The New York Dance Music Coalition "Refocus"

[TonySantiago]

I wrote this on the NYDMC Facebook group account,

I'm really not seeking opinions on this. It's just time that positivity comes back to dance music and our cause. With that, I felt a refocus is in order. Here's my blog....

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When I started the coalition 15 years ago, I did it as a positive movement where we would all join together as "one" to get a dance music oriented station back on the FM dial. I have always believed that dance music can be financially viable just as long as there was exposure.

The events over the last 24 hours, and really through the past couple of weeks, has shown me another side, one that I personally hated being in the middle of as well as seeing anger all around. The coalition was NOT built to be a negative function, nor was it meant to show others that we are a bunch of "crazy dance fans". Yet somehow, it branched into that.

I did a lot of thinking over these hours and feel that it is best to do a refocus on the NYDMC. We need to get the positivity and respect back again. We're just going to do it in a different fashion.

1. While having a terrestrial FM radio station in New York playing our brand of dance music would be nice, that is NO LONGER the priority of the coalition. We'll still push for one, but it's not the end of the world if we don't have an FM station playing dance, the way we want it, ever again.

2. As a dance music community, we MUST move forward with the emerging technologies that is upon us. Our shift on the music will be geared towards the Internet streaming stations and satellite radio...offering FULL support, no bashing or dissing whatsoever.

3. I need to also focus on issues regarding the cabaret laws here in NYC. It is amazing that a city "that never sleeps" has cabaret laws that are similar to the movie "Footloose". We need to take the bull by the horns and work on these laws for the sake of building the economy up for NYC.

4. Because of the bitterness and hurt feelings I have seen, while I certainly want camaraderie in terms of the fans to be supportive, I also feel that in many cases I have to work alone with this. I do not want other people's "agendas" interfering with our cause. While I want to hear everyone's opinions on things, I just think it may be best that I just do things in some cases as "solo", taking into account what people are feeling. I don't want things to be distorted.

5. We would also like to get our name OUT THERE in events as well as publicity, something that has been rather limited in terms of what we had done prior. We need to show the media our new "brand" and not what had happened within the past few months or so.

6. Education has to happen. We need to put the music back into the forefront of this and continually support our artists. That means hearing them and requesting them on Internet stations, BUYING the material, working with each other to learn more about emerging technologies. In that sense, we are in a good position to all become the leaders in terms of the future of broadcasting and the financial viability of dance music as a whole.

I had napped on this, really thinking about things. We need to get that positivity back again. It never left me but at the same time, seeing what has happened, it caught me in a place that I NEVER want to be in again.

Welcome to the "NEW" New York Dance Music Coalition! We still need your support but we all need to be positive as well.

Thank you,
TONY SANTIAGO
Coordinator
New York Dance Music Coalition

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I will probably be posting a lot LESS in here. I have to look at things from a different angle and a message board may not necessarily be the way to do that, especially if people ARE going to twist things to their own agenda. Many times I may be working on a project alone, but for the sake of all of us, not just my own thing.

Anyway, here it is.

Thank you.
TS

 

[CHRles]

Great post Tony! You hit some really valid points, and I applaud you for your efforts.
Keep me updated as you continue to push things forward

 

[TonySantiago]

Thank you CHRles.

Things have to change for the better. That's what the dance music community (not just in New York but the country) has to do. It's time to be that "leader" in that sense of the word and continue a positive path

 

[TonySantiago]

I have to bump this.

I wrote this exactly around this time last year. Looking back at what I've written, most of what I had said still holds strong today. So looking back on that thread, I am going to revisit this....

1). I would now actually want a station to return, but I am thinking along the lines of 2012 or 2013. I'll explain further.

2). Still the same.

3). Still the same.

4). Now, it is in the best interest that I GET PEOPLE who are as passionate as I am to work along with me. But to that I have to be selective in that sense. There are many people out there who will say "yes, yes, I'll help you." but when it comes time for those folks to "step up to the plate", they either forget who you are or say that they can't. I can't have those type of folks for what I am doing, which is now about actually structuring the coalition to include chapter presidents, liaisons (club, press, digital media, etc.). I have already appointed 2 chapter presidents and an artist to represent the interests of house music. I will be appointing more along the way but to that I am looking for the most passionate people for this....not those that want to just "jump on the bandwagon" thinking that "hey it's cool I'm with this" and not actually doing anything to help the cause.

