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third sports station

R

Radio_bored-Op

...okay, if swing 1270 takes off and townsquare
media decides that jack isn't working out...
and jumps on the bandwagon of sports,
would it be too much ?? or, if done with
a full budget and done right - right from the
start, would it work ??
 
First of all, 1270 is not going to take off. Maybe Rich Gaenzler has the potential to build an audience. But national hosts in the drive-times can't compete with WGR hosts talking Bills and Sabres. Now onto your main point. Suggesting that Townsquare would provide the budget to launch a sports station is just not realistic. This is a radio group that just fired John LaMond! They're not going to spend the money needed to compete in sports.

I would argue the WGR-WNSA competition ten years ago shows two fully-staffed sports stations can't generate the audience numbers necessary for long-term success. If my memory is correct, WNSA topped a four share just once. The station was the radio home of the Sabres, and that number came during one of their playoff runs. For the most part, WNSA's ratings ranged from a 2.5 to 3.5, depending on the season. WGR, which didn't have the Bills either, was lucky to get a 2.5 -3 share. In fact, I would argue the combined ratings of WNSA and WGR probably equals what WGR just received in the Fall book.

The bottomline is that WGR now has the Bills and Sabres and established personalities. Sure, a new station could make a bid for one of them. But it would cost a lot of money. And what would Townsquare gain? It gets a 3+ share now with its computerized music format. If history is our guide here, they wouldn't get much more of an audience, and they would be spending a helluva lot more. So, it's not going to happen. A third sports station is simply not needed in Buffalo.
 
1270 is sports simply so Cumulus can add Bufflo as a market for their new venture with CBS, and clear network spots. It's going nowhere. Bull gets to play sports guy, which will get old soon since he's not giving up PM drive on The Edge. I hope that they're paying him a few extra dollars, and that it's not based on ratings.
 
Jack is too happy with their current ratings to make the change to sports.
Nice thought though. The return of an FM sports source.
If it were such a great idea, 107.7 would have gone back to sports
(as a repeater of WGR Sports radio, respectfully),
instead of the news repeater it has become.
I'm sure Entercom has already thought that one through...
 
There is really NO market in North America--not even New York City--that can give more than ONE sports station really substantial 25-54 numbers. Not even New York, where the WFAN AM/FM simulcast always seems to crack the top 10 with a 6+ share in the 3s and 25-54 shares twice that, while WEPN-FM (the ESPN O&O) barely cracks a 1.0. Sports is effectively a one-to-a-market format. Like WFAN owns it in New York, WGR owns it in Buffalo.

And the format itself is only viable in markets which have either major league sports teams providing play by play (New York and Buffalo in NY State), or big time college programs (like Syracuse). In markets that have neither, like Rochester, the sports audience is marginal for one station--and with two trying to split it, neither one cracks a 1 share 12+.
 
Bob1370 said:
In markets that have neither, like Rochester, the sports audience is marginal for one station--and with two trying to split it, neither one cracks a 1 share 12+.
Click to expand...

While the listener share may be lower, Sports Radio can have a very loyal fan base that patronizes much of the advertisers to a very high degree. While never a top spot contender in AQH or Cume, Sports radio oft times has a much greater revenue share than their market share.
 
Do a little research on the demographics of sports radio listeners. Median income and education levels are high -- twice the level of college graduates than the average -- and sports radio listeners are more likely to be professionals. Compare that to the demographics of a standards station.

The audience doesn't need to draw a huge share 12+ for it to be profitable for a station in a group, especially running a network. I would think that somewhere around a 1 share would have to be considered a success for them. Plus, they're providing an alternative for those who don't want to hear two hours of hockey, for those who don't like Jim Rome, and for those who may not like Schopp.

And that's without considering what could be brought in broadcasting and selling high school or college sports.
 
True. But the original poster asks about Jack flipping to Sports. Three sports stations in Buffalo, one an FM without a professional sports affiliation? That's crazy, if not laughable; the kind of post that makes managers snicker and laugh when they read these boards. 1270 is in a honeymoon phase with the listeners who like the one live-local daypart. Wait until 1270 begins talking high school sports or Bisons baseball. Crickets. WGR still wins most of the battles and the sports war.
 
The only way a second sports station works in any market is if you give it content worth listening to. I think you look at Buffalo and there is something to be said about the fact that people are not really huge fans of the personalities (Schopp mostly, to a point Bulldog and to a point Jeremy White). If you look at the two main personalities in Rochester (DiTullio and Matthews), people may disagree with them but people generally like them. What I am saying is if you have local talent that is a better alternative to WGR then you can make a go. Also if you are strong enough at night (I live in Rochester so I have no idea) then you can be the home for UB and High School Sports. You can rip mid-major college sports but why nobody in Upstate, NY has made a real move towards high school football and basketball will never make sense to me. In other markets and other states like PA and Ohio they are not just huge but excellent money makers and draws to their sports stations. I lived in Youngstown, OH for a couple of years and WKBN their major news/talk station devoted Friday nights to Football and were huge with studio updates and pregame and postgame wrapups. The TV stations in Rochester and Buffalo do great with high school sports highlights and that is just the highlights. Imagine being the game of the week on radio that is live and ready to go. Ok off on a tangent, my apologies.
 
BTB117 said:
The only way a second sports station works in any market is if you give it content worth listening to.
Click to expand...

