THIS TV, TUFF TV, OLDIE GOLDIE NETWORK ..............AND OTHER SUB CHANNELS

[gregg75]

How are the sub-channels doing in your area?

We have one LOW POWER station in Atlanta (WANN 32) that seems to making the most of sub-channels. They offer 10 TV channels (mostly old shows/movies) and about 8 sub-radio stations.

THIS TV, TUFF TV and OLDIE GOLDIE seem to be the best among them.

THIS TV (seen across the country) Patty Duke, Mr. Ed, The Outer Limits, Bat Masterson, Sea Hunt,
Highway Patrol, Pink Panther, movies and cartoons.
TUFF TV (I think this is something NEW) Similar to Retro TV and associated with them. Cisco Kid,
Daniel Boone, I Spy, Rifleman, movies and sports. Anybody else seen them?
OLDIE
GOLDIE (Atlanta may be the only place, not sure) Beverly Hillbillies, Lucy Show, Bonanza,
Roy Rodgers, westerns and movies.

What does the future hold for sub-channels? Will they ever be on cable/satellite? I have only seen Retro Tv on cable so far. Why aren't more stations making better use of sub-channels?

 

[ShawnHill1]

I wish in Los Angeles we had these services, although we do have This TV (KTLA 5.2). The nearest RTV outlet is a rimshot station from Barstow, KHIZ; they carry a partial schedule on its main subchannel, while the full schedule is on its DT2. What little classic TV shows that are available in the market are somewhat spread out between certain stations; the Fox duopoly still carries I Love Lucy on a daily basis, and Anaheim's KDOC carries The Andy Griffith Show, All in the Family, M*A*S*H, Cheers (and Frasier), the original Star Trek, the original Hawaii Five-O, the original Twilight Zone, Get Smart, and Hogan's Heroes. They recently moved Perry Mason from its longtime 12pm weekdays (after more than 20 years) to early mornings--5am.

I'm looking forward to Antenna TV when debuts, and I hope that our local cable provider (Time Warner) picks it up. They currently don't carry This TV.

 

[Tim L]

Subchannels are a mixed lot in Cleveland/Northeast Ohio. WKYC-3 just carries a 24/7 Weather map..

5-WEWS Nothing
8-WJW Nothing
19-WOIO-Weather Now (localized version of the former NBC Weather Plus) on 19.2
25-WVIZ-PBS Create, Ohio Network, PBS World and audio service for the blind
43-WUAB-This TV on 43.2
55 WBNX-Nothing
61 WQHS-Nothing

Outlying channels

17-WDLI-5 TBN channels (TBN, Enlace, Smile Of A Child. JCTV and Church Channel
23-WVPX Ion, Ion Life and Qubo
45/49-Ohio Network, Fusion (Local and Britcoms, etc, with Arts Channel overnight), V-Me and Mhz Worldview
47-WRLM (Formerly WOAC-67) TCT and TCT HD

RTV is aired locally on Low Power Combos Channel WAOH-29/WAX-35 in Akron-Cleveland and WIVM 52/WIVN 29 in Canton/New Philadelphia, Ohio(with other related translator stations in Loudonville/Wayne County, Ohio)

 

[Carmine5]

I wish in Los Angeles we had these services, although we do have This TV (KTLA 5.2). The nearest RTV outlet is a rimshot station from Barstow, KHIZ; they carry a partial schedule on its main subchannel, while the full schedule is on its DT2. What little classic TV shows that are available in the market are somewhat spread out between certain stations; the Fox duopoly still carries I Love Lucy on a daily basis, and Anaheim's KDOC carries The Andy Griffith Show, All in the Family, M*A*S*H, Cheers (and Frasier), the original Star Trek, the original Hawaii Five-O, the original Twilight Zone, Get Smart, and Hogan's Heroes. They recently moved Perry Mason from its longtime 12pm weekdays (after more than 20 years) to early mornings--5am.

I'm looking forward to Antenna TV when debuts, and I hope that our local cable provider (Time Warner) picks it up. They currently don't carry This TV.

Actually, KFLA channel 8 which is licensed to Los Angeles carries RTV on their main channel. Their transmitter is on Mt. Wilson but as an LPDTV station with only 300 watts ERP they just reach into downtown. Sierra Madre and Pasadena are where KFLA is probably the strongest.