5). We are working on projects right now to get our name further and along the way be taken more seriously. I've become more serious in that aspect as of late. A website is in the works.

6). Still the same.

TO ADD:

This really has more to do with the education aspect of things. So if things are going to favor dance music for years to come, there has to be a change within ourselves to get rid of what has been "ugly" in our community and become more supportive all around. That "ugliness" has to do with the egos that has permeated our community for all these years in regards to being "elitist", "egotistical" and "non-conformist" (thank you Morpheux because that really hit it home when you said this on another thread) and thumbing our nose down at those that may not understand dance music or for us to be quick to call someone "ignorant" when in reality a person may NOT know and in effect we lose a potential dance fan because of it.

You can point to anyone out there as the source of the problem, but then there is the saying that when you point the finger at someone, 3 point back at you. And that is the gist of it all, myself included. The best example on me was when 'KTU (in New York) launched in 1996 and I was VERY critical for them playing more older dance material and very little new. Okay, I was 29 then and there was a lot of growing up and learning that I had to do. While my comments didn't ruin 'KTU they were also very hypercritical at best and looking back, I was wrong to have gone there.

This time around, it is HIGH time the dance music community drop their "egos" and become supportive of what has been going on as of late. I'm not telling anyone to start running out and purchase Rihanna or Usher if you don't like them, but if what they are doing on our side is garnering more people to take a listen since they are "names" in the music industry then for the dance music community we MUST be supportive of them and other artists who are coming over and more importantly RESPECTING our music.

DJ's, you have an even GREATER responsibility since you ARE the ones on the "firing line" in the clubs to pump the music and keep the floor packed. And I have to say that 90% of you that I've met have been cool. Though that means there are 10% of you that do come off with an ego and feel as if what you are doing is "high and mighty" and that the fans really don't matter so as long as YOUR name matters and that people should be "kissing" to that. Now, I am ALL for confidence in regard to one's mixing skills, personna, etc. But when that confidence crosses over to that thin line of "arrogance" and the fans that attend an event feel that, it turns off more than attracts. We can't afford that. I'm not saying that now we have to "coddle" people but at the very least become the "educators" that you are in terms of getting the music out there and HELP those who may not know. More often than not, we think of people as "ignorant" but not that someone really doesn't know something. Because if we can approach that person in a "mentor" manner, that could be a potential fan in the making.

And to the fans...STOP DISSING POP REMIXES! Stop this "my music is better than yours" crap. Pop mixes have come a long way! And if a Dave Aude, Moto Blanco, Bimbo Jones, Jason Nevins can do quality material that helps the pop/R&B artist gain acceptance amongst the dance music side, then we have to, at the very least, embrace this. DO REMEMBER, Kelly Rowland started out with Destiny's Child, an R&B group...yet we have accepted her into the dance music fold thanks to David Guetta. Deborah Cox is an R&B artist as well, but with the dance remixes that came out for her, she has been accepted into our fold. This is the time where we, as a community, have to loosen our collar and become more supportive for artists doing pop/R&B/rhythmic remixes because once that happens, can dance music get to that level that we were during the late 80's and early 90's where there were stations throughout the country that played dance on a regular basis.

Thank you,
TS

 

[TonySantiago]

In what's turning into the "State Of The Coalition" address each year at this time, lol, my coordinator Millie refreshed me back to this thread, which was originally written 2 years ago. So with that, let's see what has gone on since....

1. While we still don't have a current based dance station in New York City and lost one to an extent in Long Island, we DID gain an outlet in the Hudson Valley with Drive FX (New Windsor, NY). Even though the station has been around on HD for approx. 3 years, it's presence on the terrestrial side (94.1, 95.7) has recently come up with many people in the region tuning in.

2. Technology continues to grow. More people are tuning in to stations via sources such as Live365, Tuned In Radio through their smartphones; downloading apps and using the aux port to hear the station in cars. It's still a few years away before streaming car stereos become standard but it will take a company to start up such a service (similar to cable) where you would purchase an unlimited streaming plan per month for your car stereo and tune in to such stations (as 5G/6G emerge).

