THE FUTURE OF EXITOS?

[radiojomo]

I agree that Indie was way too hip and my scenario had a lot of what ifs.

But my point was really that at the time Indie signed on in late 2003, I do believe that an alternative to KROQ could have had decent ratings on a better signal.

I really believe that a station that played some of the older KROQ music mixed with currents that weren't so heavy on the nu metal/hard rock side could have found a successful niche.

In some ways, KYSR is fulfilling that need.

KBZT is ahead of XTRA in the SD PPMs so you never know. It probably wouldn't work in LA though...

 

[radioresearcher]

I agree that Indie was way too hip and my scenario had a lot of what ifs.

But my point was really that at the time Indie signed on in late 2003, I do believe that an alternative to KROQ could have had decent ratings on a better signal.

I really believe that a station that played some of the older KROQ music mixed with currents that weren't so heavy on the nu metal/hard rock side could have found a successful niche.

In some ways, KYSR is fulfilling that need.

KBZT is ahead of XTRA in the SD PPMs so you never know. It probably wouldn't work in LA though...

Unlike INDIE, KBZT plays primarily familiar music. 91X is not KROQ and that's an insult to KROQ. 91X has been through so much upheavel with PD's, an ownership change, and a number of personality changes. They have a great GM in Trip Reeb, but it's still very challenged - and they don't have Kevin & Bean as their anchor. Not to mention a great Active Rock rival in KIOZ.

 

[radiojomo]

I was talking about the on-air product of 91X. 91X sounds more like KROQ than KIOZ, KPRI and KBZT. In fact, it is almost a replica of KROQ. The only thing that KROQ has that 91X doesn't is Kevin and Bean. Personally, I like the 91X Morning Show better than Kevin and Bean. It's local and funny. Now that K&B are starting to get syndicated, the show is sounding less local.

 

[RBB05]

Entra-lack-of-vision will never try to purchase or LMA the station. The creditors have issues with the loan convenants as it is, according to their last analyst call. Someone could try to buy the Indie 103.1 name from EVC and they would sell it in a minute.

Indie was more famous in the ad community despite its lack of ratings then what we give it credit for. The station had significant media buys for major brands like AT&T, Bud, Starbucks, Coors, etc., as well as the TV networks, because agency people listened to the streaming quite a bit, so while the CPP explanation is correct, Indie still got more than its fair share.

Absolutely 100% correct that no one at GRC has ever heard or cared about Indie.

JC Cuevas was not on KSSE anytime in the last 5 years, but on the Super Estrella network, which was programmed seperate from KSSE when he was there. The network was done in LA but fed programming to several markets. KSSE was 100% local. EVC dropped the Super Estrella format in the outside markets a year or so ago because it was not doing well in any of those markets and it was replaced with Gato or Jose.

The suits in Mexico are taking a big hit for ther decisions, ad probably rightfully so. But most of the decisions are coming from the U.S. management team which is compromised mostly of former Heftel Broadcasting people. It is a bg part of the reason why there was the desire to go after KLVE. It was what they knew. Many had been out of the industry in the last 5 years and relied upon their past knowledge and that is what they sold back to the suits in Mexico as the viable plan. The suits in Mexico are guilty for signing off on it without better insight.

 

[davideduardo]

Indie was more famous in the ad community despite its lack of ratings then what we give it credit for. The station had significant media buys for major brands like AT&T, Bud, Starbucks, Coors, etc., as well as the TV networks, because agency people listened to the streaming quite a bit, so while the CPP explanation is correct, Indie still got more than its fair share.

Not at the end, when the JSA ended. They got buys due to good combo pricing, not any appeal at ad agencies. Ad agency buys are audited often these days, so ones that don't have at least a reasonable correlation with the numbers put the account in jeopardy.

JC Cuevas was not on KSSE anytime in the last 5 years, but on the Super Estrella network, which was programmed seperate from KSSE when he was there.

He may not have been on regularly or recently, but all the time that he was on the network, he occasionaly was used to do fill work on the local station. Enough so that a core listener might recognize the voice if not the name.

The network was done in LA but fed programming to several markets. KSSE was 100% local. EVC dropped the Super Estrella format in the outside markets a year or so ago because it was not doing well in any of those markets and it was replaced with Gato or Jose.

