The Q102 of twenty-five years ago was a very unique station. Beyond the promotions such as the Jell-O Jumps, Honk Offs and the infamous “Chris Collinsworth is Hard Up Party”, their music mix was like no other. The currents were far from what was played on AT40 including John Anderson’s “Swingin’”, The Time’s “The Walk” and even playing Bryan Adams’ “Heaven” before it was a hit nationally. Plus their gold material included The Animals “House of The Rising Sun”, Boz Skaggs’ “It’s Over” and “We’re All Alone” along with Kenny Loggins “Celebrate Me Home” and anything else they threw into a “Hot Fun Weekend”. Put it all together and you had Q102. Your thoughts?
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The Q102 of yesteryear
- Thread starter radiorob2.0
- Start date
Twenty-five years ago, we still had beautiful music on 92.5 and WLW was playing Classic Rock on the weekends. We had no personal music machines, other than a walkman (doesn't count) and satellite radio wasn't on the horizon. Less than twenty years before then, the same station that played the Rolling Stones and the Beatles could play Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra and get away with it.
Are you suggesting that an "All-Over-The-Road" station would have a chance today?
Would you listen to a station that played 3 A-A's and broke, 3 Countries and broke, and 3 pop hits, etc.?
(Heck, I might!)
Are you suggesting that an "All-Over-The-Road" station would have a chance today?
Would you listen to a station that played 3 A-A's and broke, 3 Countries and broke, and 3 pop hits, etc.?
(Heck, I might!)
It was just a moment of waxing poetic about the past.
Q102 during those days was an incredible radio station. In radio history WSAI will always be the “station that loved Cincinnati”, but Q102 was the station that partied with Cincinnati. Randy Michaels and Jim Fox were the architects of a radio station where you never knew what was going to happen next and occasionally sinned; pretty ballsy for a radio station located in a conservative city like Cincinnati.
You can’t go back but it is source of good memories. Like the time in January 1984 when the rating advances were released and Q102 was number one. Most stations might produce a promo announcing the victory; Q102 took it one step further with an on-air celebration. The commercial log was scrapped and the jocks played whatever they wanted through the early morning hours. The alcohol was plenty during the party in the control room as the staff opened the mic and sung along with the songs they played. The climax of the evening was when Jim Fox proclaimed on the air that Q102 the only station in town “that’s worth a s***t!”
That was then and this is now. But it’s a pretty good assumption the current owners wouldn’t allow any of that behavior to happen today on the current incarnation of Q102.
Q102 during those days was an incredible radio station. In radio history WSAI will always be the “station that loved Cincinnati”, but Q102 was the station that partied with Cincinnati. Randy Michaels and Jim Fox were the architects of a radio station where you never knew what was going to happen next and occasionally sinned; pretty ballsy for a radio station located in a conservative city like Cincinnati.
You can’t go back but it is source of good memories. Like the time in January 1984 when the rating advances were released and Q102 was number one. Most stations might produce a promo announcing the victory; Q102 took it one step further with an on-air celebration. The commercial log was scrapped and the jocks played whatever they wanted through the early morning hours. The alcohol was plenty during the party in the control room as the staff opened the mic and sung along with the songs they played. The climax of the evening was when Jim Fox proclaimed on the air that Q102 the only station in town “that’s worth a s***t!”
That was then and this is now. But it’s a pretty good assumption the current owners wouldn’t allow any of that behavior to happen today on the current incarnation of Q102.
D
Dirty_Harry
Guest
microbob said:Q102 was a powerhouse for Cincinnati at that time I agree. What saddens me is that it will never be that way again as FM and radio in general is going the way of the dinosaur.
But does anybody "get" that that's exactly the reason why it's going the way of the dinosaur? Local radio used to be creative ... now it's just glorified Muzak.
You guys are letting the nostalgia cloud your thinking.
Saying that FM radio is going the way of the dinosaur is just a misinformed remark. 90% of adults listen to AM and FM radio every day. That's a fact. Look it up on the Arbitron web site. Read Inside Radio, All Access, and R&R to stay informed about these things.
The reason a station like Q102 doesn't dominate anymore is because of CHOICES! In 1984, there was one Top 40 station, a Beautiful Music station (WWEZ), 2 AC stations (W-Lite and Warm 98), 2 country stations (WUBE and Kicks 94), 2 rock stations (96 Rock and WEBN), and an Urban (WBLZ) that were the only FMs with any signal or numbers. 97.3 and 100.3 weren't on the air, 107.1 was still a tiny Milford signal, and there was only one FM to an owner so the stations - not the clusters -competed against each other.
