Thank you, Oldies 103

[spilot113]

So, apparently they don't see any merit (at least yet) in his complaint.

Won't wash. The owner at least deserved to be told that there was no merit. Instead, he was met with silence. There's no excuse for it, especially since the agency promised to look into all such complaints.

The silence either means that they are "looking into said complaint".....or that they see no merit in his situation. In either case, there has been no finding of interference in theri protected contour.

So, apparently they don't see any merit (at least yet) in his complaint.

Why don't you name the ones that are off? Every one of them. Along with their HD status?...I'm not helping you out of your mess off incorrect statements.

It's not up to me to prove or disprove your statements. YOU were the one who said most were back on. Prove it.

We could play this game all day. I (and "NH Radio") made a statement and you challenged it without any proof. I checked with a source there and provided a direct quote from the email i received. If you have any authoritative information that would be helpful in the discusion. However you are free to believe whatever you want....as incorrect as it may be.

Take a step back and look at what you're defending: An expensive, defective product...

I'm not defending anything or anybody....just correcting factual mistakes on your part.

I could care less if it succeeds or fails. If the public picks up on it or not.

What I responded to was over the top emotional comments ("..A defective product...", "...lies through its teeth...", "...without insulting someone", "...without any compelling content", "...bordering on the extortionate...").

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

The silence either means that they are "looking into said complaint".....or that they see no merit in his situation. In either case, there has been no finding of interference in theri protected contour.

The filings were made last fall. What's taking them so long? Are they afraid they screwed up in approving this system and are unwilling to admit it, or is it something else?

We could play this game all day. I (and "NH Radio") made a statement and you challenged it without any proof. I checked with a source there and provided a direct quote from the email i received. If you have any authoritative information that would be helpful in the discusion. However you are free to believe whatever you want....as incorrect as it may be.

It's not incorrect. Apparently I have to do all your work for you:

http://topazdesigns.com/iboc/station-list.html - "AM IBOC Stations on the Air"

The following are the AM stations owned by Citadel which are reportedly running HD. They are ALL listed as not running HD at night (as of June 30th):

630 WPRO Providence RI
630 WMAL Washington DC
640 WWLS Moore OK
670 KBOI Boise ID
690 WSPZ Birmingham AL
740 KVOR Colorado Springs CO
760 WJR Detroit MI
770 WABC New York NY
790 KABC Los Angeles CA (mistakenly attributed to ABC Radio, not Citadel)
810 KGO San Francisco CA
820 WBAP Fort Worth TX
890 WLS Chicago IL
920 KARN Little Rock AR
970 KESP Modesto CA
1070 WAPI Birmingham AL
1290 KCUB Tucson AZ
1300 KKML Colorado Springs CO
1400 KTUC Tucson AZ

Did most of the stations on this list turn HD back on at night in the past 13 days? Do you have information that the broadcast consulting engineer who maintains this list doesn't have?

BTW, NHRadio asked a question. He didn't make a statement.

What I responded to was over the top emotional comments ("..A defective product...", "...lies through its teeth...", "...without insulting someone", "...without any compelling content", "...bordering on the extortionate...").

If essentially reposting the same comments which have been stated previously by many highly regarded executives and engineers with decades of service in the broadcasting business qualifies as "emotional," I'm happy to be in their company.

 

[spilot113]

The silence either means that they are "looking into said complaint".....or that they see no merit in his situation. In either case, there has been no finding of interference in theri protected contour.

The filings were made last fall. What's taking them so long?

Whats taking so long? Quite possibly because there is no merit in this case.

We could play this game all day. I (and "NH Radio") made a statement and you challenged it without any proof. I checked with a source there and provided a direct quote from the email i received. If you have any authoritative information that would be helpful in the discusion. However you are free to believe whatever you want....as incorrect as it may be.

It's not incorrect. Apparently I have to do all your work for you:

http://topazdesigns.com/iboc/station-list.html - "AM IBOC Stations on the Air"

I believe this list to be outdated. (Is Topazdesign an authority on IBOC...or just designing web pages?)

You can believe a web designer if you like (it's certainly your right).....

