The new krth

[michael hagerty]

I always assumed that when KHJ-FM in 1972 decided to become KRTH (K-Earth), the new call letters were inspired by the first Earth Day, which took place in 1970, and the popularity of Earth Shoes (with the thick soles and thin heels), which went on sale in 1970. In response to semoochie, I'm guessing that, thirty years from now, when classic hits stations are playing music from the early 2000s, there won't be many songs from 2002-06, when hip-hop was so dominant. But I could be wrong---perhaps listeners in 2043 will want to hear Nelly, Eminem, Missy Elliott, Chingy, 50 Cent, Ja Rule, The Game, Ludacris, Ciara, and Kanye West.

Michael, 1964 through 1990 is a 27-year-span, not 26. You have to take all those years inclusive, not just subtract 1964 frrom 1990. I know you think I don't understand much about formats and playlists...but I do know my 'rithmetic. But the issue will soon be moot because I think KRTH will soon be 1970s-80s-90s the same as KOLA.

Your assumption about the name is correct, but the thought was that the Earth Day/Last Whole Earth Catalog thing resonated with an album audience.

You're still assuming that the station will be playing 40 year old records in 2043. That would be a mistake. You want 40-year-old listeners (which then would be people who are 10 this year), not 40-year-old music (with a handful of extreme exceptions).

As for 27 versus 26, fine...that's 675 titles, which is still less 175 fewer tracks than KRTH plays now.

 

[Thomps2525]

A few days ago, I suggested a classic hits format that featured Hispanic/Latino/Latina artists from several different genres of music. David told me that such a format would be too broad-based to ever work.

Today I learned that KCSN's HD2 channel has dropped classical and switched to Latin Alternative, a mix of Latin pop, modern rock, classic rock, hip-hop, dance music and salsoul---in other words, a broad-based format featuring Hispanic/Latino/Latina artists from several different genres of music. There ya go!

 

[Thomps2525]

Are we allowed to post links to other discussion boards? "Freedom of speech" and "freedom of information" and all that? On page 3 of a KRTH discussion at http://xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?t=120994&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 I posted an updated playlist two months ago because most of the pre-1964 songs had been dropped and more '80s songs had been added. Now I'll probably have to go through the list and remove most of the 1964-69 songs. I'm assuming that many more 1970s-80s songs will be added.

 

[michael hagerty]

A few days ago, I suggested a classic hits format that featured Hispanic/Latino/Latina artists from several different genres of music. David told me that such a format would be too broad-based to ever work.

Today I learned that KCSN's HD2 channel has dropped classical and switched to Latin Alternative, a mix of Latin pop, modern rock, classic rock, hip-hop, dance music and salsoul---in other words, a broad-based format featuring Hispanic/Latino/Latina artists from several different genres of music. There ya go!

Where ya go, Steve?

Are you seriously suggesting that there's a logical link between a commercial radio station that needs to bill 8 figures a year and the HD-2 of a noncomm?

Okay, you've never touched alcohol. What about hallucinogens?

 

[michael hagerty]

Are we allowed to post links to other discussion boards? "Freedom of speech" and "freedom of information" and all that? On page 3 of a KRTH discussion at http://xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?t=120994&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 I posted an updated playlist two months ago because most of the pre-1964 songs had been dropped and more '80s songs had been added. Now I'll probably have to go through the list and remove most of the 1964-69 songs. I'm assuming that many more 1970s-80s songs will be added.

I think they're playing the viable 70s songs. Any significant chunks of music would most likely be from the 80s or early 90s.

 

[Thomps2525]

Okay, so KRTH has a cume of 30,000,000 and KCSN HD2 has a cume of seven people. Granted, I could have found a better comparison...but somebody besides me had an idea for a multi-genre Latino format so I feel slightly vindicated. And no, I've never used alcohol or marijuana or hallucinogens. I was a nice clean young man! I still am. Well...except for the "young" part.

On the subject of "viable '70s songs," don't you think KRTH plays a few, such as the Eagles' One Of These Nights, that are more suitable for a classic rock station than a classic hits station?

 

[davideduardo]

A few days ago, I suggested a classic hits format that featured Hispanic/Latino/Latina artists from several different genres of music. David told me that such a format would be too broad-based to ever work.

