ThinkProgress: Air America To Declare Bankruptcy

[evnlee]

Re: A Point of Semantics

As a fan of semantics, maybe you should get clear on the distinction between a show and a format.

One hint: Shows (or programs or broadcasts) existed from the beginning of radio.
Formats started in the early 50s. Todd Storz invented the radio format.

Rush did not create anything.
Barry Gray at WMCA invented the call in talk show.
Ben Hoberman at KABC and Robert Hyland at KMOX invented what is now the news-talk format.
Joe Pyne invented the conservative political talk show.
Others, including Wally George and Bob Grant were doing conservative talk shows before Rush spun his first top 40 record on the radio in Cape Girardeau.
Rush got into talk radio by taking over a conservative talk show at KFBK from host Morton Downey, Jr.

How does AAR get credit for creating a 'format'?

Rush created a talk 'format', and changed radio. Stern did the same with 'shockjock' radio.

AAR took an existing format and parroted it. They didn't do anything 'new', they just took what was out there and copied it ( poorly).

There were liberal ( progressives, whatever ) hosts and liberal stations before AAR came into being, but IMHO, you create a 'format' when your the first one doing it.

It's all semantics, but I think it's pretty funny.

Hopefully this bodes well for Miller. She's the best of the bunch. I think she understands it's about 'entertainment' and 'selling stuff'. Too many of the maudlin 'talent' AAR used didn't get it.

Fair enough. Your probably right about the use of 'format'. Since liberal talk was around before AAR, I guess I can give them credit for the 'packaging' of liberal talk since they took it to larger syndicated levels.

But I disagree about Rush. As well as Stern, he has made more of an impact on modern radio, and took an existing model and turned it into a huge, $$$ success on a syndicated level.

If I admit defeat and agree with you that AAR did create the 'liberal talk format' then would you agree that Rush also created the 'conservative talk format'? On a syndicated level?

 

[fred flintstone]

If I admit defeat and agree with you that AAR did create the 'liberal talk format' then would you agree that Rush also created the 'conservative talk format'? On a syndicated level?

Defeat? This is just conversation.

Much as harmony appeals to me, I think I should point out that Joe Pyne had a conservative radio talk show in syndication in 1966. ABC had conservative hosts on their talk network starting in 1981 (off hand, I recall Dennis Praeger, now on Salem, was one of them; I'm sure others can add any other names). They also had Michael Jackson on nationally, as well, making him the first syndicated liberal host.

However, none of these came close to Rush's level of success or his longevity in national syndication (although various hosts have enjoyed long careers on the local level). Rush was the first to demonstrate that a syndicated show (i.e., a non-local show) could build an audience (during weekday daytime, even on strong and on well-established talk stations). Rush's success encouraged others to enter syndication and expanded the talk format from around a hundred stations to well over a thousand. His success led talk stations to evolve from full service talk (including advice and lifestyle programs) to conservative political talk formats; he didn't create the format but it was built around him. Rush made AM radio viable again (at least for clear channel and regional stations); when he started, banks would not make loans to buy AM stations. Rush brought the personality style of AM Top 40 radio DJs to talk radio. What Rush does, others may have done first. Rush did them better and he recombined various ingredients to improve the recipe. But he stands on the shoulders of others.

So does Howard Stern. (In Stern's case, Imus and especially radios first - possibly best ever - "bad boy" morning drive personality, Arthur Godfrey.

 

[Ultimajock]

Re: A Point of Semantics

Rush did not create anything.
Barry Gray at WMCA invented the call in talk show.
Ben Hoberman at KABC and Robert Hyland at KMOX invented what is now the news-talk format.
Joe Pyne invented the conservative political talk show.
Others, including Wally George and Bob Grant were doing conservative talk shows before Rush spun his first top 40 record on the radio in Cape Girardeau.
Rush got into talk radio by taking over a conservative talk show at KFBK from host Morton Downey, Jr.

