The Big Switch

[jmtillery]

JMTillery or parttimer could answer this, who owns the better numbers? WFLF, WDBO, or WTKS
although TKS is FM what say you?

You had also asked about WFLF and I neglected to address 540. Again these are 12+ persons. WFLF is 15th overall with a 3.0. I'm not sure where WFLF stands in its target demo, but I am confident its 35, 45 and 55+ numbers are fairly decent.

 

[ThatGuyOnTheRadio]

This is a good post Mark, perhaps you should pose this question on your home board for Gainesville/Ocala as well.

 

[jmtillery]

This is a good post Mark, perhaps you should pose this question on your home board for Gainesville/Ocala as well.

I may take you up on your suggestion. I asked here on the Orlando board first because there are more options involving more stations theoretically resulting in more responses. I actually got the idea from the Los Angeles board where the same question was asked there a few days ago.

On a side note, someone on the New York board suggested NYC Metro is ready for another country station which has attracted some attention.

 

[davideduardo]

What do you think of another Spanish language format on commercial FM? It appears WNUE has the only Spanish format on that band as WRUM appears to have gone more Carribean. Are there any other formats Orlando is missing on either AM or FM? What are those formats?

WNUE is pop / AC, and WRUM is tropical / rhythmic.

The possible viable formats are:

Gold (70's and 80's pop and AC hits)
AC
Pop (somewhat of a CHR comparison)
rhythmic (meaning mostly reggaeton)
Tropical (with a different variety for each country of origin)

I don't see regional Mexican or its derivatives as viable, due to the small cume base for the music.

Right now, each station bridges two if not 3 formats.

As Spanish language stations in the diary depended on high TSL due to lower cume potential, the PPM results for WRUM and WNUE will decide if there is potential for another station. In the meantime, I'd be skeptical about the viability of a third station.

 

[davideduardo]

You had also asked about WFLF and I neglected to address 540. Again these are 12+ persons. WFLF is 15th overall with a 3.0. I'm not sure where WFLF stands in its target demo, but I am confident its 35, 45 and 55+ numbers are fairly decent.

Winter: 18th 25-54 and 12th 35-64.

 

[jmtillery]

You had also asked about WFLF and I neglected to address 540. Again these are 12+ persons. WFLF is 15th overall with a 3.0. I'm not sure where WFLF stands in its target demo, but I am confident its 35, 45 and 55+ numbers are fairly decent.

Winter: 18th 25-54 and 12th 35-64.

Thanks for the information, Dave. I would have thought 540 would have had a better showing in each of those demos, but obviously not.

 

[Stormychuck]

Wow, me too, I would have thought 540-WFLF would have placed better then that.

Ok explain this too me ya'll, what's the object of WFLF utilizing a Tampa stations call letter's WFLA in Orlando, other then their top hour ID, FLF and for the sake of sounding stupid, what am I missing here, I assume their same ownership, this is a must have on their have to have list?

FCC won't give-em a leg up and do a call letter swap?

 

[Stormychuck]

Wow, me too, I would have thought 540-WFLF would have placed better then that.

Ok explain this too me ya'll, what's the object of WFLF utilizing a Tampa stations call letter's WFLA in Orlando, other then their top hour ID, FLF and for the sake of sounding stupid, what am I missing here, I assume their same ownership, this is a must have on their have to have list?

FCC won't give-em a leg up and do a call letter swap?

 

[jmtillery]

Wow, me too, I would have thought 540-WFLF would have placed better then that.

Ok explain this too me ya'll, what's the object of WFLF utilizing a Tampa stations call letter's WFLA in Orlando, other then their top hour ID, FLF and for the sake of sounding stupid, what am I missing here, I assume their same ownership, this is a must have on their have to have list?

FCC won't give-em a leg up and do a call letter swap?

Clear Channel has been re-imaging its Florida News-Talk outlets as "FLA" to reflect the image as Florida's radio stations although only two Florida radio stations share the WFLA call sign - WFLA-AM 970 Tampa and WFLA-FM 100.7 Tallahassee. WFLF-FM 94.5 Panama City shares the WFLF-AM 540 call sign. All four stations are formatted as News-Talk and all four are owned by Clear Channel. And, since WFLA Tampa has had the WFLA call sign since it first began broadcast service, those call letters are heritage to Tampa Bay and Clear Channel wants to leave them in place on the original frequency.

