TV Markets that should be eliminated...

[rch66]

But whereas Manchester, NH (being in the Boston DMA) has a secondary market ABC affiliate, I can't see why Newark, NJ or Bridgeport, CT cannot get their own as well. I could see why the NYC station would not see favorable to the idea, being so geographically close, but the population density is so high, the need is incredible.

There's a simple answer that's being overlooked as to why Northern New Jersey doesn't have its own affiliates: The networks own the stations in the market and will not permit another station to operate - even as a secondary affiliate, covering the outlying areas. The O&Os don't want to give up any advertising revenue.

WMGM-Atlantic City was in operation long before NBC owned a station in the same market (WCAU-Philly). If NBC could find a way to pull the affiliation from WMGM, I'm sure they would...just so they would have market exclusivity and wouldn't have to share ad revenue from the Atlantic City area.

In Atlantic County - NBC10 fairs a lot better in viewership than WMGM 40, and its more easy to pick up 10 over 40, there, by over the air means. Ch.40 isn't on satellite as well, nor does Comcast carry a HD signal from them. Ch.40's home county is Cape May County (station is licensed to Wildwood, not Atlantic City), but the population is lot smaller.

I've heard that WHAG 25 (NBC) also does poorly in its largest county (Frederick), that it reaches (as compared to the DC NBC station), and WHAG's home county (Washington) has a very small number of TV HH.

Both are really minor stations; the KNTV as an ABC affiliate, was a much larger pain for ABC, than these smaller low budget UHF stations. If I ran WMGM, I'd convert it to an independent, market it like a newschannel for Southern NJ, but buy lot of syndicated programs (mimick WLNY or WZMY) that benefit being over 40 miles from the in-town stations to be able to buy the same syndicated programs from the city. Thus while having its local niche, it's grandfathered low cable positioning in its home area, it can still go must-carry to get into the dense areas of the market. (see, WFMZ/Allentown).

 

[mleach]

I've heard that WHAG 25 (NBC) also does poorly in its largest county (Frederick), that it reaches (as compared to the DC NBC station), and WHAG's home county (Washington) has a very small number of TV HH.

Actually when it comes to viewers WHAG does best in far western Maryland ( Cumberland for example ) where due to the mountains, it is the only game in town when it comes to NBC. They do OK in Washington County/Hagerstown but despite being their home turf, way to many viewers there have a take it/leave it attitude with them.

True, they do poorly in Frederick County, MD. Besides having competition from DC's WRC-TV, they also have to deal with Baltimore's WBAL-TV as well since that channel is also available on cable there plus with Frederick being close to both DC and Baltimore, it is very easy to pick up the signals OTA there too.

The commuter factor plays a role here too. So many people in and around Frederick commute daily to either DC or Baltimore for work, of course the DC and Baltimore stations get more viewers. Makes me wonder why WHAG even bothers.

Dittos with Virginia. WHAG is on a number of systems there. Yet considering that many Hagerstown area businesses do NOT do business in that state, and rare does WHAG travel there to do stories, to me it makes no sense for WHAG to even be on any cable system in Virginia.

OH BTW, just this past week WHAG was added to the DC locals package on Dish Network. This may help them out as afr as getting those viewers in Hagerstown and West Virginia who have Dish Network, but the way their promos say about this, they expect to pick up viewers in DC as well. If WHAG really believes they can compete with WRC NBC 4 in say Fairfax County, VA then WHAG must be smoking those funny cigarettes.

 

[jc]

Biloxi/Gulfport and Hattiesbug/Laurel should and could be merged into one market fairly easily, I think. Currently Biloxi has two affiliates: WLOX-13-ABC (Raycom, formerly Liberty) and WXXV-25-Fox (locally owned, Morris Networks). Depending on which county you are in, CableOne carries both Mobile (Jackson Co.) or New Orleans (Harrison Co.) NBC and CBS affils.

You're forgetting one more affiliate for Biloxi, WMAH-19-PBS (Miss. Public Broadcasting). There's also another affiliate but it serves only Jackson County, which I think is strange instead of serving the entire cost and that is WKFK-7-i-A1-UATV and The Sportsman Channel. It only broadcasts on low power.