...couple of additions here and corrections there --

1) the earliest "talk show" (in the sense we'd recognise it to be today) was Mary Margaret McBride's show on the original WABC (now WCBS) New York in 1937.
2) Paul Gibson at WBBM Chicago was taking on-air phone calls in the late 1940s, before Gray started doing the same in New York. (Arthur Godfrey claimed for years that he did the same thing at WJSV Washington in the '30s, but no actual evidence of this seems to survive.)
3) Gibson and Howard Miller, the latter at a series of Chicago stations (WIND, WCFL, WMAQ), both did what would be considered politically conservative talk shows before Pyne did in Los Angeles (or Barry Farber did at WMCA New York). What Pyne started was the *confrontational* talk show type, with Bob Grant as an apprentice of sorts, filling in occasionally for Pyne while his main beat at KABC (and, I believe, KLAC later) was sportscasting.
4) While there were indeed liberal talk hosts in the '50s and '60s -- including Michael Jackson at KABC Los Angeles and Larry King at WIOD Miami -- the vast majority of those hosts did not make their political views the main reason for the show's existence (in both Jackson and King's cases, their shows were primarily celebrity and topical interview programs). It was not until Limbaugh's show that the host's politics became the primary element and opposing viewpoints were screened out, creating the junk that gluts the market nowadays. And stylistically Limbaugh owes everything he's ever done to ripping off Larry Lujack's WLS/WCFL Chicago shows.

 

[Ultimajock]

So does Howard Stern. (In Stern's case, Imus and especially radios first - possibly best ever - "bad boy" morning drive personality, Arthur Godfrey.

...Stern's comparison is certainly not with Arthur Godfrey; from the '40s, Henry Morgan's 15-minute Mutual network show is a much closer comparison. His real source always was Steve Dahl & Garry Meier at WLUP/WLS Chicago; Stern got so good at copying Dahl&Meier's schtick (and Dahl&Meier coasted so long on past notoriety) that Stern was eventually able to push past the originators of his style and introduce it to the New York, Washington, Philadelphia and Los Angeles markets while Dahl&Meier kept themselves in Chicago...

 

[kaufcom]

Re: A Point of Semantics

Rush did not create anything.

I think it's fair to say that Rush and Ed McLaughlin invented syndicated conservative talk programming

Also, Evelyn's got it wrong. AAR definately was key in launching syndicated liberal talk radio. Without the seed money generated by Drobny and others associated with AAR, we would probably still have only right wing talkers on syndicated talk radio. If AAR goes down, which I think they will, they should remembered for this contribution to the talk radio format.

 

[kaufcom]

What AAR attempted to do was to create a brand name identity for their liberal talk programming. They attempted to make Progressive into a trade-mark label for their product, much as Seven-up used the term "The Uncola™" as a trade mark. Had things gone according to AAR's desires, they would have the exclusive rights to Progressive™ Talk Radio. They were hoping that the Progressive™ Talk Radio brand would be to liberal talk radio what Jack™ FM or "Solid Rock 'm Gold" was to packaged radio music formats.

Why I am not surprised that your contribution to this thread was to roll out your tedious argument about whether left wing talk radio should be called "liberal" or "progressive."

 

[fred flintstone]

Re: A Point of Semantics

I think it's fair to say that Rush and Ed McLaughlin invented syndicated conservative talk programming

As noted, others had done it before but they were the first to make a go of it and to have a lasting impact.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"Why I am not surprised that your contribution to this thread"

Why am I surprised that you didn't even read what I wrote, which referred to the attempt to turn the word "progressive" into a brand name, and instead of correcting the rather obvious mistake I made in getting the two players mixed up, or commenting on the idea of creating a marketable brand name for liberal talk radio, or any other comment on the content of my most, you just whine and kvetch like a pathetic little brat.

 

[fred flintstone]

Re: A Point of Semantics

1) the earliest "talk show" (in the sense we'd recognise it to be today) was Mary Margaret McBride's show on the original WABC (now WCBS) New York in 1937.

MMB did the same show earlier on WOR. And Ed and Pegeen Fitzgerald were doing a talk show on WOR (1930) - husband and wife chat, basically the same act Regis and Kathy Lee/Kelli do now. However, neither was a call in show.

 

[evnlee]

Re: A Point of Semantics

Rush did not create anything.

I think it's fair to say that Rush and Ed McLaughlin invented syndicated conservative talk programming

Also, Evelyn's got it wrong. AAR definately was key in launching syndicated liberal talk radio. Without the seed money generated by Drobny and others associated with AAR, we would probably still have only right wing talkers on syndicated talk radio. If AAR goes down, which I think they will, they should remembered for this contribution to the talk radio format.

I stand corrected!

 

[Radio_Realist]

I read somewhere that Al Franken claims not to know anything about AAR going bankrupt. I also read that Rob Glaser is withdrawing his financial support to AAR.

 

[fred flintstone]

I read somewhere that Al Franken claims not to know anything about AAR going bankrupt. I also read that Rob Glaser is withdrawing his financial support to AAR.

You read it here.

