True Oldies for Jax

[John FL]

As I had suspected would happen, the oldies format is continuing to take root in many markets across the country. Sadly, Jax is still devoid of the format. To our south, Central Florida now has multiple oldies stations. South Florida and Southeast Georgia are covered and now of course the big news is Top 10 Atlanta joins the growing trend.

I've spent the last week or so listening to Scott Shannon's True Oldies channel and man I really like what I've been hearing. A great mix of music, upbeat and has a few songs an hour I can say wow I haven't heard that one in awhile. It's not perfect but I think overall it works because it doesn't pretend to be something it isn't. And it's just so good to hear songs no one else is playing. Certainly that can help a station stand out in a sea of sameness. Yes, I prefer local talent and programming but given the state of things, I can understand why True Oldies is taking off from a financial standpoint.

Perhaps I'm dreaming but wouldn't it be "cool" to at least have Tom Murphy on the air giving the station a local flavor? There are many AMers that are going with the format but for Jax, FM would have the greatest impact. What do you think? Is it possible this can happen here?

 

[Promo174]

Not a lot of response, John. But, I'll throw in my two-cents.
If Oldies were going to be a format used by any of the owners in Jacksonville, I think it would have happened long before now.

Granted the bigger markets are doing it and having a good run of it.
But, there's no one in Jax who is willing to put forth the dollars.. not to mention the effort to do it.

I agree.. it would be great to hear Tom again. But, unless you and I pool our money and our brain power to get it done, it won't happen.

I think the above is all pretty obvious to everyone.. but, at least it here .. in "font".

Promo174

 

[Froggy]

Not a lot of response, John. But, I'll throw in my two-cents.
If Oldies were going to be a format used by any of the owners in Jacksonville, I think it would have happened long before now.

Granted the bigger markets are doing it and having a good run of it.
But, there's no one in Jax who is willing to put forth the dollars.. not to mention the effort to do it.

I agree.. it would be great to hear Tom again. But, unless you and I pool our money and our brain power to get it done, it won't happen.

I think the above is all pretty obvious to everyone.. but, at least it here .. in "font".

Promo174

As a Radio Pro,It wouldn't take much money or effort to put Scott Shannon's True oldies Format on the Air and Buy the Oldies Format on HARD DRIVE from Jones Media to plug in a Live & Local AM and/Possibly Local PM Drive Show using SIMIAN.

John Barrett

 

[austingrace]

Here is my 2 cents. get rid of that eagle crap on 96.9 and put true oldies on there. I think you can get what you hear on the eagle from either rock and the point. you can get your classic rock on rock 105 and your 80s stuff from the point. why not just put oldies back on 96.9? i think that was a dumb move on cox's part back then. That is the only station that would come to mind that should go. and don't even say 100.7... so i hope it happens for you guys. you guys need it. well let me know what happens. i don't go to the jax area much anymore. the only way i keep up with things is if someone happens to mention it here.

 

[JaxRocks]

I missed the Oldies format and loved my time working part time at COOL FM but Eagle 96.9 is making money so they arent going backwards...I cant see an FM in Jax doing the format....92.7 went with Gospel so thats that.....maybe an AM will pick it up......

 

[austingrace]

interesting you should mention am in jax. wonder what station would get it? I really don't know am in jax well. i can say one station that would not defanatly get it is 690. maybe another am station will get it. We have true oldies here in orlando on 810 am. so you guys will have to let me know if true oldies comes to jax.

 

[John FL]

Austin, you are in Orlando and I can understand your not knowing Jax AM. But I live here and besides WOKV and a couple of sports stations, I haven't a clue what else exists on AM. And that's a major problem for AM. A music format such as oldies on the AM band is destined for mediocrity and it doesn't really serve the public. A great book would be what - a low 1 share. No thanks.

A lot of radio listening happens in the car. Most people on average listen to just a few radio stations. I have WOKV FM locked in on my FM1 presets. And I can honestly say it's so much easier for me to tune into them now then before when I had to specifically chose AM. I know my own individual listening to them is up and the ratings continue to reflect that the addition of FM helped them a lot.

I've listened to the 810 Orlando AMer online. On the internet, AM or FM doesn't really matter - especially if it is a stereo broadcast. But when the music ends and they go to traffic and such - it's dull. One reason I mentioned earlier the need to have local talent on in critical AM drive.

Anyway, it's a shame we can't go back to the past and correct mistakes. I'm convinced the format would have evolved into a success story and would have been a station of choice for many who are underserved. As far as Eagle, I'm sure their making money has more to do with the significant slashing of payroll than with signifcant billing increases.