3. I honestly think the cabaret laws of New York City CAN change once a new mayor is in office and the media stops "stereotyping" dance clubs as this "haven of danger" where drugs are rampant and people get killed in there. There may be incidents in smaller lounges here and there but the BIG clubs are well secure and can handle things before they get out of hand. As long as security continues to be strong, big clubs can and SHOULD be allowed to open in a "zone" (To me it would be anywhere between 23rd - 28th Streets west of 10th Avenue, where it is industrial during the day.

4. More than ever, I really have a mistrust based on someone that I thought I could count on. This year we've opened a South Florida version of the coalition and had this person run it. Apparently the person and I had issues and when I was locked out of the group FB, he did not want to give the board back. As such we did a change there and the coalition is now known as the "New York Dance Music Coalition - South Florida Chapter". At this point I really have to protect myself legally here based on what had happened. It may take a bit, but for all purposes, I can't afford to allow someone to help and they screw around like this.

5. Today, we released a new logo for the New York coalition. We've also had interviews from some folks as well. This year we have an event that we're co-sponsoring down in Miami for the Winter Music Conference. We also plan on speaking with more folks in the music industry media as well. Things are beginning to look good there.

6. Regarding education, I always say something at the end of my show...."DANCE MUSIC, Live It, Love It, Buy It". It is still important to go to the online stores and purchase dance material and not just download them off a site. Artists, producers and DJ's do bust their butts in the studios to create their tracks and for us, we have to support so as to continually show our strength.

There are still issues going on with the acceptance of the commercial pop/rhythmic tracks as dance (such as Rihanna, Flo Rida, Pitbull, etc). And as I had said, for the casual fans to come over to the core side, we have to let them accept this and along the way, educate them to more. To that, I still stay....DO NOT DISS POP TRACKS. If anything, dance has become "pop" of sorts. If things can grow that way, then perhaps we can start seeing more dance stations in our brand come along. The explosive rise of EDM over the past year proves that the crowd is craving for more. Love or hate dubstep, the music has become viable. I think alternative stations should hop on dubstep RIGHT NOW, if they haven't done so already.

This past year has been an emergence for dance music. A good one. It may eventually come down to the major corporations bringing in dance/rhythmic formats again. But once again...ACCEPT THE COMMERCIAL ASPECT because we really need them in order to push our brand further.

Thank you,
TS

 

[JayR]

3. I honestly think the cabaret laws of New York City CAN change once a new mayor is in office and the media stops "stereotyping" dance clubs as this "haven of danger" where drugs are rampant and people get killed in there. There may be incidents in smaller lounges here and there but the BIG clubs are well secure and can handle things before they get out of hand. As long as security continues to be strong, big clubs can and SHOULD be allowed to open in a "zone"...

This is what essentially caused the late 90s dance music scene in central Florida and the Tampa Bay area to come to a halt (it doesn't mean there isn't a dance scene now; I'm just saying it's just not the same...too many regulations now).

 

[Wildstyle K]

4. Because of the bitterness and hurt feelings I have seen, while I certainly want camaraderie in terms of the fans to be supportive, I also feel that in many cases I have to work alone with this. I do not want other people's "agendas" interfering with our cause. While I want to hear everyone's opinions on things, I just think it may be best that I just do things in some cases as "solo", taking into account what people are feeling. I don't want things to be distorted.

I just got done writing something in the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention page, and I think my message here will be similar, but much shorter.

It's plain and simple --> You cannot save everybody, you cannot fix everything, you cannot fix anything or anyone you do not understand, and sometimes you just have to let things be as they are. That's the simple reality.

While I understand that this is a true, deep, passion for dance music, I believe the amount of work it would take to convince everyone to get along (in the dance music community) is just unrealistically impossible. In some ways, all this sounds somewhat similar to people saying "lets make world peace" or "we've got to save the world / end all wars". It wont happen. It cannot happen. People love to fight by nature, things are the way they are, and that's just the way it is.

While I appreciate the positivity, I've come to the realization that trying to "make" people get along is a long uphill battle that can never be won.. for a variety of reasons. I remember seeing somewhere within the message that you said you "have to refocus" the coalition, or something of that nature. Been there, done that. You know how many times I've "refocused" or tried to manipulate or tweak ideas and things with the hopes that I could save or change something... and then had to "refocus" again when nothing really changed?

