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The Decline of Infinity New York

>
> Gee, thanks for saying that people who like oldies (and
> possibly only oldies) are stuck in the past.

I did some perceptual research a few years back for a larger company that owns a number of oldies stations. One of the findings was that the P1 oldies listener, in a large percentage, feels that the 60´s were the best times in thier lives, and like to recreate as much of the mood as possible. The P2 listener likes the music, but has other preferences and does not like the recreation of what, to them, is bygone times.

So there is a dichotomy between the two main listener groups.
>
> Could it be that groups like The Doobie Brothers, Jackson 5,
> The Trammps, ELO, Bay City Rollers did oldies covers because
> maybe the music was good?

Covers come out for a variety of reasons. Sometimes the band just likes the song, and wants to do a tribute. Sometimes they have not enough fresh material. Other times, it is because they feel the song can be done ¨their way¨ and it gets added. Covers have existed as long as there has been music. I would not read anything into a few covers.
>
> I know that Infinity, Cox, Clear Channel and allmost every
> other public radio corp have valid reasons for either
> killing off oldies, or just killing off pre 65 tunes. Good
> music is good music - and by the same token, bad music is
> bad music (Starlight Vocal Band, Bobby Goldsboro, and
> Brittany Spears to name a few).

The valid reason is the fact that the music appeals to an unprofitable demo. This has nothing to do with whether the music is good or bad. It has to do with the era when it was popular.

> Maybe the reason people are stuck in the past is because
> todays radio sucks.

No, it is a lifestyle issue. If a group of listeners finds old times better than new ones, they may want to relive them rather than catching up.
 
> > 4. Many people of the 60's oldies generation like Paula
> > Abdul, Air Supply or even Daddy Yankee as much as they
> might
> > like the Supremes. Some of us move on, others stay stuck
> in
> > the past.
>
> Gee, thanks for saying that people who like oldies (and
> possibly only oldies) are stuck in the past.
>
> Could it be that groups like The Doobie Brothers, Jackson 5,
> The Trammps, ELO, Bay City Rollers did oldies covers because
> maybe the music was good?
>
> I know that Infinity, Cox, Clear Channel and allmost every
> other public radio corp have valid reasons for either
> killing off oldies, or just killing off pre 65 tunes. Good
> music is good music - and by the same token, bad music is
> bad music (Starlight Vocal Band, Bobby Goldsboro, and
> Brittany Spears to name a few).
>
> The music will live on - thank God for satellite radio and
> the few oldies stations who still call themselves oldies.
>
> Maybe the reason people are stuck in the past is because
> todays radio sucks.
>
> Speaking of, tonight was the last night for Hy Lit on WOGL.
> Another legend gone....
>
His Website and the music and jingles there are terrific to listen to!
 
I have a question. What is the average TSL of an oldies station? I am not an oldies fan, nor am I a CHR fan, but it struck me that some oldies stations are programmed just like CHR stations (for the baby boomer generation). I live in Australia, and I worked for a station with a tight 400 song playlist, and would quite often hear the same song up to 3 times a day. I would have thought that with the depth of music, you could afford to give a bit more to the audience.
Last time I checked (it's been 5 years since I worked there) they were languishing at the bottom of the ratings.
 
> Opie and Anthony have been ranting (a little too much)
> lately on their years at Infinity Radio. However, if anyone
> should be blaming Howard and Mel K for anything, it should
> be for not standing up for the shareholders' intrests over
> Stern's demands and putting O&A on K-Rock instead of slowly
> turning WNEW into Hot Talk.
>
> Had they had:
> Stern in the morning
> Leslie Gold middays (or whoever)
> O&A in the afternoons
> Ron and Fez @ Night
> K-Rock would have been able to survive and even thrive
> without Howard.
>
> Instead, they intentionally crippled WNEW for years because
> Stern (alledgedly) had a clause in his contract that
> prevented Infinity from competing against him for "his
> demographic." So WXRK and WNEW were still fighting for the
> same listeners but without a larger strategy, and left both
> stations so weak that losing the biggest star on each
> destroys them.
>
> Not to mention in the process they destroyed WNEW's heritage
> status of being "The Rock of New York." Granted rock radio
> has been in decline for years, esp. in NYC, but even WNEW's
> worst days as a rock station (pre-O&A) were better than
> anything they've tried on it post-O&A.
>
> At some point Q104 flipped to classic rock and have been
> successful with that, even attempting to get some younger
> listeners with Leslie Gold. She was a good co-host in
> Boston when she wasn't trying to be the female Stern.
>
> Infinity could have had 3 strong stations in New York:
> WXRK - Hot Talk - Young men demo, very lucritive.
> WNEW - Classic Rock - Could have moved younger with newer
> music added in.
> WCBS-FM - Oldies - A steady money earner.
>
> Granted Mel K left before they destroyed another heritage
> station but like WNEW pre-O&A, it was still making more than
> it is as the format-of-the-year Jack FM.
>
> So instead Infinity now has:
> WXRK - Going to Hot Talk in Jan. with the unproven David Lee
> Roth and other lesser known hosts. Ratings will tank
> without Stern regardless of format.
> WNEW - Blink failed, but we got some humor out of Frankie
> Blue, but after years of tweaking and retweaking the station
> isn't a success.
> WCBS-FM - Went from 11th to 20th or so.
>
> In other words, Infinity New York has nothing good on it's
> FM stations, even as it's AM stations do well. That's not a
> legacy to be proud of for Mel K or Stern.
>


