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The new ratings book's here!

raccoonradio

raccoonradio

The new phone book's--er, ratings book--here! http://www.radioandrecords.com

--Air America's WKOX and WXKS actually show up, if barely. WJIB holds steady (yes I can't give actual numbers, you'll have to see the page itself)

"Mike" --slight downtick. WEEI up due to Sox. 'RKO also up, despite rumors (here) that it was heading down. Celts move to 680 now official.

Oldies 103 steady.

WTKK gains almost as much as WRKO did.
WAMG went up (naturally)--hey, format change due but it does _better_ in the book before the change (to ESPN, next month)
 
It's only trends...

Just the phase 2 trends.

Not the book.
 
> WXKS-AM is still listed as Adult Standards, though WKOX is
> listed as Talk. What's up with that?
>

Where do you see that?
 
> > WXKS-AM is still listed as Adult Standards, though WKOX is
>
> > listed as Talk. What's up with that?
> >
>
> Where do you see that?
>

Radio and Records. They make quite a few mistakes with formats. In the Des Moines market they list KCCQ-FM as news/talk, a format the station has never had. It's actually alternative.
 
Re: It's only trends...

> Just the phase 2 trends.
>
> Not the book.
>
He said with a huge sigh of relief!

Lol
 
Raccoon is gleeful, but doing some Republican-speak by trying to pass off the trends as the book. What these "ratings" show is what we already know - the bigger the AM signal, the better chance of getting a good showing.

LLH, ZID, FNQ, NNW, ZID certainly don't have the "buzz" that 1430 has, nor do I believe they have the actual "ratings". We all know the system was bad and has gotten worse - but radio holds onto this meter without finding something better.

Air America/Jones radio has a steady stream of listeners - more people discuss the topics they hear on AM 1430 than what they heard on CTK Country or WAMG for that matter. Which shows how off base this material is. What is "Tropical" music? Where is WBNW? (now that's a rhetorical question)

I love WJIB, but does anyone really think WILD is almost tied with WJIB?
WILD has a core audience, is an institution, has consistently put a good product on the airwaves, should easily be above WAAF, a Worcester/ "Boston" signal. MIKE FM is getting a buzz beyond people who read this board - that isn't accurately reflected in the "trend" -

and how do these trends work? By phone? Aren't the actual books collected every quarter? Is it the people who have a book checking in for the "trends"?






> > > WXKS-AM is still listed as Adult Standards, though WKOX
> is
> >
> > > listed as Talk. What's up with that?
> > >
> >
> > Where do you see that?
> >
>
> Radio and Records. They make quite a few mistakes with
> formats. In the Des Moines market they list KCCQ-FM as
> news/talk, a format the station has never had. It's
> actually alternative.
>
 
Re: It's only trends...

> Just the phase 2 trends.
>
> Not the book.
>
True, and I guess there will be a comprehensive book out next month for the whole period.
 
> > The new phone book's--er, ratings book--here!
> > http://www.radioandrecords.com
> >
> > --Air America's WKOX and WXKS actually show up, if barely.
>
>
> WXKS-AM is still listed as Adult Standards, though WKOX is
> listed as Talk. What's up with that?
>
It should say "Talk" and among the disclaimers at the bottom it should say:

WXKS (AM) was Adult Standards until 10/4/04
WKOX was Spanish/Religion until on 10/4/04

This way a previous format (like WMKK pre-"Mike") can be compared with the new one, numbers-wise.
 
> > WXKS-AM is still listed as Adult Standards, though WKOX is
>
> > listed as Talk. What's up with that?
> >
>
> Where do you see that?
>
On the Radio and Records ratings page it says:
"WXKS-AM---Clear Channel--Adult Standards--(numbers I'm not supposed to repeat)"
 
> Raccoon is gleeful, but doing some Republican-speak by
> trying to pass off the trends as the book.