The other day I discovered that the WKQL calls is now assigned to a Renda oldies station in Pennsylvania - in the same town where the ground hog predicts an early Spring or continued Winter. Maybe it's just me, but it's kind of sad that WKQL will not be a part of the Jax radio landscape any time soon and it is now where it is.

Well, every morning I still drink my 3 or so cups of coffee out of my Cool 96.9 mug. Good times and great oldies. Ain't that the truth.

 

[AnotherCat]

TAMA just flipped their Savannah Smooth Jazz station to Gospel. They can't compete with CC for gospel here so I'm wonderin' if they might flip and take True Oldies off the bird. They mismanage everything they touch but if they put a format with a lot of familiar music on word of mouth might bring them some listeners. THe SJ format they are using right now plays about 75% oldies and covers of oldies so why not just go with the real thing?

 

[John FL]

They mismanage everything they touch but if they put a format with a lot of familiar music on word of mouth might bring them some listeners.

If oldies are to return to Jax, let's at least learn from the past and not make the same mistakes. The last Jax go around with oldies was done by those who didn't understand the format potential. And wishful thinking in hoping for the best surely doesn't deliver an audience. It takes talent and hard work.

As much as I would love to have the oldies in Jax, I'll pass if it's run by folks who don't have a good track record. In the wrong hands, even airing True Oldies can get screwed up. Cat, I enjoy reading many of your posts but this one really says a lot about the state of things in radio. Forget the old rule of spending money to make money; is there any room for competence nowadays? I don't fault you. Overall, even coming close to expectations seems to be the norm. And all those great radio folks out there without a gig who would love the opportunity to make a difference. Wacky state of things.

 

[Panamag8or]

Sorry to dredge up such an old topic, but I haven't been around in a while, and I'm catching up.

Anyway, Scott Shannon is available on:
St. Augustine Beach: FM 105.5 WSJF

Dunno if Jax can get it all that well, but he is in the area. Also, I looked at his playlist from today, and that ain't oldies. Half of his list could be at home on a classic rocker. He only played one song from the 50's, and only a couple of pre-Beatles tunes.

 

[John FL]

Hey Panama, I actually forgot I brought this topic up in the first place so thanks for "dredging it up." LOL.

Actually, the signal sucks where I live but when I venture just a mile or two down the road to the Avenues Mall area, it comes in way better. Go figure.

As far as the playlists, the format has evolved so that the majority of stations doing the format are a hybrid classic hits with an emphasis on 70s hits from artists such as Boston, ELO, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John, BTO,Steely Dan to name a few, mix in soul and disco from the 70s, add 25-30% hourly plays of top mid - late 60s artists representing British Invasion, Motown, Soul and good 'ol rock 'n roll, and there you have it. Does this satisfy all oldies fans? No. But it's all about attracting advertsing-friendly demos. And so, if the playlist concentrates on the 70s, those who grew up with the music are 35+ and this is a key demo. Most stations simply can't afford to play the real old stuff. A shame the roots of rock and roll is now shunned but it's business.

There are stations around the country who take more liberties with themed weekend programming. Just like seasoning, they sprinkle in songs you don't always hear and I believe it helps make a positive impression with the listeners.

The other day I caught a PBS show featuring a lot of great artists from the 60s. I was rather saddened to see how so many have not aged well. I also realized that a lot of my favorite "turntable hits" just wouldn't sound good because they haven't aged well either.

I guess you can call this a flip-flop but as far as True Oldies goes, my initial enthusiasm for it has changed. They basically sound like a Sunday morning specialty type program. It may be good to hear on the internet but not necessaily to be a strong contender on the radio. This is why the program is carried on so many weak signal stations including tons of AMers who have one foot in the grave. But I'm still grateful the powers made a choice to give the listener something differerent.

 

[pocket-radio]

John radio is about money, and nobody wants a format that targets the 55+ listeners. Stations in the top ratings, like WEJZ, WQIK derive most of their major revenues 80% from local, regional and national ad agency firms and they target 18-34 + 25-54 and 35-54. Madison Avenue thinks younger is better! Mom and pop advertisers can’t afford to buy effective frequency on the big hitters because the rates are too high. Trust me they try but waste their money!

I agree listeners 55+ have money and are great for local advertisers but the big guns would go out of business living off local mom and pop advertisers. If you’ve noticed WEJZ isn’t the same station it was a year ago. While playing old favorites it’s sounding much younger now playing current softer hits. WQIK is also playing currents too.

Time will tell if true oldies in St Augustine is commercially viable with a weak signal and local market too. They’d be better off just simulating sports on their whole mess of stations. WSOS a St Augustine station changed their signal to better serve Jacksonville because of weak revenues from mostly mom and pop advertisers.

