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The sad truth about Air America

B

BillFranklin

Guest
For those who believe Al Franken and friends will live on, check out allaccess.com and go to the ratings for Rochester NY.

You may need enroll if you have not already done so.

Don't worry. Membership is free.

WROC-AM, Air America's Rochester affiliate, does not show in the last four Arbitron books.

That's for starters.

Go to radioequalizer.blogspot.com for more information about the network's problems.
 
Bill's wrong

WROC has showed in every ratings book. He's just not scrolling down far enough.

And I'm the GM of the station Bill.

I don't think we're going away. Sorry.
 
Re: And we don't just run AAR

> In addition, we don't only run Air America. We run Franken, and their morning shows, but also run Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz (Jones) and programming from the WOR radio network.

Keep scrolling down...it's down there. Funny, it doesn't bother me.

WROC has showed in every ratings book. He's just not
> scrolling down far enough.
>
> And I'm the GM of the station Bill.
>
> I don't think we're going away. Sorry.
>
 
Me Thinks Someone Is Telling Tall Tales Here.

Regarding your claim to be the GM of WROC-AM, I find that very hard to believe considering that in previous posts Mike Doyle just used his last name. Upon checking I discovered that the number of posts from Mr. Doyle and yours are different. And since its unlikely Mike Doyle would log on under two different handles, it is evident that you are not who you claim to be.

For your information, since the winter ratings have yet to be released for the Rochester market, the most recent book (fall 2005) showed WROC-AM registering a 0.9 rating in the 12+ category. So I wouldn’t be bragging about 950-AM’s ratings considering that WRUR-FM, a college radio station, had a 0.5 share.

The only reason WROC-AM is carrying the Air America format in the first place is because the station failed miserably in its attempt to steal listeners away from WHAM. Remember just a few years ago WROC-AM was carrying conservative talk plus promoting its local ties to the Rochester community with the hiring of Allan Harris and his morning show. We know what happened to both Mr. Harris and conservative talk on 950-AM.

Oh by the way I recently drove by WROC-AM’s transmitter site in Brighton on my way to the doctor’s office and noticed there is a realtor’s sign posted on the property. I wouldn’t be surprised that if Air America bombs, Entercom either sells the station to some religious group, or lets the frequency go dark and sell the property to a real estate developer for a few million dollars.
<P ID="signature">______________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them".</P>
 
Re: And we don't just run AAR

>Keep scrolling down...it's down there. Funny, it doesn't bother me.

We can see that it doesn't bother you, otherwise you would've replied three times within a half hour.
 
Re: Me Thinks Someone Is Telling Tall Tales Here.

But if you are the GM of WROC, then the switch to this programming was just as stupid as WKBW switch.

Thanks!
 
Re: And we don't just run AAR

> > In addition, we don't only run Air America. We run
> Franken, and their morning shows, but also run Stephanie
> Miller, Ed Schultz (Jones) and programming from the WOR
> radio network.
>
> Keep scrolling down...it's down there. Funny, it doesn't
> bother me.
>
> WROC has showed in every ratings book. He's just not
> > scrolling down far enough.
> >
> > And I'm the GM of the station Bill.
> >
> > I don't think we're going away. Sorry.
> >
>


==> Here we go again. Air America IMHO is a welcome addition to all the crap right wing neocons that have dominated the talk radio airwaves for many years. As is independent lib talkers like what is posted above. Granted, WROC should have more home-grown hosts to make it more local (Allen Harris) and will never match WHAM in the ratings, but at least they could make a dent over time especially with WBEE in the mix. That is the intention anyways. I believe the only reason WROC doesnt get better ratings is not the shows themselves, but the signal coverage is weak, and not enough advertizements on billboards, paper, etc. I live in the city and have no problems day or night. As far as AA going down the tubes completely, I dont think so but even if it does, they're be enough sane left wingers talkers that would fill the bill. At least the liberal/democrats now have a place to get out another point of view. I'm one happy camper who thanks WROC for bringing us the "other" side.