Now there is a Classic Rock (The FOX), an Adult Hits (Mix), one Alternative (The Sound), an FM Talk (WFTK), a secondary Country (The Wolf), one AC (Warm 98), an Urban/AC (Mojo), an Urban (The WIZ), an Adult CHR (Q102), a Rock (WEBN), Classic Hits (WGRR), Country (B105), and CHR (KISS 107). Add to that the number od iPods, satellite, CDs, on-line listening and don't you think the audience is a bit more segmented now?
In 1984 would you ever have believed that WLW, Warm 98, WUBE, or the station at 103.5 or 100.9/101.1 would beat Q102 in anything? They do now and the days of the wacky Morning Zoo are over. Just like we don't have DJs honking horns and ringing bells anymore. (Sorry Bobby B!)
Times change and Q102 did too. Can anyone find me a major to large market where a station like Q102 still dominates?
Saying that FM radio is going the way of the dinosaur is just a misinformed remark. 90% of adults listen to AM and FM radio every day. That's a fact. Look it up on the Arbitron web site. Read Inside Radio, All Access, and R&R to stay informed about these things.
The reason a station like Q102 doesn't dominate anymore is because of CHOICES! In 1984, there was one Top 40 station, a Beautiful Music station (WWEZ), 2 AC stations (W-Lite and Warm 98), 2 country stations (WUBE and Kicks 94), 2 rock stations (96 Rock and WEBN), and an Urban (WBLZ) that were the only FMs with any signal or numbers. 97.3 and 100.3 weren't on the air, 107.1 was still a tiny Milford signal, and there was only one FM to an owner so the stations - not the clusters -competed against each other.
Now there is a Classic Rock (The FOX), an Adult Hits (Mix), one Alternative (The Sound), an FM Talk (WFTK), a secondary Country (The Wolf), one AC (Warm 98), an Urban/AC (Mojo), an Urban (The WIZ), an Adult CHR (Q102), a Rock (WEBN), Classic Hits (WGRR), Country (B105), and CHR (KISS 107). Add to that the number od iPods, satellite, CDs, on-line listening and don't you think the audience is a bit more segmented now?
In 1984 would you ever have believed that WLW, Warm 98, WUBE, or the station at 103.5 or 100.9/101.1 would beat Q102 in anything? They do now and the days of the wacky Morning Zoo are over. Just like we don't have DJs honking horns and ringing bells anymore. (Sorry Bobby B!)
Times change and Q102 did too. Can anyone find me a major to large market where a station like Q102 still dominates?
Elephant said:You guys are letting the nostalgia cloud your thinking.
Saying that FM radio is going the way of the dinosaur is just a misinformed remark. 90% of adults listen to AM and FM radio every day. That's a fact. Look it up on the Arbitron web site. Read Inside Radio, All Access, and R&R to stay informed about these things.
The reason a station like Q102 doesn't dominate anymore is because of CHOICES! In 1984, there was one Top 40 station, a Beautiful Music station (WWEZ), 2 AC stations (W-Lite and Warm 98), 2 country stations (WUBE and Kicks 94), 2 rock stations (96 Rock and WEBN), and an Urban (WBLZ) that were the only FMs with any signal or numbers. 97.3 and 100.3 weren't on the air, 107.1 was still a tiny Milford signal, and there was only one FM to an owner so the stations - not the clusters -competed against each other.
Now there is a Classic Rock (The FOX), an Adult Hits (Mix), one Alternative (The Sound), an FM Talk (WFTK), a secondary Country (The Wolf), one AC (Warm 98), an Urban/AC (Mojo), an Urban (The WIZ), an Adult CHR (Q102), a Rock (WEBN), Classic Hits (WGRR), Country (B105), and CHR (KISS 107). Add to that the number od iPods, satellite, CDs, on-line listening and don't you think the audience is a bit more segmented now?
In 1984 would you ever have believed that WLW, Warm 98, WUBE, or the station at 103.5 or 100.9/101.1 would beat Q102 in anything? They do now and the days of the wacky Morning Zoo are over. Just like we don't have DJs honking horns and ringing bells anymore. (Sorry Bobby B!)