Maybe Oldies and Jazz could serve local communities on HD. Jacksonville currently has 4 county stations and nobody knows about the two new comers. Creativity is missing in Jacksonville and the HD signals are going to waste. You might be inspired to buy an HD radio just to hear oldies again. And HD for station owners is a complete loss and will be for years to come.

WGNE Country
WQIK Country
WQIK/HD Classic Country
WROO/HD Country

 

[John FL]

Good grief, give me a break Pocket-Radio. Your arguement that nobody wants a format that targets 55+ would be true on its' own but that is not the case as it applies to today's greatest hits format. And even as we speak, yet another market adds oldies in New England. Large, medium and small markets are giving the format another whirl. Let's get real here. Your statement would imply that the advertising rules were being cast aside just for old times sake by many markets to carry the format.

There are those who recognize the potential to make a buck and offer a format that does a good job in increasing time spent listening and performs very well in the meter markets. That's the future. Jacksonville radio is managed by those who lack vision and who prefer to give listeners more of the same. I give a lot of credit to CBS Radio for bringing back the format in many markets and for tweaking the format in a lot of other markets. Their brand is now becoming a prototype for others to follow.

If you just look at our neighbor to the south, WOCL now have 4 times the audience they once had when they did Alternative. That should account for something. They certainly don't sound like they are going after 55+.

Eagle covers the same music decades as many of today's oldies stations do. But Eagle's music focus is narrow and oldies offer a heck of a lot more variety in the music. I believe this helps attract coalitions of audience transcending age and gender. It's a double standard in that Eagle can be accepted but today's greatest hits format is met with skeptism. I still maintain a greatest hits format here would be a good move for the owner(s) and certainly a good one for the listener.

I would agree with you if you indicated that if the station doing the format had the wrong imaging, power-rotating the same tired 60s tunes and middle-of-the-road style DJs, then odds are that would deliver a 55+ audience. I also agree that the format would have difficulty with the younger the better mentality, but I do believe 35-54 is a good target audience and the format is making good inroads there. But in the end, those who would consider the format need to believe in it and I don't think we are there (yet).

 

[austingrace]

ok.
a few things here.
I thought wsjf was sold? i thought sevin bridges bought it?
anyway, it would not surprise me that tama flipped a smooth jazz station. Here in orlando we have wloq witch after 31 years still plays smooth jazz. I am not a fan of smooth jazz but i hope they do not flip that one. Anyway, how is this true oldies working in st. augustine? we had true oldies here in orlando but some religious group took over the station. it was pretty good but i guess ratings did not say so.
I miss cool 96.9 i remember going to st. augustine to go to school right after cc flipped cool over to rumba and it was nice to hear it. but then of course they had to bring the eagle to that signal. maybe cox will get a clue and flip it back but i doubt that...
but hell, wocl has some of that market covered. granted you have ot have a good radio but wocl can be heard clear in to jacksonville. i can't remember how far it got but it seemed pretty impressive to me. anyway, i was wondering if there is a way to hear wsjf on the internet? i'm wondering if they will go live and local with it? I doubt it but it was a nice thought.

 

[pocket-radio]

The Hatchet Man with Renda killed oldies. He used to be with Cox and killed their oldies station. He fired Tom Murphy twice in the same market. If Tom Murphy returns to oldies in St. Augustine, Renda will buy that frequency too and Tom Murphy will be fired 3 times by the same man. I’m just having fun with ya, but stranger things have happened.

Stations that play greatest hits 70’s & 80’s like Eagle and Sunny have a better shot of landing big ratings in the 25-54 demographic with higher cume. I guess you could call them oldies without using the label oldies and calling you and your favorite music old

Everything that’s old is new again and oldies may return again.
I think your best opportunity for Oldies to make a come back is on HD. Contact your local Clear Channel station in Jacksonville. So far they’ve done nothing.

Radio in general lacks creativity and Jacksonville is the worst. But as long as the wheels keep make big bucks they won’t be motivated to change.

Oldies in Boston http://www.oldies1033.com just kicked Dale Dorman to the curb.
Dale is like Tom Murphy, but instead a Boston radio fixture and has been on every station in Boston for like 40 years. Tom Murphy was in Boston too at one time. Maybe the ratings aren't so hot or Dale sounds old and can't hold on to the 25-54's. It's about money.. and the money demos for radio are 25-to-54 - 18-34. 35-54 is ok but 25-54 is better, anything stuck around 50 or older is death.
They all want younger demos. It is what it is..

 

[TommyR]

True Oldies is definitely more "classic hits", but that doesn't offend me at all. (I'm 29.) In a perfect world, if either C/Kool station in Jax were allowed to evolve, one might have sounded like this. (IIRC toward the end, 96.9 drew the musical timeline at The Four Seasons' "Who Loves You" from 1975, excepting Kokomo from 1988!)