Entravision thought José was a Recuerdo-killer, and it has no talent overhead. They even put it on KLYY "in" the LA market. They found that it was not what they thought, but it is cheap. So is Gato. Superestrella was expensive in contrast. But Sueperestrellas was getting good numbers in some markets, like double digits in Palm Springs... they just did that to save on costs.

The suits in Mexico are taking a big hit for ther decisions, ad probably rightfully so. But most of the decisions are coming from the U.S. management team which is compromised mostly of former Heftel Broadcasting people.

The GM never worked for Heftel... he was with a Heftel / GRC joint venture in networking, but not at a station. And the former GSM had left a decade ago. Neither had any say in the format.

It is a bg part of the reason why there was the desire to go after KLVE. It was what they knew.

Nope. Format was decided by GRC management, not local folks.

Many had been out of the industry in the last 5 years and relied upon their past knowledge and that is what they sold back to the suits in Mexico as the viable plan. The suits in Mexico are guilty for signing off on it without better insight.

The members of the Aguirre family (over 50% owners of GRC) made the decision with their best programmers from Mexico City. They made a bad call... or they made a good one that was not properly implemented by the local team, which includes Carlos Aguirre, the head of GRC.

 

[Doctah]

I still don't get why Emmis never tried to turn Movin 93.9 into either a full-blown rhythmic top 40 -- a more mainstream pairing with its Power 106 (Power 106 lite) -- or focus on late 80s/early 90s rhythmic gold (basically, make it sound like Power 106 circa 1990). Or hell, even attempt all-dance.

 

[radiojomo]

93.9 could have been the best place for Emmis to try out a CHR/Top 40 to compete with KIIS or an Adult Top 40 similar to WSTR in Atlanta or WTMX in Chicago. They had Rick Dees on board, along with their standing CHR on-air talent.
They could have been MIX 93.9 or CHANNEL 939 HITS instead of Exitos 939!

 

[leethalweapon]

93.9 could have been the best place for Emmis to try out a CHR/Top 40 to compete with KIIS or an Adult Top 40 similar to WSTR in Atlanta or WTMX in Chicago. They had Rick Dees on board, along with their standing CHR on-air talent.
They could have been MIX 93.9 or CHANNEL 939 HITS instead of Exitos 939!

What would Rick Dees have brought to a format change? He was on his way out when he was dropped by CC, and he barely rated with Movin'. Morning drive is meant to set a station up for the day. So why stick with something that didn't work?

 

[radiojomo]

He barely rated with Movin' because the station over all barely rated. But I remember when the show debuted, it had some good progress.

 

[RBB05]

not to disagree, but.....

After the JSA Indie was never a combo sell. They had their own sales staff, own management, etc. THey were the red-headed step child inside the EVC walls. They got on buys because even at $150 per spot they could hit most agency cpp's. They were not comboed with the EVC stations to bring them in.

JC Cuevas may have substituted 10 times total over 5 years at KSSE, so his local presence is minimal. The Super Estrella format got little support, and thus failed miserably in Denver, Phoenix and other places.

Barrett Alley and Jerry Symon were brought into the loop on decisions prior to the Exitos launch. They had a seat at the table. The rest of it makes my point....they had not been in the market since their Heftel days, and thus they were limited as to their current expertise.

 

[davideduardo]

After the JSA Indie was never a combo sell. They had their own sales staff, own management, etc. THey were the red-headed step child inside the EVC walls. They got on buys because even at $150 per spot they could hit most agency cpp's. They were not comboed with the EVC stations to bring them in.

The station was comboed with its JSA partners, and when they lost the second one, and their sales manager, hitting the CPP when a station is 30th does not generate great sales. Most ratings based buys do not go 30 deep.

JC Cuevas may have substituted 10 times total over 5 years at KSSE, so his local presence is minimal. The Super Estrella format got little support, and thus failed miserably in Denver, Phoenix and other places.

Going back, my original point is that the talent on KXOS is local (a poster said it was from out of market), and whether JC was on often or not does not make him any less local.

Superestrella was not intended to need much local promotion. The real issue is whether the format, even well promoted, is viable in many Southwestern markets. And, if it is, is it a niche proposition or can it compete at the top?

Barrett Alley and Jerry Symon were brought into the loop on decisions prior to the Exitos launch.

What format and music knowledge do two non-Spanish speakers have to offer? They are not of the lifestyle, the culture or the musical experience of the listener base. I can imagine their being present for the meetings, but making contributions... not.