You suggested a group of artists that included a Tejano artist that had a couple of Country crossovers, a nearly-over pop artist, an artist who, except for a Christmas song, had no international hits, and some groups (Lobos, Lonely Boys) with little appeal and no real gold (La Bamba is a 200 year old song...). That format, in English, Spanish, Greek or Farsi will not work anywhere as it is too broad and has no songs anybody wants to hear today.

"Classic Hits" is an industry insider term for 70's and early 80's based pop / CHR hits. Shakira's first hit was in 1994. Freddy had no 70's or 80's pop hits in Spanish. Los Lonely Boys did not exist at that time, and in the 70's Feliciano was mostly recording boleros or AC type songs. Los Lobos did a cover of a 50's pop song which was a cover of a cover of a cover of a... In other words, your concept was not "Classic Hits" as it contains neither "classic" nor "hits".

Today I learned that KCSN's HD2 channel has dropped classical and switched to Latin Alternative, a mix of Latin pop, modern rock, classic rock, hip-hop, dance music and salsoul---in other words, a broad-based format featuring Hispanic/Latino/Latina artists from several different genres of music. There ya go!

The HD 2 will cover maybe 1.5 million people, if that... 99% of whom don't like Spanish language rock.

This format is not broad based.... it is extremely narrow: mostly rock en español in its different variations with a touch of what is almost "world music". It's appeal is so narrow that nothing similar has ever worked anywhere in Mexico or, for that matter, Latin America. In fact, the only place that a 100% Spanish language rock station has ever worked was a classic rock station that also played a few mainstream currents in Buenos Aires, Argentina... and Argentina is really the southernmost nation in Europe, and not a good example of Latin America.

For some reason, non-coms seem to want to try to do Spanish language rock. They have, at least to now, never generated any support, and have disappeared for the most part. Hispanics who like alternative listen to KROQ. Hispanics who like classic rock listen to KLOS or The Sound, and people who like hip-hop have Power to tune to.

Footnote: the press release speaks of a kind of music called "Salsoul". There is no such thing. Salsoul is a radio network in Puerto Rico. It's all puffery.

 

[michael hagerty]

Okay, so KRTH has a cume of 30,000,000 and KCSN HD2 has a cume of seven people. Granted, I could have found a better comparison...but somebody besides me had an idea for a multi-genre Latino format so I feel slightly vindicated. And no, I've never used alcohol or marijuana or hallucinogens. I was a nice clean young man! I still am. Well...except for the "young" part.

On the subject of "viable '70s songs," don't you think KRTH plays a few, such as the Eagles' One Of These Nights, that are more suitable for a classic rock station than a classic hits station?

Not if their listeners tell them otherwise, no.

 

[Thomps2525]

David, remember the rumors in 2006 that KZLA was going to switch to a "Spanglish" format? It probably wouldn't have worked. (Of course the "Movin'" format didn't succeed either.) Maybe some of us are guilty of thinking that Hispanics and Latinos prefer Spanish-language music to English-language music. What is the ethnic makeup of KRTH's listening audience? As the growth in the Latino population has eclipsed growth among whites, has KRTH's Hispanic audience increased in percentage? And do you think the station needs to do anything special to attract Hispanic listeners? Do Hispanics generally like the same "classic hits" that whites like? Do you like me assigning so many essay questions?

 

[davideduardo]

but somebody besides me had an idea for a multi-genre Latino format so I feel slightly vindicated.

Country is a Latino genre? Christmas songs are a Latino genre?

KCSN HD-2 has a rock format, with some odd but understandable flavor elements. It is not truly multi-genre.

 

[davideduardo]

David, remember the rumors in 2006 that KZLA was going to switch to a "Spanglish" format?

"Spanglish" has been tried many times, and it ends up just sounding patronizing and has no appeal.

It probably wouldn't have worked.

One point for you.

Maybe some of us are guilty of thinking that Hispanics and Latinos prefer Spanish-language music to English-language music.

"Hispanic" is not a race or ethnicity. It is a cultural group with amazing diversity, ranging from Zapotec indians in Oaxaca to second-generation Argentines of German parentage. Or, as the Spanish saying goes, "20 countries divided by a single language".

