The numbers

[davideduardo]

David, don't you even know your own stations? KRCD is the third station, of course. You have a .6 but have been at almost a 1, which means it shows up. KTNQ even shows up out there.

This is a clear example of your lack of knowledge of signals and how listeners use radio and how Arbitron measures and reports listening.

First, KRCD is in Inglewood. It has no signal even in places like Monterrey Park, Baldwin Park, the Covinas, Industry. It has no signal in the IE because there is a 103.9 in the market, thank you. KRCV, which is part of the single line reporting for Arbitron (and, maybe the station you meant to name), barely gets a signal to the 15 in cars, and none in home and office. But more than that, there is a 98.3 translator or LPFM (K252EI) in the IE which makes listening nearly impossible anywhere despite its low power. The KRCV listening in the IE is all, entirely, "At Work" in zip codes inside the LA metro or in car. There is zero listening to KRCV inside the IE MSA at all.

In the LA / SoCal area, studies of diary returns and the zips for at home and at work, it can be seen that 95% of AM listening is inside the 10 mv/m contour. KTNQ has no 10 mv/m anywhere in the IE MSA as defined by Arbitron. In fact, it barely has a daytime 5 mv/m in a tiny portion of the market, and none at all at night. KTNQ protects the 1010 stations in the desert and Bakersfield, so nearly no power goes that way.

KSCA ha no 70 dbu over any of the rated MSA, and 85% of listening to FM is in that contour, and 10% more in the 64 dbu contour, which is limited. The KSCA listening by IE diarykeepers is mostly by in car and at work and in areas where there actually is a signal.

So, since most listening by IE diarykeepers is actually in LA or Orange counties, you can see why there is not a lot of incentive to try to get listeners inside the IE market boundries as there is none to be had. You can't hear the stations well enough to generate listeners, if at all (such as 98.3 which has an IE station right on top of it in the IE).

Fact is, it is market number 26 and Univision doesn't care about it. I hope the people of the IE return the favor.

You still have not answered the question about what there is to gain by trying to attract out of market listeners.

First, four of our signals don't cover the market, and the one that does has no additional revenue potential, given that the market has so little revenue and, as several have posted, the rates are aobut 1/10th of those in LA. Why would we sell $100 spots when we can get $1000 in LA?

Groups that want to have an IE station buy stations there, like Clear and CBS. But there is no revenue for stations outside the market. Again, I remind you that KLYY, the market's biggest station signal wise, chose to be listed as an LA station... and sells as an LA station because it bills over $10 million that way which is about $3 million more than the total Spanish language billing in the IE.

 

[purdyum]

"last word David Gleason" that is you my man, gotta be honest...didn't read past the first 3 sentances. Doesn't matter. If it is out of market, perhaps you should be powered down so local stations can better serve their communities. You don't get, and I know nothing I say will change that. Hopefully, the people of the IE will read, and press for better service. If you don't serve the communitiy, your 4 stations that enter those areas SHOULD be powered down, then you can focus on LA.

Mr. Gleason, the last word is ALL yours.

 

[davideduardo]

"last word David Gleason" that is you my man, gotta be honest...didn't read past the first 3 sentances. Doesn't matter. If it is out of market, perhaps you should be powered down so local stations can better serve their communities. You don't get, and I know nothing I say will change that. Hopefully, the people of the IE will read, and press for better service. If you don't serve the communitiy, your 4 stations that enter those areas SHOULD be powered down, then you can focus on LA.

This is getting to be like a vaudeville skit. I already explained the signal issues to you. Here we go again, same chorus over again con brio.

1. KRCD has zero signal in the IE where another co channel is licensed.
2. KRCV has zero signal in the IE where another co channel is licensed.
3. KTNQ is so severely directional that it has a 5 mv over NONE of the IE metro daytime, and is totally unlistenable at night due to directionality and a 9 mv/m protected night contour, which ends at Pomona.
4. KSCA does not have a 70 dbu anywhere in the IE MSA... the 70 ends in the middle of the no-mans-land. There is a bit of a 64 dbu in small areas, but not appreciable.

These 4 stations, if they get any listening in IE diaries, get the vast bulk in in-car and at work. The at work is easy to identify as every diary has a work zip code, and the zips are mearly all in the LA metro or the no mans land, indicating commuters who drive into the signal. In any case, the listening to all 4 is either totally or in some large part not in the IE metro because the signals are not competitive.

That leaves one station, KLVE, which does cover the market in a large part but which happens to be the # 1 station in LA and is not going to spend any time worrying about listenership in a smaller market where there is no revenue gain.

