The buffoonery at KABC continues

[Thomps2525]

Michael, when I read that article, two things struck me---and no, one of them was not a baseball bat. McLendon admitted that the all-ads format "hasn't got a chance" but he installed it anyway. Why? And the FCC licensed KADS for a "one-year trial period." The FCC at that time was trying to "curb excessive commercialization" but did the FCC have the right to restrict or regulate phoned-in messages from listeners, messages which could technically be considered advertising but which were broadcast free of charge? Those messages from the public would certainly fulfill the station's requirement to broadcast " in the public interest," wouldn't they? And what was the FCC expecting to see during that "trial period"?

 

[radio-darn]

Michael, when I read that article, two things struck me---and no, one of them was not a baseball bat. McLendon admitted that the all-ads format "hasn't got a chance" but he installed it anyway.

What struck me was how McLendon said it failed because he was just not able to spend enough time at the station and was spread too thin. That sounds like a boss who did not know how or want to delegate and/or communicate with his managers, the kind of boss who thinks he's got to micro-manage everything because no one else is smart enough to undertsand and execute his vision.

 

[michael hagerty]

Michael, when I read that article, two things struck me---and no, one of them was not a baseball bat. McLendon admitted that the all-ads format "hasn't got a chance" but he installed it anyway. Why? And the FCC licensed KADS for a "one-year trial period." The FCC at that time was trying to "curb excessive commercialization" but did the FCC have the right to restrict or regulate phoned-in messages from listeners, messages which could technically be considered advertising but which were broadcast free of charge? Those messages from the public would certainly fulfill the station's requirement to broadcast " in the public interest," wouldn't they? And what was the FCC expecting to see during that "trial period"?

What McLendon was trying was a big version of a staple of small-town radio...the personal want-ads or "swap shop". Usually a segment that ran 30 or 60 minutes a day, where people could call up and advertise stuff they had to sell or trade or were looking to buy for free rather than paying the local newspaper.

We had it at KIBS in Bishop, and KFWB had a similar segment (though theirs was 60 seconds) called "Purely Personal" that featured one such ad per segment. It ran from 1959-62, was hosted by Lenore Kingston and was sponsored by Boys Markets.

You can look at it two ways, I suppose: Providing people a service that they can use to raise money without charging them anything while newspapers would charge them is providing a unique public service. If it had worked, McLendon would have hit on a format that, once established, would have had relatively low cost...the forerunner of today's user-generated content. It's every radio GM's dream...zero overhead and big ad billings (from the truly commercial accounts that were intended to support KADS).

 

[davideduardo]

What struck me was how McLendon said it failed because he was just not able to spend enough time at the station and was spread too thin. That sounds like a boss who did not know how or want to delegate and/or communicate with his managers, the kind of boss who thinks he's got to micro-manage everything because no one else is smart enough to undertsand and execute his vision.

I think McLendon was issuing a mea culpa for not being present to give the additional support, moral and financial, to the project. McLendon was known to be demanding, but also very supportive of talent.

 

[Thomps2525]

Michael and/or David might be able to answer these questions: When KADS aired paid advertising, how long were the commercial breaks? I'm guessing only 60 or 90 seconds at a time. When people sold things via a message on KADS, were they required to report the sale price as income and then pay taxes on it? And did KADS ever manage to show up in the Arbitrons?

Michael mentioned the "Purely Personal" segments that ran on KFWB. During its so-called "glory years" (1958-63), the station also broadcast high-school sports scores and reports of stolen cars. There was a time in the 1970s when KUTY in Palmdale even announced missing pets!

 

[davideduardo]

And did KADS ever manage to show up in the Arbitrons?

I'm not sure when Arbitron started up in LA; the first book was in '65 in Detroit.

But you raise an interesting question of which, if any, of the LA FM's showed in Hooper or Pulse in '66?

 

[davideduardo]

Michael mentioned the "Purely Personal" segments that ran on KFWB. During its so-called "glory years" (1958-63), the station also broadcast high-school sports scores and reports of stolen cars. There was a time in the 1970s when KUTY in Palmdale even announced missing pets!

