I suspect it may have been phoned in like in the days before electronic filing, or possibly paper filed during the shut down, as CDBS was down. So it's probably lost in the paper shuffle. Or perhaps they put up a temporary antenna at the licensed site, as it has just surfaced that the land is for lease. I suspect whatever sale was pending somehow fell through. It must have been condition of sale that the parcel be vacant. What a mess.
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Unconfirmed report silent WDTW (AM 1310) heard testing
- Thread starter 1L6E6VHF
- Start date
Now (9:40 PM EDT, 10/23), that website explicitly states it IS WDTW, and they're asking half a million for nothing more than the license.
(I may note that since the transfer of license to MMTC still has not gone through, and the description of WDTW and its demise are public knowledge, that I have no way of knowing of the advertisement is legitimate)
I don't get it. Towers deconstructed, but the land they stood on is available for lease? Were the sticks at the end of their economic life? Was the land sold, and the new owner wants to sign a long term lease? If the xmttr was good, why didn't Clear Channel ship it off to another of their stations? What was the point of blowing up the whole damn thing and then trying to sell it for a half mil? This is so bizarre it belongs on Craig's List!
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One rumor I heard when it was going off the air was that the ground system was near the end of its economic life.
Two other possibilities (PURE SPECULATION):
1) They wanted the land (directly adjoining I-94) for a bunch of outdoor advertising billboards, but could not get the local permits to build them.
2) They had contracts to carry the progressive talk shows for an x number of years, that could only be broken if the station left the air. (I don't know if such contracts exist in radio, but I do know that some contracts between TV stations and TV networks are broken if the station is sold).
Two other possibilities (PURE SPECULATION):
1) They wanted the land (directly adjoining I-94) for a bunch of outdoor advertising billboards, but could not get the local permits to build them.
2) They had contracts to carry the progressive talk shows for an x number of years, that could only be broken if the station left the air. (I don't know if such contracts exist in radio, but I do know that some contracts between TV stations and TV networks are broken if the station is sold).
Okay. Converting it to Billboard use requires a zoning change. That is getting harder and harder, especially if you're putting up digital boards.
If those towers were of the tubular type, common for a station of that age, then, they were toast. I had to replace some of those hollow towers a couple of years ago from a 1950's build. I have a client in Fort Wayne that is in the same boat on a late 60's build.
The station is no longer owned by CC. They donated it to the Minority Media deal. BTW, i was in an auction for a station, conducted by those clowns. I was high bidder, they decided that the price was too cheap (even thought it was an absolute auction). Then, i won it again on the second official auction. They started the paperwork and decided to not do the deal.
Finally, the station has fallen apart and is dark. CC owns the site and they are no longer collecting rent. The fool that ended up with the station got it for half of what i bid and with terms. He defaulted.
If those towers were of the tubular type, common for a station of that age, then, they were toast. I had to replace some of those hollow towers a couple of years ago from a 1950's build. I have a client in Fort Wayne that is in the same boat on a late 60's build.
The station is no longer owned by CC. They donated it to the Minority Media deal. BTW, i was in an auction for a station, conducted by those clowns. I was high bidder, they decided that the price was too cheap (even thought it was an absolute auction). Then, i won it again on the second official auction. They started the paperwork and decided to not do the deal.
Finally, the station has fallen apart and is dark. CC owns the site and they are no longer collecting rent. The fool that ended up with the station got it for half of what i bid and with terms. He defaulted.
Ouch! Were the last two paragraphs in reference to the Fort Wayne station or WDTW?
It reads like they had already decided who would get the license and the "auction" was just a formality, a cover story. Perhaps you should have a company with a deceptive name (one that would have the seller believing you won't use the station in a competitive way) to bid for you next time.
WDTW's array had four types of towers (!), all of the same height. The Northeastern tower was thick (I suspect it was built for use as a daytimer on 1540, pre-CBE), the SE tower not so thick, both central towers a little thinner yet (I suspect this was for the move to 1310 with Class III operation at 1kW DA-N), and, finally, both western towers quite slender indeed (likely installed for the upgrade to 5 kW DA-2).
One more note - I've been looking for whatever defines a "tubular tower", and if that literally means a tall standing one-piece tube, WDTW did not have any, they were all lattice (IIRC, the eastern two had "X" braces and the other four had straight braces).
If the steel forming the lattice was, itself, steel tubes, rather that rods of soild steel, I would not know.
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Still nothing on the FCC database about KDTW having an STA to resume broadcasting from another tower site.
Any other updates on the KDTW situation?
The reference to the mess with CC and MMTC? That was upstate NY. Near Albany. Pitiful. Actually, they didn't have anyone predetermined to win. They were just sure that the station (560, 1KW) was worth a quarter of a million. It wasn't. My final bid was 105 and i was top bidder. Years later, they ended up getting MAYBE 75 or so with terms. The buyer defaulted.
Tubular refers to the construction of the frame and cross members. All hollow steel rather than solid. Think of a cheap bicycle frame. Some of these towers had weep holes for condensation. They rusted from the inside out.
It looks like WKMH/WKNR/.../WDTW was built in stages. Stage 1 was 1540 with 1 kW nondirectional. Stage 2 was 1310 with 1 kW nondirectional. Stage 3 was probably 1310 with 5000 day and 1000 night, 2 towers day and 4 towers night. Stage 4 added the westernmost towers, with 5000 fulltime, 2 towers day and 6 towers night. It takes a lot of time on americanradiohistory.com to figure this out.
Thanks for that. Makes sense.
I think Carl Smith designed the early array, known for WGAR 1220 and WTVN 610, and other early complex arrays.
The other thing that was responsible for different types of towers was that a tornado went through the area around 1980 and severely damaged some of the towers, which were replaced.