Stealing information from other people's posts without attribution? Hmm. Maybe you do work in radio.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Stealing information from other people's posts without attribution?

As opposed to stealing with attribution? I simply thought this information was germane to this particular thread.

 

[fred flintstone]

As opposed to stealing with attribution? I simply thought this information was germane to this particular thread.

Scott, in my judgement, it was new information and more appropriately posted to a new thread and this thread had veered off to other issues.
When you have something new to post, you are free add to a current thread, bring up an old thread or start a new thread, as in your best judgement seems most appropriate.
When I have something new to post, I will do the same.
Reasonable people may differ.
If that's not satisfactory, maybe we can move this issue the new Take It Outside board.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Scott, in my judgement, it was new information and more appropriately posted to a new thread and this thread had veered off to other issues.

Which just goes to show that your judgement isn't very good.

And who is Scott?

 

[Radio_Realist]

There's more in the AAR bankruptcy story. I just read this:

NEW YORK (AP) - Financially strapped Air America Radio, after star commentator Al Franken said his paycheck had stopped coming, acknowledged Thursday that it had laid off a few employees but insisted it has no plans to declare bankruptcy.
...
Franken, broadcasting Thursday from New York, said he was aware of the bankruptcy rumors.

"We may or may not, that's what I'm hearing," Franken said at the start of his noon broadcast. But he assured listeners that the financial problems wouldn't silence the network.
...

 

[fred flintstone]

There's more in the AAR bankruptcy story. I just read this:

NEW YORK (AP) - Financially strapped Air America Radio, after star commentator Al Franken said his paycheck had stopped coming, acknowledged Thursday that it had laid off a few employees but insisted it has no plans to declare bankruptcy.
...
Franken, broadcasting Thursday from New York, said he was aware of the bankruptcy rumors.

"We may or may not, that's what I'm hearing," Franken said at the start of his noon broadcast. But he assured listeners that the financial problems wouldn't silence the network.
...

Scott, thank you for reading my posts and promoting them.

To read the original post - and for a thread already posted on this board specifically to discuss these points - go to Franken: Paychecks stopped - Bankruptcy Possible

 

[FightingIrish]

There's more in the AAR bankruptcy story. I just read this:

NEW YORK (AP) - Financially strapped Air America Radio, after star commentator Al Franken said his paycheck had stopped coming, acknowledged Thursday that it had laid off a few employees but insisted it has no plans to declare bankruptcy.
...
Franken, broadcasting Thursday from New York, said he was aware of the bankruptcy rumors.

"We may or may not, that's what I'm hearing," Franken said at the start of his noon broadcast. But he assured listeners that the financial problems wouldn't silence the network.
...

Scott, thank you for reading my posts and promoting them.

To read the original post - and for a thread already posted on this board specifically to discuss these points - go to Franken: Paychecks stopped - Bankruptcy Possible

"How late are they on the paycheck? Not very," said Franken, who claimed he was making a joke when he told Radar online reporter John Cook that he knew the network was having cash-flow problems because "there's no cash flowing to me."

The last time the network missed a paycheck to Franken (and others) was in 2004, shortly after it launched. It was discovered that then-chairman Evan Cohen hadn't raised as much money for the network as he claimed.

Franken referred questions about his company's health to Air America officials, saying, "I'm not involved on a management level."

Air America has made "no decision to make any filing of any kind," a spokeswoman said Thursday. "We continue to operate, we just announced our fall schedule and are doing everything we can to move forward." She would not comment on Franken's missing paycheck.

http://www.startribune.com/217/story/678210.html

 

[dampier]

Scott, thank you for reading my posts and promoting them.

To read the original post - and for a thread already posted on this board specifically to discuss these points - go to Franken: Paychecks stopped - Bankruptcy Possible

Actually, the replies belong right here in this thread. You spammed the forum with multiple posts which add very little to this topic, which is just one more reason why the information from Franken belongs right here.

There is no reason to create multiple new topics on an issue just because a fragment of new information arrives. It results in threads on other topics being pushed off the first page.

 

[dampier]

Another month, another gloat-effort by O'Reilly who has basically declared to his viewers the office furniture is up for sale as the lights get turned off. Imagine him jumping the gun on this story. Alan Colmes was on to throw a few shots claiming while he did "entertaining" radio, AAR did not. Gallagher was on to tell us how much he is loved by liberal and conservative callers alike. Yeah.

I wonder how many times Fox viewers will see O'Reilly do the same story on Air America going off the air before they realize he's a blowhard.