The big question is, how did radio respond?

[stacker]

NightAire, I would be in a house, in the tub, with a mattress over me.

 

[Kent]

I was listening to KTOK at the time. They were carrying the audio from KFOR-TV. The guy on the TV was TELLING people to "get out of the way, drive south, you have about 10 minutes..." over and over and over again.

I heard this, too. Truth is, if you drive and go at a 90 degree angle from the tornado, you will drive out of its range. Even a 3 mile wide F5 tornado at the speed Friday's tornado was moving, with all things being equal, you can easily get out of its way in 10 minutes.

Now, was that realistic in a heavily populated city? Probably not. Even outside of rush hour, I'd have to think you couldn't get away quickly enough as there would be too many other people trying to do the same thing. Another issue is tornado paths can be unpredictable. They usually move northeast, but they can move in any direction and can sometimes go more east than north or north than east, etc. Finally, many, if not most, people don't have a good enough sense of direction to be able to tell where a tornado is and which direction is 90 degrees from it. I know a lot of people in my own family who would unintentionally go directly into a tornado if being told it's heading east!

 

[ionosphere]

You do know F5 tornado damage wipes houses clean leaving only the foundation, right? An interior closet, bathtub, etc. in an F5 means almost certain death. Luckily maybe 1 in a thousand is an F5.

It was at least 10 minutes before the tornado was to strike El Reno that people were told to drive south if there was no underground option and they were in the tornado's path.

Moore could have been much worse if it happened when everyone was home. Lots people who were home drove away from the path.

I don't advocate jumping in the car but I look at it this way: it is much like a person pointing a gun at you in close range. You can stand there, duck, try talking or run for your life. None are good options but you might just get away if you run, although chances are slim. Staying was almost certain death in those folks minds so a run south in the car lowered the odds. I'm reminded of the lady in Nashville. Her neighborhood was flooded. Emergency services couldn't reach her. And her house was on fire. Her options, jump in raging flood waters and wash away or burn to death. Luckily she was saved by a neighbor maybe a minute or two before her house blew up. The choices weren't good.

I have to ponder if media didn't mention this what would the death toll look like? It might be more...maybe less, we'll never know. Certainly we must ask ourselves if we were on the air at this moment knowing somethat that freaked out even the weather experts was moving into that populated area, what would we have said? Would we have said to get to an interior room or bathtub if we felt they would almost certainly die? Would we have told people to drive south? Certainly people should have considered finding a safe place before anything bad happened but we tend to think it will never happen to us, that history will always repeat itself and we'll be okay, again.

From the sources I can find, 9 died in vehicles. Of those, 3 storm chasers, 2 members of a family driving west of I-40 and an oilfield worker on I-40. Two more men died in their vehicle in Union City (maybe they were escaping?). The 9th person I'm unsure of. And I must admit none of these seem to account for the woman and her infant sucked out of their car. There was also a report of a 4 year old with his family that sought shelter in a ditch being torn from the parents' arms as the tornado passed. It seems the family on I-40 where two died might have been the ones opting for the ditch but I cannot connect that. I had even read somewhere, some news story, all the in vehicle deaths were from driving into the tornado on I-40 or from flash flooding. In other words, the story indicated none of those who drove south died trying...maybe they did, maybe not.

The TV and radio, regardless, seemed to be spot on and certainly shined as tornadoes struck this weather weary part of the country again.

This was a truly freak tornado and of the sort chances are we will never see another of this width or intensity again in our lives.

I take great exception with your first sentence. The notion that an EF-5 means certain death is what causes panic like we saw Friday night. The problem is, it isn't true. Take Moore, for instance. That tornado went through a highly populated area of the city, from city limit to city limit. For most of it's life in Moore, it was EF-4/EF-5 strength...and it killed 24 people. Of those 24, 7 were children who died not by blunt force trauma or other injuries directly from the tornado, but by drowning after being trapped in their school. That leaves 17. By no means am I suggesting that is a low number. But when you consider that hundreds of homes were destroyed, that's a pretty low number. That tornado sure wiped out more than 17 homes. So, yes, you can survive an EF-5 in your home if you shelter in place properly. But I can promise you that if a EF-5 hits your vehicle as you are trying to escape your home, your chances of survival are microscopic. I always point to the F4 that destroyed a large portion of Wichita Falls, TX in 1979. That tornado killed 42 people...a staggering 25 died in their vehicles. Studies afterward showed that a majority of those vehicle deaths were people trying to escape the tornado. Even more shocking, the vast majority of those people left homes that sustained little or no tornado damage. On Friday night, TV meteorologist in OKC were encouraging people on the north side of the metro to head south. The storm took a right turn, and those folks were driving into the storm. The northern part of the city sustained virtually no storm damage.