Oooops, I meant this reply going to BillFranklin, sorry mdoyle
 
Re: Me Thinks Someone Is Telling Tall Tales Here.

> But if you are the GM of WROC, then the switch to this
> programming was just as stupid as WKBW switch.
>
> Thanks!
>

==> yadda yadda Be gone, before another house drops on you too!
 
> Don't worry. Membership is free.

And Reading Is Fundamental, but doesn't always happen.

> WROC-AM, Air America's Rochester affiliate, does not show in
> the last four Arbitron books.

Uh... we were just talking about it last ratings period. It -does- show in the books.

> That's for starters.

Not a good start.

> Go to radioequalizer.blogspot.com for more information about
> the network's problems.

Oh please. The Unequalizer is about as credible on Air America as Radio Pyongyang is about the Bush Administration.

His site relies entirely on anonymous sources which many of us suspect he just makes up, conclusions that he rests on document dumps that, in fact, don't come close to justifying them, and a mega case of professional jealousy, being that he is a failed right wing talk show host trying to make a new career out of being a Drudge-like fiction mill for anti libtalk hit pieces. His 15 minutes of fame rest exclusively on Bill O'Reilly's show where he is touted as an independent "analyst."

Case dismissed.
 
Re: And we don't just run AAR

> Stephanie Miller

Who I remain convinced is going to be the big breakout star for libtalk stations along with the always under-appreciated and time shifted Randi Rhodes. Both actually know the business. Lionel's show is interesting, if a bit unfocused, however.
 
Re: Me Thinks Someone Is Telling Tall Tales Here.

> The only reason WROC-AM is carrying the Air America format
> in the first place is because the station failed miserably
> in its attempt to steal listeners away from WHAM. Remember
> just a few years ago WROC-AM was carrying conservative talk
> plus promoting its local ties to the Rochester community
> with the hiring of Allan Harris and his morning show. We
> know what happened to both Mr. Harris and conservative talk
> on 950-AM.

WROC programmed the conservative leftovers WHAM didn't want. Imagine that, people weren't rushing to listen to Bill O'Reilly and Laura Ingraham when they could listen to the same thing from bigger names up the dial. I credit WROC for taking a chance on libtalk, even though it is run these days like a turnkey operation. It's far better for a lot of us than the alternatives like, say, ANOTHER sports talk outfit, or a relay of an FM station, or brokered time.

Could they do better? You bet, especially if they actually promoted it. But considering the state of AM radio outlets that aren't the dominant news/talk outlet in the market, I'm not sure how much better.
 
Re: Bill's wrong

> WROC has showed in every ratings book. He's just not
> scrolling down far enough.
>
> And I'm the GM of the station Bill.
>
> I don't think we're going away. Sorry.
>
I did scroll down through the list at allaccess.com.

Your company is using AA todraw enough listeners away from WHAM so WBEE can claim the market's largest listenership.

It's no big seceret to those of us who follow local radio.

Thanks for playing.
 
> > Don't worry. Membership is free.
>
> And Reading Is Fundamental, but doesn't always happen.
>
> > WROC-AM, Air America's Rochester affiliate, does not show
> in
> > the last four Arbitron books.
>
> Uh... we were just talking about it last ratings period. It
> -does- show in the books.
>
> > That's for starters.
>
> Not a good start.
>
> > Go to radioequalizer.blogspot.com for more information
> about
> > the network's problems.
>
> Oh please. The Unequalizer is about as credible on Air
> America as Radio Pyongyang is about the Bush Administration.
>
I knew you'd would go on the attack.
>
> His site relies entirely on anonymous sources which many of
> us suspect he just makes up, conclusions that he rests on
> document dumps that, in fact, don't come close to justifying
> them, and a mega case of professional jealousy, being that
> he is a failed right wing talk show host trying to make a
> new career out of being a Drudge-like fiction mill for anti
> libtalk hit pieces. His 15 minutes of fame rest exclusively
> on Bill O'Reilly's show where he is touted as an independent
> "analyst."
>
You elitists can't, or won't, deal with other people's perspectives, so you start bashing.

