THE SINGERS AND STANDARDS FORMAT SHOULD BE ON WIP AM 610

[doowopvault]

Bohemian coffee houses? Hardly indicative of something that works on a wide scale as a money-making business unto itself.

You just proved my point.The goal of developing something of quality is of no interrest anymore. All we have are a bunch of cookie cutter stations, sticking to the same old playlist, playing the same old artists that are the flavor of the month,in the same rotation, the same news stories from API or UPI and the same syndicated talk shows.

No emphasis on quality, no creativity, no ingenuity, NOTHING!!. Let's just sound like everyone else. But as long as we are making money, it's fine. Again, this is the point, with true music lovers it's a labor of love.with the corporations it's a business venture.This is why some much of what you hear on the radio sucks, And this is why listeners are dying off like fish in a polluted lake.

 

[doowopvault]

And by the way, Bohemians, people in their 50's, 60's and 70's are listeners too!!! and writing them off, not playing what they want to hear is also not indicative of running a successful station, which is what radio has been doing for years. But on brighter side, radio is not dead, it just smells like it is.

 

[jhguthlac]

I live in a university town and am amazed at the number of college students who are into 50's rockabilly big time? Is it a fad? Probably. But it shows the younger demos will listen.

 

[doowopvault]

I live in a university town and am amazed at the number of college students who are into 50's rockabilly big time? Is it a fad? Probably. But it shows the younger demos will listen.
[/quote



You are right my man about the students, but Fad? no.When you love a specific genre, you will love it for years to come. I've been listening to Doo Wop and r&b vocal groups since 1963, haven't stopped for 50 years. Didn't matter what new sound was popular at the moment, didn't matter what new crap the Corporate Lables and radio stations were pushing. I would never allow anyone to mold my tastes, was never a bandwagon hopper, you love what you love and nothing will change that. Good music never goes out of style, it's just handed down from one generation to the next to enjoy. I see this with the young listeners who follow my show.

 

[luperm]

You just proved my point.The goal of developing something of quality is of no interrest anymore. All we have are a bunch of cookie cutter stations, sticking to the same old playlist, playing the same old artists that are the flavor of the month,in the same rotation, the same news stories from API or UPI and the same syndicated talk shows.

No emphasis on quality, no creativity, no ingenuity, NOTHING!!. Let's just sound like everyone else. But as long as we are making money, it's fine. Again, this is the point, with true music lovers it's a labor of love.with the corporations it's a business venture.This is why some much of what you hear on the radio sucks, And this is why listeners are dying off like fish in a polluted lake.

No. That IS the point!
This is a business, not a hobby.
The business is driven by ADVERTISERS who pay the bills. They determine the demographics that they want to reach, and radio programs in an attempt to attract them. You don't want to hear it, but advertisers generally don't want to reach people in the 50-70 year old range.
Your anecdotal observations are not a replacement for solid, researched business decisions.
Go pay $30 million for a radio station and put a format on it that is, in your opinion, a quality creative format...with what you believe to be unbiased news.
Go ahead. See how much money you make attracting advertisers.
Then, see what your shareholders have to say...

 

[doowopvault]

WOW LOL LOL LOL, my point could not have been proven any better, thank you, really!!! thank you very much. And this is why radio sucks today, it's all about cost cutting and satisfying share holders.By the way, it was ALSO a business back in the 50's, 60's and 70's,they also had advertisers paying the bills, but why was radio fun to listen to then, but not today?

Because as is the case whenever something becomes corporatised, what is first and formost is not profit, it is to make the biggest amount of profit possible!!!. Now starts the cost cutting, laying off, automation systems, getting rid of on-air personalities etc.

This all results in quality not being a consideration, just the bottom line.

 

[John1]

An Adult Standards on the AM dial can do well. Remember WDUV, TAMPA is and has been the #1 station in that market for sometime. Admittedly it is an FM station but I believe if programmed right, a station onthe AM dial doing the same thing, can do ok. It won't lead the market but it should garner a 3.0. WIP sports on the AM will eventually drop below 1.0 when all their listeners realize "Hey It's on the FM!"

If WIP flips and picks up WDUV'S playlist, I will certainly give them a listen.

joshzz

The Dove isn't a 'singers & standards' format - straight up soft adult contemporary from the 1960's-1980's almost a copy of the Magic 103 or Kiss 100 playlists of the era, with 'beautiful music' format imaging, also the same for Easy 93 in Miami. No 'standards' vocalists, no instrumentals. The target audience would be in their 50's - 60's, younger than a 'standards' audience (who would probably be someone who was alive during WWII.) I agree this would probably do better overall numbers than the sports simulcast ratings on WIP & could still allow for overflow games from 94.1. But it would be straight music, no personality-info driven programming like the old WIP.