The one time I've raised an eyebrow while listening to True Oldies was when I heard Eddie Money's "Baby Hold On" (1978). Not that I yelled at the radio like I did at 100.7 tacking on mid-80's, but this too will become normal soon. That said, I certainly would not call WOCL "oldies" either, though it may be ahead of its time. Soon, it may well be "oldies" or as close as we get to it.

Tonight riding to dinner with my mom, we heard 105.5 sales manager Jack O' Brien say that the new station targeted "affluent and mature" listeners. Mom laughed and said, "I'm mature, but that's it!"

 

[John FL]

True Oldies is definitely more "classic hits", but that doesn't offend me at all. (I'm 29.)

Great post Tommy! That little opening sentence of yours quoted above sums up my ongoing case for the format because it has evolved.

As I listen to the format on stations around the country, I would agree that it has more elements of class hits than oldies. If you notice too, many of these stations are listed as classic hits in Arbitron reporting surveys. The word "oldies" I believe has a negative connotation just like liberals of today prefer to call themselves "progressive." It's just marketing but I could care less what it's officially called - I believe it offers a viable alternative to a wide spectrum of listeners.

One small observation. For a few months prior to 96.9 going all Christmas and then flipping to Eagle, the playlist expanded to playing the hits from the late 70s. How I remember this crap even amazes me, but they were power-rotating "You're the One That I Want" from John Travolta/Olivia Neutron Bomb from 1978 to a point of nausea.

"Baby Hold On" gets heavy airplay on virtually every station doing the format. Yes, things have changed and this brings the format up a competitive notch and is designed to help attract younger demos.

Lastly, like you Tommy, I often wonder where Cool/Kool would be today if they were allowed to evolve. We will never know but Cool met it's end because Cox didn't want to spend $$$ on a format they thought was going the way of elevator music. They got caught up in trying to be ahead of what we now can see was an artificial power curve. KOOL - we all know too well the issues they had to pull anything off.

 

[pocket-radio]

As I recall Renda’s 100.7 Oldies station played 60’s/70/s hits, music that came from war years back then. Some of the music was great and some of it was dark too. Trying to sell that station was difficult because it’s core listeners were adults 55 to death with some 35+ not many though, and it leaned towards males. I know I was there.

They could have changed imaging and played more up tempo hits from the 70’s & 80’s Sounding more classic hits, but that would have competed dead on with 96.9 Eagle. They killed oldies because the station was dead last in the ratings and considering the management they must have believed there was little growth potential.

Now we they have Sunny 94.1 playing softer hits from 60’s 70’s and 80’s. It’s oldies with a new name and brighter imaging. Plus true oldies playing true oldies with some 80’s thrown in too just for fun. Should be interesting to see what happens. My guess is because of the signal limitations true oldies won’t last as a stand alone targeting St. Augustine. I mean they’ll give it everything they’ve got for a while. Unless they can improve the signal and revanues. but time will tell. Renda moved the tower for 94.1 and it’s now a solid Jax signal and has potential for growth. Tied to St. Augustine limited the revenue potential. Renda paid 7 million dollars so they expect big things revenue wise.

Sunny 94.1 owned by Renda, is the mote to WEJZ. It’s their safety net to prevent another player from going after the AC market. Just like WROO was to WQIK for Clear Channel. Though that didn’t stop Renda from going country. They believed WQIK & WROO were weak, sleepy & vulnerable. WROO was, WQIK has been tougher bird.

All I know..

 

[TommyR]

I am wondering if Seven Bridges got the 105.5 signal as "added value" in the Tama lease just to get it out of their hair! Whatever the case, they would be both contractually and ethically WRONG if they put sports on it, since WAOC has many of the same programs and teams on its sports lineup. Hence the selection of a satellite-fed music format.

Another thought--just throwing it out there, no offense to anyone--how did the old WSOS survive all those years in St. Augustine, especially being live and local 12 hours a day as they were near the end? For anyone who doubts there's money in the St. Augustine market...either the old owners were huge radio marks and threw tons of money into payroll, or they had a halfway decent business going.

 

[gchasse]

I live in World Golf Village, and I get it very well here. My wife works in Baymeadows, and it can be caught there, although it is beginning to fade.

JohnJax, if you are hoping for a 50s oldies station, that is going to hard to find. Even Kool96.9 was not doing that in the end. I am hoping this one will stick, it plays more 60s than anything else. I like the station a lot, although I am also hoping we can get a local dj at least some of the time. Tom Murphy is at WOKV right now, I am hoping somehow they can get him back to what he does best.