I choose to believe an in-house source at ABC.

What I responded to was over the top emotional comments ("..A defective product...", "...lies through its teeth...", "...without insulting someone", "...without any compelling content", "...bordering on the extortionate...").

If essentially reposting the same comments which have been stated previously by many highly regarded executives and engineers...

So basically you are just parroting words you've heard others say.

 

[ZRXOA 5248]

Interesting piece on AM IBOC, including a reference to the NY station on 1040 filing a complaint against WBZ for interfering with the Rochester stations protected area.

Also mentions what Companies are shutting IBOC down at night, and which ones are not buying into it at all

http://www.radioworld.com/pages/s.0048/t.10171.html

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

I believe this list to be outdated. (Is Topazdesign an authority on IBOC...or just designing web pages?)

He's a consulting engineer from Canada, who is studying HD radio for the Canadian government. Since all AM broadcasting in North America is subject to international treaties, he's also studying whether HD interference from US AM stations is a violation of those treaties.

And if you had actually read what I had posted, or clicked on the link provided, you would have noticed that the list is updated as of June 30th, 2008.

So basically you are just parroting words you've heard others say.

I don't parrot anything I haven't researched for myself.

 

[spilot113]

I believe this list to be outdated. (Is Topazdesign an authority on IBOC...or just designing web pages?)

And if you had actually read what I had posted, or clicked on the link provided, you would have noticed that the list is updated as of June 30th, 2008.
He's a consulting engineer from Canada, who is studying HD radio for the Canadian government.

I certainly did read his claim of 6/30.....but, again, I don't know the validity of the source....or the dates he claims.

But if it's on the internet, it must be true!

I prefer to believe it from the horses mouth from ABC/Citadel.

You are free to believe whatever you like.

So basically you are just parroting words you've heard others say.

I don't parrot anything I haven't researched for myself.

So, the engineers that agree with you are all correct and those that come to a different conclusion are all wrong?

I suppose your findings are better than Mark Manuelian at WBZ, along with the head on engineering at CBS Radio and the engineering staff at all the other companies that are continuing to use IBOC on AM at night?

They're all dopes?

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

I suppose your findings are better than Mark Manuelian at WBZ, along with the head on engineering at CBS Radio and the engineering staff at all the other companies that are continuing to use IBOC on AM at night?

They're all dopes?

They're all being told what to do from higher up in the company. It's not just the FCC that ignores the considered, scientifically-based conclusions of their engineers. Remember too that the DOE at CBS Radio is Glynn Walden, late of iBiquity, so it's only natural that CBS will be jumping on that bandwagon and ignoring the interference complaints. WYSL's complaint is no small matter when it challenges one of the people who put HD radio in its final form.

 

[Keith321]

I suppose your findings are better than Mark Manuelian at WBZ, along with the head on engineering at CBS Radio and the engineering staff at all the other companies that are continuing to use IBOC on AM at night?

They're all dopes?

They're all being told what to do from higher up in the company. It's not just the FCC that ignores the considered, scientifically-based conclusions of their engineers. Remember too that the DOE at CBS Radio is Glynn Walden, late of iBiquity, so it's only natural that CBS will be jumping on that bandwagon and ignoring the interference complaints. WYSL's complaint is no small matter when it challenges one of the people who put HD radio in its final form.

-so you are smarter than the engineers AND higher ups too? not surpriosed at radio-info everyones a self appointed know it all

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

I suppose your findings are better than Mark Manuelian at WBZ, along with the head on engineering at CBS Radio and the engineering staff at all the other companies that are continuing to use IBOC on AM at night?

They're all dopes?

They're all being told what to do from higher up in the company. It's not just the FCC that ignores the considered, scientifically-based conclusions of their engineers. Remember too that the DOE at CBS Radio is Glynn Walden, late of iBiquity, so it's only natural that CBS will be jumping on that bandwagon and ignoring the interference complaints. WYSL's complaint is no small matter when it challenges one of the people who put HD radio in its final form.

