that biggest isn't necessarily better.

I for one will never every be in a stadium where Ms. Swift is the entertainment. Nor will I ever have a single song of hers in my personal collection. Others can and do feel differently. My only gripe is that like WalMart sometimes the "collective" forces choices on us all. As I attempt to purchase music, legally, from artists I've heard on various classic country or rock stations or even on stage at the lesser venues I find that music just not available despite what should almost be an unlimited menu if the technology wonks were telling us the truth.

Just as we have more and more TV channels but really less variety we find Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber are always prominently in view in the prime locations at many stores and on such places as Amazon.com and I-Tunes. Sour grapes on my part, probably, but I have my preferences and opinions and I'll stick with them despite the forces trying to make me just accept what I don't really like.

 

[TheBigA]

A lot of people shop at WalMart. Does that mean that WalMart is the best store with the best merchandise and best prices?

If you go through this thread, I have never made any qualitative statement about her singing or music, and it's not the job of radio to do that either. Radio's job is to play what's popular. She is. Whether she's the best singer doesn't matter.

I have my preferences and opinions and I'll stick with them despite the forces trying to make me just accept what I don't really like.

No one's forcing you to like anything. By the same token, you shouldn't try to impose your taste on others.

 

[firepoint525]

A lot of people shop at WalMart. Does that mean that WalMart is the best store with the best merchandise and best prices?
In most cases it is just because that through a process of forced market share and aggressiveness they have just become the only game in town. What I am saying is that biggest isn't necessarily better.

Yeah, I like McDonald's, and I eat there a lot. Probably too much! But the McDonald's at exit 322 off of I-40 in Crossville, Tennessee, is right next door to the Bean Pot restaurant, one of my faves from my childhood. But no way in hell would I eat at McDonald's when the Bean Pot is right next door! Settle for fast food when home cookin' is right next door? Ain't happening! (Unfortunately, I live over 100 miles from there, but it is a treat for me whenever I am going to, or returning from, beautiful east Tennessee.)

I for one will never every be in a stadium where Ms. Swift is the entertainment. Nor will I ever have a single song of hers in my personal collection. Others can and do feel differently. My only gripe is that like WalMart sometimes the "collective" forces choices on us all. As I attempt to purchase music, legally, from artists I've heard on various classic country or rock stations or even on stage at the lesser venues I find that music just not available despite what should almost be an unlimited menu if the technology wonks were telling us the truth.

I am right now trying to find (on any source) some local stuff that I heard played on Memphis radio back in the '80s. I only have this material on a cassette that I recorded directly off the air back then. Some of it is on youtube now, but much of it is just frustratingly NOT available anywhere now, on any format!

Just as we have more and more TV channels but really less variety we find Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber are always prominently in view in the prime locations at many stores and on such places as Amazon.com and I-Tunes. Sour grapes on my part, probably, but I have my preferences and opinions and I'll stick with them despite the forces trying to make me just accept what I don't really like.

I am just about the biggest Deborah Allen fan that you will ever find anywhere. But since she was never really that big of a star, she has remained amazingly accessible. I have met her on several occasions, and am a Facebook friend of hers. She will hit the big 6-0 this year, but could still pass for 30! Amazingly gorgeous! But because of the youthful obsession with pop and, yes, country music, too, she has continued to make a very good living for herself as a songwriter.

My wife and I are big fans of both Ronnie Lee Twist (rockabilly performer) and the WannaBeatles. Both will never be really big names, and they probably know it, too, but we both personally know and have met Twist and the WannaBeatles. Twist has since moved to Vegas to further his career, but we still routinely see the Wannabeatles perform in and around Nashville.

A tale of two performers. Eddy Arnold fired the "colonel" as his manager and lived to be in his '90s, while Elvis kept him on, and died at 42. Arnold, of course, never became anywhere near as big of a name as Elvis, but he is still a legend. (Even ran for governor here, once!) I don't believe that Arnold ever even aspired to be as big as Elvis, but he still became, and still remains, a legend in his own right and under his own terms.

