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Two Channel 10s?

Y2kTheNewOldies said:
Where are the counties that are split in half for either Boston or Providence tv markets? I don't see any confusion here and also there are no cities that happen to land on the border of two or more TV markets.
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Sadly there no split counties here for television DMA purposes. In New England, nobody associates themselves with counties. The city/town boundaries are what really matter.

This isn't the only area of the country where the "center" of two television DMAs are close to each other. You also have Springfield MA and Hartford CT, as well as Baltimore and Washington DC. But in the Springfield/Hartford case you have the state line serving as the boundary, ensuring pay-TV subscribers get the local in-state stations. In the Baltimore/Washington case the dividing line is roughly halfway between the two cities. But in the Boston/Providence case you have a good chunk of Massachusetts that is within a 30-mile radius of Boston that is considered "out of market" when this "discrimination" when you've got several other cities and towns at least 50 miles from Boston that are still considered "in-market".

Nobody in Easton associates with Rhode Island. It is much easier to travel to Boston from Easton with Route 24 very close by, whereas if you wanted to go to Providence you have to navigate a series of back roads to get to I-95. This is a prime example of a town being in the "wrong" (and out of state) DMA. It would make sense to have the Bristol County cities and towns along I-495 (and maybe I-95) moved to the Boston market, while keeping the southern part of the county in the Providence market.
 
Y2kTheNewOldies said:
True to the point here its just I try to comprehend how it is specifically in that part of New England and the viewing habits there how it sparked the "confusion" of the Channel 10's WBTS and WJAR. I tried to look for places where some of the "borders of TV Markets" used to be sparsely populated at the time when the DMA maps were drawn but could not prove that here.
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If I had to guess, I'd say that viewers in that area just shrug their shoulders and say "yeah, that's that channel 10 from Boston" (or Providence as the case may be). And WBTS airing on PSIP channel 15.1 probably helps to allay some of the potential confusion.

I have to wonder if any cable systems carry both WJAR and WBTS. I'd say probably not.
 
IM42A said:
I have to wonder if any cable systems carry both WJAR and WBTS. I'd say probably not.
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Comcast/Xfinity carries both NBCs on Cape Cod, Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket, and a good portion of both Norfolk and Plymouth counties. Charter/Spectrum carries both stations in southern Worcester county, and even in the city of Worcester itself! But WBTS gets to be on cable channel 10 while WJAR is exiled to cable channel 90-something.
 
Why Channel 10? Because when Comcast/NBC decided to start a Boston affiliate, they wanted a desirable, low cable channel number close to the other network affiliates in the city. But all the low channel numbers were taken. That included Comcast-owned New England Cable News, which was on cable channel 10 on many systems. So they grabbed 10 for the new NBC affiliate and moved NECN to a higher channel on those systems.

NBC originally branded the affiliate as “NBC Boston” with no channel number. But apparently some viewers were having trouble finding it, so it was rebranded “NBC 10 Boston” about a year after it was launched.
 
kramie13 said:
In the Baltimore/Washington case the dividing line is roughly halfway between the two cities.
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The line consists of Frederick, Montgomery, Prince George's (colloquially known as PG), and Calvert counties on the Washington side, and Carroll, Howard, and Anne Arundel counties on the Baltimore side. That basically makes sense, and more or less obeys commuting patterns (at least broadly speaking) and the cities with which residents more closely identify.
 
I still think that Bristol County MA should be moved out of Providence DMA to Boston. Like I said prior, I live in MA and pay taxes in MA therefore my primary cable service should be Boston NOT Providence. We need our 2 US Senators in MA Warren & Markey (who happens to be on the telecommunications committee) to petition the FCC to change the DMA. With the FCC in Republican hands this would be a difficult task....
 
mnw1890 said:
I still think that Bristol County MA should be moved out of Providence DMA to Boston. Like I said prior, I live in MA and pay taxes in MA therefore my primary cable service should be Boston NOT Providence. We need our 2 US Senators in MA Warren & Markey (who happens to be on the telecommunications committee) to petition the FCC to change the DMA. With the FCC in Republican hands this would be a difficult task....
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I have family and roots in New Bedford, Mass. I love the city dearly, even if it has its faults. I dearly agree. Time to get the county in the Boston market. If the Cape and Islands are already in the Boston market, then so should Bristol County.
 
kramie13 said:
Sadly there no split counties here for television DMA purposes. In New England, nobody associates themselves with counties. The city/town boundaries are what really matter.

