The future of Oldies

[am-fm]

I love oldies - meaning music from the 50's, 60's and 70's. From disco to doo-wop, from classic rock to classic R&B - its all good music. The most ironic thing is that I hear "variety" on oldies stations, and it makes me think "If theres variety, wheres the pre 64 hits? Wheres the Wall of Sound? Wheres the early Motown?" Do I want all doo wop and obscure 50's hits? Even Im not that dumb to think that most stations could survive like that. But would playing hits like "You Really Got a Hold On Me," "At Last," "La Bamba," "Jailhouse Rock" and "Shout!" drive people away?

The only way that the 56-mid 70's oldies station is going to live is if IBOC on FM becomes successfull - then maybe a full time true oldies station can survive on FM. But people dont seem to want musi on AM - too many appliances that interfere, and allot of the stations are on places that cant be heard due to signal strength.

I hope oldies, the true oldies, can survive with the advent of IBOC. If not, I guess it will die, with classic rock next....<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies or jamminoldies105
CBS-FM lives at http://67.83.125.155:8010
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>

 

[wattagecottage]

Re: The future of Oldies????????

My personal opinion is that stations could and should mix it up. take the decades 50's, 60's 70's and even some 80's pick a precentage of each and mix them right. I think a format like that with personalities could make a whole new marketable format.I would think the late 60's and seventies could be biggest share, then 80s and pre 67 a smaller share, then sprinkle in some of the 50's for spice. A bright sound, with up, local flavor personalities. We need to educate listeners what they are listening to, in regards to early stuff, most dont easily recognize it. It would hold the older demo for longer. And show where it all began.not group all 50s as gone, I bet most people, younger people, recognize Elvis, Chuck Berry ,Little Richard etc. not the sticky, gooey stuff some of the people did.What are your thoughts?????

 

[OldiesCat]

Oldies

Unfortuately, it's been proven and makes sense that radio stations are not in the business to "educate listeners". Radio stations entertain and fulfill expectation. You can't just throw on a concept then hope to "educate" the audience as to why they should listen and like it. It has never worked. And it's been the radio station that's always been learning "the lesson".

> We need to educate listeners what they are listening to, in regards to early
> stuff, most dont easily recognize it. It would hold the
> older demo for longer. And show where it all began.not group
> all 50s as gone, I bet most people, younger people,
> recognize Elvis, Chuck Berry ,Little Richard etc. not the
> sticky, gooey stuff some of the people did.What are your
> thoughts?????
>

 

[jcr]

Re: Oldies

We have an oldies station in Cincinnati that plays the greatest hits of the 60s and 70s. Problem is, they are in love with Cecilia by Simon and Garfunkel, Spirit in the Sky by Norman Greenbaum, and Happy Together by The Turtles. The same songs become boring real quick when heard over and over again. Perhaps, research does show these are the songs that test well and are what people want to hear. As for me, I find alternate means of listening to music, such as online radio stations playing more of the type of music I want to hear, and monthly subscription to Rhapsody. And I am not listening to the commercials of the advertisers.






> Unfortuately, it's been proven and makes sense that radio
> stations are not in the business to "educate listeners".
> Radio stations entertain and fulfill expectation. You can't
> just throw on a concept then hope to "educate" the audience
> as to why they should listen and like it. It has never
> worked. And it's been the radio station that's always been
> learning "the lesson".
>
> > We need to educate listeners what they are listening to,
> in regards to early
> > stuff, most dont easily recognize it. It would hold the
> > older demo for longer. And show where it all began.not
> group
> > all 50s as gone, I bet most people, younger people,
> > recognize Elvis, Chuck Berry ,Little Richard etc. not the
> > sticky, gooey stuff some of the people did.What are your
> > thoughts?????
> >
>

 

[hangbush]

One rule we use in our oldies-based format is:
The older the song, the better it has to be to make the playlist.
Little Richard gets played instead of the Pat Boone cover.
Tab Hunter loses to Sonny James.
More Beatles, less Bee Gees.

Incidentally, we go back to 53, or was it 54 to pick up what I consider the first Rock and Roll hit, "The Girl Can't Help it" by Little Richard. Some dispute me on this because Little Richard wasn't white enough to be considered an actual rock and roll pioneer, even if he did help invent the stuff. But I digress.