-so you are smarter than the engineers AND higher ups too? not surpriosed at radio-info everyones a self appointed know it all

I've been in radio almost 40 years, most of that time spent in engineering. I've seen the charlatans and side-show freaks who profess to have all the answers come and go. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I can easily see where this is going because I've seen it before.

HD radio on the transmitter side was marketed exclusively to upper management...people who come from sales. They know nothing about technology, except how to turn on their radios (and, truth be told, some have trouble with that too). iBiquity knew perfectly well that if they marketed HD to engineers, it would die an immediate death. This way, they're just postponing the inevitable.

Please note that not one person or company can give us a straight answer as to how many HD receivers have been sold. iBiquity isn't talking about it, probably because the sales figures would be nothing to write home about. I've seen 100,000, 300,000 or 500,000 thrown about, but no one has a source for any of those figures other than someone's guess. There's all sorts of anecdotal evidence of large rates of return, but again, nothing specific. Don't you think that if this tech were actually going somewhere, its progenitors would be shouting it from the rooftops? The bandwagon effect is one of the strongest marketing tools there is...the reason, for example, why Apple has sold 140 million iPods to date, and had long lines outside AT&T phone stores last week when the latest iPhone went on sale. They're must-have items. "All your friends are buying them, why aren't you?" works spectacularly well for Apple...but HD is of interest only to radio geeks.

Problem is, HD isn't an "answer" for anything. Listeners will turn off their radios or change stations, regardless of the tech being used, if they don't like the content. That's right, content. Music stations didn't suddenly move off of the AM band onto FM just because the fidelity was better on FM. FM had been widely available for years before music stations moved over, and people had no specific objection to listening to music on AM, often through a tinny 2-inch transistor radio speaker held up to their heads. When FM programming started offering something different from AM, something that people wanted to listen to, the music formats moved over, and AM had to re-invent itself as a talk and sports medium. What passes for music today is very often highly bit-rate-compressed MP3s in which the artifacts are easily audible, even if you don't have golden ears. In fact, some of those MP3s still sound better than HD, which pretends that its FM side (96 kbps) is CD quality (1411 kpbs)...and yes, that claim is repeated several times on the hdradio.com and ibiquity.com web sites, in spite of the fact that it's demonstrably false.

I'm just tired of seeing radio make the same mistakes again and again, and then wondering why the latest nostrums don't work. They refuse to see problems that are staring them in the face, but run to the government at the first sign of trouble to "protect" them from imaginary competitors, and invent "solutions" like HD, which is an answer in search of a question.

 

[spilot113]

HD radio on the transmitter side was marketed exclusively to upper management...people who come from sales. They know nothing about technology, except how to turn on their radios

This is an oversimplified and incorrect assumption. The heads of engineering at most companies were involved with these decisions.

Please note that not one person or company can give us a straight answer as to how many HD receivers have been sold.

It doesn't matter how many have been sold.

Don't you think that if this tech were actually going somewhere, its progenitors would be shouting it from the rooftops? The bandwagon effect is one of the strongest marketing tools there is...the reason, for example, why Apple has sold 140 million iPods to date, and had long lines outside AT&T phone stores last week when the latest iPhone went on sale.

Again, IBOC doesn't have to "go anywhere"... You and another commenter have made comparisons to DVD's and Ipods. IBOC isn't out to conquer and replace every radio. (Never mind in the short time it's been around)

It's an added technology which allows more functionality. (Like stereo).

Listeners will turn off their radios or change stations, regardless of the tech being used, if they don't like the content.

I will agree with you there.

Problem is, HD isn't an "answer" for anything. When FM programming started offering something different from AM, something that people wanted to listen to,

The ability to receive multiple streams is the "something different"....and that's not going anywhere.

People who want Folk, Jazz, Chorale, 70's, Classic Country, etc are all the "different somethings" from the normal offerrings. Granted this isn't the masses....but, like I said, these streams are not out to become the new number one stations....it's just added value.

Whether people become aware of the offerings or even care to pursue them is another story.

As far as sound quality, I've seen focus groups where people complain about the sound quality on XM and Sirius as well.

I've been in radio almost 40 years, most of that time spent in engineering. I've seen the charlatans and side-show freaks who profess to have all the answers come and go. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I can easily see where this is going because I've seen it before.