Right now, in Mexico City, the CHR stations play as much as 80% English language hits. The EDM station plays, at least in my listening, nothing in Spanish... and it is top 10. Mix and Universal, the Top 10 ranked AC's, are all English music. In San Juan, the #1 station, KQ-105, is also 80% English music driven.

When I did CHR in Ecuador nearly 50 years ago, we played 40% Spanish language hits, and 60% English, French and Italian hits.

What is the ethnic makeup of KRTH's listening audience?

Over half Hispanic in the PPM years.

As the growth in the Latino population has eclipsed growth among whites,

About 90% of LA area Hispanics were classified as "white" in the 2010 Census ("Hispanic" is a Y/N question, separate from race).

has KRTH's Hispanic audience increased in percentage?

Not appreciably since PPM began. Any comparison with prior years is invalid as the methodologies are not the same.

And do you think the station needs to do anything special to attract Hispanic listeners?

Most depends on the type of music. You won't get Hispanic country fans in first or second generation, no matter how hard you try and you will piss off everyone else trying.

The best way to appeal to the masses is to play mass appeal hits in a specific format.

Do Hispanics generally like the same "classic hits" that whites like?

Depends where they grew up and their family listening as kids and all sorts of other things. Those who like old pop songs who grew up in Mexico or Latin America will not like the Beach Boys and country crossovers and hard-core r&b and, often, harder rock. They will like Creedence more than the Beatles, and will not attach negatives to Disco... and so on.

Those that grew up in the US... again depends on environment, peer group listening, etc. There is a reason why Art Laboe scores so well in SoCal and the Central Valley... he plays the classic hits for many Hispanics and quite a few non-Hispanic whites, too.

 

[semoochie]

I got to thinking about this statement: "25-54 is pretty much impossible to win by targeting 25 year olds or 54 year olds. You need to hit the center of the target and let the ripples spread out 10 years (if you're lucky) in either direction." This sounds like we're doing a 180 degree turn, from the idea that you focus on some subset of 25-54. Clearly, KIIS is not targeted directly at 40 year olds but has won many 25-54 crowns. Anything before 1962 is pretty vague for me and I'm 60, so taking myself as an example, I have to assume someone who's 40, has a comparable situation with 1982, certainly not any earlier. Logic would then dictate the best course of action as being songs from 1982(at the earliest)through the present BUT there's already a format doing that, AC. So, for Classic Hits, 1982 would still seem to be the starting point, so now what? It seems to me that if anything, since these 40 year olds actually grew up on their parents Oldies and not the mid to late 70s, it would make more sense to have songs from the Traditional Oldies format through 1972, skip the next decade and come back with 1982 and go through the present. They'd probably have to mostly skip the 90s too since apparently no one likes it.

 

[michael hagerty]

I got to thinking about this statement: "25-54 is pretty much impossible to win by targeting 25 year olds or 54 year olds. You need to hit the center of the target and let the ripples spread out 10 years (if you're lucky) in either direction." This sounds like we're doing a 180 degree turn, from the idea that you focus on some subset of 25-54. Clearly, KIIS is not targeted directly at 40 year olds but has won many 25-54 crowns. Anything before 1962 is pretty vague for me and I'm 60, so taking myself as an example, I have to assume someone who's 40, has a comparable situation with 1982, certainly not any earlier. Logic would then dictate the best course of action as being songs from 1982(at the earliest)through the present BUT there's already a format doing that, AC. So, for Classic Hits, 1982 would still seem to be the starting point, so now what? It seems to me that if anything, since these 40 year olds actually grew up on their parents Oldies and not the mid to late 70s, it would make more sense to have songs from the Traditional Oldies format through 1972, skip the next decade and come back with 1982 and go through the present. They'd probably have to mostly skip the 90s too since apparently no one likes it.

Semoochie:

KIIS aims 18-34. It is so well programmed, and hit music these days is so mass appeal, that they do well 25-54.

As for starting dates, it's a rough guideline at best...gives you a date at which a common experience in music is more likely among a given group of people. You can say "1982", but the heavily Hispanic 40-year-olds that listen to KRTH appear to like Santana's "Black Magic Woman" from 12 years earlier.