Encouraging people to leave their homes in their vehicles to escape a tornado is an absolute recipe for disaster. If they decide to leave their homes, they need to do it well in advance...and I mean before a tornado warning is even issued.

 

[DG]

...An interior closet, bathtub, etc. in an F5 means almost certain death...

Wrong. An "F5" does NOT mean almost certain death. This right here is the issue and the problem.

You obviously didn't read the link I posted so here it is again:

Get as low as you can and put as many walls as you can between you and the tornado.

http://www.livingontherealworld.org/?p=899

The article is written by Dr. Harold Brooks from the NSSL in Norman. He points out, and I might add wrote this article before last Friday's storms, that many people survive F5-rated tornadoes by sheltering in place. He refutes many of your points with research and known facts from prior events.

Furthermore, the El Reno Tornado was classified as an EF3 based on the observed damage. It was reclassified as an EF5 after it was learned that a Doppler On Wheels measured winds in excess of 290 MPH.

So yes, it was VERY irresponsible for broadcast media to tell people to get in their cars and hope to flee, during PM rush hour, as it was getting dark, as a rain-wrapped tornado was already upon them.

 

[bturner]

How many people that tried to flee the storm were killed? I don't have that answer. I have seen news reports saying many of the deaths from those in vehicles happened as the drivers drove west on I-40 right into the tornado.

I need to read the link in the previous post. I haven't yet.

I watched for several minutes. I know he said if you can't get to a safe place then get out of the way; drive south, you have about 10 minutes before this tornado reaches El Reno. I do not know if he kept saying this. My thought is 10 minutes might have been enough time to get away from the danger. The to be expected right hand turn and rush hour traffic have to be figured in. I think, however, I personally would have tried for a police station or fire station. Why? I'd be surrounded by people best trained to deal with the situation.

An excellent point is the tornado was thought to be an EF3 at the time it was on the ground. An EF3 means a bathtub and mattress or an interior closet would be ample protection.

Please keep in mind that the intensity of a tornado is not uniform within the entire tornado. Only a small part of the wind field might have the maximum wind speed earning its rating. Intensity varies along its path. The Friday tornado seemed to be worst around the various vortexes within the parent tornado. That certainly gives credence to a bathtub or interior room being adequate but I have also seen bathtubs ripped from plumbing, wiped clean foundations and even grass sucked from the ground as well as pavement on highways. In those rare (or should I say extremely rare) instances nothing beats being underground.

So, now what? What can we suggest to resolve these 'problems' as tornadoes threaten. I would suspect many buildings might be desinated as 'safe shelter' locations, if not so already. Might the state look toward locating more of those places and build awareness? I'm sure something like this already exists in some form. Maybe the best thing is to let a bit of time go by before considering anything, allowing a more level headed response than one partly fueled by emotion. I remember seeing all those Fallout Shelter signs at many buildings growing up.

I think I can relate to what people felt last Friday. I was in Houston after Katrina when it appeared Hurricane Rita was poised to move over Houston. It seemed a much more intense hurricane than Katrina. Roads clogged. People ran out of gas. Convenience store ran out of food and water. People pushed their cars when they ran out of gas. Crimes happened. People died in confrontations. The heat took most lives. The total was about 600 dead. The hurricane gave Houston a glancing blow, targeting the Texas/Lousiana border. The reason for the problems was simple: the hurricane came about two weeks after Katrina and everyone paniced. Maybe, just maybe that is what happened last Friday in OKC.

Should KFOR seek a replacement, letting the man go?

 

[hello4]

If no advice had been given, people would be complaining about the deaths "caused" because people didn't flee. Everyone loves a scapegoat, and loves having someone to blame so they can take their rage out on something tangible rather than "nature". For instance, nobody told anybody to take cover in the drainage ditches, but some people will say it's the weathermen's fault for not pointing out the obvious reasons why the ditches exist. Should the man be let go? Hardly. That's like firing the clerk at Buy 4 Less because the MegaMillions she sold you didn't hit the jackpot.

 

[bturner]

I think Mike did what he felt was right at that moment. So many have seemed so upset with him I figured I would ask if he should be let go. If I was his boss I would shake his hand for the hard work and dedication and leave it at that.