It was pointed out on the other NYC board that once Stern is gone, WLTW alone will probably have a higher share than all 3 Infinity/NY FMs combined!

If WCBS-FM fell out of the top 10 25-54 and had declining revenue I CAN understand why they flipped formats despite all of the heritage. However, Is JACK-FM in the top 10 25-54? I would guess no. (although the format seems to be doing well in more markets than not). FREE FM will almost certainly be a failure. Infinity will have 3 dogs. Meanwhile, the #1 biling station, WLTW has a full two share lead over any other station, in part thanks to Infinity who has no interest in competing against LITE'S massive female audience.
 
> > Opie and Anthony have been ranting (a little too much)
> > lately on their years at Infinity Radio. However, if
> anyone
> > should be blaming Howard and Mel K for anything, it should
>
> > be for not standing up for the shareholders' intrests over
>
> > Stern's demands and putting O&A on K-Rock instead of
> slowly
> > turning WNEW into Hot Talk.
> >
> > Had they had:
> > Stern in the morning
> > Leslie Gold middays (or whoever)
> > O&A in the afternoons
> > Ron and Fez @ Night
> > K-Rock would have been able to survive and even thrive
> > without Howard.
> >
> > Instead, they intentionally crippled WNEW for years
> because
> > Stern (alledgedly) had a clause in his contract that
> > prevented Infinity from competing against him for "his
> > demographic." So WXRK and WNEW were still fighting for
> the
> > same listeners but without a larger strategy, and left
> both
> > stations so weak that losing the biggest star on each
> > destroys them.
> >
> > Not to mention in the process they destroyed WNEW's
> heritage
> > status of being "The Rock of New York." Granted rock
> radio
> > has been in decline for years, esp. in NYC, but even
> WNEW's
> > worst days as a rock station (pre-O&A) were better than
> > anything they've tried on it post-O&A.
> >
> > At some point Q104 flipped to classic rock and have been
> > successful with that, even attempting to get some younger
> > listeners with Leslie Gold. She was a good co-host in
> > Boston when she wasn't trying to be the female Stern.
> >
> > Infinity could have had 3 strong stations in New York:
> > WXRK - Hot Talk - Young men demo, very lucritive.
> > WNEW - Classic Rock - Could have moved younger with newer
> > music added in.
> > WCBS-FM - Oldies - A steady money earner.
> >
> > Granted Mel K left before they destroyed another heritage
> > station but like WNEW pre-O&A, it was still making more
> than
> > it is as the format-of-the-year Jack FM.
> >
> > So instead Infinity now has:
> > WXRK - Going to Hot Talk in Jan. with the unproven David
> Lee
> > Roth and other lesser known hosts. Ratings will tank
> > without Stern regardless of format.
> > WNEW - Blink failed, but we got some humor out of Frankie
> > Blue, but after years of tweaking and retweaking the
> station
> > isn't a success.
> > WCBS-FM - Went from 11th to 20th or so.
> >
> > In other words, Infinity New York has nothing good on it's
>
> > FM stations, even as it's AM stations do well. That's not
> a
> > legacy to be proud of for Mel K or Stern.
> >
>
>
> It was pointed out on the other NYC board that once Stern is
> gone, WLTW alone will probably have a higher share than all
> 3 Infinity/NY FMs combined!

How sad!

>
in part thanks to Infinity who
> has no interest in competing against LITE'S massive female
> audience.

I still thought Mix 102.7 should have continued to compete with Lite FM with their Adult Contemporary format.
>
 
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