I've been in radio almost the same amount of time, enough to know that no one can predict where the technology is going. Also, that there are things that the public pick up on...and things they don't. Most of it is beyond our control.

I could care less whether it 'takes off' or not. I just don't think the radio geeks on message boards are going to stop it. There seems to be an awful lot of emotional, over-the-top, anyone who disagrees with me is wrong attitude.

...from imaginary competitors, and invent "solutions" like HD, which is an answer in search of a question.

The "question" is...."Are there alternatives to traditional radio....cuz I don't like the commercials or the format offerrings? Is the only alternative that I pay satelite fees for the rest of my life..."

Answer: yes are alternatives and HD is one of them.

And with most things in a free market society, the more choices the better.

Now the HD programming hasn't hired Oprah, Stern, Barbara Walters, etc., etc...to raise the consciousness of their product...but that game plan hasn't wokred well for the satelite companies either has it?

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Now the HD programming hasn't hired Oprah, Stern, Barbara Walters, etc., etc...to raise the consciousness of their product...but that game plan hasn't wokred well for the satelite companies either has it?

Satellite is another kettle of fish altogether. They've hired lots of big names too...and quickly found themselves overextended. Their business model rested too heavily on getting enough consistent growth in subscribers to be running in the black by now...and it didn't pan out. Paying Howard Stern $100 million (part of that for his salary, and the rest for the programming costs of the channels he has charge of) to get him to jump to a medium where he has essentially disappeared was one of the stupidest moves I've ever seen any radio company make. Opie & Anthony did so well at XM that they cut a deal with CBS Radio to syndicate their show on OTA stations. With subscriber growth levelling off and churn rates still a problem, they had to go hat-in-hand to the FCC and the Justice Department to beg for a merger, and a lot of people, not unjustifiably, think that satrad's problems are largely of their own making. I've been an XM subscriber for over four years, and listen to tons of programming that OTA radio won't program, but I'm not kidding myself that it's going to wipe OTA radio off the map, as the NAB fears. At least the HD programmers don't pretend that they have money to hire big names just for HD, since HD makes no broadcaster so much as a penny.

 

[scooty430]

HD is pointless. We'll soon have the internet in our cars, and we already have it at home. Thousands of stations available for free, no commercials, and no new equipment to buy.

Next....

 

[Keith321]

HD is pointless. We'll soon have the internet in our cars, and we already have it at home. Thousands of stations available for free, no commercials, and no new equipment to buy.

So, people will be able to listen to the secondary HD channels thru the internet in the car?

However:

"Soon"? That's a relative term.

"No equipment to buy"? You think auto manufacturers are going to give you the equipment (and internet connection) for free?

So, people will be able to listen to the secondary HD channels thru the internet?

 

[Eli Polonsky]

So, people will be able to listen to the secondary HD channels thru the internet in the car?

There are a few stations that also stream their HD-2 programming online... but not many of them.

 

[Keith321]

So, people will be able to listen to the secondary HD channels thru the internet in the car?

There are a few stations that also stream their HD-2 programming online... but not many of them.

These HD2 streams all available in this area online.

# 107.9 -WXKS-HD2 - New CHR
# 106.7 -WMJX-HD2 - Jazz *
# 105.7 -WROR-HD2 - 70's *
# 102.5 -WKLB-HD2 - Classic Ctry *
# 96.9 - WTKK-HD2 - Irish *
# 96.1 - WSRS-HD2 - The Pride
# 94.5 - WJMN-HD2 - Old Skool Hip-Hop
# 93.7 - WMKK-HD2 - "Star 93.7" *
# 92.9 - WBOS-HD2 - RadioYOU *
# 89.7 - WGBH-HD2 - Classical *
# 89.7 - WGBH-HD3 - News(WCAI) *

 

[vibe]

Makes you wanna get on a train and get out of their listening area provided you know what time it is. Good point, much too much reptition.

 

[Ombudsman]

Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I'm not feeling the HD radio or having the Internet in cars. Hell, I don't even know how to turn on a computer, let alone own one.