Tremendous Salt Water Propagation for AM

[drt]

1060 out of New Orleans was barely there, but it was strong enough to i.d.; whereas WWL had a nice strong signal.

It would be good for GARFL if he did receive anything from Texas, but I wouldn't hold my breath; if he does that would be great.

I have dx'd before from NAS Pensacola and there the dx'ing was a lot better; I could pick up nearly all the Tampa/St. Pete and Sarasota stations as well as stations from Mobile to New Orleans. Even there I don't recall picking up any Texas stations.

drt

 

[gar hi]

I forget who it was but someone here recently mentioned getting three of our Tampa/St. Pete stations in east Texas during the day. Whatever I can get even if there's no oficial ID, I will try to get it on video, put it on You Tube, and post it here asap. I'm going to this place called Honeymoon Island State Park. It's an isolated tiny island about a mile or so out in the Gulf.

 

[vibe]

I tried DX ing further up the coast near Yankeetown FL on the water. Lots of skeeters even at midday (it was oct). I wanted to get the 1600 from Golden Meadow and 560 from Beaumont but no go. The 1060 from New orleans was better than 90 mi to the S near St. Pete and Clearwater. The 870 from N.O. was city grade.
The X banders on 1620-1640 Pensac. and Biloxi were mid srength. The band was nearly full. Unfortunately I stayed only 30 min. Had to DX with the car running and on AC. Just a northern $%^#$ I guess.

 

[radioman148]

>>1060 out of New Orleans was barely there, but it was strong enough to i.d.; whereas WWL had a nice strong signal.>>

The waterpath really helped 1060. WWL I'm not surprised with their gangbuster signal.

 

[gar hi]

Well, I'm getting ready to go. Whatever success I have will determine whether I make that trip across the state to the east coast to try for New York.

 

[trusty]

...I'm going to this place called Honeymoon Island State Park. It's an isolated tiny island about a mile or so out in the Gulf.

You might also want to try the small island off of Tarpon. No causeway toll and less chance of splatter from the locals. (I'd make the trip just for the Greek food. )

 

[gar hi]

Thanks for telling me. I've been to the town of Tarpon Springs but never thought of going beyond in the direction of the Gulf.

 

[nd2023]

I wonder if anyone else has gotten WCBS 880 or any other NYC AM during the day on the Florida coast. I had a really good portable radio and stuck the antenna into the water. Perhaps something to try next time some of you go down there for Winter Music Conference.

 

[drt]

I wonder if anyone else has gotten WCBS 880 or any other NYC AM during the day on the Florida coast. I had a really good portable radio and stuck the antenna into the water. Perhaps something to try next time some of you go down there for Winter Music Conference.

I was at NAS Mayport, right on the Atlantic (about 17 miles east of Jacksonville) for about 2 years and I would routinely get the Brunswick, Savannah and Charleston,SC and Daytona Beach stations day and night, but never did receive the NYC clears during the day, but I didn't have the best radio, but my car radio was good and never received the NYC stations during the day.

Even the stations out of Daytona
Beach, Brunswick, Savannah and Charleston would disappear as I crossed the intracoastal waterway bridge leaving Mayport to go to Jacksonville.

I've more recently crossed the state to Stuart (about 34 miles north of Palm Beach) and on the beach there (Hutchinson Island) I was not able to pick up any of the NYC clear channels or anything north of
Charleston for that matter. At the time (just before the 880 in Miami came on the air); all I got on 880 was Cuba, the same for 770; and nothing on 660 except for a very weak signal on the 660 out of Orlando. 710 was a strong WAQI (50,000 watts) out of Miami.

Between the Cuban stations and the local ones on the clear channel frequencies; dx'ing even on the Atlantic isn't all that great in Florida. From what I hear coastal South Carolina and North Carolina is a good place to dx on the Atlantic; people say that on the coast in the Carolinas it common to pick up the NYC clear channels as well as receiving Jacksonville and points south.