In the 1996 to 1998 period, KTNQ (which was in the top 10 12+ on a number of occasions) had a swap shop show in the LA market! It was on from 5 to 7 AM on Saturdays, and was called "Chistes y Chácharas" which meant, roughly, "Jokes and Junk". Listeners called and had to tell a joke, and if they did, they could advertise things they had for sale up to a $2000 asking price. There was one call after every song. The show was, for a while, something like 3rd in the market in those two hours. After a while, it kind of faded, and was replaced.

 

[radio-darn]

We had one these on-air classifieds when i was a small station in rural Montana 40 years ago. 30 years ago KSDO in San Diego had it's weekend morning version, described by San Diego Magazine in retrospect:

"KSDO radio's "tradio" segment was the craigslist of it's day, offering free airtime on weekends to any local residents trying to sell their stuff."

 

[michael hagerty]

Michael and/or David might be able to answer these questions: When KADS aired paid advertising, how long were the commercial breaks? I'm guessing only 60 or 90 seconds at a time. When people sold things via a message on KADS, were they required to report the sale price as income and then pay taxes on it? And did KADS ever manage to show up in the Arbitrons?

Michael mentioned the "Purely Personal" segments that ran on KFWB. During its so-called "glory years" (1958-63), the station also broadcast high-school sports scores and reports of stolen cars. There was a time in the 1970s when KUTY in Palmdale even announced missing pets!

I'm guessing the breaks were standard length for the time...60 to 120 seconds.

Whether people who sold stuff had to report it as income, that's a question for a tax attorney. Let's say it was a bike your kids had outgrown. If you sold it to a neighbor, would you be required to report the proceeds as income? And would you have under 1966 tax law?

Finally, no Arbitron in L.A. at that time...just Pulse and Hooper. I haven't seen Hooper, but I happen to have Pulse. It's the earliest Los Angeles ratings book I've seen:

Pulse November/December 1966 Total Audience Share

1. KHJ (Top 40) 9.0
1. KMPC (MOR) 9.0
1. KLAC (Talk) 9.0
4. KFI (MOR) 7.0
4. KPOL (Beautiful) 7.0
4. KRLA (Top 40) 7.0
7. KABC (Talk) 4.0
7. KFAC (Classical) 4.0
7. KFWB (Top 40) 4.0
7. KNX (MOR) 4.0
7. XETRA (News) 4.0
12. KGFJ (R&B) 3.0
12. KWIZ (All-request) 3.0
12. KWKW (Spanish) 3.0
15. KFOX (Country) 2.0
15. KGBS (Country) 2.0
15. KGIL (MOR) 2.0
18. KALI (Spanish) 1.0
18. KBBI-FM (Religious) (107.5 FM...later KLVE) 1.0
18. KBIG-AM (Beautiful Music) 1.0
18. KBLA (Top 40) 1.0
18. KBMS (Beautiful Music) (105.9...later KWST) 1.0
18. KGER (Religious) 1.0
18. KHJ-FM (Top 40-simulcast) 1.0
18. KUTE-FM (Beautiful Music) 1.0
18. KWIZ-FM (All-Request-simulcast) 1.0
18. KWOW (Oldies) 1.0



While KADS didn't show in late '66, its replacement, KOST, did in late '67, with a 1.0...tied with KFAC-FM and KUTE-FM for 19th. No other FM did better. And in Fall '68, KOST was the #1 FM in Los Angeles with a 3.0 and tied for 12th overall.

 

[Thomps2525]

Wow, that was a fun list to see! Thanks, Michael! Three different were formats tied for first. In late 1966 KHJ had Don Steele, Robert W. Morgan, Sam Riddle, Frank Terry, Gary Mack, Johnny Mitchell and Johnny Williams. KMPC had Dick Whittinghill, Johnny Magnus, Gary Owens, Ira Cook, Roger Carroll, Pete Smith, Bob Arbogast and Paul Compton. The only 1966 KLAC host I remember is Joe Pyne and I believe his program was syndicated. In the late '60s did KLAC completely drop talk for MOR or was there a time when the station was talk for part of the day and MOR for part of the day?