And it is quite public knowledge that the opoerator is interviwing and making offers to people to "fix the disaster."

For the moment, Exitos is "Katrina" and GRC is "FEMA."

They had a seat at the table. The rest of it makes my point....they had not been in the market since their Heftel days, and thus they were limited as to their current expertise.

They had no programming expertese in Spanish language music formats, ever.

 

[RBB05]

No pint in arguing Indie issues on an Exitos post, but we'll just say that when the JSA ended, Indie was not comboed with any EVC station. There was ajoint partnership between KDAY and Indie in the last 6 months of Indie, but that was not a formal combo agreement.

Despite its low standing/ratings Indie did do well with agencies. It had a great run with AT&T for two years, Starbucks, Southwest Airlines, CA Dept of Conservation, TNT, TBS, A&E, The History Channel, Bev Mo...all agency accounts. There were people at specific agencies who understood the value of the unique audience, and as long as the station was going to hit cpp's and not use up that many points , it was viable for agency buys.

As for Symon and Alley, two non-Spanish speakers conceivable have little role in programming, but history correctly says they did when it came to the Heftel and they were part of the research and consultation that went on prior to the Exitos launch because of their Spanish language radio history in LA. I would argue that they no lomger had valuable insights because they had been out of the game so long, but input they did have. And as for being non-Spanish speaking, it's not like Bill Tanner was fluent....but he understood research and testing and had some measure of success. Kordus, Visotcky, Radlovic...none speaks Spanish but they have all had input over the years into SBS programming....it's not like it doesn't happen. While it would be best to understand the language, it is not imperative, nor is it a prerequisite towards understanding the culture. They understood research, they understood focus groups and they understood, in theory, how to sell it.

I am not advocating it, but there is along history of non-Spanish speaking station managers at prominent media companies in LA having a role in programming.

 

[musicfan101]

No pint in arguing Indie issues on an Exitos post, but we'll just say that when the JSA ended, Indie was not comboed with any EVC station. There was ajoint partnership between KDAY and Indie in the last 6 months of Indie, but that was not a formal combo agreement.

Despite its low standing/ratings Indie did do well with agencies. It had a great run with AT&T for two years, Starbucks, Southwest Airlines, CA Dept of Conservation, TNT, TBS, A&E, The History Channel, Bev Mo...all agency accounts. There were people at specific agencies who understood the value of the unique audience, and as long as the station was going to hit cpp's and not use up that many points , it was viable for agency buys.

As for Symon and Alley, two non-Spanish speakers conceivable have little role in programming, but history correctly says they did when it came to the Heftel and they were part of the research and consultation that went on prior to the Exitos launch because of their Spanish language radio history in LA. I would argue that they no lomger had valuable insights because they had been out of the game so long, but input they did have. And as for being non-Spanish speaking, it's not like Bill Tanner was fluent....but he understood research and testing and had some measure of success. Kordus, Visotcky, Radlovic...none speaks Spanish but they have all had input over the years into SBS programming....it's not like it doesn't happen. While it would be best to understand the language, it is not imperative, nor is it a prerequisite towards understanding the culture. They understood research, they understood focus groups and they understood, in theory, how to sell it.

I am not advocating it, but there is along history of non-Spanish speaking station managers at prominent media companies in LA having a role in programming.

You know, I've always wondered how come why the folks at Turner (TNT and TBS) never entered the radio business? I'm sure they would do successful

 

[davideduardo]

Despite its low standing/ratings Indie did do well with agencies. It had a great run with AT&T for two years, Starbucks, Southwest Airlines, CA Dept of Conservation, TNT, TBS, A&E, The History Channel, Bev Mo...all agency accounts. There were people at specific agencies who understood the value of the unique audience, and as long as the station was going to hit cpp's and not use up that many points , it was viable for agency buys.

After the revenue peaked in 2007, it disintegrated in 2008 and thus the format change.

As for Symon and Alley, two non-Spanish speakers conceivable have little role in programming, but history correctly says they did when it came to the Heftel

Alley had nothing to do with KLVE and KTNQ under Heftel; he managed a network that distributed CRC news in the US. Symon had less to do with programming than Alley, and was, in fact, opposed to the changes made starting in early 1995 that ended with KLVE's historic 7.2 in Fall, 1995.

and they were part of the research and consultation that went on prior to the Exitos launch because of their Spanish language radio history in LA.