As for Antenna TV, I spoke with Bina Roy who is in charge of affiliate relations and she said that the diginet is strictly for OTA sub-channels, no cable. However, since Tribune owns Antenna TV we should see it on KTLA next year.

http://antennatv.tv/shows/antenna/

 

[ShawnHill1]

I wish in Los Angeles we had these services, although we do have This TV (KTLA 5.2). The nearest RTV outlet is a rimshot station from Barstow, KHIZ; they carry a partial schedule on its main subchannel, while the full schedule is on its DT2. What little classic TV shows that are available in the market are somewhat spread out between certain stations; the Fox duopoly still carries I Love Lucy on a daily basis, and Anaheim's KDOC carries The Andy Griffith Show, All in the Family, M*A*S*H, Cheers (and Frasier), the original Star Trek, the original Hawaii Five-O, the original Twilight Zone, Get Smart, and Hogan's Heroes. They recently moved Perry Mason from its longtime 12pm weekdays (after more than 20 years) to early mornings--5am.

I'm looking forward to Antenna TV when debuts, and I hope that our local cable provider (Time Warner) picks it up. They currently don't carry This TV.

Actually, KFLA channel 8 which is licensed to Los Angeles carries RTV on their main channel. Their transmitter is on Mt. Wilson but as an LPDTV station with only 300 watts ERP they just reach into downtown. Sierra Madre and Pasadena are where KFLA is probably the strongest.

As for Antenna TV, I spoke with Bina Roy who is in charge of affiliate relations and she said that the diginet is strictly for OTA sub-channels, no cable. However, since Tribune owns Antenna TV we should see it on KTLA next year.

http://antennatv.tv/shows/antenna/

Yeah, I forgot KFLA...unfortunately, where I live (Inglewood), I can't pick it up.

 

[azumanga]

As for Antenna TV, I spoke with Bina Roy who is in charge of affiliate relations and she said that the diginet is strictly for OTA sub-channels, no cable.

Kind of funny that they are limiting themselves to aerial only -- most TV stations are enticing cable systems to offer the whole bouquet on digital cable.

 

[landtuna]

In Phoenix the primary (network) TV stations offer only weather/traffic loops on their one sub each. The Fox O&O broadcasts its main signal on RF 10 and uses its sub to simulcast its mail signal on UHF (and it's a good thing too because the main signal is frequently crap and the only way to receive the station is through the sub).

Two indie stations offer RetroTV and ThisTV respectively on their one sub each. I haven't been impressed with RTV at all (lousy signal, constant video/audio sync problems and poor choice of programs) and ThisTV is almost as lacking but without the technical issues. I never knew MGM made that many potboilers. For a long time ThisTV had problems listing the correct show times in various media.

The PBS station offers several subs. Of these, PBS World, is outstanding. Kind of like the old Discovery Channel crossed with National Geographic. PBS Create is another sub which would be great if you were into crafts and antiques big time. No technical problems on either of these subs.

The ION station offers a couple of subs and if I still had youngsters Qubo might be a good choice. As it is, ION is so terrible it is never watched in my house. The same goes for MyNetworkTV which is programmed by the local Fox outlet. Hard to believe anything could be worse than Fox but these are.

The remainder of TV offerings in Phoenix are either LPTV infomercials or Spanish language. I did watch one of the Spanish language subs during the World Cup but don't follow their normal programming.

 

[gregg75]

Somebody in New York and Chicago needs to jump in.

Wow, I didn't realize the rest of the US was in such bad sub-channel shape. Atlanta may
be leading the pack. In addition to those mentioned above we have Retro TV on WSB 2.2,
ION and all it's sub channels, GA PBS with 2 additionals (kids + regular PBS), WXIA has 2
subs (weather radar + Universal Sports) and one religious station has about 5 subs. We also
have about 4 other LOW POWERS mostly selling stuff, and an LP Spanish station and LP Korean
station.

I've noticed that many of the LOW POWERS seem to be slowly increasing power and getting
stronger signals. I'd think the most a LP could get would be about a 25 mile circle. What is the
max area a LP could get? At what point would a LP turn into a regular TV station (if possible) or are
they stuck forever at LP?