It seems as though we don't have much more to say about this thread's original subject, KABC.

 

[michael hagerty]

Wow, that was a fun list to see! Thanks, Michael! Three different were formats tied for first. In late 1966 KHJ had Don Steele, Robert W. Morgan, Sam Riddle, Frank Terry, Gary Mack, Johnny Mitchell and Johnny Williams. KMPC had Dick Whittinghill, Johnny Magnus, Gary Owens, Ira Cook, Roger Carroll, Pete Smith, Bob Arbogast and Paul Compton. The only 1966 KLAC host I remember is Joe Pyne and I believe his program was syndicated. In the late '60s did KLAC completely drop talk for MOR or was there a time when the station was talk for part of the day and MOR for part of the day?

It seems as though we don't have much more to say about this thread's original subject, KABC.

Lohman and Barkley were also at KLAC in 1966. They'd been there since '63 and stayed until early '67, doing both music and (after the format change) talk.

KLAC dropped talk in 1969 and went full-time MOR. The numbers were grim and they flipped to Country in 1971.

 

[michael hagerty]

Correction: September 28, 1970 was the date KLAC went Country.

Oh. And Les Crane was at KLAC along with Joe Pyne and L&B.

 

[radio-darn]

It seems as though we don't have much more to say about this thread's original subject, KABC.

The talk has drifted off into history because that's what they are.

I do have to say though the most thrilling two weeks of my radio career were when I did vacation fill-in at KABC in 1980 - one week writing for Ken and Bob (two news people worked all night preparing news packages for their morning show) and one week anchoring the evening news until midnight or so. I know the morning show was #1 at the time and I seem to recall the whole station was number one. For a kid who'd started in radio in Montana, it was a real hoot to be on the air at a top LA station. I'd been full time at KHJ during its waning days of Top 40 (the Rick Dees era), but by then KABC was leagues ahead of KHJ.

Considering there are only three AM stations in the top 25 6+ stations in LA (and only one in the top 10) you have to wonder if KABC is suffering the inevitable and if anyone can save it?

 

[michael hagerty]

It seems as though we don't have much more to say about this thread's original subject, KABC.

The talk has drifted off into history because that's what they are.

I do have to say though the most thrilling two weeks of my radio career were when I did vacation fill-in at KABC in 1980 - one week writing for Ken and Bob (two news people worked all night preparing news packages for their morning show) and one week anchoring the evening news until midnight or so. I know the morning show was #1 at the time and I seem to recall the whole station was number one. For a kid who'd started in radio in Montana, it was a real hoot to be on the air at a top LA station. I'd been full time at KHJ during its waning days of Top 40 (the Rick Dees era), but by then KABC was leagues ahead of KHJ.

Considering there are only three AM stations in the top 25 6+ stations in LA (and only one in the top 10) you have to wonder if KABC is suffering the inevitable and if anyone can save it?

KABC was indeed number one when you were there.

Now? The signal simply can't get the job done. The physical market has grown, the noise floor has shrunk the listenable signal and only 27% of L.A. is Anglo. Even if KABC was doing everything right, I don't think you could get a 2 share with it.

 

[Thomps2525]

I went through my archives---which are probably more accurately known as "boxes of junk"---and I found the Los Angeles Arbitron ratings for summer of 1984. Stations that were part of a two- or three-way tie are listed alphabetically:

1 - KIIS, 10.0
2 - KABC, 7.9
3 - KJOI, 4.4
4 - KBIG, 4.1
5 - KLOS, 3.5
6 - KMPC, 3.4
7 - KOST, 3.4
8 - KTNQ, 3.2
9 - KMET, 3.1
10 - KKHR, 3.0
11 - KFWB, 2.9
12 - KNX, 2.9
13 - KRTH, 2.9
14 - KROQ, 2.8
15 - KMGG, 2.4
16 - KIQQ, 2.4
17 - KJLH, 2.0
18 - KZLA, 2.0
19 - KLAC, 1.9
20 - KFI, 1.8
21 - KALI, 1.7
22 - KHTZ, 1.7
23 - KPRZ, 1.7
24 - KDAY, 1.6
25 - KNOB, 1.6
26 - KRLA, 1.6