In my opinion, I believe its a very good branding strategy for a station in Florida to be known as FLA.

 

[ThatGuyOnTheRadio]

What Mark said-- very good idea.

 

[jmtillery]

It's been a few days since any posts have been made here. So let's recap for a moment what we have discussed so far.

Some of you think a second country outlet will work fine in giving WWKA direct competition. Normally two stations in the same format war makes both stations much better because both stations are trying to outdo the other. In a situation such as this results in the big winners, or course, being the listeners and the advertisers. Everyone wins!

Parttimer thinks WHTQ is prime for a format change although no definitive alternative or replacement format was suggested as to what might work better on the 100,000 watt signal. Also, while Parttimer believes Real Radio is fine the way it is for now, Parttimer also believes a CCM format on commercial FM will fill a market void due to WPOZ's success and dominance in the CCM arena.

David Eduardo suggested a 70s' - 80s pop and A/C hits format as well as a tropical and a seperate Rhythmic CHR. David also offered his opinion regarding the new PPM and how it may alter the Orlando ratings landscape in the future.

Lastly many of us have referred to 12+ numbers to determine a station's position. As I have mentioned from the start, I believe we can all agree that 12+ only gives us a reference point in which to begin, but does not necessarily tell the whole story considering specific demos will show differently than 12+ will show. I'd like to thank David Eduardo for sharing the Adult 25- 54 numbers with us.

With that said, are there any other ideas, suggestions or comments anyone would like to make relating to this topic? Have we covered everything, or is there anything else viable that, so far, no one has mentioned?

Your thoughts, opinions and comments?

 

[Stormychuck]

JMTillery, We've yet to hear your suggestions views and ideas, I'd be interested, you have the pulse, let's hear from you. How would you bulldoze the Orlando market?

 

[jmtillery]

JMTillery, We've yet to hear your suggestions views and ideas, I'd be interested, you have the pulse, let's hear from you. How would you bulldoze the Orlando market?

I'm waiting for everyone else to give their opinions first before I chime-in with any ideas I may have due mainly because I don't want my opinion(s) to have any influence on what someone else may want to offer.

However, thank you for asking for my thoughts and comments.

 

[jmtillery]

Once again, I'd like to thank everyone who has participated in this informal discussion regarding Orlando radio. I thought I would give it a few more days before I commented any further, giving others an opportunity to share any other thoughts anyone else may have relating to this topic. It appears there are no more comments forthcoming, so, since I was asked to give my thoughts, I'll give them here in a basic outline. Part the outline will address specific scenarios while other parts will remain non-specific as not to give away “free” consulting services to those viewers who may happen to be Orlando radio decision makers.

Specifically, my first choice for a “makeover” is WHTQ. The station has long outlived its format, and has become stale and boring. I apologize to the program director, general manager or anyone else at WHTQ in advance. Note to WHTQ Program Director and or General Manager: Instead of becoming defensive and justifying the status quo, take a moment to sit back, take a deep breath and seriously consider what I'm suggesting. As I have said many times, something is what it is. And WHTQ, agree or not, is outdated and ready for a makeover. Because you may not agree doesn't change the fact that it is what it is.

As once suggested, I would place WPYO on the 96.5 frequency, but I would drop the “Power” moniker for several reasons. First and foremost, I don't like Power. Like WHTQ's need for a makeover, the term Power is old and and has lost its luster. Another reason for not using Power is because of Power 96 Miami on the same frequency programming essentially the same format. Using Power 96 in Orlando will sound like a cheap “rip-off” of WPOW Miami. The moniker I would use is freash, now, and compliments the present WPYO format, and NO ONE is using it. For this reason I'm keeping it to myself, however, I will be happy to discuss a consulting arrangment for WPYO if anyone with Cox Radio who can actually make a decision would like to contact me. NOTE TO COX RADIO: My direct number is (352) 425-3664. E-mail: [email protected].

Additionally, with the 100kw coast-to-coast 96.5 signal, the new WPYO would have an extra competitive advantage over WXXL. WPYO already has decent numbers on the smaller 25kw signal, and I have no doubts those numbers will greatly improve with a move to the bigger stick. Also, the WXXL – WPYO ratings war will make for greatly improved CHR radio in Central Florida.