There's the argument of facing a EF5 in a bathtub or interior room in lieu of trying to escape. While I agree that people do survive doing that, I have seen people get out with hardly a scratch and others with life threatening injuries. Sometimes they die. I saw the interview with the guy that left his house for his neighbor's storm shelter, the better option. He was happy he did. His bathtub didn't make it. If the commenters want to be truly honest, some will make it with hardly a scratch, some will be injured, some will die, all depending on the tornado. It's a toss of the dice. So is leaving in a car 10 minutes before it is supposed to hit you.

I like what John Cantore said: It's a good idea to know your neighbor and you might have a storm shelter a couple of doors away to go to just in case. And he implied it was something you should figure out on a sunny day, not when a tornado is bearing down on you.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

The real issue is that the community, collectively, has refused to prepare for storms properly by investing in shelters, either of their own, or at a civic level. EMs, rightfully so, are concerned about offering a large shelter people have to drive to because of traffic jam issues. So, basically, either people need to buy their own home shelters, or their city/county/ whatever government needs to have shelters, multiple of them, in neighborhoods that can be quickly got to when the warnings come. Another option of course is to build homes to the same wind specs that Bill Warren built his theater. NONE of these options are economically pleasant. So, since we are in the wild west here, we "wing it". Blaming a split decision of a weather guy isn't close to fair.

 

[GeneSavage]

If no advice had been given, people would be complaining about the deaths "caused" because people didn't flee.

I would not have been one of those people. I have NEVER seen a tornado kill people and said, "why didn't they tell them to run?" Not once... and never would.

Blaming a split decision of a weather guy isn't close to fair.

So he doesn't have to choose his words carefully to be operating in the public interest? So it is (I assume you meant) a "split-second decision" when he says it over and over over the course of 10 or 20 minutes?

Others are saying others were saying it, too. Were they all guilty of the same split-second wrong decision?

Saying the guy on air isn't responsible for giving accurate and reasonable information is like saying people shouldn't make sports stars their roll models. Maybe they shouldn't... but they DO.

If you have a conscience, you take your responsibility seriously. Otherwise, you have to admit you're just broadcasting to scare people and drive ratings points. If that's the case... well, I feel sorry for you.

I wouldn't fire him, but we would have had a LONG, one-sided "conversation" about what he was saying. It would be behind closed doors, but the entire staff would be able to hear me saying, "don't you EVER say that AGAIN EVER!!!"

The next time lives were threatened in our coverage area, if he even HINTED on the air that somebody ought to move from their present location, I'd yank him off the air and he'd collect his check.

You don't yell "fire" in a movie theater... and you don't tell people in a path of tornadoes to get out and drive.

 

[crainbebo]

OK - the anchors that said that "You need to get out and DRIVE AWAY from the tornado" should be FIRED!!! You do NOT tell anyone to leave their home during an EF-4 or 5 tornado, much LESS *DRIVE* away from it. That is DEATH or serious, critical injury. Good news is most people in Oklahoma have storm shelters.

Which anchor said this - someone at KFOR? I will never watch that station during a tornado. The anchors are as panicked as 6-year-old kids. "Worst tornado in the world" is an example. Look at the Xenia outbreak, and the 1925 Tri-State Tornado. THOSE were the worst.

rant finished...

-crainbebo

 

[jd]

Good news is most people in Oklahoma have storm shelters.

-crainbebo

Is that speculation on your part in the midst of your "rant"? I live in Texas and I can assure you that storm shelters in the Lone Star State are the exception and not the norm. But I have to ask, just out of curiosity, how many tornadoes occur yearly in your home state of Washington?

 

[crainbebo]

Oklahoma is tornado alley and I hear lots of mentions of storm shelters during news coverage. Aren't they building those shelters in the newest homes?

-crainbebo

 

[jd]

I'll yield to Oklahoma posters for further comments on that subject (although I'm a former resident of the state), but I will say that there is an effort to require storm shelters or "safe rooms" in all new residential construction. That's not a statewide thing, and might never be. So far as the percentage of Oklahoma homes that currently have storm shelters goes, it's reportedly in the single digits, the lower ones. Radio and TV people urging residents to go to their storm shelters realize they're speaking to a select few.

 

[bturner]

Wow, what emotions! Some very pasionate responses here.