As I said, neither had any LA programming involvement or experience. None.

I would argue that they no lomger had valuable insights because they had been out of the game so long, but input they did have.

Even that does not explain the quirky and highly unsuccessful format of KXOS.

And as for being non-Spanish speaking, it's not like Bill Tanner was fluent....but he understood research and testing and had some measure of success.

Tanner had worked in Miami since the mid-70's, and was very active in courting the Miami Hispanic audience. He helped set up Radio Hit in 1980, and later was involved for years with Russ Oasis and his Spanish language stations. While he did not regularly speak Spanish, he understood it quite well, as should be evident from his work with Heftel / HBC and later with SBS.

Kordus, Visotcky, Radlovic...none speaks Spanish but they have all had input over the years into SBS programming....it's not like it doesn't happen.

Yes, unfortunately, it happens. The three examples you give here are examples of why it shouldn't and despite the best efforts of Pio Ferro, they managed to mess with programming.

While it would be best to understand the language, it is not imperative, nor is it a prerequisite towards understanding the culture. They understood research, they understood focus groups and they understood, in theory, how to sell it.

Of course, HBC / Heftel never did focus groups, but don't let that interfere with your interpretation. Culture is reflected in langauge, and it is difficult to understand and work with a culture in programming without knowing the language. In fact, even research is different, from rectuiting to interpretation, due to cultural differences in responses...

Since in LA the majority of clients are sold in English, that's a different story.

I am not advocating it, but there is along history of non-Spanish speaking station managers at prominent media companies in LA having a role in programming.

And there is a long history of those who least interferred with the content being the most successful... all over the US.

 

[RBB05]

I don't disagree that they should be Spanish speaking...I was just pointing out that there is a long history of people at the top of the Spanish language stations not being Spanish speaking...for better or for worse...

Indie's standing in the market was not that much difference in 2008 than in 2009, (once you drop below 20th, does it really matter), so ratings ad revenue were not tied together. The drop in revenue was due to one client, Helio, who sponsored everthing in 2007 and who spent seven figures on Indie, going to zero dollars in 2008. The change in format might have happened anyway, as the profit margins were small for Indie because of the cost of operation. THe revenue stream for Gato is less than Indie, but the stations costs much, much , much less to run.

 

[davideduardo]

THe revenue stream for Gato is less than Indie, but the stations costs much, much , much less to run.

The station is just at the 6 month mark; being in a recession, the newness of PPM and the fact that stations take as long as a year to be trusted on a buy all mean that you can't compare a brand new station with one that was a number of years into its format.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't disagree that they should be Spanish speaking...I was just pointing out that there is a long history of people at the top of the Spanish language stations not being Spanish speaking...for better or for worse...

Indie's standing in the market was not that much difference in 2008 than in 2009, (once you drop below 20th, does it really matter), so ratings ad revenue were not tied together. The drop in revenue was due to one client, Helio, who sponsored everthing in 2007 and who spent seven figures on Indie, going to zero dollars in 2008. The change in format might have happened anyway, as the profit margins were small for Indie because of the cost of operation. THe revenue stream for Gato is less than Indie, but the stations costs much, much , much less to run.

 

[RBB05]

of course I meant to say that Indie's revenue in 2007 was not much different in 2008...I got my years off...sorry.

 

[davideduardo]

of course I meant to say that Indie's revenue in 2007 was not much different in 2008...I got my years off...sorry.

Yeah, I kind of figured as much after I posted. The "source" has a drop from '07 to '08 of about 18%,

 

[Wildstyle K]

I don't listen to Spanish radio, but I was pretty sure this station was clueless the first time I saw the bus billboard where it said "Exitos 9 39" with the 39 in small print and no dot between the three and the second nine or even the letters FM. So it looked like an ad for two simulcasted TV stations broadcasting on channels 9 and 39.

They have an agency-created $1.2 million dollar outdoor campaign, vans, and a lot of street presence. It is among the biggest failed launches I have ever seen.

This is funny, because the ONE time I did drive all around L.A. and other parts of southern California while visiting, I did see that bus poster ad and thought "what the heck...?", and I also saw the van! In my Zune, as I was scanning for L.A. stations, I noticed 93.9 showing up as KMVN, but playing spanish music. Something tells me that I probably would've enjoyed the Movin format they had more than what it has become now. Anyway, best of luck to everyone at 93.9.