This isn't the only area of the country where the "center" of two television DMAs are close to each other. You also have Springfield MA and Hartford CT, as well as Baltimore and Washington DC. But in the Springfield/Hartford case you have the state line serving as the boundary, ensuring pay-TV subscribers get the local in-state stations. In the Baltimore/Washington case the dividing line is roughly halfway between the two cities. But in the Boston/Providence case you have a good chunk of Massachusetts that is within a 30-mile radius of Boston that is considered "out of market" when this "discrimination" when you've got several other cities and towns at least 50 miles from Boston that are still considered "in-market".
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There's New Jersey where the State is split in Two TV Markets like New York City and Philadelphia. Somewhere in Central NJ is where the lines are drawn as the halfway point for the two TV markets. However there are TV stations in New Jersey that have Newark like WNET-TV and Seacaucus like WWOR-TV as its COL's but its offices and transmitters are in New York City.


I doubt congress is interested in gerrymandering TV markets its a non-starter about making Bristol County, MA in Boston TV Market. Some of the arguments revolve around Providences TV transmitters located in the New Bedford area. But that would require Bristol County to be split in in two TV markets if one wants to push that hard to have part of that county in the Boston TV market.
 
Y2kTheNewOldies said:
I doubt congress is interested in gerrymandering TV markets its a non-starter about making Bristol County, MA in Boston TV Market. Some of the arguments revolve around Providences TV transmitters located in the New Bedford area. But that would require Bristol County to be split in in two TV markets if one wants to push that hard to have part of that county in the Boston TV market.
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This raises the question of whether a station absolutely has to have its transmitter located within a market's boundaries, to be considered one of that market's stations. KNTV San Jose was the ABC affiliate for the Salinas-Monterey market (the actual affiliate, not a default or "infill" affiliate), and its transmitter was just barely within the San Francisco market (Loma Prieta), coordinates 37°06'40.0"N 121°50'34.0"W. Its studios were in San Jose (645 Park Avenue).

So by the same reasoning, I'm assuming that WLNE and WJAR could still be considered as Providence-market stations (though this would pertain only to the transmitter, not the studios which are indeed in Providence), even if the DMA boundaries were redrawn to put Bristol County in the Boston market.
 
The Boston DMA became complicated when cable and, especially, satellite providers entered the scene.

I can't think of any other DMA in the US being this complicated, with the exception of DC/Balto.NYC/Philly, the dividing line is considered to be Princeton, NJ

Before cable came along, Worcester County viewers seemed to prefer Providence over Boston, as both 10 and 12 would cover the Blackstone Valley.
 
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Fenway1912 said:
The Boston DMA became complicated when cable and, especially, satellite providers entered the scene.

I can't think of any other DMA in the US being this complicated, with the exception of DC/Balto.NYC/Philly, the dividing line is considered to be Princeton, NJ

Before cable came along, Worcester County viewers seemed to prefer Providence over Boston, as both 10 and 12 would cover the Blackstone Valley.
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Cincinnati/Dayton is another such case. The dividing line between the two cities (just north of Hamilton and Middletown) is not very far from either one. The Dayton market actually extends further north than you would expect, as you are getting away from Cincinnati at that point. If Cincinnati did not exist, the Dayton market would likely extend down into northern Kentucky, at least the three counties at the tip (Boone/Kenton/Campbell).
 
Riverside County, California is split in two TV Markets, Riverside-W and Riverside-E is in the Los Angeles TV Market while Riverside-C is in the Palm Springs TV Market.

However in Palm Springs case their PBS affiliate is coming from the Los Angeles TV Market.

Another one is Kern-E is in the Los Angeles TV Market and Kern-W is in the Bakersfield TV Market.