Now, this brings us to the next question. What happens to the 95.3 signal? I'm happy you asked, and I have an answer. The 95.3 frequency, under my proposal, will become WDBO-FM, re-broadcasting WDBO-AM 100%. With the new WDBO on FM, this solves night-time coverage issues currently on WDBO-AM. It also brings FM quality to the news-talk format which will attract a new breed of younger listeners to WDBO. And because of the greatly improved news-talk delivery method, sales will increase dramitically as it will on the new WPYO. As a result, the loss of WHTQ revenues will more than make up for itself with the increased sales on the new WPYO and the new WDBO-FM.

Next, being non-specific, Orlando needs a second country outlet. Right now WWKA owns the country market and has no competition whatsoever for the country demo. The new country station will have a high energy CHR delivery complete with CHR style jingles. The station will cook with live/local jocks 24/7. I won't say which FM station I'd “blow up” to make room for the new country outlet, but I have one in mind.

Next, under my proposal, I will bring a second FM talker to the market, again, much like the new country outlet, this new FM talker will be local/live 24/7. I won't be any more specific than that as not to give away anything anyone can use other than a general concept. I also won't say which FM station will become the new FM talker, but I'll bet most anything it's one none of you would have even considered.

And that, my friends, is my general overview of "The World of Mark" and the current state of Orando radio as I see it and how it can be improved. I welcome your comments, suggestions and constructive criticisms.

 

[FrankF]

With reguards to WHTQ. In this day of monolopy radio. Does the PD of a particular radio station even have a say of what kind of music the station airs? I thought it was all controlled by where ever the coorporate headquaters are and the local P/D just carries out their orders. WHTQ is just a typical cookie cutter cox consultant controlled classic crock station ;D WMMO is even worse with their format.

 

[Parttimer]

As once suggested, I would place WPYO on the 96.5 frequency, but I would drop the “Power” moniker for several reasons. First and foremost, I don't like Power. Like WHTQ's need for a makeover, the term Power is old and and has lost its luster. Another reason for not using Power is because of Power 96 Miami on the same frequency programming essentially the same format. Using Power 96 in Orlando will sound like a cheap “rip-off” of WPOW Miami. The moniker I would use is freash, now, and compliments the present WPYO format, and NO ONE is using it. For this reason I'm keeping it to myself, however, I will be happy to discuss a consulting arrangment for WPYO if anyone with Cox Radio who can actually make a decision would like to contact me. NOTE TO COX RADIO: My direct number is (352) 425-3664. E-mail: [email protected].

Additionally, with the 100kw coast-to-coast 96.5 signal, the new WPYO would have an extra competitive advantage over WXXL. WPYO already has decent numbers on the smaller 25kw signal, and I have no doubts those numbers will greatly improve with a move to the bigger stick. Also, the WXXL – WPYO ratings war will make for greatly improved CHR radio in Central Florida.

Now, this brings us to the next question. What happens to the 95.3 signal? I'm happy you asked, and I have an answer. The 95.3 frequency, under my proposal, will become WDBO-FM, re-broadcasting WDBO-AM 100%. With the new WDBO on FM, this solves night-time coverage issues currently on WDBO-AM. It also brings FM quality to the news-talk format which will attract a new breed of younger listeners to WDBO. And because of the greatly improved news-talk delivery method, sales will increase dramitically as it will on the new WPYO. As a result, the loss of WHTQ revenues will more than make up for itself with the increased sales on the new WPYO and the new WDBO-FM.

Disagree 100%.

Cox calls WPYO Power because they also own Power 96 in South Florida. They want listeners to make that connection.

If you blow up WHTQ in favor of moving Power to 96.5 and WDBO to 95.3 , you lose the only younger non-minority male demos the cluster really has.

If you move WDBO to FM as a simulcast, you might not bring in ANY new revenue to speak of, you basically lose a station from the cluster. You have one less format to sell. And if you move DBO the replacement on AM would likely bring in less than HTQ does now, so a net loss. If night reception is the issue I doubt they'd see that as a reason to move it.

Next, being non-specific, Orlando needs a second country outlet. Right now WWKA owns the country market and has no competition whatsoever for the country demo. The new country station will have a high energy CHR delivery complete with CHR style jingles. The station will cook with live/local jocks 24/7. I won't say which FM station I'd “blow up” to make room for the new country outlet, but I have one in mind.