The other thing that was responsible for different types of towers was that a tornado went through the area around 1980 and severely damaged some of the towers, which were replaced.
Is The MINORITY MEDIA AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS COUNCIL's MMTC BROADCASTING LLC selling the WDTW license and
transmitter? Clear Channel donated WDTW to MMTC BROADCASTING LLC.
That's what I understand. Good luck on that rebuild, as everything will have to be done to current FCC regs...no grandfathering the technical faux pas of Keener years gone by. How 'bout a non-D running at 25% of licensed power? Sounds simple and may be easier to get thru than a multi-tower array. And that old night pattern sucked the big one!
Actually, the array is still licensed and could be rebuilt as it was. It would be the same as if someone vandalized the array and cut the towers down. It's not as "jammed in" as some have suggested. The thing that always makes it seem like the case are changes in FCC rules. Moving it somewhere else is possible but more complicated. Under old rules, it would have been easy to relocate it. The day pattern is not that restrictive. The night pattern could be designed asymmetrically like WXYT, WWJ, WFDF, WMVP, and WYLL have been done in the region, with shallower nulls where permitted, and deeper nulls where necessary. Under newer present rules, they would have to pull in 10% at night toward WCCW and any other stations where they were a major interference contributor. That might require a reduction to 4 kW night depending on how complex an array you wanted to design. Nondirectional at night except on STA is not an option. Night power would only be about 20 watts. There are a lot of stations who have done this, but from a technical station value standpoint it is inadvisable in most cases.
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Umm.... I think that is what i was saying on my previous posts....
Again, what was the point of tearing down the sticks and putting the land up for sale? Any copper left in the ground? (hee-hee) So if the site is available, why not put up one of those Valcom 75' sticks and go for an STA at 1.25kw? Heck, that stick could be bolted to a trailer bed and parked in an open field just about anywhere. Voila - back on the air in no time!
If CC (who still owns the station, per FCC A/O 11/2/13) actually wanted the station on the air, they have a simpler way to do it. Just use two towers of the WDFN array (any two from whichever horizontal line of towers has neither T1 nor T2 of their two-tower daytime array), without diplexing, for daytime-only operation (or better yet, four towers, possible if the daytime array of WDFN were not to use the towers in its central column). They could use a lot of power doing this, since the WDFN array is 25 miles from WEXL's.
Nighttime operation is another matter. Building a complex array for a meager return. My thoughts return to the Ecorse site WAAM had planned to use in its aborted effort to move from Ann Arbor to the Detroit area (Oak Park COL). A 4-tower array might do it. Each pair of towers would line up with the path to WIBA with a zero null in their direction, the south pair (each tower of which would be a little more than 1/4 wave SSW of its neighbor to the NNE, perhaps slightly shorter than the north pair towers) would protect the multitude of stations south of the 41st parallel (particularly WTLC). Since the beam would be more of an NNE beam than the old one, WCCW, with its high NIF, would not be too hard to protect. In this day of computer-modeled arrays, the array would not be a perfect parallelogram.
The daytime array, using the same four towers, would have a relatively soft pattern, with the more powerful lobe actually to the SSW (the NNE minor lobe would still be powerful, its limit set by placing the 25 mV/m contour inches from WEXL's), well over 10kW (possibly the full 50 - don't know how much they could run without clipping WTLC's daytime - not that they would want the expense of about 80kW of electric service, about 5,000 hours a year). Daytime coverage would be great, far better in Macomb and eastern Wayne than the old array, and a strong signal even to Toledo. One can imagine a recording played before the sunset pattern change, asking listeners to go the webstream.
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E
Eric B
Guest
I was the one who reported WDTW-1310 on the air that day. Following are some further details which convinced me that it was, in fact, WDTW that I'd heard.
First, the signal was pretty strong, and it was midday at the time I'd first noted it. Between records (Classic rock,) I'd heard a mention of The D. Finally, on the hour, the ID was given as "WDTW-FM Detroit and WDTW-AM Dearborn." Having said that, I am more than convinced that I'd heard WDTW-1310 that day.
I had first noted it while doing a bandscan at a park near Flat Rock; then when I got home I fired up the AM rig. The signal seemed best with the receiver aimed at the licensed location.
About a week ago, I passed the licensed location on I-94. While I could only take quick glances toward the site, it did look as if the tuning shack was still standing on the northeast part of the lot. So, I would think that it could be possible to string a longwire from that site. Why they were on that day, I am not certain, but I do know that I'd heard them, and the signal quality as well as the ID on the hour clinched it.
Finally, they were off the air again by the next morning. And on a check of 106.7 the next morning, the ID on the hour made no mention of the AM station.
Hope this clears a few things up about my catch!
--Eric B, Carleton, MI
First, the signal was pretty strong, and it was midday at the time I'd first noted it. Between records (Classic rock,) I'd heard a mention of The D. Finally, on the hour, the ID was given as "WDTW-FM Detroit and WDTW-AM Dearborn." Having said that, I am more than convinced that I'd heard WDTW-1310 that day.
I had first noted it while doing a bandscan at a park near Flat Rock; then when I got home I fired up the AM rig. The signal seemed best with the receiver aimed at the licensed location.
About a week ago, I passed the licensed location on I-94. While I could only take quick glances toward the site, it did look as if the tuning shack was still standing on the northeast part of the lot. So, I would think that it could be possible to string a longwire from that site. Why they were on that day, I am not certain, but I do know that I'd heard them, and the signal quality as well as the ID on the hour clinched it.
Finally, they were off the air again by the next morning. And on a check of 106.7 the next morning, the ID on the hour made no mention of the AM station.
Hope this clears a few things up about my catch!
--Eric B, Carleton, MI
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