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Too many commercials!

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I can combine two of your false statements in one answer. First, the idea that radio does not work. Second, the one you raise here about only thinking about two brands.

First, I NEVER said "radio does not work". I did question how well it works and how one would measure results.

The ongoing campaign created awareness and established the dealer as wanting the business of Spanish speakers. So as those who were looking for that range of cars got closer to the buying point, the idea of visiting that dealer became top of mind until the time that they actually went car shopping. From that point on, it was up to the dealer to convert the ups to sales.

Being a Spanish speaker yourself have you stopped to think that the main attraction for the Spanish speaking car buyer may have been to consummate the deal in his or her native language was as important as other factors? Obviously the ads publicized the fact that the particular dealer operated in Spanish so that part of the ad worked. And given the number of native Spanish speakers in El A I would think the market was also good-sized. I would have almost expected that outcome.

As to your other point - that advertising works best when the potential customer is already considering a purchase - I agree, although it can work at other times as well. Three years ago I owned a Hyundai Santa Fe and I was perfectly happy with it and not looking to replace it - until I saw a story in Car & Driver about the Genesis. Went to a dealer and took a test drive and read some more feature articles (not commercials) on the vehicle and decided I wanted one. It was a very limited production car in those days so not many dealers had one. Also, the numerous Hyundai car ads most often did not include the Genesis (or Equus) because they were so scarce. So advertising played no part in convincing me to buy, timing me to buy or locating the place to buy. I will admit that the Genny purchase was not a commodity as would a Chevy be so it is different in that respect. This isn't meant to attack your story but rather to say other factors are frequently involved.

Most radio advertising is local. In most cases, it's the cash register that is the real "ratings" for a buy.

And I have also said that many times. You have to measure the business generated by specific ad campaigns to most accurately measure the effect of advertising - no matter what the venue.
 
This whole thread is typical of the world we live in today. "I know what I know, and I know it because I know it, and as a result, your business is wrong and needs to change to suit me, because I want to enjoy my media for free. And if you don't change to suit me, I'll just go someplace else."

The only suggestion I have ever made in regard to radio advertising is that results have to be measured by actual sales and not as a result of fuzzy math like subconscious marketing.
 
This whole thread is typical of the world we live in today. "I know what I know, and I know it because I know it, and as a result, your business is wrong and needs to change to suit me, because I want to enjoy my media for free. And if you don't change to suit me, I'll just go someplace else."

The interesting thing about that, A, is that by his own admission he no longer listens to the radio. Nor, by his own admission, has he ever worked in the radio industry, except in the military (which doesn't "count" as credentials for purposes of this discussion).

So a non-listener, non-industry person is essentially wasting his time posting his contextually worthless opinions about a subject we already know has been researched to death, apparently somehow thinking his voice in the wilderness is going to change a medium he already abandoned.

Einstein was right.
 
The interesting thing about that, A, is that by his own admission he no longer listens to the radio.

You don't understand what you read in plain language, do you? Go back and re-read some of my postings. The "non-listening" is directly related to local Oldie stations who morphed into the 90's (and sometimes beyond) or treats their listeners with blizzards of endless commercials.

As I have stated several times recently I do listen to radio - mostly the HD translator of KAZG 1440 AM which is loyal to true Oldies - but also to KOOL and KSLX if I am in one of my cars which doesn't have HD. Matter of fact I have had KAZG on all morning. 5 hours and counting.

Now go return your copy of "Trump Wisdom: The Art of Telepathic Knowledge" 'cause it don't work.
 
The only suggestion I have ever made in regard to radio advertising is that results have to be measured by actual sales and not as a result of fuzzy math like subconscious marketing.

The people who actually spend the money don't seem to share your misgivings, so why should I pay attention to your suggestion?
 
Please be so good as to point out exactly where I said either of those things.

OK, from earlier in this thread:

They changed their product, increased their prices and blistered me with commercials. I decided to go elsewhere. Now many other people are doing it too. So don't use the old "content providers need to get paid for their work" argument with me. They had it once and blew it. They are a collective bunch of idiots.