Also, depending which county you're in, Cable One carries both Mobile (Jackson Co. ) or New Orleans (Harrison Co.) ABC affiliates.

 

[Tim-In-Houston]

Biloxi/Gulfport and Hattiesbug/Laurel should and could be merged into one market fairly easily, I think. Currently Biloxi has two affiliates: WLOX-13-ABC (Raycom, formerly Liberty) and WXXV-25-Fox (locally owned, Morris Networks). Depending on which county you are in, CableOne carries both Mobile (Jackson Co.) or New Orleans (Harrison Co.) NBC and CBS affils.

You're forgetting one more affiliate for Biloxi, WMAH-19-PBS (Miss. Public Broadcasting). There's also another affiliate but it serves only Jackson County, which I think is strange instead of serving the entire cost and that is WKFK-7-i-A1-UATV and The Sportsman Channel. It only broadcasts on low power.

Also, depending which county you're in, Cable One carries both Mobile (Jackson Co. ) or New Orleans (Harrison Co.) ABC affiliates.

I did forget about the secondary ABC coverage from WEAR/Mobile and WGNO/New Orleans. However, even WMAH could be absorbed into a theoretical Hattiesburg/Laurel/Biloxi market as the next closet MPB-owned station is in Meridian and covers only the northern-half of the Hattiesburg market.

 

[schmave]

Re: In This Region...

> > Lima OH (rolled into Toledo, 60 mi away)
> Lima is 80 miles from Toledo and has 3 major-network
> affiliates (lacks ABC). It won't be eliminated.

Lima's roughly the same distance from Dayton, and both Toledo and Dayton network affiliates show up on the cable system there, not to mention Columbus! In fact, WBNS/10 Columbus is the CBS affiliate on the cable system in Lima. For whatever reason, they haven't added the new local WLMO-LP, the CBS affiliate owned by the people who own FOX 25 and the UPN affiliate, both LPTVers. And both of those stations ARE on the local cable system, along with dominant NBC full-power station WLIO/35.

Still, despite the cable situation, a four network market isn't going anywhere.

> Zanesville OH (combine with Columbus, 55 miles away). Only
> has NBC.

Would have to agree there. All the other network affiliates from Columbus are significantly viewed there, and I think even WCMH/4 (NBC O&O in Columbus) is carried on cable there, below WHIZ.

> Wheeling/Steubenville (combine with Pittsburgh with its
> stations flipping to Fox and WB?). Very unlikely but just a
> thought.

I've kicked this around from time to time. Although it's a very economically depressed market, WTOV and WTRF aren't going away any time soon, and the market won't be folded into Pittsburgh. Besides, if you flip 7 and 9 to WB and move them into Pgh sa FOX and WB, what happens to incumbent FOX 53 and WB 22?

-OA

A few things:
- WHIO/Ch. 7 from Dayton is also available in Lima. For whatever reason, 7 and WBNS/10 from Columbus are two dominant affiliates both carried beyond their DMAs (in 10's case, well beyond, out to Findlay and well into southeastern Ohio far from Columbus).
- The Columbus/Zanesvill issue: Agree somewhat. Channel 4's audio, picture, etc. are far superior to WHIZ. But the way Zanesville identifies itself as a southeastern Ohio hub, as opposed to being part of Columbus and Central Ohio, necessitates that its media concentrates on that area. Having lived in Columbus 24 of my 28 years, it's been my experience that Columbus media covers the city and its area out to Marion, Bellefontaine and Chillicothe, about an hour out. But Zanesville is rarely touched, probably because of WHIZ.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Wow, that's an old message of mine you quoted!

Since then, I believe "CBS Lima" (WLMO-LP 38) has finally made it onto the main local cable system. And Lima's UPN affiliate WLQP-LP 18 - also a part of Greg Phipps' Metro Video - will become an ABC affiliate on September 1st. How that affects whatever ABC affiliate gets imported - I seem to recall seeing WTVG/13 Toledo when I was there - remains to be seen.

-OMW

 

[JeeperOne]

Hi everyone:

But whereas Manchester, NH (being in the Boston DMA) has a secondary market ABC affiliate, I can't see why Newark, NJ or Bridgeport, CT cannot get their own as well. I could see why the NYC station would not see favorable to the idea, being so geographically close, but the population density is so high, the need is incredible.