Stations in general are not licensed with a requrement to serve with a local presence all the peripheral coverage areas... they are licensed do serve the city of licence and the "community" it is part of. If you look at the scale of any station in LA, they can not do events and promotions in a small fringe area of the quality and importance of what they can do in LA... so if you can not do something well, don't do it. The IE is a separate market.

 

[Bianco500]

David, you mentioned about water "Gaurentees". Why does such a requirement exist for financing a project? I know we need to use water, but I can't imagine a Sketchers or some plant that doesn't use water for manufacturer purposes ie production needing that much water(the only usage they would have would be for employee restrooms.)

 

[Hunter]

David, you mentioned about water "Gaurentees". Why does such a requirement exist for financing a project? I know we need to use water, but I can't imagine a Sketchers or some plant that doesn't use water for manufacturer purposes ie production needing that much water(the only usage they would have would be for employee restrooms.)

I think it was mentioned that this plant would generate 2000 new jobs. New jobs usually spur population and housing growth which in turn increases demand for water. I'm sure David can clarify if these are the issues in this case.

 

[davideduardo]

David, you mentioned about water "Gaurentees". Why does such a requirement exist for financing a project? I know we need to use water, but I can't imagine a Sketchers or some plant that doesn't use water for manufacturer purposes ie production needing that much water(the only usage they would have would be for employee restrooms.)

I was not familiar with the term myself until I read the article. In the discussion of the Sketchers project being cancelled, the Desert Sun said that Riverside County was unable to grant a water use guarantee. The lenders balked, and the project is looking for a new home. The guarantee, from the article content, is a statement that the project will be supplied with water for a period of time into the future. I think the need for water for a facility employing 2000 persons would be large for bathrooms, janatorial, vehicle replenishment, etc. In any case, what was said is that the lenders required such a certification to lend, and none was given. This was an example of many such denials it said.

 

[purdyum]

"last word David Gleason" that is you my man, gotta be honest...didn't read past the first 3 sentances. Doesn't matter. If it is out of market, perhaps you should be powered down so local stations can better serve their communities. You don't get, and I know nothing I say will change that. Hopefully, the people of the IE will read, and press for better service. If you don't serve the communitiy, your 4 stations that enter those areas SHOULD be powered down, then you can focus on LA.

Mr. Gleason, the last word is ALL yours.

 

[davideduardo]

didn't read past the first 3 sentances. Doesn't matter.

"My mind is made up. Don't bother me with the facts."

If it is out of market, perhaps you should be powered down so local stations can better serve their communities.

Another area you do not seem to understand is engineering. The LA market, going back many many decades, was and is longer to the north and south than to the east. So, beginning with the AMs, nearly all of which are directional away from the east, transmitters were placed to the west of the market and fired at the market and then over the pacific. Or, if non-directional, they were placed, like KNX and KFI, where the signal would propagate best up and down the coastline, but not necessarily inland to the east. The directional stations are not so built out of choice, but out of the need to mutually protect other stations on the same and adjacent channels. This, along with low ground condutivity, is why few AMs in LA penetrate the IE.

FM becomes viable, and those stations that at first operated from the tops of buiildings or little hills or small peaks want to cover better the full extent of the market, from the western San Fernando Valley to San Juan Capistrano. They move to the front side of Mt Wilson, and, those with enough power, achieve pretty good coverage of the entire market, except for NE LA County (which requires a repeater of some kind). However, the rest of the mountain range the stations up there are on impedes full coverage of the IE because of considerable shadowing and multipath... yet Wilson is the ideal place to cover the LA market.

A specific example of an AM directional is KTNQ. To be licensed in the 70's, Storer agreed to also build a 50 kw AM in Roswell, NM on 1020 and to accept all interference from it. Further, to build a 50 kw KTNQ, it had to protect KDKA at night and the 1010 CA stations in Bakersfield and the Desert day and night, meaning there was going to be no signal towards the IE by design. At night, the station is only interference free to the 8 mv/m contour. Your idea of "cutting power" is patently absurd, because every watt of KTNQs signal is sent over the LA market and out to Hawaii; it even has a bad night signal in the far eastern parts of LA County like Pomona.

You don't get, and I know nothing I say will change that. Hopefully, the people of the IE will read, and press for better service. If you don't serve the communitiy, your 4 stations that enter those areas SHOULD be powered down, then you can focus on LA.