I'm not saying to stop because we all need a leader who's willing to attempt to make a difference in all areas of life, but.... unity in the dance music scene? I don't know. It seems too far fetched at the moment. One thing for sure is you can absolutely and surely forget about it happening in the freestyle community.

Me personally, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the dance music ride as long as it lasts because.. well, that's pretty much all I can do - if I want to enjoy it now while I still have the chance. I don't want to look back with regrets and think "I should've spent more time actually enjoying and feeling the music rather than paying attention to other folks.."

By learning from mistakes (mostly other people's mistakes), I've discovered that sometimes running solo is the best way to go. "You can either you ride with me or be 'left behind'" is my motto. Either way, I'll keep doing what I love and as long as I'm at least happy, then that's all that matters. Anything I do or produce for free is something I personally and truly enjoy to the fullest, regardless of whether or not I share it.

I've even pretty much discontinued forum posting (except for two places), even including the UK Garage forums since people can't seem to get along there either. I'm just going to do what I do independently, enjoy it, and leave it up to everyone else to decide whether they want to follow along and be a part of it or not. As a matter of fact, I'm going to start a process of elimination where anything that distracts me with an unnecessarily high level of drama, fighting, and bickering, or takes my focus away from what I enjoy doing, I will eliminate it from (all, or as many areas as possible of) my life. What I don't know can't hurt me.

Anyway, that's just my view on things at the moment.

But keep up the good work. SOMEBODY has to continue to speak up and say things and attempt to make a difference. Besides, I don't think negativity or fighting within the dance community is going to stop or change anything on a larger musical scale. The music will still go on. The general public is still going to remain completely unaware of the fighting and support whatever they like, regardless of if it's produced by David Guetta, Calvin Harris, Red One, or... Timbaland. However, once the dance trend ends, then... we might have a bit of a problem when it comes to being in the mainstream spotlight if we don't get it together. I remember back before I knew there were any fights in the dance music community; I didn't care what was pop or real dance...etc. - all I knew was I loved the music (and what I didn't know didn't hurt me.... see?).

 

[TonySantiago]

KDM, believe me, I TOTALLY hear you on this.

I'm not trying to MAKE people get along. There have been TOO many stories within the industry about one backstabbing or another. I've certainly gotten my fair share of that, believe me, even just recently when someone locked me out of a FB board that I created and "took over" the South Florida version of the coalition. I did a new board, renamed it and associated it directly to the New York Dance Music Coalition and that has been a bigger success.

At the very least all I want for everyone is to work "together" and even if there are differences, to brush them aside for the sake of positivity and growth of the music because you are right, we will never ever achieve a situation where everyone gets along, but at least put the differences and politics aside, concentrate on the music and get the masses to continue supporting it. Some may get that. Some will NEVER get it. And if you don't want to be friends after that, so be it but so as long as the music prospers.

Even for myself, this is something that I have to "practice what I preach" with because in the past on FB and Radio-Info, I've definitely flipped my temper out on a couple of people that I no longer associate with...only because I thought they were being more detrimental to the music than helping. However if any of those people post something that makes sense then I will support the thought, even if I no longer support the person saying it. On top of that, I will give credit to that person for saying it.

I'm going to keep doing what I am doing because, at the very least, I feel that we're trying to do something good and, perhaps by example, do things right by the dance music community. I love all of us, and even the haters, yes...I love them too. I'll give an artist and DJ a chance on my show.....that is my "conduit" of good because I do want everyone to get that opportunity to succeed. I hate the ignorance from those that hate dance, which is one thing I try to squash like a roach.

The politics are always going to be there as well as the backstabbing. And it's not just the dance music industry. But it was part of that last sentence you wrote that does concern me....

"However, once the dance trend ends, then... we might have a bit of a problem when it comes to being in the mainstream spotlight if we don't get it together."

And that's what scares me. We're seeing the arguments now about mainstream vs. core as more rhythmic artists are crossing over. I realize that there are more of the "casual" listeners than core. And from the core side, instead of dissing them we have to WELCOME them. Because once we do so in a positive light, then we can enlighten them on the deeper sounds and perhaps they'll be open to it.