 

[RyanHoward]

Here are the digital subchannels in my area:

Philadelphia:
3-KYW-None
6-WPVI-Live Well HD on 6.2, AccuWeather on 6.3
10-WCAU-NBC Plus(Weather) on 10.2, Universal Sports on 10.3
12-WHYY-Y Arts(Cultural) on 12.2, Y Info(News) on 12.3
17-WPHL-This TV on 17.2
29-WTXF-None
35-WYBE-Global MiND on 35.2, MHz Worldview on 35.3, new thing on 35.4
48-WGTW-Church Channel on 48.2, JCTV(Videos) on 48.3, TBN Enlace(Spanish) on 48.4,
Smile of a Child(Kids TBN) on 48.5
57-WPSG-None
61-WPPX-Qubo(Kids) on 61.2, Ion Life on 61.3
65-WUVP-Telefutura(WFPA) on 65.2

Outlying areas:
52-WNJT-NJN2 on 52.2, Audiovision(Audio Only) on 52.3
23-WNJS-23.1 and 23.2, same as WNJT
39-WLVT-V-me(Spanish) on 39.2, PBS Create on 39.3
51-WTVE-None
60-WBPH-new thing on 60.2
69-WFMZ-AccuWeather on 69.2, Retro TV on 69.3

 

[dhett]

TUFF TV (I think this is something NEW) Similar to Retro TV and associated with them. Cisco Kid,
Daniel Boone, I Spy, Rifleman, movies and sports. Anybody else seen them?

Tuff TV is also available in Las Vegas on KHMP-LD 18, on the aforementioned WANN Atlanta, and on 10 other stations nationwide: KFLA Los Angeles; KUSE Seattle; WHKY Hickory NC (Charlotte); WRTN Alexandria TN (Nashville); WDEF Chattanooga; WOBZ East Bernstadt KY (Lexington); KGPT Wichita; WNMN Saranac Lake NY (Burlington VT/Plattsburgh NY); KKYK Camden AR (Monroe LA/El Dorado AR); and K41DE Cortez CO.

Las Vegas does pretty well:

KSNV 3 (NBC) - Untamed Sports, Universal Sports
KVVU 5 (Fox) - Weather
KLAS 8 (CBS) - LATV
KLVX 10 (PBS) - Create, V-Me
KTNV 13 (ABC) - Mexicanal, The Cool TV
KINC 15 (Uni) - Telefutura (//KELV-LP 27)
KEEN 17 (TLN) - none
KHMP 18 (RTV) - America One, Infomercials, Tuff TV
KHDF 19 (AzA) - none
KVMY 21 (MNT) - Estrella TV
KTUD 25 (Local) - none
KEGS 30 (Blank screen) - Almavision (on 30.2)
KMCC 32 (VasalloVision) - none
KVCW 33 (CW) - ThisTV
KBLR 39 (Tmd) - none
K41IO (TBN Enlace) - none
KGNG 47 (HSN) - A Viva, ABN, RTV, Movies+, AMG/My Family
KLSV 50 (Yazo) - JTV, Infomercials

Phoenix - not so much:

KTVK 3 (Ind) - ThisTV
KPHO 5 (CBS) - Weather
KAZT 7 (Ind) - RTV
KPHO 8 (PBS) - Create, World, simulcast of KJZZ-FM
KSAZ 10 (Fox) - none
KPNX 12 (NBC) - Weather
KNXV 15 (ABC) - Traffic/Weather
KPAZ 21 (TBN) - The Church Channel, JCTV, TBN Enlace, Smile of a Child (typical TBN 5)
KTVW 33 (Uni) - Telefutura
K38IZ 38 (Ind) - all locally programmed and branded: 1-IZ Peliculas (old Mexican movies); 2-IZ Classics (old American shows); 3-IZ Videos (old music videos) and 4-IZ Hope (Christian music videos) - woefully underfunded but a gold star for trying
KTAZ 39 (Tmd) - Inmigrante TV
KEJR 40 (Tr3s) - Infomercials (Tr3s used to be MTV Tr3s)
KPDF 41 (AzA) - slides advertising channels for lease
KVPA 42 (Estrella TV) - none
KPHE 44 (Telemax/Mulitimedios) - 3ABN Latino, 3ABN/The Hope Channel, My Family TV
KUTP 45 (MNT) - simulcast of KSAZ (ID'ed as ch 10.2)
KDPH 48 (Daystar) - none
KFPH 50 (Video Zona TV) - Infomericals (recently dropped PromiseLand TV Network)
KPPX 51 (Ion) - qubo, IonLife (typical ION 3)
KASW 61 (CW) - none

Tucson fares no better:
KVOA 4 (NBC) - none
KUAT 6 (PBS) - V-Me, Create
KGUN 9 (ABC) - Mexicanal, The Cool TV
KMSB 11 (Fox) - none
KOLD 13 (CBS) - Weather, slide notifying viewers that The Tube has shut down (been there for 3 years now!)
KTTU 18 (MNT) - Estrella TV
KUAS 27 (PBS) - KUAT Kids, World
KHRR 40 (Tmd) - none
KUVE 46 (Uni) - Telefutura
KWBA 58 (CW) - LATV

 

[w9wi]

I've noticed that many of the LOW POWERS seem to be slowly increasing power and getting
stronger signals. I'd think the most a LP could get would be about a 25 mile circle. What is the
max area a LP could get? At what point would a LP turn into a regular TV station (if possible) or are
they stuck forever at LP?