When your boys come out with a report by an anonymous source, you won't say who it is. But, when a similar report comes from a source other than than the elitist media, you attack it.

> Case dismissed.

>You should be dismissed.
 
Re: And we don't just run AAR

> > In addition, we don't only run Air America. We run
> Franken, and their morning shows, but also run Stephanie
> Miller, Ed Schultz (Jones) and programming from the WOR
> radio network.
>
I heard them.

Miller needs sounds effects and help from her cronies.

Where did I hear this approach before?

Oh, yes, our hometown hero, "Wease."

How original.

Schultz, he's just another liberal who spouts the same party line (sounds something like this: "Right-wingers shouldn't hog up all the time on talk-radio.").

Left-wingers can't draw number's in this genre, let alone numbers close to those of even Bob Lonsberry.

You might say "Wease" does, but he's a shock-jock who is too intellectually lazy to try being a talk-host, so he doesn't count!

> Keep scrolling down...it's down there. Funny, it doesn't
> bother me.
>
> WROC has showed in every ratings book. He's just not
> > scrolling down far enough.
> >
> > And I'm the GM of the station Bill.
> >
> > I don't think we're going away. Sorry.
> >
>
 
Re: And we don't just run AAR

> Miller needs sounds effects and help from her cronies.
>
> Where did I hear this approach before?
>
> Oh, yes, our hometown hero, "Wease."

No surprise, Stephanie Miller was Wease's original co-host in the 80s and they evolved that morning show on WCMF together, back in the day.

> Schultz, he's just another liberal who spouts the same party
> line (sounds something like this: "Right-wingers shouldn't
> hog up all the time on talk-radio.").

No one should monopolize an entier format. It's one reason why until Air America and others like it came along, talk radio's total share of the audience was gradually falling across the nation, the decline beginning right after the format's peak in the fall 1994 and winter 1995 books.

> Left-wingers can't draw number's in this genre, let alone
> numbers close to those of even Bob Lonsberry.

Lonsberry's not drawing Lonsberry numbers any more either. He hasn't been able to gain back the audience WHAM lost after his infamous orangutan incident.

> You might say "Wease" does, but he's a shock-jock who is too
> intellectually lazy to try being a talk-host, so he doesn't
> count!

Since Wease is a calmer, friendlier and far less strident host than Lonsberry or Savage and never resorts to the level of personal attack that Lonsberry did against Johnson and Michael Savage does against everyone, he's far less of a "shock jock" than they. Compared to Lonsberry or Savage, Wease is the second coming of Jack Slattery.

But don't bother Bill with facts or logic.
 
Sure It Could Be Better...but!

> I credit WROC for
> taking a chance on libtalk, even though it is run these days
> like a turnkey operation. It's far better for a lot of us
> than the alternatives like, say, ANOTHER sports talk outfit,
> or a relay of an FM station, or brokered time.
>
> Could they do better? You bet, especially if they actually
> promoted it. But considering the state of AM radio outlets
> that aren't the dominant news/talk outlet in the market, I'm
> not sure how much better.
>
The ONLY reason for WROC-AM existence is Entercom’s attempts to pull enough of an audience away from WHAM so that WBEE can remain number one in the market; period.

They failed with conservative talk, so now what’s left, Air America. And while Air America did, for a short time, take an audience away from another radio station; it wasn’t WHAM but WXXI-AM. But eventually people went back to WXXI, even though that station’s overall numbers are not what they were just a few years ago. And the loss of WXXI’s audience has nothing to do with Bob Edwards departure to XM satellite radio either.

You’re correct that WROC is a latchkey operation and not properly promoted. On the other hand why should Entercom promote a “throw-away” station anyways when it wants to concentrate on its two biggest draws; WBEE and the “BUZZ.”

So what alternatives does WROC-AM have? Here are a few suggestions.