And it's true, Oldies are alive and well on LPFM in a lot of places! Some of these stations even have licenses!!


> I love oldies - meaning music from the 50's, 60's and 70's.
> From disco to doo-wop, from classic rock to classic R&B -
> its all good music. The most ironic thing is that I hear
> "variety" on oldies stations, and it makes me think "If
> theres variety, wheres the pre 64 hits? Wheres the Wall of
> Sound? Wheres the early Motown?" Do I want all doo wop and
> obscure 50's hits? Even Im not that dumb to think that most
> stations could survive like that. But would playing hits
> like "You Really Got a Hold On Me," "At Last," "La Bamba,"
> "Jailhouse Rock" and "Shout!" drive people away?
>
> The only way that the 56-mid 70's oldies station is going to
> live is if IBOC on FM becomes successfull - then maybe a
> full time true oldies station can survive on FM. But people
> dont seem to want musi on AM - too many appliances that
> interfere, and allot of the stations are on places that cant
> be heard due to signal strength.
>
> I hope oldies, the true oldies, can survive with the advent
> of IBOC. If not, I guess it will die, with classic rock
> next....
>

 

[radiolover78]

Re: Oldies

> We have an oldies station in Cincinnati that plays the
> greatest hits of the 60s and 70s. Problem is, they are in
> love with Cecilia by Simon and Garfunkel, Spirit in the Sky
> by Norman Greenbaum, and Happy Together by The Turtles. The
> same songs become boring real quick when heard over and over
> again. Perhaps, research does show these are the songs that
> test well and are what people want to hear. As for me, I
> find alternate means of listening to music, such as online
> radio stations playing more of the type of music I want to
> hear, and monthly subscription to Rhapsody. And I am not
> listening to the commercials of the advertisers.
>

Thats the thing. A lot of oldies stations have small playlists. Regular listeners probably don't care though.

>
>
> > Unfortuately, it's been proven and makes sense that radio
> > stations are not in the business to "educate listeners".
> > Radio stations entertain and fulfill expectation. You
> can't
> > just throw on a concept then hope to "educate" the
> audience
> > as to why they should listen and like it. It has never
> > worked. And it's been the radio station that's always
> been
> > learning "the lesson".
> >
> > > We need to educate listeners what they are listening
> to,
> > in regards to early
> > > stuff, most dont easily recognize it. It would hold the
> > > older demo for longer. And show where it all began.not
> > group
> > > all 50s as gone, I bet most people, younger people,
> > > recognize Elvis, Chuck Berry ,Little Richard etc. not
> the
> > > sticky, gooey stuff some of the people did.What are your
>
> > > thoughts?????
> > >
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Check my website www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>

 

[valkyrie777]

> I hope oldies, the true oldies, can survive with the advent
> of IBOC. If not, I guess it will die, with classic rock
> next....
>

Sounds like a conundrum to me. The "future of the past" is what? Hehe Perhaps you should be reading the "I Ching" or reading some Carlos Casteneda to answer those questions, Grasshopper.

The music will survive, Tommy; it's the lousy Programmers who haven't a clue how to present it that are closer to being "dodo-ized", i.e., extinct.

All it takes are people like you who love the classics, keep playing them and promoting the format for Oldies to survive.

You are the future of the format; use that wisely.

 

[OldiesCat]

LPFM Oldies

You are required to have a license if you're LPFM. If you're broadcasting low- power without an FCC license, you're just another pirate station.

>
> And it's true, Oldies are alive and well on LPFM in a lot of
> places! Some of these stations even have licenses!!
>

 

[hangbush]

Re: LPFM Oldies *DELETED*

Post deleted by hangbush

 

[Oldbones]

Re: LPFM Oldies

>
> Despite that, many low power stations are broadcasting
> oldies. Some of these stations even have licenses!
>

And some of those may even have listeners!

 

[Oldbones]

Re: The future of Oldies????????

> I bet most people, younger people,
> recognize Elvis, Chuck Berry ,Little Richard etc. not the
> sticky, gooey stuff some of the people did.What are your
> thoughts?????
>

I'm sure they do recognize them, the question is do they care? For the most part these artists are relevant only to an audience that has aged out of a demo that advertisers are interested in. Not sure what you mean by the "sticky, gooey stuff some of the people did"...songs like "Honey" I presume? Gratefully I haven't heard that one in decades, and that's fine with me. I'm sure you can still find Perry Como & Connie Francis ballads on MOR stations.