Thank you K

 

[Wildstyle K]

Even for myself, this is something that I have to "practice what I preach" with because in the past on FB and Radio-Info, I've definitely flipped my temper out on a couple of people that I no longer associate with...only because I thought they were being more detrimental to the music than helping.  However if any of those people post something that makes sense then I will support the thought, even if I no longer support the person saying it.  On top of that, I will give credit to that person for saying it.



I'm going to keep doing what I am doing because, at the very least, I feel that we're trying to do something good and, perhaps by example, do things right by the dance music community.  I love all of us, and even the haters, yes...I love them too.  I'll give an artist and DJ a chance on my show.....that is my "conduit" of good because I do want everyone to get that opportunity to succeed.  I hate the ignorance from those that hate dance, which is one thing I try to squash like a roach.

The politics are always going to be there as well as the backstabbing.  And it's not just the dance music industry.  But it was part of that last sentence you wrote that does concern me....

"However, once the dance trend ends, then... we might have a bit of a problem when it comes to being in the mainstream spotlight if we don't get it together."

And that's what scares me.  We're seeing the arguments now about mainstream vs. core as more rhythmic artists are crossing over.  I realize that there are more of the "casual" listeners than core.  And from the core side, instead of dissing them we have to WELCOME them.  Because once we do so in a positive light, then we can enlighten them on the deeper sounds and perhaps they'll be open to it.

Thank you K

Alright, so I accidentally hit "Post" prematurely, and I know I wont have enough time to edit and say all that I have to say before my edit time runs out, but there are three specific things I want to respond to within what I quoted above and I will post a whole new reply under this one to do so.

 

[Wildstyle K]

The politics are always going to be there as well as the backstabbing. And it's not just the dance music industry. But it was part of that last sentence you wrote that does concern me....

"However, once the dance trend ends, then... we might have a bit of a problem when it comes to being in the mainstream spotlight if we don't get it together."

And that's what scares me. We're seeing the arguments now about mainstream vs. core as more rhythmic artists are crossing over. I realize that there are more of the "casual" listeners than core. And from the core side, instead of dissing them we have to WELCOME them. Because once we do so in a positive light, then we can enlighten them on the deeper sounds and perhaps they'll be open to it.

Well, those arguments are sort of becoming lesser and lesser important as mainstream artists seemingly continue to get harder and harder with the sound (as they start singing on harder, more puristic dance instrumentals). Have you heard the latest from Chris Brown? If we never knew Chris Brown or Rihanna as pop artists before and heard their latest stuff for the first time today, we would've sworn they were right "up there" with Nadia Ali, Avicii, Edward Maya, and Calvin Harris...etc. If we only heard "where them girls at" and "turn me on" by Nicki Minaj and didn't know Nicki Minaj as hip hop and pop, she'd easily sound like a "pure unique dance artist" who also does other things instead of vice versa. Things like "without you" by Usher sound pretty real, although it's mainstream, and if Lmfao weren't top 40, they would sound straight up electro dance, the same way "forever" by Wolfgang Gartner ft Will.I.Am sounds. I'm sure a lot of these songs and artists sounded rather out of place on top 40 radio when they first crossed over, but now we got used to them, so they sound very soft now. Remember how "Saxobeat" used to sound? Does anyone even think Edward Maya's "Stereo love" sounds pure anymore? It really doesn't "touch me" much anymore when I hear it on chr - sounds just like another pop song now, and even Nadia Ali's "pressure" sounds harder than "Saxobeat" and "Stereo love". So, these arguments on what is real dance and what shouldn't be... I'm not too sure how much merit they'll continue to hold as time proceeds and things get harder, but I doubt those type of arguments will ever go away as long as poorly done dance pop continues to be released along with the better dance pop material, making it all look bad as a whole. I guess the problem that remains is the fact that the pop gone dance artists are "stealing" the spotlight away from the more established dance artists, so what may end up happening is dance may eventually become Rihanna, Chris Brown, Pitbull, Lmfao...etc. while new pop artists emerge and start doing other things.

 

[Saladressing]

dance may eventually become Rihanna, Chris Brown, Pitbull, Lmfao...etc. while new pop artists emerge and start doing other things.

And when that happens, the artists you mention here will likely attempt to co-opt THAT new sound, while the pure dance artists will continue making dance music.

 

[Wildstyle K]

dance may eventually become Rihanna, Chris Brown, Pitbull, Lmfao...etc. while new pop artists emerge and start doing other things.