 

[davideduardo]

I went through my archives---which are probably more accurately known as "boxes of junk"---and I found the Los Angeles Arbitron ratings for summer of 1984. Stations that were part of a two- or three-way tie are listed alphabetically:

If you want to see the Arbitron ratings for LA and every other rated market from the mid-70's to the early 2000's, check out the Duncan's American Radio editions at

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Duncan-American-Radio-Issue-Guide.htm

 

[Nate Wesley]

And don't forget "I have a question" and "I have a couple of points that I want to make." Nobody needs to say those things---just ask your fershlugginer question and make your fershlugginer points!

Those are pauses/delays to collect thoughts, and there are seasoned broadcasters who do the same thing (albeit subtly). Nitpicker.

 

[michael hagerty]

I went through my archives---which are probably more accurately known as "boxes of junk"---and I found the Los Angeles Arbitron ratings for summer of 1984. Stations that were part of a two- or three-way tie are listed alphabetically:

1 - KIIS, 10.0
2 - KABC, 7.9
3 - KJOI, 4.4
4 - KBIG, 4.1
5 - KLOS, 3.5
6 - KMPC, 3.4
7 - KOST, 3.4
8 - KTNQ, 3.2
9 - KMET, 3.1
10 - KKHR, 3.0
11 - KFWB, 2.9
12 - KNX, 2.9
13 - KRTH, 2.9
14 - KROQ, 2.8
15 - KMGG, 2.4
16 - KIQQ, 2.4
17 - KJLH, 2.0
18 - KZLA, 2.0
19 - KLAC, 1.9
20 - KFI, 1.8
21 - KALI, 1.7
22 - KHTZ, 1.7
23 - KPRZ, 1.7
24 - KDAY, 1.6
25 - KNOB, 1.6
26 - KRLA, 1.6

And there, 29 years ago, are the answers to so many questions about radio today.

Even then, only 3 AMs could make the Top 10. Two of them were 50,000 watts. None of them had FM competition. None of them were trying to play music to 18-49 year olds. Those that were came in #19 or lower.

The other Top 10s? One played the hits, only the hits and gave away a Porsche 944 with $25,000 in the glovebox every Friday. Five shut up and played music. And #10 played the hits and only the hits but didn't give away Porsches with cash in the glovebox.

A year shy of 30...and the rules weren't all that different.

 

[radio-darn]

I went through my archives---which are probably more accurately known as "boxes of junk"---and I found the Los Angeles Arbitron ratings for summer of 1984. Stations that were part of a two- or three-way tie are listed alphabetically:

If you want to see the Arbitron ratings for LA and every other rated market from the mid-70's to the early 2000's, check out the Duncan's American Radio editions at

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Duncan-American-Radio-Issue-Guide.htm

Thanks for that link. In the Spring 1980 book KABC was number 1 12+ and five of the top 10 stations were AM's

 

[hm insulators]

I
Does anyone here remember KADS? In 1966 Gordon McLendon bought KGLA-103.5 and installed an all-advertising format. Along with the paid advertising, listeners called in to talk about things they wanted to sell or buy. The format lasted only a few months before the station became adult contemporary KOST. I wonder how KABC would do with an all-ads format. And if Clara from North Hollywood is able to sell her refrigerator for $75, she'll tell all her friends to listen to KABC and the ratings will start climbing.

I do remember K-ADS and it was fascinating listening....for about 15 or 20 minutes. I was surprised that it lasted as long as it did.

I'm far too young to remember K-ADS (I was born in 1961) but just reading about it here, my reaction was "Could they have come up with anything dumber-sounding?" I've heard "Swap-n-Shop"-type shows driving around in rural areas which are entertaining to listen to ("Yeah, I got some Knott's Berry Farm salt and pepper shakers for sale and I would like to buy a 1976 Pacer"), and those run for a half hour or an hour, but a constant stream of that 24/7? ???

No wonder they became KOST.