No memory loss........I didn't use your stats in that post, because there's no evidence that any particular special(s), in this case, the #1 weekend, cause ratings to slide in '89 and '90. 1989 was the last year of the well-known drumroll jingle, before a newer concept began in 1990. Who knows...
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The old KRTH
- Thread starter David Shapiro
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No memory loss........I didn't use your stats in that post, because there's no evidence that any particular special(s), in this case, the #1 weekend, cause ratings to slide in '89 and '90. 1989 was the last year of the well-known drumroll jingle, before a newer concept began in 1990. Who knows...
Ratings went up more when Phil Hall (no offense, Phil), the specials and Brian Bierne being able to play his own records were eliminated. From a 1.9 and tied for 20th to a 3.8 and 6th place.
The switch from AC to oldies was a 2.9 to a 3.8 and tied for 11th to 8th.
It's not just about the specials. It's that when a station consistently delivers on its expectations, it wins. Anytime you say "one record won't hurt", it's like being on the freeway and saying "I'm just going to answer this one text". Maybe you'll get away with it, maybe you'll dent a fender or maybe you'll die.
When you know that what you don't do can't hurt you, it makes no sense to do it.
There are plenty of 2000-2009 numbers in the R&R directories at http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Ratings-Directories.htm
Jhani did turn KRTH around as Michael suggests. The challenge for Rick Thomas was to make the demos younger, which he successfully did before being promoted.
Acc. to Wikipedia:
"KRTH signed on August 11, 1941 as the first FM station in Los Angeles. The station's original call letters were K45LA, broadcasting on 44.5 Megacycles from a tower atop Mount Lee."
Was this a music station then......spewing the hits of the Ink Spots, Glenn Miller and Jimmy Dorsey? Or was it radio shows?
Oldies76,
You are spinning this thread completely off topic.
Stations have no interest in the 55+ crowd. You need to understand it.
You are spinning this thread completely off topic.
Stations have no interest in the 55+ crowd. You need to understand it.
We look at MediaMonitors which has the ability to show rolling averages of the last multiple plays of a song. If we see that, on average over the last several week's of play in different dayparts that a particular song has cost us 15% of the audience (which is more than the start of a stopset causes) we put that song under the microscope.
The PPM panel is a reflection of the universe, and more than that, the determining factor in a station's income and all of our continued employment. We believe that the behaviour of our metered listeners in PPM reasonably reflects an approximation of the reality of the universe of our total listener base. And if we see a damaging song that hurts us every time it plays, we are going to seriously consider nuking it.
Generally, in a library based format the songs that tested just above cut-off in our last music test are the ones that cause the most audience loss. And we know that continuing to play a weak song will only make the reaction bigger and bigger. So we rest the song or kill it.
This ain't rocket science. The listener tells us "how high" and we jump accordingly.
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Here's an interesting read about K45LA: http://www.durenberger.com/resources/documents/K45LA0342.pdf
From 1948-1966, I believe it was a straight simulcast of whatever was airing on KHJ.
No, actually I don't. I know what you're saying but I also believe you and others are over-thinking something that's a lot simpler and do-able than you may realize.
You're saying these listeners are now 70 years old. I would argue that you can cut that number in half. Take the 35 year olds who were 23 when Mr. Rock & Roll retired. who just possibly were listening to him since they were 19. They would remember him. And certainly there are enough folks in their 40's with fond memories of him too.
Your comment about the "tribute" being about the people who really made the station what it was. I was agreeing with you. That's why I mentioned in an earlier post to include people like Jhani Kaye and Jay Coffey. You have to remember though, that Brian was the face of K-Earth for the most part. As to your minor point correction; Brian for all those years was on 4 hours a day from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. and then in his last few years it was 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. and absolutely a presence during mid-days in Southern California.
It's easy to pot-shoot these ideas down. I've seen many an idea not get funded because people pull out their calculators and base their decisions on whether anything has any economic feasibility or not. I've mostly seen this happen with people that have movie projects. You'd think that with Radio, it ought to be a lot simpler. You're not risking that much when we're only talking about a 4-day holiday weekend. The problem here is that the people pot-shooting everything down are the same technicians who have never spent one day in any (and yes I'll say it) creative end of radio.
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You were, IIRC, a board op and not a programmer. I am not demeaning board ops, just saying that you have no inside experience in increasing a station's ratings or maintaining them. And you often interpret strategic moves by a station the wrong way due to that lack of experience.
