The Eagle

[RADIO TRUTH]

In response to Little1.....

Maybe dropins are not suited to your taste but, to have a running conversation within dropins is one of the most
difficult things to master for a personality dj. A dj has to set up the bit, use his brain and have good hand eye coordination when running the board, to make it work. That's why there were not many djs that did it very well.
Rick Shaw on WQAM was one of the better but, even he could have been better because he was lazy and used the same lines over and over again. To make using dropins work, you have to rotate a lot of dropins so the audience can't predict what you are going to do. I assume that you must be pretty young and I guess that different age demographics are attracted to different things humor wise but, remember one thing, Coors Light is
using the whole concept of talking to dropins with their NFL coach interview commercials and those Coors Light
commercials are targeted at a young male audience.

 

[Neanderpaul]

My mother once told me: If you acknowledge a bully, you only afford them the attention that they so desperately
crave.

I'm no longer feeding this flame war.

Certain people have their opinions. Others will find them to be totally misguided.

With regard to the Eagle:

It will be interesting to see what timetable Vince uses to, if at all, staff the station. I'm guessing we won't hear any live talent until at least 2/1/8

 

[LibertyNT]

no one gunna take my advice?
Stop Arguing and lets get this bad boy back on topic

Eagle sounding pretty good

*cough* RT need to shut it while he is still partly ahead*cough*

 

[little1]

In response to Little1.....

Maybe dropins are not suited to your taste but, to have a running conversation within dropins is one of the most
difficult things to master for a personality dj. A dj has to set up the bit, use his brain and have good hand eye coordination when running the board, to make it work. That's why there were not many djs that did it very well.
Rick Shaw on WQAM was one of the better but, even he could have been better because he was lazy and used the same lines over and over again. To make using dropins work, you have to rotate a lot of dropins so the audience can't predict what you are going to do. I assume that you must be pretty young and I guess that different age demographics are attracted to different things humor wise but, remember one thing, Coors Light is
using the whole concept of talking to dropins with their NFL coach interview commercials and those Coors Light
commercials are targeted at a young male audience.

I'm over 50. While I still feel young, I'm not. At all.
And it's not that hard to do. Script it out, load a cart with the answers to your questions, and just keep hitting play...It's not art, it's not that hard, I've done it a million times back in my early years, it's just not that funny.

And the Coors light ads aren't carrying on a conversation per se, they're taking stuff out of context. THAT is what gives them what little humor they have. It's not funny because some actor hired by coors light in having a convo with Parcells, it's funny because you know that what Parcells is saying has absolutely nothing to do, in the real world, with the questions being 'asked'. Parcells saying 'I'd have to se some physical evidence' isn't funny. Asking parcells if he's seen bigfoot isn't funny. It's the taking his answer out of context, combined with the video of the bigfoot dude standing there that makes it at all funny.

But the thing I'm not understanding is this, what is this thing you refer to of 'setting up the bit'? I thought you were all about adlibbing? So it's one of the most difficult things to master, and requires them to basically write it/set it up before hand, but it's not done completely off the cuff? gee, hypocritical much? Can you really have it both ways?

So this pinnacle of 'the art' requires scripting ahead of time. And that would be different, exactly how from reading a liner card, which is basically scripting out what you're going to say?

Your problem appears to be with the concept of reading a liner card. Like evryone does it exactly the same. But here's an example- I've heard Jeff K (of Edge, and merge, 'fame') read something I KNOW was prewritten. Because I'd heard other jocks on the station read the same thing. But with other jocks, you could tell they were reading. With Jeff, it sounded completely natural, like he was just talking to 'me' telling me about whatever...

the problem isn't with the concept, it's with the execution. Are there a lot of bad jocks out there? Very well may be. Butthat doesn't mean you can make blanket statements about how jocks now a days couldn't hold a candle to jocks of yesteryear...Because there's good jocks out there. And it's a simple case of good-old-days syndrome to spout that line.

Next thing you know you'll be telling us that the Meredith/Staubach Cowboys were better than the Aikman/Emmitt/Michael days...That's good old days syndrome, pure and simple.

the only thing simpler, and "stupider", is having a conversation with drop ins...You know the gag from the 1st drop, they're never a total suprise of where it goes, and it's usually not that funny.