But your tone throughout this entire discussion has been that you know better than the experts and the research material. Of course you do. But you're NOT an advertiser.
 


You don't understand what you read in plain language, do you?

Considering your twists and turns, I needed a roadmap to follow you. Unfortunately, they don't give those out at gas stations anymore. I suppose you want to decry that as well now that I've mentioned it ...

I'll apologize (somewhat) for not being able to keep track of what you actually mean to say. But I will also note that you do not rebut the rest of my statement.
 
OK, from earlier in this thread:

But your tone throughout this entire discussion has been that you know better than the experts and the research material. Of course you do. But you're NOT an advertiser.

The quote you used specifically refers to content owners, not station personnel. And, to repeat once more, I posted an opinion. Just as many other people on this forum do. Yet you apparently don't believe I have that right.
 
Nor, by his own admission, has he ever worked in the radio industry, except in the military (which doesn't "count" as credentials for purposes of this discussion).

Excuse me! I was not aware we had to have "credentials" to voice opinions on this forum. My mistake. You "experts" on a dying industry go right ahead and don't mind me.
 
Your "opinion" is in response to posted facts. That means you're disputing facts. That makes it more than a simple opinion.

I wasn't aware there were more than simple opinions but as far as "facts" go, I would always be suspicious when "facts" came from industry sources. You go ahead and believe what you want and I will do the same. It's still a free country - for a few more years anyway.
 
Landtuna, you need to understand what is happening here. You are expressing an opinion, your right to do. They, like myself, are not expressing opinions as much as we are our experience and knowledge of working in the business. You mentioned in an earlier post that you had been in the military. As I have not been in the military, any comments I would make about the military would be opinion but your words would be from experience and knowledge.

It is my opinion, based on your comments that you are insulted and lashing out because we disagree with your opinion. It seems some comments about your opinion seem the same. And there seems to be reason for both sides to feel disregarded by the other.

Might I opt for this: if advertising does not work and is ineffective, if you had a business in need of customers, how do you reach the potential customer without advertising? I can easily admit advertising is a calculated roll of the dice. It is not perfect but if you take advertising away, then what? One can say the same of government, not perfect, sometimes ineffective, etc., but if you take government away, what do you have?

Likewise, if you think radio, TV or you choose the medium, is ineffective, then how do you reach the masses? Would you think ineffective advertising venues would be cluttered with messages or not? Would companies spend consistently (ie: Home Depot) on media that is ineffective?

My point is nothing is perfect, so you refine your options to take your best shot at success in what you do. If you did things right, you have a decent chance at success.

Among my advertising stories, talking about advertising results, I'll share this one. Back when the water filtration devices were being hawked by lots of folks, I signed up a guy that was selling them. I strongly suggested he sell the positives of the device and not all the 'harmful' elements found in water supplies but he insisted on writing the spot. I didn't feel good about his choice but it was his money and his choice.

The second day in to his schedule, something happened to the local water supply. The tap water looked sort of milky and gray in color. The city issued a boil order. It seems there had been some sort of underground cave-in and the tap water was fine but just sort of muddy. That lasted about 36 hours.

My water filtration guy's schedule is running during this time talking about all the bad stuff in our drinking water. I called to suggest he stop running until the crisis ended (and no tap water without boiling is a crisis to the average Joe). He, instead, felt he'd get tons of customers. He's the boss since he's my client.

By the end of the first day of the tap water problem, my water filtration guy called in a panic. He was in hiding. He had been getting death threats and people had been driving by his house, coming to his door, etc. In some people's minds, this poor water filtration guy had somehow caused the tap water problem so he could financially benefit from it. He said to cancel his schedule ASAP, that it was going to get him killed.

The fact was it was advertising that worked. By the way, by the time the water crisis was over, this guy shut down his water filtration company and it was a few months before I heard from him again. You might say he really got results!