I do acknowledge that it's a trend...'RKO, highest ratings I can remember, too--
but yeah, it's a trend. At least it's trending up. btw am a
registered Independent ("Unenrolled") who votes for mostly conservative candidates,
not a member of either party. This way I don't get junk mail from
Howard Dean, Hillary, Ken Mehlman (RNC Chair), Romney, etc.

> Air America/Jones radio has a steady stream of listeners -
> more people discuss the topics they hear on AM 1430 than
> what they heard on CTK Country or WAMG for that matter.

And still more discuss the topics heard on 680, 1030, and 96.9
 
> Raccoon is gleeful, but doing some Republican-speak by
> trying to pass off the trends as the book. What these
> "ratings" show is what we already know - the bigger the AM
> signal, the better chance of getting a good showing.
>
> LLH, ZID, FNQ, NNW, ZID certainly don't have the "buzz" that
> 1430 has, nor do I believe they have the actual "ratings".
> We all know the system was bad and has gotten worse - but
> radio holds onto this meter without finding something
> better.
>
> Air America/Jones radio has a steady stream of listeners -
> more people discuss the topics they hear on AM 1430 than
> what they heard on CTK Country or WAMG for that matter.
> Which shows how off base this material is. What is
> "Tropical" music? Where is WBNW? (now that's a rhetorical
> question)
>
> I love WJIB, but does anyone really think WILD is almost
> tied with WJIB?
> WILD has a core audience, is an institution, has
> consistently put a good product on the airwaves, should
> easily be above WAAF, a Worcester/ "Boston" signal. MIKE FM
> is getting a buzz beyond people who read this board - that
> isn't accurately reflected in the "trend" -
>
> and how do these trends work? By phone? Aren't the actual
> books collected every quarter? Is it the people who have a
> book checking in for the "trends"?
>
>
> How is wild an am daytimer going to be above waaf? a station that even though it's a worcester station still has a core audience near 500,000? which is easily twice that of wild?.

For someone who loves to talk about ratings so much for you to ask how do they work says it all.

They work like this: There is a telephone survey, there are still actual Diaries where participants are asked to write down what they listen to as well. But part of the problem is that many people do not have home phones or land lines anymore, they just live off of their cell phones. So when arbitron calls back to try to collect information, or to remind folks to turn in their diaries, they're not geting that many responses because many people do not have a phone to call and they dont as a rule deal with cell phones. This is a very broad stroke explaination but it's essentially the basic issue.
>
>
>
> > > > WXKS-AM is still listed as Adult Standards, though
> WKOX
> > is
> > >
> > > > listed as Talk. What's up with that?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Where do you see that?
> > >
> >
> > Radio and Records. They make quite a few mistakes with
> > formats. In the Des Moines market they list KCCQ-FM as
> > news/talk, a format the station has never had. It's
> > actually alternative.
> >
>
 
> > Raccoon is gleeful, but doing some Republican-speak by
> > trying to pass off the trends as the book.
>
> I do acknowledge that it's a trend...'RKO, highest ratings I
> can remember, too--
> but yeah, it's a trend. At least it's trending up. btw am a
> registered Independent ("Unenrolled") who votes for mostly
> conservative candidates,
> not a member of either party. This way I don't get junk mail
> from
> Howard Dean, Hillary, Ken Mehlman (RNC Chair), Romney, etc.
>
> > Air America/Jones radio has a steady stream of listeners -
>
> > more people discuss the topics they hear on AM 1430 than
> > what they heard on CTK Country or WAMG for that matter.
>
> And still more discuss the topics heard on 680, 1030, and
> 96.9
>
Knowing what we all know about the 12+, why does Raccoon go through this exercise every time Arbitron posts an update? If you actually believe Raccoon is anything but a conservative, just search on freerepublic and see that many of the AAR posting related to distorting the 12+ ratings have come from raccoon...