Question: How many watched KFOR and drove away were injured, killed or even hit by the tornado? Before we convict, should we not have evidence? We know he said what he said. What were the results? We'll never have precise answers but knowing where deaths happened and how much worse the rush hour traffic was would offer clues. Anybody have found any of this info?

What fault should be given the general population for not knowing where to take shelter if they have none in their home? If I was in a home without a shelter, I'd try to know if my neighbor might and I'd try to determine how my home was constructed and what it might withstand. We tend to think, myself included, that it won't happen to me. Most of us get through life with 'it' never happening and we even blow it off when it happens to someone we know.

When I lived in Kansas City I recall a real estate agent saying you almost couldn't sell a home without a basement. The ground allowed for basements there, but that's not the case in the Oklahoma City area because of the ground composition. I would think 1/3rd or less of the homes have a storm shelter in any form. It is my understanding there is no requirement for a storm shelter in new homes. It is my understanding it is up to the owner to determine if they will and can afford to have one.

For those of you who have not lived in tornado alley at some point should realize tornadoes coming in all strengths and sizes. A tornado needs a wind speed of at least 40 miles per hour to qualify. Some tornadoes are only a few feet wide with an average having a wind speed of about 110 miles per hour and around 500 feet wide or less than the width of a football field. The El Reno tornado was sort of a 'family' of tornadoes to create a width of 2.6 miles and a wind speed determined to be as great as 295 miles per hour at parts. In other words, there was the parent tornado and several smaller tornadoes within it. It was these smaller tornadoes when combined with the parent tornado that created the 295 mile per hour wind speed. This makes it a 1 in 1,000 EF5 tornado and the widest ever recorded (the Hallam, Nebraska tornado was 2.5 miles wide). Destruction is determined by the way the structure was built (what it was designed to withstand) and the part of the tornado that struck the structure. About 1,200 tornadoes strike the USA annually. Based on the average tornado, about 600 square miles of the USA is struck by a tornado annually (1,200 tornadoes at an average width of 500 feet and a track of 5 miles). For example, Oklahoma alone is 69,900 square miles. Considering the fact tornadoes can occur in any state except perhaps Alaska, the chances, even in the heart of tornado alley, of being the target of a tornado is extremely slim. Certainly there are many things we face daily that are as, if not more dangerous to our continued survival than being struck by a tornado, although I think people in Moore might not agree.

 

[GeneSavage]

Question: How many watched KFOR and drove away were injured, killed or even hit by the tornado? Before we convict, should we not have evidence? We know he said what he said. What were the results?

I hardly know what to say in response to this.

It sounds to me like you're saying, "so I gave my child a loaded gun to play with; the important thing is, did he shoot himself or anybody else? If not, what's the big deal?"

Seriously.

What was said in the heat of this storm will be remembered in the next storm. Every storm the information is repeated reinforces the belief driving during a tornado warning is a good idea.

I'm not saying he deserves jail time; I'm questioning where his program director (and the PDs for any other broadcaster who gave similar advice) was.

Advising people to drive away from a tornado tells me the broadcaster has spent too much time in a studio and has forgotten how dangerous these storms really are.

Sadly, the death of multiple stormchasers MAY have been what it took to wake him up. If it did, that will be the only bit of good that came out of their tragic deaths.

 

[bturner]

This has nothing to do with a child and loaded gun, simply looking for facts. Of those injured and or killed, how many were the result of trying to flee the tornado? Of the various stories I have read, 9 perished in their vehicles or a result of being on the road. From what I have read the majority of those who were caught in their vehicles were driving toward the tornado on I-40....people who would have been on the road anyway.

Excellent point about the advice being remembered in the next threat. The Kansas news team that got under the freeway underpass a few years ago caused many to think it was a safe place.

Excellent point about where the PD was during all of this.

My best advice is know your neighborhhood and neighbors and have a plan. If your neighbor has a storm shelter, you might be able to go a door or two down if your home does not. Simply having a plan is crucial. Many won't but the more that do the better.

I did read of a lady who was injured after trying to escape the tornado by vehicle. She indicated she did so because of the Moore tornado destruction. She indicated hearing she needed to be underground was a motivator in jumping in the car. I also see where a party of 3 in a Ford F-150 was caught up in the tornado and walked away with only scratches but then again that story was centered on how well built the truck was.