But if that's your cup of tea, have at it. I can't WAIT to see if your big master plan is to have stations return to this lost art form..."Cause in the tradition of the cuecat and the Hindenburg, I love seeing companies I don't work for crash and burn...

 

[RADIO TRUTH]

Addressing Little1.....

I currently use dropins on a regular basis. I set up the bits about 15 seconds before I do them but, I know what I have available that I can easily reach quickly for dropins. Anything that I do is totally unprepared until I think of it and do it off the cuff. What makes it work in the structure of my show is taking the dropins as out of context as possible just like the Coors Lite commercials. I have found that the best way to do this is not ask the dropin a question but, make a statement and let the dropin respond as in normal conversation. When you ask a dropin a question, it comes off like Edgar Bergen and Charlie Mccarthy. I do no show prep in regard to using dropins but, again I know what I have and the structure to use them effectively. The way that I use dropins, there is no scripting ahead of time ever but, again I know what I have available. Putting dropins aside, I know that some djs can read liner cards better than others but, I can still tell that they are liner cards. I don't like anything that is a substitute for a dj thinking and creating. I used to own a few radio stations and I didn't allow dropins. I expected a dj to be able to say and do something more than give their name, the call letters and the time. If they couldn't, I found someone who could. I still think certain of the 60s djs are better than anyone today. They were in a personality era where the ratings were tied to the personality. If a personality went across town, the audience went with him. Don't forget the equipment wasn't as efficient either so between cueing records and taking meter readings and everything else, they still did it with personality. Most of today's djs are interchangeable parts, if a station gets rid of the whole staff and replace them with another set of warm bodies, it wouldn't effect the station at all. Lastly, my broadcast business has been profitable from day 1 and will only get better with what my master plan is. I need to go now and cart some more dropins.

 

[FOZZIE BEAR]

You are soooooooooooo reaching. You cannot read what the guy wrote in previous posts and honestly say he is willing to learn. After he had his butt handed to him by others, he came back with the "willing to learn" line. The guy was full of piss and vinegar until he realized his arguments were being torn to shreds. He used the "willing to learn" as a comeback. Sorry...but I don't buy it.

I read thru everything... I still don't see how he had his BUTT HANDED TO HIM. Once again, he didnt care for some random 70's band. Big deal. Why does that mean he is not willing to learn?

 

[FOZZIE BEAR]

Addressing the above.....

For the person who thinks today's personality radio djs (and I use the term loosely) are better than the djs of the 60s probably heard 60s djs from the boonies like Dallas. In the 60s, the Dallas market had only 600000 people. This is one of the major things that killed 60s personality djs. There was a lack of talent to go round. That is why there were many 60s djs who got by on voice only. Here is a list of 60s djs who are all superior to any current music dj. These djs always adlibed 100% of the time. These djs could all do adlib humor spontaneously. There is no dj today who can adlib like these guys. Unfortunately, for most of the country, there weren't enough of these guys to go around. Listen to airchecks of the following list and learn. These djs had much more required of them than any dj today. Here is a partial list in no particular order.....Dan Ingram, Herb Oscar Anderson, Bob Dayton, Ron Lundy, Cousin Brucie, Bruce Morrow, Bob Lewis, Jack Carney, Fred Hall, Chuck Leonard, Jay Reynolds, Frank Kingston Smith, Scott Muni, Chuck Dunaway, Joe O'brien, Dan Daniels, B. Mitchell Reed, Gary Stevens, Jack Spector, Dean Anthony, Johnny Dark, Harry Harrison, Ted Brown and the Redhead, Peter Tripp, Mad Daddy, Pete Myers, Jack Lacy, Stan Z. Burns, Alan Freed, Bwana Johnny, Bill Bailey, Al Brady, Bob Lockwood, Mike Phillips, Ronnie Grant, Barney Pip, Jim Runyon, Jerry G. Bishop, Joel Sebastian, Jim Stagg, Larry Lujack, Ron Britain, Clark Weber, Dick Biondi, Dex Card, Don Phillips, Jerry Kaye, Gene Taylor, Art Roberts, Charlie Tuna, The Real Don Steele, Robert W. Morgan, Bill Ballance, Casey Kasem, Bob Eubanks, Gary Owens, Emperor Hudson, Jack Armstrong, Dr. Doctor Don Rose, Jim O'brien, Tom Dooley, Long John Wade, George Michael, Dan Donovan, Jerry Blavat, Hy Lit, George Taylor Morris, Rick Shaw, Roby Younge, Lee Sherwood, Mike Harvey, Jim Dunlap, Dan Chandler, Arnie Woo Woo Ginsberg, Dale Dorman, Melvin X. Melvin, Bill Drake, Paul Drew, Buzz Bennett, Bruce Bradley, Joey Reynolds, Sandy Beach, Ron Riley, Charlie Van dyke, Wolfman Jack, George Klein, Robin Seymour and Dick Purtan. There is no current dj who can shine the shoes of any of the djs listed above. These guys could do off the cuff humor. I don't hear anybody today
that can come remotely close to this. This is why current morning shows are morning zoos with a guy, a designated laugher chick and another lackey. If there was one person who had the talent, they could do the whole show themselves but, that kind of talent does not exist today. One of the reasons for that is because some of the most talented and creative people do not want to work in radio anymore. They go into something else such as television or film. No creative person wants to work in today's world of almost automated radio and radio station owners like it this way because they can pay today's on the air bodies much less money.