WHAM might draw conservative-minded listeners to their station, but remember those listeners are in an older age demographic. If WROC wants to tap into that demographic then use a syndicated or automated music format for that generation. The Rochester market does not have a so-called “easy listening” station. What harm would there be in playing background, or elevator music as it’s commonly known? I’m sure that format would be cheaper than paying for Air America.

Either that or WROC-AM should try to cut into WLGZ 990-AM’s audience by playing music from the 40s to the 90s, but with an emphasis on local news and traffic during morning and afternoon drive.

The final alternative is either sell 950-AM to another broadcasting operation, or take the station dark and just sell the property where the transmitter is located to some real estate developer for a few million dollars. Then take that money and put it into promoting the successful stations Entercom has.


<P ID="signature">______________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them".</P>
 
WHAT !!!!

> Wease is the second coming of Jack Slattery.
>

Not to parrot Lloyd Bensen Bob but I knew and worked with Jack Slattery for many years and Brother Wease, who I do admire, is no Jack Slattery.

First Jack came from a different generation of broadcasters who didn’t rely on profanity or gutter-humor to get laughs. The team of Jack Slattery and George Haefner is perhaps the best radio duos this community ever had. There isn’t anyone on the air today that can come close to Jack and George in my opinion.

I grant you that Brother Wease has done some wonderful things, starting by making WCMF a major player in Rochester radio. His battle with sinus cancer showed us what a brave person he is. But stating that Wease is the second coming of Jack Slattery is going a bit too far, in my opinion.


<P ID="signature">______________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them".</P>
 
> You elitists can't, or won't, deal with other people's
> perspectives, so you start bashing.

Being factually wrong isn't a "perspective" ... it's being factually wrong.

> When your boys come out with a report by an anonymous
> source, you won't say who it is. But, when a similar report
> comes from a source other than than the elitist media, you
> attack it.

What anonymous source report is that? Show me.

I personally debunked at least three Unequalizer "reports" by doing what so few seem willing to do - pick up a phone and call the subject or the incredibly rare public sourcing on his stories. He claimed Air America's current corporate heads were under criminal investigation - the NYC DOI denied that completely and we've since seen it play out accordingly. He picked up the previously debunked claim that Randi Rhodes was under investigation by the Secret Service for threatening Bush's life. But that turned out to be false too and he ran the story even after it was debunked as a Drudge fantasy. Then he said that a legal filing that he claims to have gotten on the QT (because legal proceedings that aren't subject to a gag order are SO hard to get), proves that Al Franken was knee deep in a corruption scandal. He never bothered to show where in the document it said that - he just linked to it hoping people wouldn't bother to wade through it looking.

But I did, and not only didn't it prove what he was claiming, it countered it. You have to be pretty stupid to post a massive PDF file to back up your story when it actually indicts it.

BTW, Matt Drudge himself just got his you-know caught in a wringer accusing David Gregory of being drunk on Imus' show, which also turned out to be nonsense. If these are the people you are trusting to get your news from, it's no wonder why you post the things you do.

You also brought out the label gun with the "elitist media" nonsense. I am no big supporter of corporate media which will give an hour to Rita Sucrets Cosby and won't spend a half hour doing in-depth reporting or allowing screaming chat shows to serve as real news content. But when compared to a website that makes it up as it goes along, story after story, I'll take the PROFESSIONAL media over an unemployed blogger anyday.

Brian thinks of himself as some sort of Matt Drudge of the Talk Radio world, and because he parrots a particular viewpoint, he's royalty on Fox News chat shows where they suggest he's "independent." Yeah, sure he is.

BTW, I rebutted Mr. Baloney on his own site, point by point. In return, he tried to write a hit piece on me (and quietly zapped most of the comments). It's always easier to make up attacks than to actually deal with facts, and it's always harder to check out what people claim instead of just blindly repeating it.
 
Re: Bill's wrong

> It's no big seceret to those of us who follow local radio.
>
> Thanks for playing.

So is this your mea culpa for getting your original claim wrong?
 
Re: Sure It Could Be Better...but!