The Toronto market will be a good test of that soon. It's to my understanding that the new TSN 1050 will have the hockey games now, not AM 640.
However, in the same respect of "Content worth listening to..." they hired Mike Richards for mornings and nobody's listening! He's the best it gets for competing with Fan 590 for the morning ear in the (Toronto) Sports radio business.
 
Yeziknoradio said:
BTB117 said:
The only way a second sports station works in any market is if you give it content worth listening to.
Click to expand...

The Toronto market will be a good test of that soon. It's to my understanding that the new TSN 1050 will have the hockey games now, not AM 640.
However, in the same respect of "Content worth listening to..." they hired Mike Richards for mornings and nobody's listening! He's the best it gets for competing with Fan 590 for the morning ear in the (Toronto) Sports radio business.
Click to expand...

It's a similar case in English Montreal. Bell-controlled CKGM grabbed the Habs contract away from long-time 800 CJAD. CKGM never cracks much of a large audience share, although their billing is quite strong. CKGM's Habs coverage complete's Bell Media's network such as with that they've done in Toronto with 1050.

Almost every major Canadian market has a "Team" brand. Like what's likely going on in Buffalo, national sales works a lot better when you have a network of affiliates.
 
bmcglynn said:
Almost every major Canadian market has a "Team" brand. Like what's likely going on in Buffalo, national sales works a lot better when you have a network of affiliates.
Click to expand...
Exactly! Especially given NBC and CBS launching the same week you are going to see an arms race to grab affiliates. Which is why I said in another thread that if there are more AM's with "Nothing to do" expect them to be switched to a national sports provider.
 
BTB117 said:
The only way a second sports station works in any market is if you give it content worth listening to. I think you look at Buffalo and there is something to be said about the fact that people are not really huge fans of the personalities (Schopp mostly, to a point Bulldog and to a point Jeremy White). If you look at the two main personalities in Rochester (DiTullio and Matthews), people may disagree with them but people generally like them. What I am saying is if you have local talent that is a better alternative to WGR then you can make a go. Also if you are strong enough at night (I live in Rochester so I have no idea) then you can be the home for UB and High School Sports. You can rip mid-major college sports but why nobody in Upstate, NY has made a real move towards high school football and basketball will never make sense to me. In other markets and other states like PA and Ohio they are not just huge but excellent money makers and draws to their sports stations. I lived in Youngstown, OH for a couple of years and WKBN their major news/talk station devoted Friday nights to Football and were huge with studio updates and pregame and postgame wrapups. The TV stations in Rochester and Buffalo do great with high school sports highlights and that is just the highlights. Imagine being the game of the week on radio that is live and ready to go. Ok off on a tangent, my apologies.
Click to expand...

I don't dispute anything you say here. I know high school sports are huge in other states. But that's just not the case in Western New York. It's all Bills and Sabres here. Even WGR decided at one point a few years ago to pass on UB football and basketball. Since then, WECK has embraced UB sports. But the Bulls have done little to boost WECK's numbers. Plus, high school games have aired on local radio without generating much interest. I don't know if they did so this year, but WGR tried high school games of the week in recent years. Unless you're a student or family member of a participating school, who is going to listen? I might check the score of my alma mater in the paper. I'll catch Channel 2's excellent coverage of the high school playoffs and say, "That's nice." And I'm someone who really enjoys sports. But I would argue high school sports just wouldn't sustain a sports station trying to be different. I suppose a good sales team might make money off high school games. Heck, I once worked for a small market station that sold out its inventory for bowling broadcasts. Yes, bowling on the radio! Still, the bottomline is that unless the talk is about the Bills and Sabres, it will fail to generate much of an audience.
 
This thing called the Internet has made high school broadcasts irrelevant in larger markets. The schools themselves can stream via their websites, or a booster site. There are simply too many schools to gain a big enough share of listeners to make it economically viable. Scores on Friday and Saturday are worth broadcastings, but that's about as far as it goes.

In smaller markets, high school sports get more interest because there are fewer schools, bigger rivalries, and no other games in town.
 
WGR has gone all-in with new local shows exclusively on the Bills and Sabres at a time when the Bills have been at a low point, and the NHL was on strike. It's a good thing that 1270 didn't appear sooner or WGR may have lost a few listeners. The CBS product is actually pretty good and I like the way they've imaged it.

I for one think this is going to be an interesting test for WGR. I don't think 1270 is ever going to make a huge dent, but for the first time in a long time there's a competitor devoted 100% to sports.
 
Two things.... first, Cumulus cares more about being able to say the network has a large number of affiliates, for national sales purposes, than they necessarily care about how much local business this does.

Second, they left Rome, the one thing people would recognize about this network, on WGR. Dumb dumb dumb. Then again, maybe they have to wait for a contract to run out.
 
I've heard that Rome will be going to 1270 soon, when his current contract expires. It could be addition by subtraction at WGR. Rome's act is brutally stale. WGR could use a facelift. If it were me, I'd split up the PM drive show, and Schopp & the Bulldog stand or fall on their own merits. Maybe Chris Parker would be the sports guy he was before he became Mensa Mike's buffoon.
 
I agree. I tire of mensa and the panting dog, but there's no other local choice in that slot for sports. Mensa should buy his own station, show us all how to run it, ... or not.
 
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