WOW. I have to totally disagree with that. There are plenty of jocks out there who can do all the above and more. I do agree that most morning shows are lame and cookie cutter. However, there are alot of great jocks out there.

 

[FOZZIE BEAR]

For the person who thinks today's personality radio djs (and I use the term loosely) are better than the djs of the 60s probably heard 60s djs from the boonies like Dallas. In the 60s, the Dallas market had only 600000 people. This is one of the major things that killed 60s personality djs. There was a lack of talent to go round. That is why there were many 60s djs who got by on voice only. Here is a list of 60s djs who are all superior to any current music dj. These djs always adlibed 100% of the time. These djs could all do adlib humor spontaneously. There is no dj today who can adlib like these guys.

How do you know this? This is nothing more than your opinion. You have no idea what they did for prep, or if they were rehearsed. Obviously, you're listing these people in an effort to denigrate the current personalities on the air in Dallas. It doesn't work. Your listing of those whom you contend are better, is nothing more than the same ranting of our parents. Tantamount to anyone saying "Tom Hanks is nowhere near as good an actor as Gregory Peck" or "None of the guys playing in the NFL today would rush for a hundred yards in a game in 1940." or, "The music today sucks when compared to the Beatles & Led Zeppelin"

...ok, for every point, there is a counter-point. You think it was all better back then. That's a common philosophy. But, the world is a different place than it was then. Most of those personalities weren't contending with the fact that radio is no longer the epicenter of the lifegroups they served. It used to be that SF radio stations told the community about the free clinic. Because newspapers and TV wouldn't dare discuss a subject like that. The advent of great special effects on TV have made the "theater of the mind" irrelevant. Society has become lazy. They don't have to think for themselves. They can get everything spelled out for them. And therefore the landscape that radio personalities are forced to adapt to, changes the way they must do their job. You cannot blame the talent for the rules they exist under. Or, the restrictions that their PDs & corporate place upon them.

Am I giving lazy talent a pass? Hell no. There have always been the great, and the mediocre. In your list, you omitted some of the great, and included some of the mediocre. None need be named because it's all subjective. And therein lies the entire crux of any talent-related debate. You don't like what you hear? Nobody's forcing you to listen. Feel free to move along to what you enjoy. It's (kind of) a free country.

Addressing what I am doing that gets all the television and newspaper publicity..... I will release more information when and if I am ready. I am not particularly concerned about any reaction from anybody on this board. The people on this board are either groupies or in some cases, people who are working or have worked in radio at some level.

You might wanna think more about this. Many of us can be found every day on the dial. Most here understandably choose not to identify themselves because what they type could come back to burn them in their careers. Which is why you really should think before you type sometimes. Any one of the people who post here might be the head of any company, or even an FCC commissioner. You really don't know. And once you hit "post"...this stuff lives on forever. And it can, and does come back to haunt you. Ice-T put out a CD years ago called "Freedom Of Speech...Just Watch What You Say." The man's smarter than we give him credit for.

What I am doing is in progress, whether I post anything about it here or not. It makes absolutely no difference whether I release information on here. I will, when ready, be releasing information to local television and newspapers on a market by market basis. It's the general public that counts. If you wish to email me, you can at [email protected] If you write something that is valid and not moronic, I will email you back. If you want to talk to me on the phone, that can be arranged also.