I was able to get both 810 and 1540 out of the Bahamas with a good strong signal that fades (especially the 1540) when going inland more than 3 or 4 miles.

WTMA 1250 out of Charleston was the most distant station received at Hutchinson Island (Stuart,FL).

drt
latitude 27.75 north

 

[dlf]

I've only pulled in 620 from St. Petersburg once in SE Texas and the last time I was in that area, I forgot to try the signal. It was a listenable signal around 10 AM in May of 1995. As many have stated the best Texas options are bottled up by Florida signals (560 out of Miami, 740 and 1030 out of Orlando, 790 out of Leesburg and 850 out of either Gainesville or West Palm Beach).

I was thinking about additional Texas signals and what about KTSA out of San Antonio. It's 130 miles inland, but it puts a strong signal into Corpus Christi and it has a low dial position. I don't know the answer, but would 130 miles of land negate any possible salt water advantage? The 550 dial position does have closer signals in Jacksonville and Alabama as well.

dlf

 

[drt]

I've only pulled in 620 from St. Petersburg once in SE Texas and the last time I was in that area, I forgot to try the signal. It was a listenable signal around 10 AM in May of 1995. As many have stated the best Texas options are bottled up by Florida signals (560 out of Miami, 740 and 1030 out of Orlando, 790 out of Leesburg and 850 out of either Gainesville or West Palm Beach).

I was thinking about additional Texas signals and what about KTSA out of San Antonio. It's 130 miles inland, but it puts a strong signal into Corpus Christi and it has a low dial position. I don't know the answer, but would 130 miles of land negate any possible salt water advantage? The 550 dial position does have closer signals in Jacksonville and Alabama as well.

dlf

Hate to sound like a broken record....... but 550 in this area is occupied by Radio Havana, a fairly strong signal.

I'm am aware of the 550 in Jacksonville/Orange Park, but have never received it here on the Suncoast; I really doubt that what would be left of the 550 out of San Antonio signal would overpower the 550 from Cuba. There are strong Cuban signals in this area on 530, 550, 570 (often heard under the local 570 in southern parts of the Tampa Bay area, 590 (mostly classical like 530), 640 and 670, 710 (trying to jam WAQI 710 out of Miami) and 910 (a recent Cuban addition), 950 (Radio Reloj) and 990..... all strong during the day. Weaker but there during the day from Cuba are 770 and 880;so all in all dx'ing from this part of the west coast of Florida just isn't as good as you would expect; unless receiving the Cuban stations would count as a great catch.

drt

 

[gar hi]

I've only pulled in 620 from St. Petersburg once in SE Texas and the last time I was in that area, I forgot to try the signal. It was a listenable signal around 10 AM in May of 1995. As many have stated the best Texas options are bottled up by Florida signals (560 out of Miami, 740 and 1030 out of Orlando, 790 out of Leesburg and 850 out of either Gainesville or West Palm Beach).

Now I know what I could have been hearing at the Gulf yeaterday. Like I said, WQAM was the only ID I got other than WWL which, BTW, I started to get real good about half way through Pinellas County on my way to the beach where it had less interference from the local 860 than it did at the Gulf. I was surprised to hear WQAM because even though the station here on 570 has spill over in Tampa, I've never heard a trace of WQAM here.

Being as good as New Orleans is received along the Gulf coast, I'm really surprised Houston stations supposedly can't be received.

I've more recently crossed the state to Stuart (about 34 miles north of Palm Beach) and on the beach there (Hutchinson Island) I was not able to pick up any of the NYC clear channels or anything north of
Charleston for that matter. At the time (just before the 880 in Miami came on the air); all I got on 880 was Cuba, the same for 770; and nothing on 660 except for a very weak signal on the 660 out of Orlando. 710 was a strong WAQI (50,000 watts) out of Miami.

I'm starting to wonder if it would really be worth even going to the east coast of Florida to try for the NY stations during the daytime now.

