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TV1 - Possible

K

K6JHU

Since the transition to digital, the Channel numbers really don't have any significance any more. So is it possible, and likely, that some station will brand itself "TV1" or "Channel 1 adn start the rush away from ID's like "Fox 23".
 
I'm not so sure.

For those of us on OTA (using converter boxes or digital tuners) the old channel numbers are still the "address" of their respective stations. And for the stations they are still the "brand" identifying the station (since viewers typically don't use the calls for that purpose).
 
K6JHU said:
Since the transition to digital, the Channel numbers really don't have any significance any more. So is it possible, and likely, that some station will brand itself "TV1" or "Channel 1 adn start the rush away from ID's like "Fox 23".
Click to expand...

IIRC, the FCC assigns PSIP channel numbers as well as the physical RF channel, and they specifically prohibit the use of 1.x and 37.x as PSIP channels.
 
Easy. Cable channel. Cable systems can program any channel they want as long as it's open for use

Cheers :D
 
Not so easy. ;D

The station using "1.x" for its virtual channels in the San Francisco market is KAXT-LD, which is a low-power station...and the FCC's been a little less clear about how it intends to handle virtual channels where low-power operations are concerned.

Full-power stations are clearly bound by the ATSC standards that were adopted by the FCC with the force of regulation. If your station was analog channel 8, it will be digital "8.x" unless it falls into a very limited pool of exceptions, which w9wi will be along shortly to explain. :D

But LPTV is a somewhat different creature, and I don't believe the FCC has explicitly bound them to those ATSC virtual-channel standards. For the most part, the FCC seems content to let the marketplace handle things, allowing LPTV stations to set their own virtual channels as long as they don't conflict with anyone else in the market. We'll see if that remains the case once LPTVs are mandated to convert to DTV, likely sometime in 2012.
 
oldiesfan6479 said:
Then how do you explain OTA channel 1.x in the SFO listings on zap2it.com?

http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlist...94128&setMyPreference=false&lineupId=PC:94128

(Using ZIP Code 94128, which is at the airport.)
Click to expand...

Hmmmm..... Apparently, I was wrong about that. I remember a couple of stations in the mid '90s wanting to use Channel 1 for PSIP (IIRC, one was WCIU Chicago) and were told they couldn't. The CDBS entries for both KAXT-LD (RF 42) and KAXT-CA (RF 22) show Channel 1 as their virtual channel.

Are there any others that use 1.x or 37.x? The CDBS page doesn't allow searching by PSIP channel.
 
It's unlikely the FCC would allow it. I know some cable companies have channel 1 but I've never had cable that had a channel 1

I believe Australia used to have a channel 0, which would be more odd.

I know there was some talk of reserving virtual channels in the 70s for networks

So that in every city the CW would be on, say channel 75, as well as it's own channel. That way people wouldn't have to search for their network affiliate when traveling.

So you'd have WGN map to both channel 9 and channel 75 (or whichever)

That never came of anything.
 
KAXT-LD is the only station in the United States with FCC permission to map to channel 1-x.

- Trip
 
Mark said:
I know there was some talk of reserving virtual channels in the 70s for networks

So that in every city the CW would be on, say channel 75, as well as it's own channel. That way people wouldn't have to search for their network affiliate when traveling.

So you'd have WGN map to both channel 9 and channel 75 (or whichever)

That never came of anything.
Click to expand...

I recall TBN also petitioning the FCC to be allowed to put all its stations on a single PSIP -- being 75. The FCC shot them down on that issue.
 
"Are there any others that use 1.x or 37.x? The CDBS page doesn't allow searching by PSIP channel."

In the Vancouver/Portland area, the "medium-ish" powered KWVT multiplex on channel 49 (relay of several Salem-area sub-channels on KPDX's former NTSC site/tower) carries Azteca Oregon on 37-02.
 
azumanga said:
I recall TBN also petitioning the FCC to be allowed to put all its stations on a single PSIP -- being 75. The FCC shot them down on that issue.
Click to expand...