There's a simple answer that's being overlooked as to why Northern New Jersey doesn't have its own affiliates: The networks own the stations in the market and will not permit another station to operate - even as a secondary affiliate, covering the outlying areas. The O&Os don't want to give up any advertising revenue.

WMGM-Atlantic City was in operation long before NBC owned a station in the same market (WCAU-Philly). If NBC could find a way to pull the affiliation from WMGM, I'm sure they would...just so they would have market exclusivity and wouldn't have to share ad revenue from the Atlantic City area.

WNBC 4 in New York could probably do it though. They were THE FIRST station the NBC network owned and put on the air if I'm not mistaken....

Cheers

 

[JeeperOne]

Hi everyone:

Kevin, I wholeheartedly agree with you that Manchester/Concord should have its own market. NH has a population of more than 1.1 million people and is terribly underserved by every network save ABC. The coverage of Fox in the state is especially poor OTA. Boston channels focus on Boston news first, then Massachusetts, then the rest of New England. It is in this third group that NH is included in Boston newscasts. At the same approximate level of interest as Rhode Island (where Boston affiliates are no longer even on cable - which is a different subject).

This smells to me a lot like New Jersey, except that it's population is almost 9 million residents. Like southwest Connecticut, North Jersey is also underserved by the NYC stations, and South Jersey by those in Philadelphia. The ONLY major network affiliated station licensed in the state is NBC40 all the way down in Atlantic City, for all intents and purposes, rural New Jersey, compared to the northern half of the state.

Demographically, Manchester, New Hampshire is an extension of Metropolitan Boston, just as is Providence, and Worcester. Providence and Rhode Island just happen to be more established, and combined with New Bedford, MA, can better support their own combined market. While Manchester and New Hampshire may be growing, they're not growing any faster than other parts of New England or the nation.

The people of New Hampshire should be happy to have at least one major network affiliated station strictly serving their largest population center (not to mention the independent and PBS stations). Go to New Jersey and their population center has absolutely NO major network affiliated station serving just them. While licensed to Secacus, WWOR has been focusing on and operated out of NYC for years. The PBS stations and NJN don't qualify, neither do the independents or Spanish language stations.

If Manchester, NH (Boston DMA) can have a secondary network affiliate like ABC, then why can't North Jersey or Southwest Connecticut also have their own?! It really is a disgrace and totally unfair to the residents (this is a huge topic on the NYC board). That's why NH should just be happy to get what it's getting. Newark, NJ, New Haven, and Bridgeport, CT should all have their own separate markets before Manchester, New Hampshire.

Do NYC stations not even cover Newark, Elizabeth, all those places just a hop, step, and jump across the Hudson, including one of the major NYC airports? If so, the problem is with them. You don't need a separate North Jersey market, you need smarter NYC stations.

Here in Seattle, the local stations (or at least KING-TV 5) cover a pretty broad area fairly evenly, I think. At least two have non-Seattle areas broken into "bureaus" for, I guess, reporting those areas better or something. They typically cover everything from Olympia to Bellingham (on the I-5 axis) fairly well. How well they cover things on the Olympic peninsula is iffy, but they will cover it. Their coverage tends to go all the way to the Cascade mountains and then stop - they will almost NEVER cover anything east of the Cascades except the weather. Perhaps that's because everything east of the Cascades tends to be in the Yakima or Spokane markets.

Here in Colorado, all the Denver stations (except KMGH 7 AND *maybe* KWGN 2) use the Bureau concept as well. Here's how it all breaks down with the remaining Denver area news operations....

KCNC 4 - Has Northern & Southern Colorado Bureaus. They probably outsource the Western Colorado (Often referred to by all the Denver stations as "Western Slope") Bureau to KQFX 4/KREX 5, but I could be wrong on that.

KUSA 9 (Soon to be KTVD 20 as well) - Has Northern & Western Slope Bureaus (Western Slope Bureau Reporters also do reporting for KKCO 11 Grand Junction, where the Bureau is approximately located). Has NO Southern Colorado Bureau that I'm aware of, but again, I could be wrong on that.

