The Day The Oldies Died

[davideduardo]

Old people have more money than young people because old people don't frivolously spend money. So it's not the size of the bank account, it's the size of the credit card charges that lure advertisers.

The solution is for the FCC to return to its original reason for being. It had an order from Congress when it was established: Paraphrased, "Stations are to operate in the public's interest, convenience and necessity." The idea was that since the airwaves belong to us all, there has to be programming for us all. Therefore, the FCC wouldn't allow a market of, say, 5 stations to all be programming Christian music or continuous talk.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

"Oldies" stations are not doing fine. "Classic Hits" stations are. Oldies is defined as 60's based pop hits, while Classic Hits defines a 70's based format.

KRTH -- I was just in LA. It played mostly 60's with some 70's thrown in. check the ratings. Oldies can rate well, if it is done well by local DJ's that have some personality.

I was suggesting people tune in rim-shots as a protest. Drive the new Eagle into the ground compared with its previous format. If over the air radio refuses to provide what people want, the WILL find alternatives, because the CAN. Tell all the oldies fans their format is obsolete, like themselves, they WILL listen to CD's, iPods, satellite, and streaming. And radio wonders why the audience is diminishing - why don't they figure out how many people they have PO'd by format changes to some cookie cutter voice tracked inexpensive format that a lame focus group says will rate well. Don't bother talking to listeners - just automate radio all over the country to one of a dozen "researched" formats and see how many people still listen.

 

[Silkie]

"Oldies" stations are not doing fine. "Classic Hits" stations are. Oldies is defined as 60's based pop hits, while Classic Hits defines a 70's based format.

KRTH -- I was just in LA. It played mostly 60's with some 70's thrown in. check the ratings. Oldies can rate well, if it is done well by local DJ's that have some personality.

Oldies rate well; "personalities" with an agenda, who can't tend their business, but worry about somebody else's business the industry can do without. But alas, we are stuck with such types because they are cheap help, but have neither an ear for music nor the ability to arrange it, because they are not oldies people.

 

[davideduardo]

KRTH -- I was just in LA. It played mostly 60's with some 70's thrown in. check the ratings. Oldies can rate well, if it is done well by local DJ's that have some personality.

80% of the songs, excluding overnights and specialty shows, on KRTH are 1968 and later, the definition of "Classic Hits." MediaBase, which goes by playlist analysis, calls them Classic Hits, as does the station itself.

Tell all the oldies fans their format is obsolete, like themselves, they WILL listen to CD's, iPods, satellite, and streaming.

That's a good use for those devices, as commerical radio can not do a format that is all senior demos, as there is no ad market for it.

 

[davideduardo]

Oldies rate well;

No, they don't... in the ages advertisers have any interest in reaching.

But alas, we are stuck with such types because they are cheap help, but have neither an ear for music nor the ability to arrange it, because they are not oldies people.

"Personalities" neither select the music nor do they "arrange" it. The listners select the music, and the Program Director schedules it.

 

[Silkie]

Oldies rate well;

No, they don't... in the ages advertisers have any interest in reaching.

Well, the oldies station I listen to has plenty of great advertisers, even for the <cough> blue hairs like myself.

"Personalities" neither select the music nor do they "arrange" it. The listners select the music, and the Program Director schedules it.

Baloney.

 

[johndavis]

"Personalities" neither select the music nor do they "arrange" it. The listners select the music, and the Program Director schedules it.

Baloney.

Barney Frank's recent quote about arguing with a dining room table applies to this thread nicely.

 

[CaptMarvel]

You might want to give Pandora Radio a try...
http://www.pandora.com/

 

[davideduardo]

Well, the oldies station I listen to has plenty of great advertisers, even for the <cough> blue hairs like myself.

Depends... if it is classic hits, it's probably doing well. If it is oldies, not likely. Having lots of spots is meaninless... it is all about how much they charge for the spots.

[quote]"Personalities" neither select the music nor do they "arrange" it. The listners select the music, and the Program Director schedules it

Baloney.

Stations do a music log, usually prepared by the PD using Selector or MusicMaster, and in the majority of stations and companies, messing with the song order or adding songs gets you fired.

And the songs are selected by the audience via music testing in all but the smaller markets.

 

[aunti-terrestrial]

You might want to give Pandora Radio a try...
http://www.pandora.com/

Also, try Live365.com.
http://www.live365.com

 

[johndavis]

On the topic of Oldies...

Citadel just blew up True Oldies in Washington DC, segging from The Association's "Windy" to Aerosmith's "Living On The Edge"

The station is now classic hits with a harder rock and alternative lean, according to DCRTV. It's going up against CC's WBIG (which is also an oldies station that morphed into a classic hits station).

 

[gdbroadcaster]

www.backyardradio.com

 

[PapillionWyngs]

All the sales gurus tell us that nobody buys 45-54, 45-64, but it's just a matter of time before somebody wakes up and smells the coffee.

Nobody buys 55+ at the agency level. 45-54 is inside the 18-54 area that is well desired by agency accounts.
[/quote]

Ok - if the 45-54 is desired, then why are they TAKING OUR MUSIC AWAY???

 

[johndavis]

All the sales gurus tell us that nobody buys 45-54, 45-64, but it's just a matter of time before somebody wakes up and smells the coffee.

Nobody buys 55+ at the agency level. 45-54 is inside the 18-54 area that is well desired by agency accounts.