The average listener doesn't think about or care about the year of a song (the main reason you don't hear jocks say "from the summer of 1983" (or whatever) anymore. If you gave them sodium pentathol and a million dollars, they couldn't tell you who Joel Whitburn is.

They just love some songs, like others, will tolerate some more and will go see what else is on when anything else plays. And they have another subconscious list (they don't walk around thinking about it) for the AC station they listen to, the smooth jazz/R&B station they listen to, the Country station they listen to, the CHR they listen to, and so on.

So (and I won't say "stop me if I've said this before", because you'd have to stop me), the key to success is not to get hung up on calendars and ages-old charts that were largely bogus to begin with. It's to deliver on expectations. And you find out what those expectations are, and which ones are shared in common by the largest percentage of your desired listeners, by testing.

 

[Bob Hudson]

But the issue will soon be moot because I think KRTH will soon be 1970s-80s-90s the same as KOLA.

And after they blow out Shotgun, he can start doing pop-up video ads on the web, "Now from K-TEL dot com, all your favorite hits from the 70's, 80's and 90's in one big download, just 19.95!"

 

[davideduardo]

Semoochie:

So (and I won't say "stop me if I've said this before", because you'd have to stop me), the key to success is not to get hung up on calendars and ages-old charts that were largely bogus to begin with. It's to deliver on expectations. And you find out what those expectations are, and which ones are shared in common by the largest percentage of your desired listeners, by testing.

What tends to muddy the perceptual waters a bit is the way early Top 40's handled oldies.

In the first decade or so of rocking top 40's (from let's say '56 to the mid-60's), few if any oldies were played. So kids growing into adolescence on a diet of Top 40 only heard the most current songs.

As Drake and others introduced "goldens" to the playlists and were widely emulated across America, a young teen would be exposed to music several years older than just currents. But that gold tended to be very recent in any case.

But by the 70's, with CHRs trying to get 18-34's, particularly women, gold coverage went back more years.

So a classic hits stations targets 25-54. It's real core is going to be 35-54 or even 39-54. But those 40-somethings will have grown up in the era when CHR played loads of songs that covered the decade before their music awareness began, so many of those "old" songs were "currents" to kids of that era.

This makes dates even more fuzzy, as you say. What really matters is the answer to the question, "how much would you like to hear that song on the radio today?"

 

[semoochie]

Michael, I was actually thinking of years ago, when KIIS was delivering ten shares(at least once). They were so strong on the bottom end, it was enough to win 25-54. David, that's more like what I was thinking, to have an upper demo subset, like 40-54. It brings the average age more in line with the 70s. You have to admit that my previous comments were well thought out, if nothing else.

 

[michael hagerty]

Michael, I was actually thinking of years ago, when KIIS was delivering ten shares(at least once). They were so strong on the bottom end, it was enough to win 25-54. David, that's more like what I was thinking, to have an upper demo subset, like 40-54. It brings the average age more in line with the 70s. You have to admit that my previous comments were well thought out, if nothing else.

Semoochie:

Gotcha. But remember, those 10 shares for KIIS-FM were 30 years ago. It's like talking about 1953 then. A lot has changed...radio, music, competition, measurement and ethnic makeup are all radically different.

 

[oldies76]

Radio Rewind, Looks like KRTH has begun nipping the 1990's, this morning at 12:35am (when very few are listening anyways), "Remember the Time" by Michael Jackson aired. Thought you'd like to hear that. It also aired at 10:35pm the night before. So twice within 2 hours, the same song aired.

Glad to see that Starbuck's "Moonlight Feels Right" is getting more airplay....It's about time.

 

[Thomps2525]

KRTH played Remember The Time (from 1992) again at 4:30 pm today. That's three times in 18 hours...but at least it's something besides Brown Eyed Girl. KRTH also plays Black Or White from 1991. I heard two more songs today that were not on my list (which I posted at that other site): Funkytown by Lipps Inc. and I Wanna Be Your Lover by Prince. What do these additions portend?---the return of "Jammin' Oldies"?

 

[Bob Hudson]

What do these additions portend?---the return of "Jammin' Oldies"?

I don't think they brought in Rick Thomas just to do some minor tweaks: it's going to be a different radio station when he's done.