And when that happens, the artists you mention here will likely attempt to co-opt THAT new sound, while the pure dance artists will continue making dance music.

And then they'll probably all merge together as one, kind of like how US Airways and America West Airlines did, so maybe it's a good thing. Then the other pop dance artists who are less serious about the entire sound who tend to put out the silly records may go off and follow whatever trend follows, leaving only the best ones I mentioned above to help the dance sound continue on with the pure dance artists.

Or maybe all that is just wishful thinking.

Not sure if I'd include LMFAO into someone who'll eventually help and blend in with the "pure dance" sound, but... I guess they couldn't do anymore harm than what Sak Noel or Duck Sauce have done (which didn't really hurt anything to begin with). Only real difference is that LMFAO fills up their songs with a lot more lyrical words.

Pitbull definitely has his place in the dance music scene. He may not necessarily sing, but he knows exactly what he's doing and how to do things when it comes to the electronic scene. The moment he saw dance music beginning to come back, he didn't waste any time. He jumped RIGHT INTO it and didn't really even look back! While most hip hop, pop, and dance artists started delivering slow pop albums with SOME dance songs on it just to have a few hits that kept up with trends, Pitbull's albums noticeably turned heavily dance very abruptly - almost about 80-90% dance productions on an album. It's actually kind of funny now that I think of it. Imagine it this way; He's sitting in a room with hip hop friends doing hip hop things, then next thing you know some guy comes in the room to announce "yo we got some dance over here in this other room now." and Pitbull immediately drops everything he was doing, jumps up, and walks out like "See ya - I'm out".

Black Eyed Peas also know what they are doing as well. Maybe they have their own, new, unique style sound that the dance community isn't yet fully used to, and maybe they don't sing like Jenna Drey or Danielle Bollinger, but they are serious. I think rapping is just going to be a new thing we'll have to accept within the dance community. It's not like La Bouche, Captain Hollywood Project, and other folks haven't done it before, either. It's just a newer rapping style that's being utilized now. Enrique knows the sound as well, and of course Jennifer Lopez - say what you want about her, but you cannot deny the cold hard fact that she never put out any albums without dance on it - EVEN when everyone else got scared and ran away from the sound. Not only did she always embrace the dance sound, she almost always was in favor of doing an additional dance remix album. J-Lo's truest passions lie in electro-pop, dance, and latin dance, so.. I consider her in as well. J-Lo even has a lot more releases or productions with a pure dance sound than Lady Gaga, who is mainly electro-POP with a bunch of remixes. .... ....

 

[Wildstyle K]

HOW APPROPRIATE! KZON was just now playing THIS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_8HtVFy1Qs&feature=fvst

Interesting that this would just happen to be played during The House Party, Tonite Only.

That group surely understands how to sum up the whole hating topic in a nutshell!

 

[d21ofnj]

Speaking of Sak Noel, I actually heard this on one of the Puerto Rico radio stations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9KDqPtPMSw

Guess this gives a boost to the latin community.

 

[gregg75]

dance may eventually become Rihanna, Chris Brown, Pitbull, Lmfao...etc. while new pop artists emerge and start doing other things.

And when that happens, the artists you mention here will likely attempt to co-opt THAT new sound, while the pure dance artists will continue making dance music.

EXACTLY! There are Dance artists and then there are artists like Kelly Clarkson who think they are Dance. Radio plays them. Dance folks eat it up....... then pat radio on the back for doing such a good job with Dance music.

And I don't buy the argument that accepting quasi-Dance artists will eventually lead to those folks expanding their tastes to include more traditional Dance music. We need to be working and focusing on TODAY not some fuzzy dream of what 2015 "should" "could" "may" be like.

 

[TonySantiago]

And I don't buy the argument that accepting quasi-Dance artists will eventually lead to those folks expanding their tastes to include more traditional Dance music. We need to be working and focusing on TODAY not some fuzzy dream of what 2015 "should" "could" "may" be like.

The argument I will give to that is this.....if someone is trying alcohol for the first time, you don't start them with 151 proof

We are core fans. We know better. But the reality of it is the fact that you have a lot of casual fans that think of LMFAO, Rihanna, Flo Rida as dance. And in the "pop" sense of it, they are. The best solution would be for a dance station in our brand to come along, but even with that you still have to add the LMFAO, Rihanna and Flo Rida aspect in there because you do have those folks that could be potential core fans, which can make our side much stronger. This is something that can happen NOW and gradually progress along the way. I'd want for that to happen and we don't have to wait until 2015!