 

[semoochie]

> One rule we use in our oldies-based format is:
> The older the song, the better it has to be to make the
> playlist.
> Little Richard gets played instead of the Pat Boone cover.
> Tab Hunter loses to Sonny James.
> More Beatles, less Bee Gees.
>
> Incidentally, we go back to 53, or was it 54 to pick up what
> I consider the first Rock and Roll hit, "The Girl Can't Help
> it" by Little Richard. Some dispute me on this because
> Little Richard wasn't white enough to be considered an
> actual rock and roll pioneer, even if he did help invent the
> stuff. But I digress.
>
> And it's true, Oldies are alive and well on LPFM in a lot of
> places! Some of these stations even have licenses!!
>
>
> > I love oldies - meaning music from the 50's, 60's and
> 70's.
> > From disco to doo-wop, from classic rock to classic R&B -
>
> > its all good music. The most ironic thing is that I hear
> > "variety" on oldies stations, and it makes me think "If
> > theres variety, wheres the pre 64 hits? Wheres the Wall of
>
> > Sound? Wheres the early Motown?" Do I want all doo wop and
>
> > obscure 50's hits? Even Im not that dumb to think that
> most
> > stations could survive like that. But would playing hits
> > like "You Really Got a Hold On Me," "At Last," "La Bamba,"
>
> > "Jailhouse Rock" and "Shout!" drive people away?
> >
> > The only way that the 56-mid 70's oldies station is going
> to
> > live is if IBOC on FM becomes successfull - then maybe a
> > full time true oldies station can survive on FM. But
> people
> > dont seem to want musi on AM - too many appliances that
> > interfere, and allot of the stations are on places that
> cant
> > be heard due to signal strength.
> >
> > I hope oldies, the true oldies, can survive with the
> advent
> > of IBOC. If not, I guess it will die, with classic rock
> > next....
> >
>
"The Girl Can't Help It" is from the 1957 movie of the same name and didn't make the top 40.

 

[FMRadio1]

Why is everyone so surprised that the oldies format is going away? It's meeting the same fate that Big Band and Adult Standards formats have already...the 40 year music cycle. Think about it...Big Band formatted stations switched to 50's based "standards" in the 80's..forty years after that music was popular. In the 90's, 50's music began disappearing from oldies playlists and standards stations either died or were relegated to "graveyard" AM signals--again 40 years after this music peaked. Now it's midway through the first decade of the 2000's, and it's now oldies turn to enter the music museum. As you said, in the next several years Classic rock will be the next to go. Their 40 year cycle will be up by then.

Guess what Boomers, the rest of us don't want to hear your MOYL anymore and advertisers don't want to buy airtime on stations that play it. Get over it. Step aside and let the Gen-Xers have their time. When you were programming radio stations in the 80's and 90's you had no problem dumping formats that played 40 year old music. You knew back then that advertisers did not want to cater to the 55+ crowd. Nothing has changed. You are no different than previous generations. Why should your generation and your music be treated any differently? You shouldn't be shocked that Gen-Xers are blowing up your "nostalgia" stations in many markets, with more to come in the next couple of years. You did the same thing in the 80's and 90's to Big Band and Standards for the same reason. It's the 40 year music cycle. Don't take it personal, it's just the natural order of things.

That said, the music of the 50's, 60's and early 70's will still have an audience--just not a mass appeal one. It will become a historical niche musical style, much like mainstream jazz, classical, big band, folk, bluegrass and world music. There will be people who collect this music and thanks to the internet, plenty of places for fans to listen to and download songs from this era. There's nothing wrong with that. Plus, Oldies stations will still live on in rural areas and markets with heavy concentrations of elderly residents for the next several years or so. The future of oldies...bleak as a mainline radio format, but the music will live on in non traditional media.