> They failed with conservative talk, so now what’s left, Air
> America. And while Air America did, for a short time, take
> an audience away from another radio station; it wasn’t WHAM
> but WXXI-AM.

I think it's too early to suggest Air America has peaked. The format needs tinkering and some better talent, and many stations are going outside the box to find it. Miller is the best example so far. After all, we're into year two. I remember year two for Limbaugh was him begging for calls on flea powered affiliates. Locally WYSL used to carry him in the late 1980s before it moved to WHAM.

> But eventually people went back to WXXI, even
> though that station’s overall numbers are not what they were
> just a few years ago. And the loss of WXXI’s audience has
> nothing to do with Bob Edwards departure to XM satellite
> radio either.

Some people went back. I haven't been one of them, except for Bob Smith's show when there is an interesting guest on (particularly historians always draw me). Smith's show would be an excellent candidate for podcasting, especially for people to pick and choose from subjects that appeal to them. The national NPR stuff for me just isn't as interesting to me anymore. During pledge drives, I am totally gone. I won't listen at all.

It feels good to have more than one choice for talk that doesn't run conservative or go on about sports.

> You’re correct that WROC is a latchkey operation and not
> properly promoted. On the other hand why should Entercom
> promote a “throw-away” station anyways when it wants to
> concentrate on its two biggest draws; WBEE and the “BUZZ.”

Presumably because people interested in hearing Randi Rhodes are probably not interested in listening to WBEE. Until Brokeback Mountain came out, my exposure to country and western music was limited to car ads for the NASCAR set. There is zero chance I am going to leap to WBEE for anything. Of course, I don't ever listen to the "Buzz" either. To me, music and talk is apples and oranges. I'm not sure how many people are sitting in their cars wondering whether it should be Lonsberry, Franken, REO Speedwagon, or Alan Jackson. :)

> WHAM might draw conservative-minded listeners to their
> station, but remember those listeners are in an older age
> demographic.

You mean ancient. Listening to the phone-ins during Lonsberry's segment, it's pretty obvious who is listening.

> If WROC wants to tap into that demographic then
> use a syndicated or automated music format for that
> generation. The Rochester market does not have a so-called
> “easy listening” station. What harm would there be in
> playing background, or elevator music as it’s commonly
> known? I’m sure that format would be cheaper than paying for
> Air America.

I was probably one of the youngest fans out there for WEZO. A teenager who listens to and enjoys Paul Mauriat, James Last, and other beautiful music format staples. But those days are gone forever. I remember my grandfather who used to have that station locked into the Buick jumped ship in the mid-1980s and he went to soft country. Some others jumped to MOYL/standards. The younger audience stuck with WEZO when it went to WRMM. The beautiful music format could work on a digital subchannel or on satellite radio like XM's Sunny (Sirius interestingly doesn't even bother with an equivalent), but it's just not going to fly as a primary format.

AM is also still AM for music, and you can get away with that with an older audience playing standards, but I'm not sure what kind of draw you can expect with other music formats. Ask AM classical music stations how they are doing.

Air America is probably the best format in years that *could* get younger audiences to discover there is an AM button on their car radios and it's not a reference to time, but only if it's promoted. Right now, I think Metro Justice is the only grass roots group out there promoting WROC among their young supporters.

> Either that or WROC-AM should try to cut into WLGZ 990-AM’s
> audience by playing music from the 40s to the 90s, but with
> an emphasis on local news and traffic during morning and
> afternoon drive.

But why bother dividing up such a small piece of the pie? How big is the ultimate audience for standards?

> The final alternative is either sell 950-AM to another
> broadcasting operation, or take the station dark and just
> sell the property where the transmitter is located to some
> real estate developer for a few million dollars. Then take
> that money and put it into promoting the successful stations
> Entercom has.

Outside of Canada which has AM transmitters dropping like flies as they head off to FM, I wonder how many American cities of our size have AM licenses that go dark and stay dark. I can't imagine that many.

I think WROC should stick with what they have and get more creative about finding their audience. They can certainly do better than .9.
 
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