Millenium is right, conservatives or conservative "independents" like Racoon keep posting this stuff like its the end all be all in ratings. Its false because no AAR station will be flipped away from liberal talk based on 12+ ratings....there was a posting to show how bad the signal was with WXKS/WKOX and how hard it is to actually power up the two stations....until a solution appears, I believe strongly that these stations will not be able to make a strong impact in the city. People like Raccoon dont take into account that many of the people listening to WXKS are probably streaming...and the word of mouth for the station is positive and strong....i wouldn't complain if these guys like
Raccoon weren't RADIO people, they know whats up with 12+, they know the signal problem, they know what it takes to flip a station, yet...its help the uninformed stay uninformed....why is that necessary Raccoon?
 
I wanted to mention an example of a station that meets the example of low 12+, but successful station.....look at KNX Los Angeles...this station is an all news station that was very popular at times and is now languishing in the 12+ BUT is very lucrative in ad revenue, and is more of less known by word of mouth, but the 12+ has never been very good in recent times....i have a strong feeling that due to the vast advantage conservative talk radio has for the moment that AAR wont draw in high 12+ but will continue to do well in the demographics and seell ads based on its ability to lower the age of the general listner...and AAR is definately lowering the listner age.



> Knowing what we all know about the 12+, why does Raccoon go
> through this exercise every time Arbitron posts an update?
> If you actually believe Raccoon is anything but a
> conservative, just search on freerepublic and see that many
> of the AAR posting related to distorting the 12+ ratings
> have come from raccoon...
>
> Millenium is right, conservatives or conservative
> "independents" like Racoon keep posting this stuff like its
> the end all be all in ratings. Its false because no AAR
> station will be flipped away from liberal talk based on 12+
> ratings....there was a posting to show how bad the signal
> was with WXKS/WKOX and how hard it is to actually power up
> the two stations....until a solution appears, I believe
> strongly that these stations will not be able to make a
> strong impact in the city. People like Raccoon dont take
> into account that many of the people listening to WXKS are
> probably streaming...and the word of mouth for the station
> is positive and strong....i wouldn't complain if these guys
> like
> Raccoon weren't RADIO people, they know whats up with 12+,
> they know the signal problem, they know what it takes to
> flip a station, yet...its help the uninformed stay
> uninformed....why is that necessary Raccoon?
>
 
Response to Raccoon and Frish

> And still more discuss the topics heard on 680, 1030, and
> 96.9
>

SEE ABOVE, Raccoon - as I stated, the bigger stations get more listeners by virtue of the fact that they come in loud and clear. People don't like to hear static (though many of the Conservative stations are sounding like static despite the big signals)


And to respond to Frish:

It was rhetorical, Frish. But I'm man enough to admit that I (like many of us) do not know the day to day workings of
Arbitron/Nielsen/Soundscan/Polls etc. etc. etc.

How they work day in and day out - every day of the week.

Methinks what we are told is distinctly different from what we are being fed
with the "actual" numbers.

But I thank you for your insight.

and by the way - the system is broke and they don't know how to fix it. But people have already expressed that sentiment.


MILLENIUM SPOKE THUS:
isn't accurately reflected in the "trend" -
> > and how do these trends work? By phone? Aren't the
> actual > books collected every quarter?

Is it ( are the phone calls) to the people who have > a book checking in for the "trends"?
> >
>




FRISH SAYETH:
> For someone who loves to talk about ratings so much for you
> to ask how do they work says it all.
>
> They work like this: There is a telephone survey, there are
> still actual Diaries where participants are asked to write
> down what they listen to as well. But part of the problem is
> that many people do not have home phones or land lines
> anymore, they just live off of their cell phones. So when
> arbitron calls back to try to collect information, or to
> remind folks to turn in their diaries, they're not geting
> that many responses because many people do not have a phone
> to call and they dont as a rule deal with cell phones. This
> is a very broad stroke explaination but it's essentially the
> basic issue.
> >

>
 
Re: The new trend is here! 12+ ratings mean what?