Ok - if the 45-54 is desired, then why are they TAKING OUR MUSIC AWAY???
[/quote]

I realize that this is futile, but again, you will find the former KLDE music library (which came from KONO anyway) still on the air in Houston, 24/7, at 107.5 HD-2. Go to Best Buy and buy yourself a HD radio, and boom! You'll have your oldies in the at work, at home, and in the car. As of this writing, they're playing the Supremes.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I realize that this is futile, but again, you will find the former KLDE music library (which came from KONO anyway) still on the air in Houston, 24/7, at 107.5 HD-2. Go to Best Buy and buy yourself a HD radio, and boom! You'll have your oldies in the at work, at home, and in the car. As of this writing, they're playing the Supremes.

KONO 860 comes in fairly well in my car. I am far enough away from that garbage on 850 that I have a shot at it.

HD-2 is where stations put former formats to die, because so few people have HD radios.

You can't put an aftermarket HD radio in most cars, because the radio is so integrated with the car electronics. I do, however, have satellite and soon - streaming through my phone into an auxiliary unit. There are hundreds of oldies streams on the internet.

 

[davideduardo]

There are hundreds of oldies streams on the internet.

And that's a perfect place for formats whose demos are not salable to advertisers with terrestrial radio.

Satellite is an alternative, but the cost and inconvenience of most installs only being in the car is an issue; apparently over a half-million subscribers have cancelled in the first half of the year... and many more have been lured to stay with free months or a cut rate fee.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

There are hundreds of oldies streams on the internet.

And that's a perfect place for formats whose demos are not salable to advertisers with terrestrial radio.

Satellite is an alternative, but the cost and inconvenience of most installs only being in the car is an issue; apparently over a half-million subscribers have cancelled in the first half of the year... and many more have been lured to stay with free months or a cut rate fee.

Actually, I think I'm going to do the iPhone / streaming application thing. I already have an auxiliary input for satellite - why not dump the satellite myself in favor of streaming?! I get exactly what I want, screw terrestrial radio (well, not really, my preferred formats sell in other markets - like KRTH). Screw LOCAL terrestrial radio I should say. I think this could be an ideal solution for the audience you are most concerned about - the Spanish language audience that has so many formats. They could also find anything they want.

What is going to be really interesting is the radio market in ten years when - freed from geographical restrictions - a very large number of people will stream everywhere. Some niche format on some station in a small town somewhere might just find itself with tremendous ratings - if the ratings services follow the trend, those formerly marginal operations might end up very profitable! I am wondering if all the cookie cutter versions of formats - all the Kiss FMs, for example, might be submarined by the real thing in Los Angeles, etc. Certainly it will take some time for the winners in the streaming ratings contest to emerge, but I bet it is the ones with live DJ's, really high energy, creative, and fun formats will probably succeed and the others fail.

I've already seen a version of this happen in my old home town of Midland. The local top-40 - KCRS - decided to censor the music and not play certain songs they deemed too controversial. It wasn't long before the nighttime signal of KOMA in Oklahoma City garnered a very large following in Midland. I even converted some of the KOMA fans to WLS fans, although the signal from WLS, although strong, was not as good as KOMA. Of course daytime was still the pits, but there was a top-40 in Lubbock that was making inroads into Midland.

The point? Listeners go where the music is - provided it is not too much trouble. Everybody has a cell phone, and the iPhone and similar internet enabled phones are starting to displace basic models. There is only a small step needed to get them to stream, and of course the internet needs to be flat rate or one month's worth of streaming would be prohibitive. Add to that a lot of people already using iPods as their primary music source. Auxiliary jacks are in a lot of cars. The technology is there, a little bit of streamlining and its all over for local radio's monopoly. And that, I think, is a good thing.

 

[davideduardo]

I get exactly what I want, screw terrestrial radio (well, not really, my preferred formats sell in other markets - like KRTH).

KRTH is not an oldies station... it is 70's and even 80's classic hits.

The point? Listeners go where the music is - provided it is not too much trouble. Everybody has a cell phone, and the iPhone and similar internet enabled phones are starting to displace basic models. There is only a small step needed to get them to stream, and of course the internet needs to be flat rate or one month's worth of streaming would be prohibitive.

It would also help if they did not drop out all over the place. There is no drive I make, even short ones, where the cellular connection does not drop at least once.... and that is 20 years into cellular phones in LA.

Add to that a lot of people already using iPods as their primary music source. Auxiliary jacks are in a lot of cars. The technology is there, a little bit of streamlining and its all over for local radio's monopoly. And that, I think, is a good thing.

The average car in America is now 9 years old. It will take two decades to replace them all at the current rate, even if 100% of new cars have them...

 

[cyberdad]

 
It would also help if they did not drop out all over the place. There is no drive I make, even short ones, where the cellular connection does not drop at least once.... and that is 20 years into cellular phones in LA.

Now, there's something for me to look forward to when I'm in LA next week!  First trip there since I got my iPhone in May.  IME, dropouts in cell service are definitely worse in/around LA than anywhere else.  But I've also observed lately that the problem doesn't seem to be quite as bad as it used to be. 

Of course, streaming audio dropouts can vary depending on the bitrate of the stream.  I have a 22-mile commute to my office (when I'm not traveling) here in the Chicago area.  I listen mostly to 128k streams, usually without a dropout for the entire distance.

I'm going to be particularly interested to see (...er, hear) how the KRTH HD-2 stream holds up in So-Cal.  I have appointments ranging from Irvine, to Santa Monica, to Beverly Hills to Encino. Lots of time in the rental car with the iPhone and Whole House FM modulator.  As a 64k stream, KRTH HD-2 is more stable than the higher bitrates, but with great processing that results in reasonably high quality audio. 

We'll see how it does in the "cellular signal graveyard".

 

[stan]

Broadcasters are ignoring a growing segment of the population at their own peril.