Times change and Q102 did too. Can anyone find me a major to large market where a station like Q102 still dominates?
No but not sure there are any stations like that any more. That said, one like that or like The Power Pig(WFLZ) could probably throw a shock to the market and actually work, of course when you have 4 corporate owners all afraid of lawsuits not sure that could ever really be pulled off again.
I don't think Q-102 really started declining until around early 1984. Starting around the time of 'Footloose', they shortened their playlist considerably. Even so, it was still a much better station than any of the crap that exists today.
Now, Q-102 really got bad in the mid-'90s (with that AC/top 40 hybrid they did), but that's a whole other matter. And it really, really got bad after that, but anyway...
Also, with Cincinnati being already a big market in the '80s, there aren't that many more stations here now than there were back then (contrary to what other posters have said). Places like Springfield (MO) or Knoxville have all those 80-90 move-ins, but Cincinnati has hardly any. (I guess 97.3 is the closest thing to it.)
Now, Q-102 really got bad in the mid-'90s (with that AC/top 40 hybrid they did), but that's a whole other matter. And it really, really got bad after that, but anyway...
Also, with Cincinnati being already a big market in the '80s, there aren't that many more stations here now than there were back then (contrary to what other posters have said). Places like Springfield (MO) or Knoxville have all those 80-90 move-ins, but Cincinnati has hardly any. (I guess 97.3 is the closest thing to it.)
Bandit, what do you call 107.1 if not a move-in? What is 100.3 if not a move-in? What is 97.3 if not a move-in?
NONE of these frequencies ever showed up in Arbitron in 1984. Only one of them existed and it got below a 1 share at best.
Add to that the improvements in the 94.9 and 103.5 signals since the 80s and you've got a much more competitive FM band in 2007 than in 1984.
You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.
NONE of these frequencies ever showed up in Arbitron in 1984. Only one of them existed and it got below a 1 share at best.
Add to that the improvements in the 94.9 and 103.5 signals since the 80s and you've got a much more competitive FM band in 2007 than in 1984.
You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.
Elephant said:Bandit, what do you call 107.1 if not a move-in? What is 100.3 if not a move-in? What is 97.3 if not a move-in?
Those are only 3 stations, and one of them only just recently moved in. Look how many big FM stations there already were in the 1980s. (I'm counting 10.) In markets like Knoxville or Lexington it's a little different.
Add to that the improvements in the 94.9 and 103.5 signals since the 80s and you've got a much more competitive FM band in 2007 than in 1984.
Um, no. There's far fewer owners now.
Um, Bandit.
Lexington is market #104 surrounded by farmland with plenty of room to move FMs.
Knoxville is market #71 surrounded by farmland and the Smokies with plenty of room to move FMs.
If you don't think the FM band is more segmented and more competitive than it was in 1984, then you - once again - have NO idea what you're talking about. But we've known that on here for a long time. I've already explained how many DIFFERENT formats there are on FM now as compared with 1984.
Lexington is market #104 surrounded by farmland with plenty of room to move FMs.
Knoxville is market #71 surrounded by farmland and the Smokies with plenty of room to move FMs.
If you don't think the FM band is more segmented and more competitive than it was in 1984, then you - once again - have NO idea what you're talking about. But we've known that on here for a long time. I've already explained how many DIFFERENT formats there are on FM now as compared with 1984.
D
Dirty_Harry
Guest
Elephant said:You guys are letting the nostalgia cloud your thinking.
Saying that FM radio is going the way of the dinosaur is just a misinformed remark. 90% of adults listen to AM and FM radio every day. That's a fact. Look it up on the Arbitron web site. Read Inside Radio, All Access, and R&R to stay informed about these things.
I used to think that myself. I used to think it was my nostalgia, or maybe it was just good memories from a time when I started growing into an adult. Unfortunately for you, the web is full of great airchecks from the 1980's and all you have to do is listen to some of those and compare them to what you hear today and you can tell a dramatic difference (not all of them, I've heard some airchecks that were horrible!).
Look at anything else that has been standardized and centralized.
A good analogy is General Motors ...... look at what a disaster that company is because of centralization. They took 5 separate divisions with separate marketing, engineering, sales and product developent staffs and they consolidated everything. For 20 years they've lived under the illusion that people were being fooled into thinking that Chevrolets, Oldsmobiles, Pontiacs, Cadillacs and Buicks were actually different cars. But your customers can tell the difference and business dribbled away. Oldsmobiles alone used to sell 1,000,000 cars a year. Now there is no Oldsmobile, and Pontiacs, Buicks only account for about 600,000 units.