> I wanted to mention an example of a station that meets the
> example of low 12+, but successful station.....look at KNX
> Los Angeles...this station is an all news station that was
> very popular at times and is now languishing in the 12+ BUT
> is very lucrative in ad revenue, and is more of less known
> by word of mouth, but the 12+ has never been very good
> > Knowing what we all know about the 12+, why does Raccoon
> go through this exercise every time Arbitron posts an update?

Well, here in Boston, our #1 station 12+ is WBZ (AM) news/talk. Has been like that for quite awhile now. Sure there are successful stations that have poor 12+ numbers but usually when you break out the demographics they have high numbers in their target audience. I've seen stations with poor or low numbers 12+ sell out their spots because of the salespeople and the GM.

Some smaller stations don't even subscribe to the ratings or can't afford them and still can make a tidy profit. It's nice to have great programming but even more important can be the right salespeople. You know the kind, they can sell anything to anybody. Too often I see great stations (in major market) with a sales force from outer space. They don't even know the station personalities or special programs.

> If you actually believe Raccoon is anything but a
> > conservative, just search on freerepublic and see that many
> > of the AAR posting related to distorting the 12+ ratings
> > have come from raccoon...

Uhhhh, Should I care? why are we talking about some forum users politics or posting habits? That may promote more of the same. it ain't about radio so let's not add it to the discussion.

-----<P ID="signature">______________
Mark Coney</P>
 
Re: It's only trends...

> > Just the phase 2 trends.
> >
> > Not the book.
> >
> He said with a huge sigh of relief!
>
> Lol
>

Nah. I just want to see when I get paid yo!

PS...there is some sighing going on in the city though. Unless some people have monster 3rd phases....heads will roll before the fall book.
 
Re: The new trend is here! 12+ ratings mean what?

> Well, here in Boston, our #1 station 12+ is WBZ (AM)
> news/talk. Has been like that for quite awhile now. Sure
> there are successful stations that have poor 12+ numbers but
> usually when you break out the demographics they have high
> numbers in their target audience. I've seen stations with
> poor or low numbers 12+ sell out their spots because of the
> salespeople and the GM.

Let's look at a fact or two.

1. 12+ is the total rating of a station.
2. Most stations are niched formatted to certain demos, and therefore disregard other demos that contribute to the 12+ rating.
3. Depending on the returns, 1 diary can skew the 12+ rating a disgusting amount.

12+ numbers are a misnomer. If your station is last in every demo but the targeted demo, nobody cares. You secured what you targeted. The other numbers are just gravy.

Which begs the question...Is there such a demo as 18-54? Does that guy born in 1951 share the same listening habits as the kid from 1987?

Arbitron is a joke. But it apparently has enough lobbying power to remain the dominant barometer of ratings.

And that's from someone who's benefited from it's inaccuracy.

I submit the WERS example again. Does anyone really believe that Emerson College is the most listened to radio station in Boston among any demo after 7PM?

As great as that station sounds, there's no way it out-cumes everything else out there. It's just impossible.But one diary in one certain demo can make it so. And that screws with those other stations who might be targeting that demo for their 3rd quarter revenues.

So, 12+ numbers are grossly distorted when related to a station's overall performance.

How do we fix it?
 
Re: The new trend is here! 12+ ratings mean what?

And I have always claimed & always will that the more you have to extrapolate,the worse you're really doing. I'm not talking about the obvious cases where a station targets a demo & does well there,but the ones who tweak the numbers to find some group they're strong in then touts winning in that demo. I also blame media buyers for knowing less than they should.
 
Re: The new trend is here! 12+ ratings mean what?

> And I have always claimed & always will that the more you
> have to extrapolate,the worse you're really doing. I'm not
> talking about the obvious cases where a station targets a
> demo & does well there,but the ones who tweak the numbers to
> find some group they're strong in then touts winning in that
> demo. I also blame media buyers for knowing less than they
> should.

Yeah...but you gotta love when a media buyer uses a station's "anomaly" book to drive rates down for that year.
 
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