As far as revivals of older music on campus & clubs - that doesn't always translate to radio listening. More likely they'll add a few favorite songs on their ipod & search for similar songs on Pandora.

 

[luperm]

WOW LOL LOL LOL, my point could not have been proven any better, thank you, really!!! thank you very much. And this is why radio sucks today, it's all about cost cutting and satisfying share holders.By the way, it was ALSO a business back in the 50's, 60's and 70's,they also had advertisers paying the bills, but why was radio fun to listen to then, but not today?

Because as is the case whenever something becomes corporatised, what is first and formost is not profit, it is to make the biggest amount of profit possible!!!. Now starts the cost cutting, laying off, automation systems, getting rid of on-air personalities etc.

This all results in quality not being a consideration, just the bottom line.

The unfortunate reality for radio is that today there are a lot more players fighting for the same (or less) advertising budget than there were 50 years ago. The notion that if you somehow concoct a format/station that you believe is a higher "quality" will magically create advertising dollars makes no sense.

 

[imhomerjay]

It most certainly makes no sense.

Audiences change, tastes change, businesses change...yet you have some small chorus of people who can't accept that and move on (hardly unique to radio).

 

[klutch00]

WHAT tried with some of the WPEN staff but couldn't make it.

I think we all knew that WHAT had almost everything going against it; the least of which was an inferior signal! With most of the audience residing outside of the station's primary service area, and with the station being a class C (class IV), it didn't take a genius to figure out that the station had its work cut out for them.

Having said all that for commercial radio, I am surprised that WRDV Hatboro can continue to raise enough money during their Fall fundrive to keep a big band & swing & classic standards format on the air every weekday. I would think that the audience who would like that - well over 75+ - would not be able to give enough to keep it going, I keep expecting the weekend doo-wop/r&b oldies format to some day take over weekdays even though its not exactly a money demo, either! More power to them!

I think it's time to look for alternative means of funding marginal broadcast outlets, especially on AM! Such means could and should include fundraising from donations, activities and so forth. This might be a way for said outlets to keep innovative programming on the air! It might also behoove non-profit organizations or schools to buy some of these stations.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

If WIP flips and picks up WDUV'S playlist, I will certainly give them a listen.

Porcine creatures will sprout wings and go airborne, first.

Look, I understand the "fantasy baseball" aspect of radio discussions like this, but CBS Radio will NOT flip WIP/610 to standards. Never! Ever! It won't happen!

Standards has an aging audience far beyond attempts to sell it. I'm told one AM in our area had an average audience age 76...76! It eventually moved into oldies, and it doesn't play any 50's music these days, either.

Look, I believe you can sell to older audiences beyond conventional wisdom... but a listener base with an AVERAGE age of 76 can't be sold to ANYONE. No offense to anyone in their mid-70's reading. I'll say the same a few decades from now, if I'M still around at 76...

 

[klutch00]

Klutch, I did exactly what you describe at a radio station back in the 90's. Since that's 20 years ago, you can't really anticipate how it would do today. It was on AM, medium market. 50's and 60's standards. Selected "smooth jazz" acts. Softer AC from the 70's. Worked very well ratings wise. How would it work in 2012? Can't be really sure. This market lacks Soft AC and 50/60's Oldies. And smooth jazz was a "90's thing."

I think something similar (although not the same) what you've described is already being done today; albeit on satellite. I'm talking about "Timeless Cool" http://www.timelesscoolcustomprogramming.com/. WROW is also doing respectable with what is perhaps a more conservative version of what you seemed to be doing back then.

 

[doowopvault]

WOW LOL LOL LOL, my point could not have been proven any better, thank you, really!!! thank you very much. And this is why radio sucks today, it's all about cost cutting and satisfying share holders.By the way, it was ALSO a business back in the 50's, 60's and 70's,they also had advertisers paying the bills, but why was radio fun to listen to then, but not today?

Because as is the case whenever something becomes corporatised, what is first and formost is not profit, it is to make the biggest amount of profit possible!!!. Now starts the cost cutting, laying off, automation systems, getting rid of on-air personalities etc.

This all results in quality not being a consideration, just the bottom line.

The unfortunate reality for radio is that today there are a lot more players fighting for the same (or less) advertising budget than there were 50 years ago. The notion that if you somehow concoct a format/station that you believe is a higher "quality" will magically create advertising dollars makes no sense.

So what is the answer? to lower your standards and play what everyone else is playing, to stay up there and follow the pack? No wonder the quality of everything is bobsledding downhill, including people.

 

[luperm]

So what is the answer? to lower your standards and play what everyone else is playing, to stay up there and follow the pack? No wonder the quality of everything is bobsledding downhill, including people.

The answer is that station owners need to find ways to make money. The revenues are not getting bigger...they are getting smaller...and what you suggest costs money, with a smaller chance of success than CHR, Hot AC, or news/talk/sports, or whatever.