Yes, you can see more choices. But there is a corporate cookie-cutter mentality that pervades radio these days and having some corporate suits in charge (I am one, by the way) does not lend itself to allowing for the kind of creativity and entertainment value that was a trademark of local radio during that era.
I was a HUGE fan of radio during my youth. I could flip a radio station on while cruising in my car, or working around the house and I just loved the experience. I loved the production value, the jingles, the entertainment! Tell me what about local radio, particularly Clear Channel local radio, would be considered entertaining today?
I was also a huge fan of Q-102 during that era ....... anytime I caught the station during a trip down to Cincinnati, or dx-ing here in Columbus, I thought it sounded GREAT. Likewise for the Power Pig, when it first started and even, to a lesser extent, Kiss 107 FM, when it first came on the air. 92-X and Z-93 were also great stations. My ears could tell the difference right away whenever I set foot into Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit or Indy and the poor CHR choices they had in comparison. My ears could also tell the difference in the late 1980's, when I lived in Cincinnati and thought Q-102 was barely listenable, with the exception of Mark Sebastian. (Z-93 was the preset button on my radio, despite the static.)
We don't have that sound anymore, the entertainment or the silliness, and that's what people are lamenting. We have Muzak playing a dumbed down selection of annoying rap songs and whiny alternative rock under the guise of being some ideal playlist for a podunk midwest city.
Compare the Power Pig of the late 1980's (a GREAT SOUNDING radio station) to the WNCI/Kiss 107 clone it has become today. Pathetic.
Harry, I can't argue what anybody thinks is quality radio. If you don't think radio is as entertaining now as it was in 1984, that's a private opinion and I can't argue against your personal tastes.
My argument is against the consistent drumbeat of the "death of terrestrial radio" and against the ridiculous posts from Bandit. There are many more choices on the FM band now versus 1984. That's a fact. At one time we had FOUR AC stations in Cincinnati: WIMJ, WWNK, WRRM, and WJOJ. Now we only have one. We also certainly have more market signals than at any other time. 90% of adults still listen to terrestrial AM and FM radio. That;s also a fact.
My argument is against the consistent drumbeat of the "death of terrestrial radio" and against the ridiculous posts from Bandit. There are many more choices on the FM band now versus 1984. That's a fact. At one time we had FOUR AC stations in Cincinnati: WIMJ, WWNK, WRRM, and WJOJ. Now we only have one. We also certainly have more market signals than at any other time. 90% of adults still listen to terrestrial AM and FM radio. That;s also a fact.
Let me correct myself on one thing in my previous post. There were actually FIVE ACs at one time, because I forgot about WLLT. WWEZ was also morphing into a vocals-based AC.
Harry, I think you make my point about why things change with your GM analogy. Sure there's no more Oldsmobile, but now there is Hyundai and Kia and Lexus and Acura and Infiniti...etc.
Let's not forget too that the guy who made Q102 what it was in the 80s (Randy Michaels, of course) is also the guy who helped destroy it in the 90s. He aimed two other stations - KISS and MIX - directly at Q102 and did some severe damage.
Harry, I think you make my point about why things change with your GM analogy. Sure there's no more Oldsmobile, but now there is Hyundai and Kia and Lexus and Acura and Infiniti...etc.
Let's not forget too that the guy who made Q102 what it was in the 80s (Randy Michaels, of course) is also the guy who helped destroy it in the 90s. He aimed two other stations - KISS and MIX - directly at Q102 and did some severe damage.
Dirty Harry, you hit the nail on the head! I loved the time when stations had their own identity and they had formats that were distinctive. I miss it. Sure lots of folks still listen to FM, but the times they are a changin', that's for sure. Every soft rock station sounds the same coast to coast. So does Oldies, or Lite Rock, or whatever. Anyone who believes the future of radio is in local FM is not facing reality. Even many of the local stations satellite much of their programming.
FRR, what local FMs satellite their programming outside of evenings? Supertalk doesn't count because it's talk.