And once these artists break off from dance, when corporate feels that the next cycle of music comes around and doesn't favor rhythmic, then at that point for the casual fans that went core, we have expanded our own base anyway and we have more people loving our brand.

 

[Wildstyle K]

Speaking of Sak Noel, I actually heard this on one of the Puerto Rico radio stations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9KDqPtPMSw

Guess this gives a boost to the latin community. 

I hear this a lot when our local KZON and KZZP mix.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

No one, not even Kelly herself, thinks Kelly Clarkson is dance. She and Katy Perry have a passion strictly for the pop borderline pop rock sound (and may tend to do fast paced pop/pop rock sounding material, similar to a modern version of an Animotion or Dead Or Alive style). They can both easily cross over into Adult Contemporary or HOT AC.

People like Rihanna, Chris Brown, Usher, Dev, Enrique Iglesias, Kelis, Kelly Rowland, Taio Cruz (of course) and even Cobra Starship COULD be part of "the real deal", and seem to be the ones who actually "study" the dance sound and learn how to create a decent sounding dance singing style the most. You could throw Ne-yo and Akon in there as well... but... ok, just leave them in, per se... or at least just Akon. ALL of these artists are the ones who are noticeably getting less Quasi as time proceeds, beginning to sound more pure, and are probably the ones to most likely stay at least somewhat dedicated to the sound after the trend passes. One thing I can say is that out of all, Rihanna "ain't leavin'". She is doing exactly what she loves, RIGHT NOW. This is the point in time where Rihanna is having the most fun with popular mainstream music.

Black Eyed Peas, Pitbull, Flo Rida; They may not be singers, BUT they do know how to manipulate and utilize the dance sound extremely well. They just bring a different, new, more urban style and flavor to it. They are somewhat similar to a modern day Max-A-Million, Outhere Brothers, and stuff like that. You cannot reject them any more than an old school dance fan rejects Marky Mark or 2 In A Room (which I'm sure are both accepted as old school dance). In this scenario, I'll say the ones who "ain't leavin'" are Pitbull and Flo Rida. Not sure about Black Eyed Peas..

I left out Lady Gaga because even though she does put out some dance records (that could cross over into Adult Contemporary or CHR like Cher... or Madonna), a majority of what she releases are STRICTLY electro-POP. Some of the artists I mentioned above even sound harder than Lady Gaga when it comes to the dance sound! I'd say Lady Gaga is more in tune with the Breathe Carolina, Outasight, and The Wanted style sound, who could be somewhat compared to Example. I'm sure not as many people would complain about dance REMIXES of songs from any of those artists mentioned in this paragraph being played or accepted as dance as much as people complain about certain songs from Usher and Rihanna that actually sound realer WITHOUT being remixed. I believe Outasight, Breathe Carolina, and The Wanted help the scene in their own unique way. I guess you could throw in M83 and Mike Posner as well.

Anyone else I left out I don't consider truly serious in regard to dance or electro music. I really don't know what Ke$ha's passion for sound style is - she's somewhat hard to read. LMFAO are really passionate about the electro SOUND, but they'll never be able to produce a straight up vocal singing dance tune. They'll always have to use a modernized 2 In A Room or Right Said Fred style (unless they start producing for other singers like Afrojack, David Guetta, Calvin Harris...etc. and labeling all their productions as "by LMFAO").

 

[Wildstyle K]

And I don't buy the argument that accepting quasi-Dance artists will eventually lead to those folks expanding their tastes to include more traditional Dance music. We need to be working and focusing on TODAY not some fuzzy dream of what 2015 "should" "could" "may" be like.

the reality of it is the fact that you have a lot of casual fans that think of LMFAO, Rihanna, Flo Rida as dance. And in the "pop" sense of it, they are.