In the preceding paragraph, you slag the people on here because they "are either groupies or in some cases, people who are working or have worked in radio at some level." And then you use "radiogroupies" for your contact info. At a Yahoo address. Neither of which really lend credibility. It appears as if it is you who has sat on the outside and slung arrows. Let me ask you a serious question. I believe it would do much to bolster your position.

Have you ever actually done this?

Or, are you one of a myriad of self-professed programmers & consultants that have never had the ability to entertain? So, you develop "the plan." The old adage "those that can...do" applies here. You spend an inordinate time worrying about things you have less than zero control , or influence over. All you've done is present negativity, and contempt toward all who do this job that you allegedly know how to do better than everyone in Dallas. Yet, you're not confident enough in your philosophy to either present it, or identify yourself. It speaks volumes when you throw stones under the cloak of anonymity. Kind of like being a person who wants us to fear them by burning the American flag, but hides their face lest they be identified for their political stance.

If you're the master strategist as you contend, consider spending less time crowing, and more time doing.

Just one man who's done this for a living for 21 years' opinion. I'm comfortable enough to know I might be wrong.

Bravo!

 

[FOZZIE BEAR]

You are soooooooooooo reaching. You cannot read what the guy wrote in previous posts and honestly say he is willing to learn. After he had his butt handed to him by others, he came back with the "willing to learn" line. The guy was full of piss and vinegar until he realized his arguments were being torn to shreds. He used the "willing to learn" as a comeback. Sorry...but I don't buy it.



From ALL OF US... Using FOZZIE'S MACHINE....This has been very entertaining and actually interesting....Happy New Year Everyone.

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

For be it for me to wince from a verbal onslaught of puke of elementary rhetoric knowing there is some more corn and peanuts I can add to the party, so since this is Texas and I am "holding" several digested opinions... on with the FLOP:

RT, if you are brazen, proven and brimming of sage counsel for the underlings in DFW, why not 1.) create your own friggin' blog and direct the CONsultants, all area PDs and GMS and the outlying masters of the universe to your site and educate them all. You have apparently been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, so why not make more than a penny for your thoughts. You know, attract reputable sponsors like porn shops and KLLI. Or, oh yeah 2.) MOVE! You and Alec Baldwin are of the same ilk it seems. If you don't like it here, leave! Of course, both of you are full of ire for the masses, but don't offer a lot in thought value for change. Kinda' like bottleneckers on 635. You just meander by the travesty and carnage, and all you can do is piss and moan about how their wreck is halting you getting to work. Good on ya'.

The TURN:

Groupies? If you think (for example) Mike Shannon, Robert Bass, Fozzie, DE, Salem, myself and now the elder Little 1 (sorry, bro... had to ;D), are collagen- and saline-enhanced bimbos stretching our wallets through our side job at Hooters, then guilty as charged. But if you were possibly mistaken with your vernacular and etymology believing "groupies" means "a collection of proven radio professionals with probably an average of 20+ years a piece in this business on various and sundry levels of radio mechanics, performance and executive decision, and all who could probably make one note of a pen and have your tail transferred to the booming radio market of Boise, Idaho" then again, guilty as charged.

The RIVER:

In all frankness, you never know who you are talking to in this place. As good ol' Walt penned, "It's a small world after all." The second one of us discovers your resume, and then notes you used to have a very misleading handle of "Radio TRUTH", you're fired. In short, even if you weren't making friends, but offering something to the conversation, we would happy to consider you "the old man that lives at the end of the block." You don't. You just whizz on everything and walk away... and you know what happens to stray dogs in this city, right?

Everyone has opinions, to which you are entitled, but then we all have @$$holes too. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to share. This forum was created for aficionados, yes. More importantly, it was designed to garner the skilled eye and thoughts of people in this industry, that care about its progress and love discussing methods and means to develop the market. Yes, our opinions are personal but it's because we care, not because we have been fired or somesuch. This is a good forum, and if your sincere mission is to stain these halls with you banter, which seems to be the equivalent of monkeys slinging poo against the wall, then please go find another cyber home. However, if you seriously want to contribute with insight and jocularity, then stay a while, you may learn something. But then again, forget that. Go get your fingers dirty, sling last night's dinner and flee.

I'm out. Happy New Year all. Cheers to 2008. ;D

 

[muzzled]

Sozzie, I disagree, There are far more warm bodies pretending to be announcers than actual talented announcers. They read, press a button on a scott system,and stay on the log. no adlibbing skills, no voice inflection, no personality, just droll and dull with a continous 12 min. commercial sweep.