The difference between "Low-Power TV" and "regular" TV is not just the power. They are different types of license, regulated by different Parts of the FCC regulations. (Part 73 for full-power stations, Part 74 for LPTV) MANY of the regulations are different, not just the technical ones. For one thing, there are no multiple-ownership regulations for LPTVs; the same company could own more than a dozen LPTV licenses in the same city. The limit for full-power licenses is two...

The maximum permissible power for a digital LPTV station is 15kw UHF, 300 watts VHF. The *minimum* permissible power for a digital "regular" station -- well, there is no minimum. (there used to be a minimum of 100 watts in the analog rules) There was a one-watt "full-power" DTV station in upstate NY for awhile. (the station is now authorized at 110kw)

There is no upgrade path from LPTV to "regular" TV - you can't convert your Part 74 LPTV license to a Part 73 "regular" TV license.

Something did happen in Fort Wayne, Indiana 20 years ago that would have *looked like* a LP=>FP upgrade. In the table of channel allotments, channel 39 had been allotted for a full-power non-commercial station in Fort Wayne. But nobody ever applied to *use* that channel.

There was no PBS station in Fort Wayne. A local organization decided to apply for a license for a LPTV station to relay the PBS station from some other market. (South Bend?) They decided to ask for channel 39 for their LPTV station. The FCC granted their application, and the channel 39 LPTV station went on the air.

Some years later, the organization decided to upgrade. They filed an application for a new *full-power* non-commercial station. Also on channel 39. Again, the FCC granted their application.

And they had a completely new license for a full-power station. The LPTV license was a completely separate license. It was still valid after the full-power station went on the air. (just that they couldn't use it because it obviously would have caused ruinous interference to the full-power station! But they could have had the LPTV license modified to specify a different channel, and they could have continued to operate the LP station. They chose not to -- they didn't need two stations -- they simply surrendered the LPTV license for cancellation.)

**I think** similar things have happened elsewhere, but not very often.

 

[gregg75]

Thanks for that info.

So, when Antenna TV starts next year, they should already be the #2 or #3 sub-channel (probably behind Retro TV). Not bad for a start up. Tribune must see that this area is really underserved, and has room for growth and profit.

I believe Tribune will pull out all the stops in an effort to reach the top, probably with a larger cash infusion than Retro TV was started with. Competition should be beneficial for viewers.

 

[Carmine5]

As for Antenna TV, I spoke with Bina Roy who is in charge of affiliate relations and she said that the diginet is strictly for OTA sub-channels, no cable.

Kind of funny that they are limiting themselves to aerial only -- most TV stations are enticing cable systems to offer the whole bouquet on digital cable.

I got the impression from Ms. Roy that it is a contract issue with the distributors and not a Tribune decision.

 

[Carmine5]

I've noticed that many of the LOW POWERS seem to be slowly increasing power and getting
stronger signals. I'd think the most a LP could get would be about a 25 mile circle. What is the
max area a LP could get? At what point would a LP turn into a regular TV station (if possible) or are
they stuck forever at LP?

The difference between "Low-Power TV" and "regular" TV is not just the power. They are different types of license, regulated by different Parts of the FCC regulations. (Part 73 for full-power stations, Part 74 for LPTV) MANY of the regulations are different, not just the technical ones. For one thing, there are no multiple-ownership regulations for LPTVs; the same company could own more than a dozen LPTV licenses in the same city. The limit for full-power licenses is two...

The maximum permissible power for a digital LPTV station is 15kw UHF, 300 watts VHF. The *minimum* permissible power for a digital "regular" station -- well, there is no minimum. (there used to be a minimum of 100 watts in the analog rules) There was a one-watt "full-power" DTV station in upstate NY for awhile. (the station is now authorized at 110kw)

There is no upgrade path from LPTV to "regular" TV - you can't convert your Part 74 LPTV license to a Part 73 "regular" TV license.

The other issue with LPTV is that the stations must accept interference and displacement from full power stations, sort of like LPFM. There is no cable must-carry requirement of LPTV except under very narrow circumstances.