There is only one station that covers at all well the IE. As I said, 98.3 and 103.9 are duplicated with local stations in the IE. How can anyone listen if there is no way at all to receive them due to a local on the same frequency? 1020 was designed to send no power to the east, day or night. It has no usable signal in the IE. 101.9 does not have a 70 dbu anywhere in the IE market.

And, I explained carefully to you that Arbitron shows that the significant part of listening reported in IE diaries to 101.9, 1020, 98.3 and even 103.9 is taking place in the car and at ZIP codes in the LA market while people are at work or commuting, not while they are at home in the IE. Don't you understand that a large number of IE residents commute into LA? And that, when in LA, they generally can not get any of the IE stations, so they listen to LA ones... and when they get home, that is what they put in the Arbitron diary.

You still have not stated what the benefit to any LA station is in focusing on the IE. I just don't get the purpose of this personal jihad.

The IE is already overpopulated with stations... 27 licensed in the metro and one more with an application to move there. Let them serve the local audience, and the LA stations serve theirs.

 

[davideduardo]

I think it was mentioned that this plant would generate 2000 new jobs. New jobs usually spur population and housing growth which in turn increases demand for water. I'm sure David can clarify if these are the issues in this case.

I had not even thought about the residential needs for water of the employees. It was not mentioned in the article I read, but obviously is part of issuing a water guarantee from the county government. Excellent point. What it seems is that it is going to be hard to sustain high rates of growth in the IE and other dry areas because there is not enough water for that growth.

 

[purdyum]

"last word David Gleason" that is you my man, gotta be honest...didn't read past the first 3 sentances. Doesn't matter. If it is out of market, perhaps you should be powered down so local stations can better serve their communities. You don't get, and I know nothing I say will change that. Hopefully, the people of the IE will read, and press for better service. If you don't serve the communitiy, your 4 stations that enter those areas SHOULD be powered down, then you can focus on LA.

Mr. Gleason, the last word is ALL yours.

 

[davideduardo]

"last word David Gleason" that is you my man, gotta be honest...didn't read past the first 3 sentances. Doesn't matter. If it is out of market, perhaps you should be powered down so local stations can better serve their communities. You don't get, and I know nothing I say will change that. Hopefully, the people of the IE will read, and press for better service. If you don't serve the communitiy, your 4 stations that enter those areas SHOULD be powered down, then you can focus on LA.

Mr. Gleason, the last word is ALL yours.

Nope. It is yours. By posting the same thing over and over, you qualified as a Troll, Entry Level. Your pay grade is GS1, and you will occasionally be fed by the general populace.

Go distort reality somewhere else... like telling the San Francisco stations to serve Salinas better.

 

[radioresearcher]

"last word David Gleason" that is you my man, gotta be honest...didn't read past the first 3 sentances. Doesn't matter. If it is out of market, perhaps you should be powered down so local stations can better serve their communities. You don't get, and I know nothing I say will change that. Hopefully, the people of the IE will read, and press for better service. If you don't serve the communitiy, your 4 stations that enter those areas SHOULD be powered down, then you can focus on LA.

Mr. Gleason, the last word is ALL yours.

Nope. It is yours. By posting the same thing over and over, you qualified as a Troll, Entry Level. Your pay grade is GS1, and you will occasionally be fed by the general populace.

Go distort reality somewhere else... like telling the San Francisco stations to serve Salinas better.

David:

I agree with your assessment 100% - but 98.3 has a decent signal in the no man's land - but not in the metro. The only thing short spaced is 98.5 in Palm Springs...

There is zero reason for L.A. stations to try and serve the I.E.

 

[davideduardo]

I agree with your assessment 100% - but 98.3 has a decent signal in the no man's land - but not in the metro. The only thing short spaced is 98.5 in Palm Springs...

The signal pretty much gets nuked by the translator in Rialto and the distance just before the 15. The translator seems to put a lot more power towards the 10 / 15 interchange than the directional pattern indicates. Still, it is co-channel and ruins any chance of KRCV listening in the rated part of the market.

There is zero reason for L.A. stations to try and serve the I.E.

I think we have said that several times... ;D

 

[purdyum]

"last word David Gleason" that is you my man, gotta be honest...didn't read past the first 3 sentances. Doesn't matter. If it is out of market, perhaps you should be powered down so local stations can better serve their communities. You don't get, and I know nothing I say will change that. Hopefully, the people of the IE will read, and press for better service. If you don't serve the communitiy, your 4 stations that enter those areas SHOULD be powered down, then you can focus on LA.

Mr. Gleason, the last word is ALL yours. ;D