But back to New England the Providence and Boston I see the point that Rhode Island and Massachusetts residents assumed that the state line is the area where one can separate the Boston and Providence TV Markets. But the Transmitters for the Providence TV stations are in New Bedford, MA. It was meant to prevent short spacing with Boston, Springfield, and New Haven tv markets back in the Analog era and how signals were allocated back then.
 
kramie13 said:
Sadly there no split counties here for television DMA purposes. In New England, nobody associates themselves with counties. The city/town boundaries are what really matter.
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Actually there kind of is. Easton, in Bristol County, is the lone town in B.C. that is in the Boston DMA not Providence.

Y2kTheNewOldies said:
But the Transmitters for the Providence TV stations are in New Bedford, MA. It was meant to prevent short spacing with Boston, Springfield, and New Haven tv markets back in the Analog era and how signals were allocated back then.
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The transmitters for the Providence TV stations are in Rehoboth. Have been since 1948. (For WJAR) and 1961 (for WPRI). Even the New Bedford licensed WLNE-TV was in Tiverton, RI due to the short spacing issues with WRGB and WCSH. None of the Providence stations were short spaced to anyone, except for WLNE-TV, after changing from 11 to 10, and 13 to 12. (Although I can't find any evidence, other than old directories that WPRI actually transmitted on VHF 13 from Johnston). When WTEN in Albany, NY went from UHF 41 to VHF 10, it was short to WJAR, and they had to employ a directional antenna from the Heldebergs to limit the signal towards Providence, which wasn't really detrimental to them as they had WCDC on Mt Greylock. WLNE in the 70's tried to build a 1000' tower on a piece of land in Rehoboth off of Anawan St., but never followed through with it, due to the town rejecting it. Eventually with DTV, none of that mattered, and WLNE relocated to WJAR's tower on UHF 49.
 
necrat said:
Actually there kind of is. Easton, in Bristol County, is the lone town in B.C. that is in the Boston DMA not Providence.
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When did this happen? The Comcast/Xfinity channel lineup for Easton still only carries WJAR for NBC and carries only SD signals for WFXT and WLVI, just like the rest of Bristol County MA.

The "new" ABC station for Providence (10.2 over the air) also varies based on the city/town you're in. Easton has it on cable channel 17, but neighboring Norton has it on channel 21. I don't think anyone will care since WCVB is on the system on cable channel 5.

Oddly enough, some parts of Cape Cod have WJAR 10.2 on cable channel 6, it's getting a better dial spot out of market!
 
kramie13 said:
When did this happen?
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As near as I can tell from searching FCC records, in 2002. That was when WWDP in Norwell successfully got the FCC to put them on the Full Channel TV lineup for Barrington, Bristol Township, Warren and unincorporated areas of Bristol County.


That opened the floodgates, apparently, because by the end of 2020 WCVB was being replaced on Xfinity by WLNE.
 
K.M. Richards said:
As near as I can tell from searching FCC records, in 2002. That was when WWDP in Norwell successfully got the FCC to put them on the Full Channel TV lineup for Barrington, Bristol Township, Warren and unincorporated areas of Bristol County.


That opened the floodgates, apparently, because by the end of 2020 WCVB was being replaced on Xfinity by WLNE.
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Okay, everyone, now I'm totally confused. I thought all along that we were talking about a sliver of Bristol County, Massachusetts.

Am I correct in understanding that a portion of Bristol County, Rhode Island was assigned to the Boston DMA? That a small island was created within the Providence DMA?

That is really bizarre.
 
Not being familiar with the geography, I only know what I read in the files.
 
IM42A said:
Okay, everyone, now I'm totally confused. I thought all along that we were talking about a sliver of Bristol County, Massachusetts.

Am I correct in understanding that a portion of Bristol County, Rhode Island was assigned to the Boston DMA? That a small island was created within the Providence DMA?

That is really bizarre.
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I think they mean Bristol County, Massachusetts. That county hugs the border of Rhode Island and includes the city of New Bedford. Note that Providence's CBS affiliate is Channel 6 WLNE, licensed to New Bedford but sharing studios with WJAR in Rehoboth RI.
 


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