 

[dx1ng]

In theory anyway, WCBS and WFAN should be heard right along the east coast of Florida in the daytime. Considering the many reports we now have of very good reception on the North Carolina outer banks, it would seem there would still be some signal left around the east coast of Florida. Right at the Gulf on the west coast, WWL has an impressive daytime signal, FAR stronger than what I hear inland 15 miles.

When I first saw posts speculating about WCBS ground wave reception at Miami, I did some calculations based on the FCC engineering charts, and found that there should actually be a very weak WCBS signal of a few microvolts at Miami. WCBS is helped by it's tall tower, which gives it an effective power of around 100 kw compared to stations with normal (1/4 wave) towers. Even so, I don't think any portable would be able to pick the signal up... it would take a good comunications receiver with a really good antenna. Any farther north along the coast than West Palm Beach, and the WCBS signal would have to cross a lot of land, and simply couldn't make it. Even going just as far north as Fort Pierce, and you have about 150 miles of Virginia and North Carolina land for the WCBS signal to cross... that would really kill the signal. It would be even worse farther north on the Florida coast. And we haven't even considered interference... if WZAB is on the air on 880 from the Miami area, there's no chance of hearing WCBS. And Cuba too... remember Cuban stations are a LOT closer, and they have at least a partial water path. And I don't know what else might propagate that way from the Caribbean.

It's about 1100 miles from New York City to Miami.... that's a BIG difference from the 450 miles or so separating New Orleans and Tampa (or the 350 to 400 miles between New York City and the Outer Banks).

Simply said, even though most sky wave occurs between 2 hours before sunset and 2 hours after sunrise, if WCBS is heard in Florida it is via skywave.

 

[radioman148]

>>I'm starting to wonder if it would really be worth even going to the east coast of Florida to try for the NY stations during the daytime now.>>

Probably not after reading dx1ing's post.

 

[gar hi]

When I first saw posts speculating about WCBS ground wave reception at Miami, I did some calculations based on the FCC engineering charts, and found that there should actually be a very weak WCBS signal of a few microvolts at Miami. WCBS is helped by it's tall tower, which gives it an effective power of around 100 kw compared to stations with normal (1/4 wave) towers. Even so, I don't think any portable would be able to pick the signal up... it would take a good comunications receiver with a really good antenna. Any farther north along the coast than West Palm Beach, and the WCBS signal would have to cross a lot of land, and simply couldn't make it. Even going just as far north as Fort Pierce, and you have about 150 miles of Virginia and North Carolina land for the WCBS signal to cross... that would really kill the signal. It would be even worse farther north on the Florida coast. And we haven't even considered interference... if WZAB is on the air on 880 from the Miami area, there's no chance of hearing WCBS. And Cuba too... remember Cuban stations are a LOT closer, and they have at least a partial water path. And I don't know what else might propagate that way from the Caribbean.

It's about 1100 miles from New York City to Miami.... that's a BIG difference from the 450 miles or so separating New Orleans and Tampa (or the 350 to 400 miles between New York City and the Outer Banks).

Simply said, even though most sky wave occurs between 2 hours before sunset and 2 hours after sunrise, if WCBS is heard in Florida it is via skywave.

It makes sense because I even asked the question recently wondering how it's possible for a station from New York in which can't be heard just inland in North Carolina to be heard somewhere on the coast more south even though both locations are in the exact same direct path from the source of the New York station. Someone attempted to explain that the signal regains strength once back out on the salt water but, to me, that seemed to defy the laws of physics. You don't get something from nothing. That's why I see your point, dxing.

A couple of posters here have said they've heard WCBS in the daytime, one right on the water at Miami Beach and the other on the intercoastal in Daytona Beach. Like you say, maybe it was either a skywave involved and/or an exceptional receiver?