I don't see a reason they couldn't do that *if* they registered that number. As Mark said, there is a provision in the ATSC standard for registering major virtual channels above 69. Tribune and something called "USDTV" were the only two groups I know of to do so. (USDTV was an attempt to provide wireless cable over scrambled subchannels. It failed miserably in the marketplace.)

Basically, the reason for virtual channel rules is to ensure they're unique. It's not a big deal to let WGN use virtual channel 1. If WBBM decides to use virtual channel 1 as well, you have a problem. Depending on the firmware in TV sets, potentially it could make it impossible to receive one or both stations. (in practice, on most receivers if you had two 1.1's, punching in 1.1 would receive the one on the lowest physical frequency; you'd have to hit channel-up to see the other one)

In the analog era, full-power rules were incorporated by reference into the low-power rules. The FCC failed to incorporate *all* of the analog full-power rules. That created the loophole that's allowing the channel-6-LPTV-as-radio-station things.

How many of the full-power *digital* rules have been incorporated into the low-power digital rules, I don't recall offhand.

The FCC can, and does, authorize waivers to the virtual channel rules. In one case, they're *forcing* a station to use a virtual channel different from the one that the standard would require. (the new station on RF-5 in Seaford, Delaware will be required to use virtual channel 36. The standard would have required the station, which never had an analog signal, to use virtual channel 5. But that would conflict with WTTG in Washington, DC, whose coverage area the Seaford station will overlap. WTTG is required to use virtual channel 5.
 
As far as TBNs all going to one number, that could cause a problem, I'd think.

We have a situation here in south Florida that really is a mess....WGEN, which runs a few LPTV stations + an authorized full-power TV station in Key West (although they run flea power), has *four* digital LP stations in south FL, apparently covering four different small areas. Three of them use virtual 24....all show up on my TV. Having three subchannels each, that means I have twelve "24"s (three 24-1's, three 24-2's etc.) And if that's not enough, two of the subs are only color bars!

And BTW the other one (DT45, virtual 8 ) currently has no audio and no subs!

Test on this to come.....

cd
 
azumanga said:
Mark said:
I know there was some talk of reserving virtual channels in the 70s for networks

So that in every city the CW would be on, say channel 75, as well as it's own channel. That way people wouldn't have to search for their network affiliate when traveling.

So you'd have WGN map to both channel 9 and channel 75 (or whichever)

That never came of anything.
Click to expand...

I recall TBN also petitioning the FCC to be allowed to put all its stations on a single PSIP -- being 75. The FCC shot them down on that issue.
Click to expand...

Except it wasn't TBN that wanted 75; it was Tribune Broadcasting. No reason was ever given for denying it.

The closest anyone came to doing such a thing was short-lived US Digital TV, who was able to reserve channel 99 for their offerings. I can only speculate that channels 70-99 were meant for OTA operations by entities that didn't have TV channels of their own, such as US Digital TV.
 
dhett said:
Except it wasn't TBN that wanted 75; it was Tribune Broadcasting. No reason was ever given for denying it.

The closest anyone came to doing such a thing was short-lived US Digital TV, who was able to reserve channel 99 for their offerings. I can only speculate that channels 70-99 were meant for OTA operations by entities that didn't have TV channels of their own, such as US Digital TV.
Click to expand...

Can't prove it right now but I'm almost certain Tribune did register channel 75. To my knowledge they never implemented it. They and USDTV were the only entities to ever register anything above 70.
 
They were at one point, but stopped doing so a while ago.

- Trip
 
Yeah, even the low-power KEVE (translator of KBLN in Grant's Pass) identifies as 36-01--36 is also its physical channel. No 73-0x here.
 
Note: The KAXT case was the result of an overlap situation involving KRCB RF 23, the PBS affiliate in the North Bay. KAXT had to move. Not sure why 23 was not available (the next logical step), but I have a feeling it relates to KAEF-23 (a KRCR full-power repeater in Eureka) or something similar.
 
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