In 2000, the FCC did open a window for LPTV stations to apply for Class A status. As CAs they would enjoy protections similar to full power stations. But to qualify, LPTV stations had to conform to the same FCC programming, EEOC and public file requirements as the full powers. There is some talk among the LPTV community that the Commission may open another Class A window, possibly after the conversion of LPTV to digital. We'll have to patiently wait and see.

 

[Hal Erickson]

Milwaukee Main Stations and Subchannels

WTMJ 4 (NBC)-2, one weather, one music
WITI 6 (FOX)-1, RetroTV
WMVS 10 (PBS)-3 (1 is all-weather;1 is PBS World;1 is all-Spanish V-ME)
WISN 12 (ABC)-none
WVTV 18 (CW)-none
WCGV 24 (MyN)-none
WVCY 30 (Religious)-none
WMVT 36 (PBS)-5 (2 are all-music, 1 is traffic, 1 a simulcast of WMVS-10, 1 is PBS-Create)
WBME 49 (Ind)-1 (Telemundo, which is also on 38 analog and 63.1 digital)
WPXE 55 (ION)-2 (1 is qubo, 1 is ION Life)
WDJT 58 (CBS)-3 (1 is LP indie WMLW, formerly on Ch 41; 1 is THIS-TV; 1 is Real Estate)

We're also supposed to get a TBN affiliate, WWRS, on Channel 52.1, but this is out of reach in most of Milwaukee).

 

[Rollo-Smokes]

Here's the New York City lineup of subchannels (full-power stations only):

WCBS-TV: none (no CBS O&O carries subchannels)
WNBC-TV: "New York Nonstop" (4.2), Universal Sports (4.4)
WNYW: WWOR-TV simulcast in SD (5.2)
WABC-TV: LiveWell Network (7.2), Accu-Weather (7.3) (all ABC O&Os have the same lineup)
WWOR-TV: WNYW simulcast in SD (9.2)
WPIX: This TV (11.2), Estrella TV (11.3)
WNET: Kids Thirteen (formerly PBS Kids, 13.2), V-Me (13.3)
WLIW: Create (21.2), PBS World (21.3)
WNYE-TV: "City Drive Live," live traffic (or survellance) cameras at major NYC intersections (25.2)
WPXN-TV: Qubo (31.2), ION Life (31.3) (all ION O&O stations have the same lineup)
WXTV: WFUT-TV simulcast in SD (41.2)
WNJU-TV: none
WRNN-TV: Mega TV (48.2), Arirang (48.3)
WNJN/WNJB: "NJN 2" (50.2/58.2), "NJN-AV" (audio only, .3)
WTBY: Church Channel (54.2), JCTV (54.3), TBN Enlace USA (54.4), Smile of a Child (54.5) (all TBN stations have the same lineup)
WLNY-TV: none
WFME-TV: audio simulcast of WFME-FM (66.2), audio simulcast of KEAR San Francisco (66.3), foreign-language audio simulcast (66.4), Radio Taiwan audio (66.5), NOAA Weather Radio (66.6)
WFTY-TV/WFUT-TV: WXTV simulcast in SD (67.2/68.2)

 

[gregg75]

No Retro TV in NYC? Wow.

From what I've seen on here, it looks like Atlanta has more to offer in subs than anybody. Thanks in part to WANN 32, of this original post. They have become the SUPER CHANNEL of subs (with 10, of which 3 are noteworthy) plus they currently have audio for 6 radio stations.

But their REAL coverage area is about half of what they claim it to be.

http://www.wanntv.com/

 

[azumanga]

No Retro TV in NYC? Wow.

There is an RTV station in NYC -- but on an LPTV:

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=173789.0

 

[Gridlock Joe]

I have a breakdown of the Houston area subchannels on my blog: http://houstondtv.wordpress.com/dial/

 

[cwf1701]

Metro Detroit stations:

2: WJBK 2.1 Main Fox Programs
4: WDIV 4.1 Main NBC program
4.2: This TV
7: WXYZ 7.1 Main ABC Program
7.2 RTV
9: CBET- Analog until 2011
20: WMYD 20.1 Main My Network TV
31: WPXD 31.1 Main Ion Program
31.2 qubo
31.3 Ion Life
32 CICO Analog until 2011
38: WADL 38.1 WADL programming
38.2 Universial sports
50: WKBD 50.1 Main CW Programs
54 CBEFT Analog until 2011
56: WTVS 56.1 Main WTVS program/main PBS
56.2 PBS-X
56.3 Create
62 WWJ 62.1 Main CBS Programs