In AM Drive
The FOX does BOB & TOM
MIX does Whoopi
The Wolf does BIG D & BUBBA
Mojo does TOM JOYNER
WIZ does RUSS PARR
KISS is now local
I'll have to disagree that Local FM is NOT the future, because it is. Every focus group and research study shows it.
In AM Drive
The FOX does BOB & TOM
MIX does Whoopi
The Wolf does BIG D & BUBBA
Mojo does TOM JOYNER
WIZ does RUSS PARR
KISS is now local
I'll have to disagree that Local FM is NOT the future, because it is. Every focus group and research study shows it.
D
Dirty_Harry
Guest
FRR said:Dirty Harry, you hit the nail on the head! I loved the time when stations had their own identity and they had formats that were distinctive. I miss it. Sure lots of folks still listen to FM, but the times they are a changin', that's for sure. Every soft rock station sounds the same coast to coast. So does Oldies, or Lite Rock, or whatever. Anyone who believes the future of radio is in local FM is not facing reality. Even many of the local stations satellite much of their programming.
What's befuddling is this. Just look at everywhere Randy Michaels has left his mark .... he came in with a high-energy playlist and lots of attitude and personality. The attitude was cutting-edge in it's day, but I think it would be tired in today's world. However the rest of the formula, high energy music and lots of personality would just pummel the competition. It worked with Q-102, it worked with the Power Pig and it worked with Kiss 107 fm. Then the suits took over and gave us Clear Channel cookie-cutter podunk music. Or for that matter, something even along the lines of the old 92-X and Z-93 would be a vast improvement over McRadio.
One of my pet peeves about WNCI is their heavy reliance on dayparts. It seems like you have to listen to 3 or 4 pieces of crap like Greenday or some other punk whiners before you get to an upbeat song. Again, I'm sure their research says Greenday's popular ............. but the results of the stations mentioned above and how they were able to pummel the competition should say something about their research.
I think it boils down to the difference between being competent in your job versus taking it to a level where it is an art. Randy Michaels, at least when it came to programming a CHR station, was Picasso, Rembrandt, Michaelangelo and Salvatore Dali all rolled into one. The current Clear Channel regime has no one that even comes close.
I think an amusing aside is today's article in the Wall Street Journal about some CC station in Dallas that has gone to sponsorships instead of commercials (ala public radio). The brilliant minds at CC were able to take a station that was No. 7 in the ratings when they bought it to No. 17 today. Kind of like the situation in Tampa where Q-105 was the heritage CHR owned by CC .......... toppled by the Power Pig.
Yes, I didn't used to be in this category, but now I am firmly in the Clear Channel sucks camp!
Harry, how can you praise Randy in one sentence, then decry corporate radio in another? Sure Randy created a lot of great radio, but voice-tracking and hub-spoke philosophy was his! It was Jacor BEFORE CC ever bought it! There were meetings between management and PDs at some of the local Jacor/CC stations complaining that they were TOO successful! KISS and THE FOX weren't allowed to hurt WEBN. Randy was in charge during those days. Why do you think 1360 ran something other than sports between 6:00 and 9:00?
Randy was the "innovator" of a KISS and a MIX in every market. Blame him. If he had wanted to create what worked in the 80s he would have done it. Don't you wonder why he didn't?
Randy was the "innovator" of a KISS and a MIX in every market. Blame him. If he had wanted to create what worked in the 80s he would have done it. Don't you wonder why he didn't?
D
Dirty_Harry
Guest
Elephant said:Harry, how can you praise Randy in one sentence, then decry corporate radio in another? Sure Randy created a lot of great radio, but voice-tracking and hub-spoke philosophy was his! It was Jacor BEFORE CC ever bought it! There were meetings between management and PDs at some of the local Jacor/CC stations complaining that they were TOO successful! KISS and THE FOX weren't allowed to hurt WEBN. Randy was in charge during those days. Why do you think 1360 ran something other than sports between 6:00 and 9:00?
Randy was the "innovator" of a KISS and a MIX in every market. Blame him. If he had wanted to create what worked in the 80s he would have done it. Don't you wonder why he didn't?
I don't completely disagree with you, but I think your argument dovetails right into what everybody else is saying here. You're right, clusters are being programmed either to protect other stations within the cluster or to take a piece out of the competition. If there were true competition and choice, this wouldn't be happening.
I don't think Randy Michaels was so perfect as you might think I do, but he sure knew how to program one hell of a CHR station. He was also a pretty good AM host, in his day.
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