Listen to Michael. He has a very precise and well documented knowledge of KRTH and of the historical ties to 93 KHJ and the Drake years. His ratings analysis and observations about playlists, specialty shows and talent and PD changes are most accurate. Re-read his posts.
I have and I have thanked him for it. I believe once I asked him if he had reference to those coveted KRTH radio surveys that came out after 1977. He is very knowledgeable, just like you, of course.
And I feel compelled to add, Michael, that I'm not talking about you or anyone necessarily in this group when I say that. I'm referring to whoever is at the helm of KRTH today.
The 35-year-olds who were 23 when Mr. Rock and Roll retired? Okay, Just how many 23-year-olds do you think were listening to KRTH in 2005 when it was playing 300 burned-to-a-crisp oldies to an audience shrinking so badly that CBS was seriously considering a full format and call letter change? Now---how many listened in middays and how many developed an attachment to Brian, who by that point was opening his mic five times an hour for seven seconds at a shot?
Vinnie, this is the logic that got Huggie Boy put on nights at KRTH at age 70 (though Brian's only 69). That didn't work either.
As for the tribute...you have a different sense of "today". Jhani's been gone three years and Jay 11. Jhani saved the station from extinction, but there's very little promotion value in "Hey, we almost died a few years ago---and here's the guy who gave us CPR. Oh, and by the way, here's the guy who almost killed us...Jay Coffey!"
Don't get me wrong...I know what it's like to really like something, miss it and wish it were still around. But you have to square that against reality. For years, I would have bet you that KMPC in the sixties was #1, or at worst, allowing for KHJ, #2. Turns out they were lucky to hit #6...and Gary Owens at what I would have thought would be the peak of his powers, fell as far as #19 in afternoons.
As for what you're risking in a four-day weekend....I think I've said it three or four times already today.
I appreciate that, Vinnie. I've devoted 45 years of my life to broadcasting. I've done everything except climb the tower to change the light bulbs.
Using a multi-book average, KRTH had less than 5% of its already low audience in the 18-24 demo and only a tad more in 25-35. 75% of the audience was in 45+. Half of the audience was over 55.
There is no interest among the current KRTH listeners for someone they did not listen to in the past in any significant amount and who did a mid-day show on a music station.
I've done that, and it is not a memory to recall fondly.
Remember, due to the restriction of Petrillo and the AFM, it was very hard to do an all music station in the early 40's. There were requirements for a house band or orchestra to play live and proportional restrictions on what they call "needle time" in the UK.
Here's a question that I'm really interested in what your answers are. I mentioned that in the upcoming months (assuming I get all my licensing issues squared away on all 650+ songs), I will be uploading to YouTube "Southern California's #1's of Rock and Roll" originally broadcast on KRTH in 1989 and 90. How many "views" would it take over the course of one year, to impress you that enough people still care about this music and the presentation put forth by the station? In other words, this many views in a year would give you pause to think, "wow, I didn't see that coming, that's pretty impressive" or this number of views after a year makes you think, "oh well, that's par for the course, I expected that." I'm interested in your speculations. Have at it, and thanks!
Well for those who have or have not seen this list, these are the songs I believe, Vinnie is referring to for his project to "revive" a long lost special that was once a tradition in Southern California for so many years. This is the 1985 edition!
Like I said earlier, this special first aired in 1978 under Bob Hamilton and ran through 1990 in some form. In 1986, KRTH cut the special down to 1979 and in 1990, only songs thru 1973 were played. After 1990, it was never heard from again. And remember, the weekend prior to Labor Day, KRTH played the "Runner's Up"...the #2's. I certainly hope Vinnie can pull this off and it'll be a blast to the past, once finished. Good luck Vinnie!
http://buffpost.com/music/krth/index-archive.php
As Vinnie said earlier, I also believe KRTH can pull off a once a year show, featuring 1985-2015 (give or take) for it's new demos! But will they? Probably not.
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With the KRTH cume just in LA County and Orange County hovering around 3 million, it would take well over a million views with people under 55 only in the LA metro to make me even react. I doubt you will get many people under 70 to listen to that list with so many 50's and 60's stuff, in any case.
And comparing a one-time view that can happen any time over a year to actual, week in and week out listening is a difficult if not irrelevant comparison.
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I'm not going to make specific replies to anyone's comments., except in this case to say Thank you, David. I appreciate that anyone is taking the time to offer their analysis. Much appreciated
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