Sunny 105.9

Next, under my proposal, I will bring a second FM talker to the market, again, much like the new country outlet, this new FM talker will be local/live 24/7. I won't be any more specific than that as not to give away anything anyone can use other than a general concept. I also won't say which FM station will become the new FM talker, but I'll bet most anything it's one none of you would have even considered.

Don't say WLOQ. Gross would never spend the money to do talk.

Don't say WJRR. Again, male 18-34 demos and Clear Channel already has 2 talk stations. And don't make JRR the second country station either. Remember the average age of this market still skews young.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[jmtillery]

Sorry, parttimer, but Cox DOES NOT own Power 96 Miami. WPOW is owned by Beasley (www.bbgi.com - click on "Station Call Letters" located on the upper right hand corner of the home page. In the drop down box, look for WPOW and click it and you will see WPOW Power 96 is a Beasley station, not Cox). Cox does own the former WPYM Party 93.1, now WHDR. As for the country and talk outlets, the ones you suggest may be viable frequencies for the respective country and talk formats, but those are not necessarily the ones I have in mind.

As for losing the only non-minority demo in the cluster, Cox still has WMMO and WWKA. I'd leave WJRR alone as it is fine "as is".

Bringing WDBO to FM will skew younger for that format, hence the main reason for adding 95.3 in simulcast. Younger demos listen to FM - PERIOD.

Dropping Power and adding a more "hip" moniker (and I have one no one is using) for the current CHR/hip hop format will enhance an already good product. WPYO is already neck-and-neck with WXXL. On the 100kw stick, I have no doubts WPYO will surpass XL.

 

[jmtillery]

If you blow up WHTQ in favor of moving Power to 96.5 and WDBO to 95.3 , you lose the only younger non-minority male demos the cluster really has.

Just my 2 cents...

How do you figure Cox is losing the only younger non-minority male demo by blowing up WHTQ, when The Classic Rock Station is Classic Rock? Classic Rock targets, depending on the decade span, an older male demo generally 35 - 54, not a younger demo. With "Power" on 96.5, Cox will have Orlando's third ranked format attracting persons 18 - 34 and 18 - 49 demo as opposed to attracting males 35 - 54, and 35 - 64 on the market's current 17th ranked station. For the most part, the non-minority males are well covered on Cox owned WWKA.

Not that WLOQ is one of my choices for any changes, but how do you know Gross would not go for a change if it meant better ratings and greater cash flow? I can't tell you how many times I've been told "No, it will never happen" by a third party, only to discover I get a "yes" because I took the time to ask the right questons and present a viable solution to an existing problem.

In all fairness, WLOQ is not my choice for a talk format. I have another station in mind

As for country, Sunny 105.9 has the signal, but, again, there may be another signal I am referring for the new country station.

 

[davideduardo]

Cox calls WPYO Power because they also own Power 96 in South Florida. They want listeners to make that connection.

If you blow up WHTQ in favor of moving Power to 96.5 and WDBO to 95.3 , you lose the only younger non-minority male demos the cluster really has.

While already mentioned, Cox does not nor has ever owned Power in Miami.

And I can confirm the fact that WHTQ is a much better performer in 35-54 than 25-34. It's "classic" rock, not alternative.

In any case, stations (but not the media and advertisers) will see the first PPM book for Orlando in the middle of next month and nobody would make a format change now based on the dairy survey. We might even see changes prior to the full release (currency status) for the September book... as stations will have two full books ahead of that.

 

[jmtillery]

Cox calls WPYO Power because they also own Power 96 in South Florida. They want listeners to make that connection.

If you blow up WHTQ in favor of moving Power to 96.5 and WDBO to 95.3 , you lose the only younger non-minority male demos the cluster really has.

While already mentioned, Cox does not nor has ever owned Power in Miami.

And I can confirm the fact that WHTQ is a much better performer in 35-54 than 25-34. It's "classic" rock, not alternative.

In any case, stations (but not the media and advertisers) will see the first PPM book for Orlando in the middle of next month and nobody would make a format change now based on the dairy survey. We might even see changes prior to the full release (currency status) for the September book... as stations will have two full books ahead of that.

Exactly. And, keep in mind this little exercise was for illustrative purposes. Some of what has been discussed may come to fruition. However, if none of it materializes, we at least had fun in the process of discussing "what if?". I believe PPM will give all of us a much more accurate represenation of the current state of Orlando radio as well as radio in all PPM markets.