KDVR 31 - Has Western Slope Bureau. Have NO Northern OR Southern Colorado Bureaus (They usually fly their own people in to the scene via helicopter if they don't use either FOX News Bureau Reporter or KXRM reporters). But again, I could be wrong on that (Though in case I doubt it very seriously).

If there are ANY corrections or clarifications to the above, PLEASE POST THEM.

Anyhow....That's the setup here in Denver as I understand and know it.

Cheers

 

[JeeperOne]

Kevin, I wholeheartedly agree with you that Manchester/Concord should have its own market. NH has a population of more than 1.1 million people and is terribly underserved by every network save ABC. The coverage of Fox in the state is especially poor OTA. Boston channels focus on Boston news first, then Massachusetts, then the rest of New England. It is in this third group that NH is included in Boston newscasts. At the same approximate level of interest as Rhode Island (where Boston affiliates are no longer even on cable - which is a different subject).

This smells to me a lot like New Jersey, except that it's population is almost 9 million residents. Like southwest Connecticut, North Jersey is also underserved by the NYC stations, and South Jersey by those in Philadelphia. The ONLY major network affiliated station licensed in the state is NBC40 all the way down in Atlantic City, for all intents and purposes, rural New Jersey, compared to the northern half of the state.

Demographically, Manchester, New Hampshire is an extension of Metropolitan Boston, just as is Providence, and Worcester. Providence and Rhode Island just happen to be more established, and combined with New Bedford, MA, can better support their own combined market. While Manchester and New Hampshire may be growing, they're not growing any faster than other parts of New England or the nation.

The people of New Hampshire should be happy to have at least one major network affiliated station strictly serving their largest population center (not to mention the independent and PBS stations). Go to New Jersey and their population center has absolutely NO major network affiliated station serving just them. While licensed to Secacus, WWOR has been focusing on and operated out of NYC for years. The PBS stations and NJN don't qualify, neither do the independents or Spanish language stations.

If Manchester, NH (Boston DMA) can have a secondary network affiliate like ABC, then why can't North Jersey or Southwest Connecticut also have their own?! It really is a disgrace and totally unfair to the residents (this is a huge topic on the NYC board). That's why NH should just be happy to get what it's getting. Newark, NJ, New Haven, and Bridgeport, CT should all have their own separate markets before Manchester, New Hampshire.

Do NYC stations not even cover Newark, Elizabeth, all those places just a hop, step, and jump across the Hudson, including one of the major NYC airports? If so, the problem is with them. You don't need a separate North Jersey market, you need smarter NYC stations.

Here in Seattle, the local stations (or at least KING-TV 5) cover a pretty broad area fairly evenly, I think. At least two have non-Seattle areas broken into "bureaus" for, I guess, reporting those areas better or something. They typically cover everything from Olympia to Bellingham (on the I-5 axis) fairly well. How well they cover things on the Olympic peninsula is iffy, but they will cover it. Their coverage tends to go all the way to the Cascade mountains and then stop - they will almost NEVER cover anything east of the Cascades except the weather. Perhaps that's because everything east of the Cascades tends to be in the Yakima or Spokane markets.

(There is a case to be made that they still don't go far south enough, however. Coverage of Centralia and Chehalis is iffy, and the market, I think, extends a little further south than that before you hit Portland.)

 

[chuckydoll]

This list is the ones that should be eliminated:

Dothan AL (combined with Panama City, 80 mi away)

Won't happen -- Dothan has its own ABC and Fox stations. Dothan also gets NBC from Montgomery.

Lafayette IN (rolled into Indy, 60 mi away)

Could happen. Lafayette cable carries most (but not all) Indianapolis locals.

Lima OH (rolled into Toledo, 60 mi away)

Could happen but might not. Lima cable carries CBS from Columbus and Dayton plus ABC from Toledo.

Albany GA (combined with Columbus, 70 mi away)

Won't happen due to overlap with WALB-10 and WTVM-9.

Harrisonville VA (combined with Charlottesville, 70 mi away)

That city is Harrisonburg. The Blue Ridge Mountains will keep those 2 markets separate.