 

[James Otto Sweet Heart]

^^^ Where in East Tennessee are you? I am just 45 miles east of Knoxville.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[firepoint525]

^^^ Where in East Tennessee are you? I am just 45 miles east of Knoxville.
God bless you always!!!
Holly

I'm in middle Tennessee, just west of Nashville. 100+ miles to the west of Crossville. My parents probably go to that McDonald's at the Crossville exit, just for the senior discount on the coffee, and skip the Bean Pot!

 

[ChrisInMI]

If any oldies stations still played Patsy Cline along with other music from that era, I might agree with you. But I would NOT consider Cline a true "crossover" artist in the realm of Faith, Shania, and Taylor. It is obvious that LeAnn Rimes was way more inspired by Brenda Lee (they both recorded "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree," 'nuff said about that!) than she ever was by Patsy Cline, despite being forced by her dad to record "Blue."

My two cents here:

* First of all, very little if any early 1960s music still gets airplay on pop oldies stations period. "Runaway" and "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" are no more likely to be heard on your average "classic hits" station today than "Crazy." But when Clear Channel was doing its "Real Oldies" format on WSAI Cincy, WRLL Chicago and other stations, Patsy was certainly part of the playlist. And her music is played on Adult Standards radio as well.
* "I Fall To Pieces" was Billboard's #2 Hot 100 single of 1961 - ranking higher than "Runaway," "Will You Love Me Tomorrow," "Stand By Me" and every other song that year except Bobby Lewis' "Tossin' And Turnin." Surprising to be sure, considering it never made the pop top 10, but there it is. Also, four Top 20 pop hits (one of which made top 10) may not have made her a pop superstar of Taylor Swift caliber, but it certainly makes her more than solely a country attraction.
* When VH1 did their countdown of the 100 Greatest Women of Rock and Roll a number of years ago, Patsy Cline ranked #11. Higher than Stevie Nicks, the Supremes, Linda Ronstadt or Barbra Streisand.

Bottom line, Patsy's popularity did then, and continues to, cross genre lines, so it's probably pointless to argue about categorizations anyway. No matter what you consider her to be, I think we can agree that she was an amazing talent and taken far too soon.

And for what it's worth, Taylor Swift is more Debbie Gibson than Brenda Lee to me. She appeals to today's teenage girls in much the same way that Debbie appealed to teenage girls in 1987-1989, and like Debbie, she writes her own material. Except that Debbie was, and is, a better singer. (Debbie was good enough to do Broadway. From what I've seen of Taylor's live performances, she isn't very good live.)

 

[nmoore6676]

A lot of people shop at WalMart. Does that mean that WalMart is the best store with the best merchandise and best prices?

If you go through this thread, I have never made any qualitative statement about her singing or music, and it's not the job of radio to do that either. Radio's job is to play what's popular. She is. Whether she's the best singer doesn't matter.

I have my preferences and opinions and I'll stick with them despite the forces trying to make me just accept what I don't really like.

No one's forcing you to like anything. By the same token, you shouldn't try to impose your taste on others.

Not talking about qualitative statements just that you keep coming back with "she is the most popular or the biggest" or whatever. From that I infer that you are also making a quality justification of her popularity. Plus since you seem to be so offended that I would rate her as mediocre.

Yes I am being forced to partake if I chose to listen to popular or current music stations because that is what they play. As more stations feel that they must follow suit and play what is popular the variety of music I like becomes less available.

Finding real classic country or rock stations is becoming harder and harder. Radio is becoming more and more consolidated, either through direct ownership or satellite and syndication. Of the dozen radio stations easily receivable in my home, 3 (2 FM and 1 AM are locally owned and programmed. Four in one local conglomerate (3 FM and 1 AM) are on the three FMs. Dial Global satellite and their one AM is maybe 10% local and the rest syndicated. There is one FM, Dial Global Classic Country and another FM Scott Shannon's true oldies, which I do enjoy now and again. The others are religious stations.

SO most of my listening is now over the internet from stations which are independently owned by people who love radio and variety and believe in what the offer. That however will likely only continue so long as the owners remain somewhat solvent and in good health. If they die or have to sell then there goes my choices, even with internet. Do you understand what I am saying now?

I don't care what you like, you can have it, but others may not want your music or mine and I am old enough to recall when a simple radio with no internet or satellite could tune around and find something we liked even if it was on skip after midnight. Now there is no skip reception option as almost everything I get across my dial is the same Coast to Coast with George Noory. And yes it is on one of our local AMs as well.