 

[Neanderpaul]

Sozzie, I disagree, There are far more warm bodies pretending to be announcers than actual talented announcers. They read, press a button on a scott system,and stay on the log. no adlibbing skills, no voice inflection, no personality, just droll and dull with a continous 12 min. commercial sweep.

How much of that is them? And how much is the prescribed, sanitized delivery from the PD?

And more accurately, how much of it is rip n' read voicetracking?

There are many factors that go into the bland radio show. And yeah, a lot of it is DJs. I see "DJ" as a slam. The "DJ" is no different than the toll-taker on any turnpike USA. Just putting their time in until they get fired, or something else comes along. The "DJ" is the ruination of our business.

There are too many "DJs." In radio. And a lot of it isn't their fault at all. How are you supposed to have passion for this when some places demand that you account for anything that took more than :60 to say? And yes...you can establish personality in less than :60. But, when you have to begin and end each break with the dial position, frequency, and impossible inane and way too wordy positioning statement, plus read an expected :20 liner that's :45 worth of copy, it does cramp a person's individual style.

Here's where my mouth gets me in trouble; A lot of PDs have great concepts, and know how to set up a sound hour, but wouldn't know the first thing about sitting in the studio and doing the gig. They write these encyclopedic liners, and expect every talent to read them verbatim. Often times these novels are written for the eye, and not the ear. And if a talent deviates at all from the text, they're micromanaged. And then we're asked why radio sounds so bland.

I've worked for this guy. And I've also worked with great PDs who teach. Notice the syntax there? "worked for" vs. "worked with."

Yep. There's a serious issue right there. Working for the PD is a pain in the ass. You feel like you're being watched and every move overly scrutinized. And a lot of the time, you're right. When you work with a PD, you feel like part of a plan. You're empowered to feel like it's your plan as well as his/hers. You know why? Because that PD understands that you know your job better than he does. He/she sees that they hired you to do your thing...which is executing their plan..in your style.

Many PDs today just lack the people skills necessary to lead a radio station. They're brilliant at the marketing plans, and know how to present the tangible elements of radio. But, when it comes to that which they must cede control, or something intangible, they can't handle it. So, they reduce the possiblity of intangible content by micromanaging talent to the point of homogenization.

And then the talent is unable to grow, and develop their individual personality.

Unless they have that inate ability to entertain. Very few are born with it. Most need it developed. And there are too few PDs with either the skills, or time available to devote to it. So, sometimes that responsibility falls to the APD. More often than not, those who truly want to learn, find a mentor. I know a Station Manager who loves nothing more than to teach. He's been successful as a manager for years. He's done the gig. And he's someone I call a dear friend. When you find someone like that, it fans the flames, and you want to learn more every shift. I currently work for a great PD, who understands what we do, and leaves us to our own devices. When it's necessary to manage, he will. But most of the time, he deals with the administrative blech of being a PD, and lets his staff entertain. when you find that kind of environment, it restores your faith in what we do. That it can, and is being done correctly in some places.

Sorry for the long diatribe. I got on a roll.



Happy Sunday!

 

[TheRover]

Tonight, after 10pm, they're playing Mandatory Metallica.

It was nice to hear becuase I haven't heard that on radio in such a long time.

But, for me, that will get old after a while, as I do not think Metallic are "it" band for such a vulgar display of power !!

I would choose the David Lee Roth -- Van Halen, AC/DC, or Led Zeppelin....

Just put the 8 or 9 already over-played hits in minor rotation, and feature the tasty and heavy tracks, and the many live tracks, in the case of Zeppelin and AC/DC (ie, NOT -- Royal Orleans or the Crunge, for example...).

It's not Rocket Science. But, I guess they're on Auto-Pilot for now . . .

 

[TheRover]

BTY, the "That's Jared" Commerical and it's music, ruins whatever good groove the previous Eagle music just created.

Ditto Acne commercials.

Or Diareaha or Hemmroid commericals, in case that's next offering.

But I kind of get the idea.... "Build Them Up . . ." Bring them Down... "Build Them Up".... A Love Roller Coaster.....

Whole Lotta Love just came on..... I guess there a lot of young-uns that need to hear that one! It took me years to burn out on that!!