You are not likely a desirable demographic (no offense). Just like you don't like the way radio sounds today, I bet that there are many "young" people who just don't care for what you are into. Good radio is different things to different people. It's a totally subjective, and a potentially polarizing discussion.

It's not all bad news, is it? Today, there are more ways than ever to hear the sort of things you want. It's not just AM and FM. There is satellite radio, HD radio, Internet streams, Pandora, etc. etc. Maybe it's not the personality driven formats of yesteryear, but it is what it is.

 

[observer2]

As a kid in the late 60s and early 70s in this city, I disliked the prevalence of standards, so-called "beautiful music", and late 50s-early 60s oldies on the dial. None of that was "my" music. As an adult in this time, I still don't like any of that music, but I do think it's unfortunate that the pendulum has swung so far the other way, and it's not available to those who do. Eventually, the music I listen to will become scarcer as well.

But there is nothing short of content control that would change that. We're not in a political or regulatory environment where that is likely to resurface.

Although the thread is about 610 WIP specifically, I do wonder whether AM will eventually become the place where standards resurface as in Toronto on 740. I also wonder why some of the daytimers with better signals (think 860) haven't come around to this music. WHAT is a hard catch when you got beyond a few miles from its tower, so I can see why that might have been tough.

 

[imhomerjay]

They haven't come around to it because there's little to nothing to come around to. The handful of exceptions are just that--exceptions, not a model for success that can be emulated across on some wide scale.

Narrow, niche formats benefit from the newer (relative to broadcasting) technologies like satelitte and the web. There may not be enough people in city A to make a viable business out of whatever pet format you want to pick out of the ol' hat, but when you combine the sliver in city A with the sliver in city B et al, maybe you can make a go of something. It's not unlike cable TV--you can't make a go out of a dedicated cooking or game show or pre-school channel over the air in every city, but you can make a good business out of it on the wider scale that platform gives you.

 

[klutch00]

As a kid in the late 60s and early 70s in this city, I disliked the prevalence of standards, so-called "beautiful music", and late 50s-early 60s oldies on the dial. None of that was "my" music. As an adult in this time, I still don't like any of that music, but I do think it's unfortunate that the pendulum has swung so far the other way, and it's not available to those who do. Eventually, the music I listen to will become scarcer as well.

But there is nothing short of content control that would change that. We're not in a political or regulatory environment where that is likely to resurface.

I'm younger than you and grew up in the Baltimore Washington area, but had family and friends who live(d) in the Philly Area. Like you, I was never and am still not a fan of traditional easy-listening. I felt it was a good thing for the format to be put out to pasture. But I'm digressing.

Broadcasters should seriously look into trying to buy under-performing and marginal AM operations and do something innovative with them. Maybe free-form could return. Below, I'll share some thoughts about raising income.

Although the thread is about 610 WIP specifically, I do wonder whether AM will eventually become the place where standards resurface as in Toronto on 740. I also wonder why some of the daytimers with better signals (think 860) haven't come around to this music. WHAT is a hard catch when you got beyond a few miles from its tower, so I can see why that might have been tough.

I came up with a similar idea in another thread quite awhile ago. With much 'international' programming being moved from 1540 to 860, I was thinking that the former would be a decent facility for there to be a standards/big band/jazz format or something similar. Moreover, It's high time for operators of AM facilities these days, especially marginal ones, to strongly consider means other than or in addition to advertisement for sources of revenue. Said means could include asking for donations, with the higher amounts allowing listeners to be awarded a 'prize' of some sort; sponsoring an event like a concert, dance, festival, car show; or something similar.

 

[imhomerjay]

There's only so much money to be had from listeners. Begging for handouts to get a tote bag is already being done, and if what you put on is a niche format to begin with, your potential donor pool is already limited.

 

[luperm]

There's only so much money to be had from listeners. Begging for handouts to get a tote bag is already being done, and if what you put on is a niche format to begin with, your potential donor pool is already limited.

Some of these "marginal" AM facilities should be taken dark.

 

[klutch00]

There's only so much money to be had from listeners.

This is true; but there's only so much money to be had from advertising! Most of your classical stations are now non-commercial yet still bring in a respectable amount of revenue. Other college and non-comm. operations do the same. If fundraising is such a 'dead-end' Then what do you say to operators of radio stations like WAMU, WPFW & WETA Washington DC, WBJC Baltimore, WTMD Towson MD, KUOM Minneapolis, KVOQ Denver, WRDV Warmeister PA; and so forth?

Begging for handouts to get a tote bag is already being done, and if what you put on is a niche format to begin with, your potential donor pool is already limited.

You don't have to limit prizes to 'a tote bag' or whatnot. You can (and should) be innovative. There are some niche formats which can do well on an outlet which survives on donations.