--Mike Thomas



> I love oldies - meaning music from the 50's, 60's and 70's.
> From disco to doo-wop, from classic rock to classic R&B -
> its all good music. The most ironic thing is that I hear
> "variety" on oldies stations, and it makes me think "If
> theres variety, wheres the pre 64 hits? Wheres the Wall of
> Sound? Wheres the early Motown?" Do I want all doo wop and
> obscure 50's hits? Even Im not that dumb to think that most
> stations could survive like that. But would playing hits
> like "You Really Got a Hold On Me," "At Last," "La Bamba,"
> "Jailhouse Rock" and "Shout!" drive people away?
>
> The only way that the 56-mid 70's oldies station is going to
> live is if IBOC on FM becomes successfull - then maybe a
> full time true oldies station can survive on FM. But people
> dont seem to want musi on AM - too many appliances that
> interfere, and allot of the stations are on places that cant
> be heard due to signal strength.
>
> I hope oldies, the true oldies, can survive with the advent
> of IBOC. If not, I guess it will die, with classic rock
> next....
>

 

[Oldbones]

>
> Guess what Boomers, the rest of us don't want to hear your
> MOYL anymore and advertisers don't want to buy airtime on
> stations that play it. Get over it. Step aside and let the
> Gen-Xers have their time. When you were programming radio
> stations in the 80's and 90's you had no problem dumping
> formats that played 40 year old music. You knew back then
> that advertisers did not want to cater to the 55+ crowd.
> Nothing has changed. You are no different than previous
> generations. Why should your generation and your music be
> treated any differently? You shouldn't be shocked that
> Gen-Xers are blowing up your "nostalgia" stations in many
> markets, with more to come in the next couple of years. You
> did the same thing in the 80's and 90's to Big Band and
> Standards for the same reason. It's the 40 year music
> cycle. Don't take it personal, it's just the natural order
> of things.


My only comment to this is that, at least on this board, it's not the boomers who are whining about the demise of pre-1970 oldies...it seems to be the 20somethings who for some reason want to have radio play 50s music (whether they actually listen to it or not). I'm not sure how all these stations can make any money chasing the gen-x'ers though...they're a LOT smaller a generation than the boomers. Seems to be a pretty dumb move for the advertising community to kiss off the largest generation in history...one that's shown time and time again that they're willing to spend.

 

[Mouth1390]

> Why is everyone so surprised that the oldies format is going
> away? It's meeting the same fate that Big Band and Adult
> Standards formats have already...the 40 year music cycle.
> Think about it...Big Band formatted stations switched to
> 50's based "standards" in the 80's..forty years after that
> music was popular. In the 90's, 50's music began
> disappearing from oldies playlists and standards stations
> either died or were relegated to "graveyard" AM
> signals--again 40 years after this music peaked. Now it's
> midway through the first decade of the 2000's, and it's now
> oldies turn to enter the music museum. As you said, in the
> next several years Classic rock will be the next to go.
> Their 40 year cycle will be up by then.
>
> Guess what Boomers, the rest of us don't want to hear your
> MOYL anymore and advertisers don't want to buy airtime on
> stations that play it. Get over it. Step aside and let the
> Gen-Xers have their time. When you were programming radio
> stations in the 80's and 90's you had no problem dumping
> formats that played 40 year old music. You knew back then
> that advertisers did not want to cater to the 55+ crowd.
> Nothing has changed. You are no different than previous
> generations. Why should your generation and your music be
> treated any differently? You shouldn't be shocked that
> Gen-Xers are blowing up your "nostalgia" stations in many
> markets, with more to come in the next couple of years. You
> did the same thing in the 80's and 90's to Big Band and
> Standards for the same reason. It's the 40 year music
> cycle. Don't take it personal, it's just the natural order
> of things.
>
> That said, the music of the 50's, 60's and early 70's will
> still have an audience--just not a mass appeal one. It will
> become a historical niche musical style, much like
> mainstream jazz, classical, big band, folk, bluegrass and
> world music. There will be people who collect this music
> and thanks to the internet, plenty of places for fans to
> listen to and download songs from this era. There's nothing
> wrong with that. Plus, Oldies stations will still live on
> in rural areas and markets with heavy concentrations of
> elderly residents for the next several years or so. The
> future of oldies...bleak as a mainline radio format, but the
> music will live on in non traditional media.
>
> --Mike Thomas
>
Whoa Mike !

I am very interested in your 40 year cycle theory. If such were the case, the New York Times Company would not be playing the Hits of the 1700's on their radio station WQXR, New York and making money with it. . .WHLI, Long Island would not be playing a very traditional Adult/Standards format and making money with it. . .and Entercom would have thrown in the towel with KB Radio 1520 up in Buffalo.