Wilimington NC (combined with Myrtle Beach-Florence, 80 mi away)---parts of current service from Raleigh, 150 mi away

Not gonna happen. Wilmington has 4 locals -- ABC, Fox and NBC full-power plus CBS on an LPTV. Florence has 3 locals -- ABC, CBS and Fox full-power -- and gets its NBC from Columbia.

 

[desertv]

KCNC 4 - Has Northern & Southern Colorado Bureaus. They probably outsource the Western Colorado (Often referred to by all the Denver stations as "Western Slope") Bureau to KQFX 4/KREX 5, but I could be wrong on that.

KUSA 9 (Soon to be KTVD 20 as well) - Has Northern & Western Slope Bureaus (Western Slope Bureau Reporters also do reporting for KKCO 11 Grand Junction, where the Bureau is approximately located). Has NO Southern Colorado Bureau that I'm aware of, but again, I could be wrong on that.

KDVR 31 - Has Western Slope Bureau. Have NO Northern OR Southern Colorado Bureaus (They usually fly their own people in to the scene via helicopter if they don't use either FOX News Bureau Reporter or KXRM reporters). But again, I could be wrong on that (Though in case I doubt it very seriously).


Southwest/Southern Colorado is part of the Albuquerque market

 

[Markxxx]

Hell, why not eliminate every market, except NYC, Chicago, and LA. It would be much cheaper and bring great economies of scale and enhace shareholder value.

This is actually a pretty interesting concept. With the advent of PSIP and virtual channels, this would probably be a great cost savings idea.

They could map every CBS to virtual channel 2. Or better yet since TV is reorganizing just take the Hi VHFs and give them to the networks. Then strategically locate a few transmitters with high power and tall towers and make all other TV stations local.

Of course it wouldn't ever happen but when you consider how little community programs (outside of news) what would be the difference to the communities?

 

[JeeperOne]

Hi everyone:

KCNC 4 - Has Northern & Southern Colorado Bureaus. They probably outsource the Western Colorado (Often referred to by all the Denver stations as "Western Slope") Bureau to KQFX 4/KREX 5, but I could be wrong on that.

KUSA 9 (Soon to be KTVD 20 as well) - Has Northern & Western Slope Bureaus (Western Slope Bureau Reporters also do reporting for KKCO 11 Grand Junction, where the Bureau is approximately located). Has NO Southern Colorado Bureau that I'm aware of, but again, I could be wrong on that.

KDVR 31 - Has Western Slope Bureau. Have NO Northern OR Southern Colorado Bureaus (They usually fly their own people in to the scene via helicopter if they don't use either FOX News Bureau Reporter or KXRM reporters). But again, I could be wrong on that (Though in case I doubt it very seriously).


Southwest/Southern Colorado is part of the Albuquerque market

With the exception of Colorado Springs and Pueblo (which is it's own market), yes.

That said though, virtually all of 'em send crews to stories in Southern Colorado south of Pueblo when they occur.

Cheers

 

[Nertz!]

Hell, why not eliminate every market, except NYC, Chicago, and LA. It would be much cheaper and bring great economies of scale and enhace shareholder value.

This is actually a pretty interesting concept. With the advent of PSIP and virtual channels, this would probably be a great cost savings idea.

They could map every CBS to virtual channel 2. Or better yet since TV is reorganizing just take the Hi VHFs and give them to the networks. Then strategically locate a few transmitters with high power and tall towers and make all other TV stations local.

Of course it wouldn\'t ever happen but when you consider how little community programs (outside of news) what would be the difference to the communities?

It does sound like a good idea, and given the quality of most local newscasts it may make things more watchable.

 

[compubit]

IIRC,

Virtual Channel mapping is what Australia is (or at least was planning on) doing. That way, Network 7, 9, and 10 stations would appear on digital 7, 9, and 10 across the country. Plus I believe there is legislation that permits the two license holders who split a third network in a market (say a 7 & 9 station cherry pick 10 Network programs) to open a third "digital only" station jointly to round out the programming. (The Aussie market is very protective of incumbent owners currently...). In few areas where there is overlap, there more powerful station would be displayed - not sure how it would all work technically, though...

Jim