Weren't La Bouche, No Mercy, Real McCoy, Captain Hollywood Project, Gina Gee, Le Click, Culture Club, Corona, and Crystal Waters, etc. all once dance - in the pop sense - as well.. before things got harder? The only difference is that they never really started out as any other sound first before crossing over. Yet no one complained. I don't think the problem with today's music are the artists like Rihanna, Ne-yo, Chris Brown, Kelis, Kelly Rowland, Pitbull, Black Eyed Peas, Flo Rida...etc. I think it's the stuff that surrounds it (in addition to less quality lyrics) that sort of makes it all look bad as a whole. If all those underlined artists mentioned above came out with the same style of their most recent hits back in the mid 90's, they would've been remembered as dance today. If Flo Rida, Pitbull, or Will-I-Am were around to rap on Captain Hollywood Project or Real McCoy or La Bouche's stuff, no one would've had any problem with it (except for conservative CHR's and HOT AC format programmers).

 

[Wildstyle K]

I should probably be more specific to WHICH songs I'm referring to by each of those modern pop dance artists I listed above. For example: When I say "Chris Brown", of course I'm not including songs like "International love" or "forever" as "real sounding dance".

I keep forgetting that everyone doesn't always keep up with the newest music, so if I come in here talking about "brand new Chris Brown", most will assume "that crazy KDM must be talking about 'international love'"... while remaining completely unaware of his latest upcoming hit called "turn up the music", which actually has a straight up dance production sound (unless you don't consider the Swedish House Mafia type sound to sound dance).

 

[Wildstyle K]

REFOCUSING & UNITING (CAN IT BE ACHIEVED?)

Speaking of Refocusing the Coalition, I just started studying for an upcoming quiz in Communucations, and THE FIRST thing the book talks about is the need for learning to work in groups!

"We are raised in family groups, we are educated and entertained in groups, and we work and worship in groups. We collaborate in groups - we work jointly together to discuss important issues, solve particular problems, or perform certain tasks."

- by Steven A. Beebe & John T. Masterson, author of
Communicating in Small Groups, Principles & Practices (Ninth Edition)

So, looks like Tony was right. We must learn to work together, somehow, someway.

But in a way it all seems impossible because some folks simply do not want to unite or get along. Go to facebook and look how fragmented the friendships are within the dance community alone! I guess Tony was also right about "pride" because a lot of people simply refuse to "friend" one another or work with others because people choosing not to be friends somehow makes themselves feel better or superior, amongst other things. While there may be several other factors (such as some people only wanting to add folks they know to keep privacy and other things of that nature) that may cause the division amongst social networking, pride and the inability to cooperate and get along are surely a huge part of the reasons why these fragmentations exist.

So, if you cannot even get along and come together through the use of social networking within the safety of your own private residence or personal hand held device, then how could we possibly imagine uniting in (this so called) real life? I guess when we get to the "dealing with conflicts" portion of the book later this semester, I'll learn a few things about how to handle conflicts... but even so, just because I'm learning it, doesn't mean everyone else in the music scene is studying and learning as well.

By the way, families can't even get along! So how in the world could a dance community unite? Also, you have unnecessary problems and situations that are EXTREMELY simple to just easily avoid, yet somehow, people still manage to create them and cause unnecessary trouble. Example; A sign says "NO PARKING". Someone sees it and still chooses to KNOWINGLY park there knowing the consequences. They see someone issuing a ticket as they walk back out and BAM! The violator gets into a yelling match with the officer who is simply doing his or her job, and in the end, the violator hates the entire city of Detroit and blames the city because that's where he got the ticket - for parking next to a sign that says "NO PARKING". Or even worse, those people who park IN FRONT of an open driveway - with cars IN them... If this is the way some peoples' minds operate, then of course you will never be able to accomplish peace, uniting, and expect everyone to rationally work together because there will always be someone who wants to mess it up or is simply oblivious to their own stupidity. **Another example: Judge Judy Case - A girl asks her friend to use their laptop to burn a cd. Then she puts her drink next to the cd tray of the laptop she's borrowing while burning the cd. The cd is done and it ejects, somehow knocking the drink over  onto the laptop she's borrowing, yet

THE GIRL TRULY BELIEVES IT'S NOT HER FAULT AND SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR DESTROYING THE LAPTOP SHE BORROWED!

...And yet we expect people to have enough sense to get along in a dance community? No way. And there's simply no way I can pretend to get along with and not mind people who are that foolish. So, I guess we're doomed.









By the way.. Hopefully I pass this class  ;D