Additionally, your history on the evolution of the Adult/Standards format is completely wrong. Here's how it happened. . .the powerhouse Middle of the Road stations of the 1960s and 1970s (ie: WNEW, New York) determined that they would never be able to reach 18 to 49 year olds and refocused on adults 25 to 49. Now in 1979, that 49 year old was born in 1930. . .so a big band tune or two did not hurt and it didn't send the other end running either, believe it or not. And the Adult/Standard format grew out of targetting hits by artists of mature appeal from the period 1950 to 1970 with the occasional big band tune. These stations were NOT big band exclusively. It was simply part of the format. It was an evolutionary cycle that continues. Mike, people will always want to hear something meoldic as they hit 40 or so. . .it's just the way it is.

Now, in as far as signals go: you may think they're 'graveyard AM signals', but there are a limited number of them and that makes them a valuable resource with an economic value. Advertising dollars are the driving force behind radio and the smaller market stations, with their ability to sell directly to advertisers without the agency middleman, will continue to thrive with Adult/Standards and Oldies formats. Remember, Mike, the Baby Boomers have considerable wealth and I know of no business who is willing to completely ignore this market.

Finally, you want the Gen Xers to have their day and that is all well and good. Face it, though, you guys love Howard Stern and he is a BABY BOOMER ! Go figure.
I would have thought your generation would have spawned an entertaining, engaging personality who can capture an audience. . .well, maybe someday.

 

[1290wgli]

> Finally, you want the Gen Xers to have their day and that is
> all well and good. Face it, though, you guys love Howard
> Stern and he is a BABY BOOMER ! Go figure.
> I would have thought your generation would have spawned an
> entertaining, engaging personality who can capture an
> audience. . .well, maybe someday.
>

What's sad is that the young audiences today use radio in different ways than previous generations. Even if a young personality existed that was engaging and entertaining (in a music format), I'm not sure that they would bond with their audience in the same way that people bonded to a Bruce Morrow or Dan Ingram.

The most engaging personalities today exist on talk radio and talk based shows (like Stern and Hannity etc). CHR stations use plug ins... to me, they all sound alike... not that they sound BAD, but they all are cut from the same mold. Very few actually stand out, which makes them easier to replace when they move on or begin to make too much money.

 

[Oldbones]

> What's sad is that the young audiences today use radio in
> different ways than previous generations. Even if a young
> personality existed that was engaging and entertaining (in a
> music format), I'm not sure that they would bond with their
> audience in the same way that people bonded to a Bruce
> Morrow or Dan Ingram.
>
> The most engaging personalities today exist on talk radio
> and talk based shows (like Stern and Hannity etc). CHR
> stations use plug ins... to me, they all sound alike... not
> that they sound BAD, but they all are cut from the same
> mold. Very few actually stand out, which makes them easier
> to replace when they move on or begin to make too much
> money.
>

Times change and tastes change. I doubt that a jock today who tried to be a Cousin Brucie (even if management allowed it) would catch on like they did in the 60s. Today's teens/20somethings are not just junior versions of their parents...they're a whole different generation, differing from the boomers in many more ways than just taste in entertainment.

Remember Bill Drake instituted liner-card radio 40 years ago...with a handful of exceptions most Drake jocks all sounded pretty much alike too. Keep in mind that before the mid-80s there was very little talk radio. I read an interview with Joey Reynolds once where he said that many of the "personality" jocks of his era went with Top 40 radio because there was no where else they could do their schtik.

 

[peppertree]

I think Rock This Joint by Bill Haley and The Saddlemen is the first rock and roll record. My wife thinks it is Rocket 88. Both are much older than the Little Richard song, which is a good song.


> "The Girl Can't Help It" is from the 1957 movie of the same
> name and didn't make the top 40.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[peppertree]

Re: LPFM Oldies

What is the matter with being a Pirate station? (Assume not interfering with other stations).

> You are required to have a license if you're LPFM. If
> you're broadcasting low- power without an FCC license,
> you're just another pirate station.
>
> >
> > <P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[OldiesCat]

first Oldies

"Shake, Rattle & Roll" by Bill Haley & His Comets (1954) really was truly the first major rock & roll hit that mattered.