 

[radioman148]

When I first saw posts speculating about WCBS ground wave reception at Miami, I did some calculations based on the FCC engineering charts, and found that there should actually be a very weak WCBS signal of a few microvolts at Miami. WCBS is helped by it's tall tower, which gives it an effective power of around 100 kw compared to stations with normal (1/4 wave) towers. Even so, I don't think any portable would be able to pick the signal up... it would take a good comunications receiver with a really good antenna. Any farther north along the coast than West Palm Beach, and the WCBS signal would have to cross a lot of land, and simply couldn't make it. Even going just as far north as Fort Pierce, and you have about 150 miles of Virginia and North Carolina land for the WCBS signal to cross... that would really kill the signal. It would be even worse farther north on the Florida coast. And we haven't even considered interference... if WZAB is on the air on 880 from the Miami area, there's no chance of hearing WCBS. And Cuba too... remember Cuban stations are a LOT closer, and they have at least a partial water path. And I don't know what else might propagate that way from the Caribbean.

It's about 1100 miles from New York City to Miami.... that's a BIG difference from the 450 miles or so separating New Orleans and Tampa (or the 350 to 400 miles between New York City and the Outer Banks).

Simply said, even though most sky wave occurs between 2 hours before sunset and 2 hours after sunrise, if WCBS is heard in Florida it is via skywave.

It makes sense because I even asked the question recently wondering how it's possible for a station from New York in which can't be heard just inland in North Carolina to be heard somewhere on the coast more south even though both locations are in the exact same direct path from the source of the New York station. Someone attempted to explain that the signal regains strength once back out on the salt water but, to me, that seemed to defy the laws of physics. You don't get something from nothing. That's why I see your point, dxing.

A couple of posters here have said they've heard WCBS in the daytime, one right on the water at Miami Beach and the other on the intercoastal in Daytona Beach. Like you say, maybe it was either a skywave involved and/or an exceptional receiver?

I've asked the poster who said he received WCBS while in the water in Miami Beach twice what time of day & what season it was when he received it. He hasn't answered yet, but I'll bet it was during the fall or winter and late enough in the afternoon that there was some skywave involved.

 

[drt]

I have to agree with Radioman148; I would not be surprised if the poster, who said he received WCBS during the day on Miami Beach, was in fact receiving skywave.

I have received WCBS as early (not often though) as 3:50 pm at the very end of November and early December; usually though the skywave will start around 5pm at that time of year..... for some reason the 880 out of Havana fades out around 45 minutes before local sunset here and doesn't resume (the Cuban 880) until about an hour after sunet. (I'm guessing this might be the cancellation of the ground and skywave).

At this time of year it's very different and I seldom receive WCBS as the dominant station; although they can be heard under the 880 from Cuba about half the time.

drt

 

[gar hi]

Someone also recently made a claim of getting WCBS during the mid day on the shore of Puerto Rico with a special antenna in the early 60s. I don't recall if the time of year was mentioned or not.

 

[schmave]

Someone also recently made a claim of getting WCBS during the mid day on the shore of Puerto Rico with a special antenna in the early 60s. I don't recall if the time of year was mentioned or not.

This seems more believable to me. Not having an atlas in front of me, to the best of my memory there is no land between New York and Puerto Rico.
Gar, sorry you didn't hear anything from Texas. I plan to go down to Galveston either tomorrow or Thursday to DX and hope to get something. I just have to figure out the best place to go.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Someone also recently made a claim of getting WCBS during the mid day on the shore of Puerto Rico with a special antenna in the early 60s. I don't recall if the time of year was mentioned or not.

This seems more believable to me. Not having an atlas in front of me, to the best of my memory there is no land between New York and Puerto Rico.
Gar, sorry you didn't hear anything from Texas. I plan to go down to Galveston either tomorrow or Thursday to DX and hope to get something. I just have to figure out the best place to go.

Completely believable. I had WCBS absolutely reliably any time of the day or time of year in Daytona Beach Shores, FL, on the intercoastal waterway, one block from the beach. Receiver was a stock GE Superadio 2 - no added antenna.