I remember as a kid growing up in Kansas City seeing how heavy the traffic got when a tornado warning was issued. This was back in the late 1960s when there were Tornado Watches, Tornado Warnings (loosely defined as funnels were spotted) and Tornado Alerts (a tornado spotted on the ground in the general area). In my mind jumping in a car to outrun a tornado is what you do because it is the only option remaining.

At the very least, let's hope our coments lead to a better style of warning in the future. If anything, the deaths of storm chasers should tell us that even their experience was not enough to protect them. We have a good warning system in place so as life goes on amid tornado threats, at least a few seconds on serious threat days should be taken by families to remind their loved ones of what they need to do should the threat become reality for them.

 

[Jay Walker]

Since I've lived the majority of my life in the middle of tornado alley in each of the "Big Three" states, each with a history of record storms I feel compelled to jump into this topic.

Let me state the only reason I'm mentioning KFOR and their employee is because this was the station and name that made national and international news... I have never met, Mr. Morgan, nor have I viewed KFOR since the last time I lived in OKC in the early 1980's.

On the so-called evacuation notice that was allegedly propagated by KFOR-TV's Mike Morgan and possibly others. When I first heard the report of this "advice" being issued from a broadcast facility I assumed, incorrectly, that the person(s) giving this advice was a "rookie" transplant to the area. You could easily expect that kind of WRONG advice being given by someone with no experience with severe weather of this type.

When I read Mike Morgan's bio as posted on the KFOR.com website I was STUNNED to find out he was a quote "fourth generation Oklahoman" who grew up in the Tulsa area. Anyone who was born and raised in tornado alley KNOWS during a storm, you stay put and shelter as best as you can. This BASIC survival information is taught to you beginning in grade school. So I am at a complete loss on how to justify this deadly mistake.

On the subject of shelters/basements/safe rooms. The ONLY state in tornado alley I've had the pleasure of living that had basements was Kansas. In Oklahoma and Texas, the soil conditions are such that an under home, underground shelter is pretty close to impossible to construct. The exception being an old fashion root cellar located away from the home. With root cellars the issue is filling up with ground water as the water table in some parts of the area is less than 10 feet below average grade.

There are a lucky few who have a so called "Safe Room" in the home but with an installed construction cost north of $20K the average "Joe and Jane" can not afford a second mortgage to build it. Also "Safe Rooms" require special anchoring techniques to enable them to stay in one spot and not become a heavy rolling wind blown object.

And finally, for those who suggest people "move away" or "only a fool would live there" I'd like to respectfully remind them of in no particular order other places where "only a fool would live" such as, Earthquake country (the entire west coast) Hurricane country (anywhere near the east and gulf coast) and Blizzard country (plains, rocky mountain, and the Great Lakes states). People live in these places because that's where the jobs are.

 

[Kent]

Oklahoma is tornado alley and I hear lots of mentions of storm shelters during news coverage. Aren't they building those shelters in the newest homes?

As someone who grew up in Texas and Oklahoma, I can tell you there are very few storm shelters in Oklahoma. The land there tends to shift too much for basements and underground storm shelters, though I understand engineering advances and better materials have made basements and shelters more feasible in the Oklahoma soil than in the past, but there's still a cost issue. Also, a basement is often seen as a liability from prospective buyers' viewpoints because older basements often meant foundation problems, which were expensive to fix, years later.

Growing up, a friend of mine moved to Coweta, outside of Tulsa and in one of the warned areas a night or two before the OKC tornado hit. His house had a storm shelter, and the storm shelter floated up and away during a torrential rain storm! It was found in a neighbor's yard a block or down the hill from his house!

My mother's house in midtown Tulsa has a basement, and it's an exception to the rule. It's even a finished basement with a sump pump, which is extremely rare in Oklahoma. Of course, if the power goes out or the sump pump breaks, the basement floods in a hurry. I'm sure it cost a lot to put in when the house was built, and my parents paid less than $150,000 for it in 2000 despite it being a large house. The same house would run at least $2 million in California.

From what I was reading, at least one Oklahoma state representative wants to introduce a bill requiring all new schools to have a safe room or multiple safe rooms big enough to accommodate the entire faculty and student body, but Gov. Fallin has already pledged to veto it if it passes.

 

[GeneSavage]

At the very least, let's hope our comments lead to a better style of warning in the future.

Amen to that.

 

[kwhey]

Which anchor said this - someone at KFOR? I will never watch that station during a tornado.

Mike Morgan. The Chief Meteorologist of KFOR. But he will tell you he is your "lifeguard" in their severe weather promos.