But in conclusion I'll just let you chalk me up as one bitter old fart and lets move on to another topic.

 

[TheBigA]

Plus since you seem to be so offended that I would rate her as mediocre.

Huh? Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I'll say it again. I'm not a music critic. I'm in radio. In radio, we play what's popular, whether it's Trisha Yearwood or dogs barking. Even if you were a published music critic, with a Pulitzer Prize, I wouldn't care one bit how you rate her. Nor does anyone care how *I* rate her. Which is why I don't.

 

[firepoint525]

If any oldies stations still played Patsy Cline along with other music from that era, I might agree with you. But I would NOT consider Cline a true "crossover" artist in the realm of Faith, Shania, and Taylor. It is obvious that LeAnn Rimes was way more inspired by Brenda Lee (they both recorded "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree," 'nuff said about that!) than she ever was by Patsy Cline, despite being forced by her dad to record "Blue."

My two cents here:
* First of all, very little if any early 1960s music still gets airplay on pop oldies stations period. "Runaway" and "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" are no more likely to be heard on your average "classic hits" station today than "Crazy." But when Clear Channel was doing its "Real Oldies" format on WSAI Cincy, WRLL Chicago and other stations, Patsy was certainly part of the playlist. And her music is played on Adult Standards radio as well.

Pay attention. I said "oldies," NOT "classic hits." Yeah, I know that "oldies" are not being played much anymore. I am referring to when they actually WERE still being played. No one around here was playing Patsy Cline on oldies stations even when we had them, and I live in Nashville!

 

[nmoore6676]

If any oldies stations still played Patsy Cline along with other music from that era, I might agree with you. But I would NOT consider Cline a true "crossover" artist in the realm of Faith, Shania, and Taylor. It is obvious that LeAnn Rimes was way more inspired by Brenda Lee (they both recorded "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree," 'nuff said about that!) than she ever was by Patsy Cline, despite being forced by her dad to record "Blue."

My two cents here:
* First of all, very little if any early 1960s music still gets airplay on pop oldies stations period. "Runaway" and "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" are no more likely to be heard on your average "classic hits" station today than "Crazy." But when Clear Channel was doing its "Real Oldies" format on WSAI Cincy, WRLL Chicago and other stations, Patsy was certainly part of the playlist. And her music is played on Adult Standards radio as well.

Pay attention. I said "oldies," NOT "classic hits." Yeah, I know that "oldies" are not being played much anymore. I am referring to when they actually WERE still being played. No one around here was playing Patsy Cline on oldies stations even when we had them, and I live in Nashville!

Patsy Cline does get played an many stations but only "Crazy". Classic Country as in Dial Global and similarly formatted stations play "Crazy" but probably more because Willie Nelson wrote it. Rarely and mostly on smaller independent outlets do they go deeper. Personally I own a lot of Patsy some of which IS pretty obscure. Once in a while an Eddie Stubbs or Chubby Howard like DJ will dig out "Honky Tonk Merry Go Round" or "Walking After Midnight".

I would have thought that in Nashville there would have been more of Patsy, again Crazy, and possibly "Sweet Dreams" except for Rock stations. How soon they forget which might bode well for us Taylor non-fans. It can not be long until a new brighter and hopefully more talented sensation will pop up.

 

[radioboy]

Speaking of East Tennessee, when I was in Madisonville I picked up WKVL on 850 AM. They
had some deeper cuts that aren't played often.

I have some Patsy Cline vinyl records that I play occasionally including "Walking After Midnight," "She's Got You" and others.

As I stated elsewhere, my station plays a lot of country basically from the 1950s to now. Because it is non-commercial the demos aren't as important. Since July marks my 9th year it isn't as dismal a failure as some would think.

I have managed a terrestrial station in the past and although it was not a country station, the format was pretty tight. I feel fortunate in an early retirement on disability to at least be able to have some enjoyment in my favorite genre playing country for lots of folks.

I just don't have the "If it's new I hate it, if it's old I like it" thing going on. I like, and dislike, some of it no matter the age of it. But as for terrestrial, well, have not listened much in over 10 years. Including when I was still working in it up to 2004.