Finally, I mentioned my Dad managed a bookstore at one point. One of the authors that came to the store told my Dad about one of his blunders that was an eyeopener for him. He was working for Mr. Wrigley, the owner of the #1 chewing gum in the country. The author was a relatively new hire and wanting to make an impression with his boss. He had an excellent opportunity. A handful of employees and Mr. Wrigley were on a charter flight back to Los Angeles, so catching his ear for a couple of minutes in an informal setting was a superb opportunity for him. He noted a magazine where there was a full page ad for Juicy Fruit gum. He noticed it was the only chewing gum advertised in the magazine. Since his job was to save the company money, he suggested they drop the $4,000 ad. Mr. Wrigley responded by asking the author what the number one selling gum in America was. The author answered "Juicy Fruit". Mr. Wrigley pointed to the full page ad and said "That's why we are".
 
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So, listeners don't tune out commercials. I get that. Thanks for showing us the study, KM.

But in another thread on the Seattle-Tacoma board, a radio professional states that listeners tune out DJ patter; they put it in the same classification as commercials and tune it out; and music stations have altered their presentation because of it.

Why the difference? Are there any studies about that one? Why would listeners stay tuned through commercials, but tune out a DJ?

PS Mr. Turner, thanks for your insightful posts. Very interesting.
 
Interesting observation about DJ patter being tuned out. I would wonder how much of that is opinion versus thoroughly researched. Might it be a PD's opinion?

If that is the case, could it be because the DJ has little to say or that frequently the last thing you hear before a commercial break is the DJ? Do listeners sort of 'zone out' when the music is not playing? Should most formats adopt the Jack-style presentation?

Ironically, I found a pair of small stations, an AM/FM combo, in a small town. The AM is classic country and the FM somewhat multi-generational pop/contemporary, maybe almost Hot AC. Both stations tout 'no clutter'. They proudly proclaim no news, no weather (abrupt changes in weather are really rare here), no DJs, just music. Both stations are essentially computer driven around the clock. It seems it has been a very positive thing for them, bucking the thinking of the small town radio mentality that you have to be very information oriented when you are the only stations in town. They sell the advertiser on the no clutter concept. And station liners are very minimal, limited to after a commercial airs and about every 30 minutes in hours without spots which is more frequent at night and on weekends. They claim to have researched this and are simply doing what the community wants. There is a well read local paper, so I suppose that is the town's news source. They do run a local PSA about hourly during the day, mostly limited to a message from local officials and I have heard promos for community events where the station was involved but that is not ongoing but special events (ie: Halloween, Christmas Tree Lighting, County Fair, etc.). By the way, this is a small town, so when such a station is run right by charging a decent spot rate, you can get by on maybe 2 to 4 spots an hour. I say 'right' as an opinion since I have seen such small market stations charging maybe $3 a spot and having maybe 10 to 12 an hour and I have seen stations charge about $10 and get 3 or 4 spots an hour. In my mind I can devote more time and effort on that $10 spot client in making those dollars really work for them but at $3 I have to stay too busy to do much more than just take the order and churn out some copy with little thought.
 
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I would always be suspicious when "facts" came from industry sources.

That's the problem here. You prefer to believe your own opinions than actual documented facts. You post in a public place, so expect that I'm gonna call you on it.

Further: This is an industry board. It is owned by Streamline, which publishes the well-respected industry publication RadioINK. They have gone to great lengths to attract industry people to participate here.

You are outside the industry. While listener opinions are important and therefore not only tolerated here but encouraged, you have consistently pushed the envelope of what is opinion and what is insulting to the profession. I put it to you that it doesn't matter one second whether or not you believe the facts. What matters is that we who live and die by those facts understand how they were gathered and on that basis decide whether they are valid.

In other words: You do not get to decide whether those facts are suspect. And as long as you persist in using that as a defense of your opinions, we will continue to reply.

If you would like this to stop, then stop your circular arguments.
 
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